MythTV/Comcast going all digital TV in Cambridge [OT]

[Bill Bogstad]

FYI,

I just got a letter from Comcast informing me that on October 20th
they will be switching all of their Expanded Basic channels to digital
format. The letter says nothing about QAM (clear or otherwise).  It
says something about "digital equipment" and if you don't already have
it you will need to do something.  They will provide up to two digital
adapters at no charge.  I'm trying to find out if anything will be
clear QAM, but I expect that will take lots of work
with Comcast to find out.

Bill Bogstad

P.S. I'm in North Cambridge, but I assume this will be happing in
other parts of the Boston metro area as well.
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[Richard Pieri]

Comcrap has already done this conversion in most of MA.

Last I knew, if you could get the channel over the air then federal  
regulations require that cable providers must provide the same channel  
unencrypted.  Digital means QAM so ClearQAM has to be in there  
somewhere.  You may need to ask Comcast to disable encryption.  If you  
do, don't ask for basic channels.  Try to get it disabled on your  
whole package, and failing that all of the non-premium channels.

--Rich P.

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[Bill Bogstad]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Richard Pieri<richard.pieri@...> wrote:
> Comcrap has already done this conversion in most of MA.

I knew they had done this in other states, but wasn't aware this was
the case in MA yet.  Do you know of any site that lists where this has
happened?

> Last I knew, if you could get the channel over the air then federal
> regulations require that cable providers must provide the same channel
> unencrypted.  Digital means QAM so ClearQAM has to be in there
> somewhere.  You may need to ask Comcast to disable encryption.  If you
> do, don't ask for basic channels.  Try to get it disabled on your
> whole package, and failing that all of the non-premium channels.

I get something like 70 channels via Comcast as NTSC analog at the
moment.   Most of those channels are not currently sent as clear
(unencrypted QAM).   The few  that are consist of either
over the air or shopping channels.  If the number of clear QAM
channels doesn't change, I'll lose the ability to view/record ESPN,
SciFi, and similar cable channels without a Comcast box.

BTW, I don't quite understand what you mean about disabling
encryption.  There is no way they
can turn off QAM encryption just for me.  This would have to be for
everyone in my neighborhood.
If you mean something about HDCP (HDMI encryption) that presumes I'm
using one of their cable boxes to view their offerings.  This is the
exact opposite of what I want.  I want to use my own equipment (either
QAM capable TV or computer tuner (MythTV)).   I suppose I could use a
cable-card ready TV (hard to find).  Then there are those mythical
cable-card ready set top boxes for consumers that the FCC rules were
supposed to facilitate...

Bill Bogstad

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[crschmidt]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:55:16PM -0400, Bill Bogstad wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Richard Pieri<richard.pieri@...> wrote:
> > Comcrap has already done this conversion in most of MA.
>
> I knew they had done this in other states, but wasn't aware this was
> the case in MA yet.  Do you know of any site that lists where this has
> happened?
>
> > Last I knew, if you could get the channel over the air then federal
> > regulations require that cable providers must provide the same channel
> > unencrypted.  Digital means QAM so ClearQAM has to be in there
> > somewhere.  You may need to ask Comcast to disable encryption.  If you
> > do, don't ask for basic channels.  Try to get it disabled on your
> > whole package, and failing that all of the non-premium channels.
>
> I get something like 70 channels via Comcast as NTSC analog at the
> moment.   Most of those channels are not currently sent as clear
> (unencrypted QAM).   The few  that are consist of either
> over the air or shopping channels.  If the number of clear QAM
> channels doesn't change, I'll lose the ability to view/record ESPN,
> SciFi, and similar cable channels without a Comcast box.

When I was playing with a hand-me-down TiVo back in August, I flipped
through about 2 dozen channels on my Cambridgeport cable box with the
cable hooked directly into the TiVo (skipping the cable box). ALl of
them said "As of July, Comcast is no longer providing these channels in
analog in your neighborhood. Hook up to you cable box. Call 1-800
COMCAST for a cable box."

Others in Cambridgeport have confirmed similar situations: that is, that
they no longer got any/many channels in analog form.

Perhaps this is a neighborhood by neighborhood thing, or there were
channels that I missed that are different. I scrolled from about 30 to
about 50 and didn't find anything that was broadcasting anything other
than the Comcast message in analog.

I assume that the major channels like Fox, ABC, NBC, etc. were still in
analog until the February deadline, but didn't bother to check.

Note that this is digital vs. non-digital, ont encypted vs.
non-encrypted; I don't know anything about encryption, just whether
plugging the cable line into my non-digital TV got me TV channels.
("No.", as of July 2k8, according to the Comcast message.)

Regards,
--
Christopher Schmidt
MetaCarta
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[Bill Bogstad]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Christopher
Schmidt<crschmidt@...> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:55:16PM -0400, Bill Bogstad wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Richard Pieri<richard.pieri@...> wrote:
>> > Comcrap has already done this conversion in most of MA.
>>
Christoper wrote:
>
> When I was playing with a hand-me-down TiVo back in August, I flipped
> through about 2 dozen channels on my Cambridgeport cable box with the
> cable hooked directly into the TiVo (skipping the cable box). ALl of
> them said "As of July, Comcast is no longer providing these channels in
> analog in your neighborhood. Hook up to you cable box. Call 1-800
> COMCAST for a cable box."

So Cambridgeport has been all digital for almost a year now?  I had no
idea it had gotten
that close to me.  I guess I really need to finish investigating clear
QAM, firewire, or IR blasting.

Bill Bogstad
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[Jerry Feldman-2]

I have not received this notice yet. We have 2 analog TVs in the house,
and I'd possibly buy a small digital TV with a cablecard (supplied by
Comcast) for 1 of them, or possibly get their settop box. The second TV
does not matter.

Most other cable companies have done the exact same thing. The issue for
them is that they currently must send analog, digital, and HD signals on
the same wire. As more channels go HD that may be a technical problem.
The cost on their side is to provide free settop boxes.

On 06/29/2009 01:32 PM, Bill Bogstad wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Christopher
> Schmidt<crschmidt@...> wrote:
>  
>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:55:16PM -0400, Bill Bogstad wrote:
>>    
>>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Richard Pieri<richard.pieri@...> wrote:
>>>      
>>>> Comcrap has already done this conversion in most of MA.
>>>>        

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846



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[Richard Pieri]

On Jun 29, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Bill Bogstad wrote:
> I knew they had done this in other states, but wasn't aware this was
> the case in MA yet.  Do you know of any site that lists where this has
> happened?

I don't.  The conversion did start some 2-3 years ago or so.  That's  
when Comcast started converting the towns on the South Shore  
(Holbrook, Braintree, Randolph, etc.).

> BTW, I don't quite understand what you mean about disabling
> encryption.  There is no way they
> can turn off QAM encryption just for me.  This would have to be for
> everyone in my neighborhood.

Probably, yes.  That's the nature of cable networks.  But like I said,  
Comcast is required by federal regulations to provide unencrypted  
channels if you could get those channels over the air.  They have to  
give it to you if you ask.

This isn't HDCP.  This is the signal on the wire from the central  
office to your receiver.

--Rich P.

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[Bill Bogstad]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Richard Pieri <richard.pieri@...>wrote:

> On Jun 29, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Bill Bogstad wrote:
>
>
> Probably, yes.  That's the nature of cable networks.  But like I said,
> Comcast is required by federal regulations to provide unencrypted
> channels if you could get those channels over the air.  They have to
> give it to you if you ask.
>
> This isn't HDCP.  This is the signal on the wire from the central
> office to your receiver.
>

Got it now.  They do provide the over the air as clear QAM to me now.   They
currently provide me about 45 channels as analog
that are not over the air.  Reading between the lines, these channels will
probably go encrypted QAM for me in October.

Bill Bogstad
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[Shankar Viswanathan]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Bill Bogstad<bogstad@...> wrote:
>
> Got it now.  They do provide the over the air as clear QAM to me now.   They
> currently provide me about 45 channels as analog
> that are not over the air.  Reading between the lines, these channels will
> probably go encrypted QAM for me in October.

This is exactly what RCN did -- they switched to all digital (called
the "analog crush") and encrypted all the non-broadcast channels. I
requested them to provide the "basic cable" channels as ClearQAM but
the guy on the phone did not know (or pretended not to know) the
difference between "digital" and "encrypted digital" and kept saying
that the FCC mandated this. Arguing with him was futile and a later
call to a different support person didn't go any better.

As a result, both my NTSC analog capture card and the QAM tuner in my
TV are useless. The basic converter box that they provided for free
doesn't have anything except an IR receiver (no serial, no USB, no
IEEE1394), and I haven't found the time to setup an IR blaster for my
mythtv yet.

-Shankar

PS: As a side note, those cable converter boxes run ridiculously hot.
My neighbour measured the power using his kill-a-watt meter and found
no difference whether it was on or off! Apparently, it only kills the
output audio & video if it's switched off using the remote (but still
left plugged in to the wall).

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[Dan Ritter-2]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 03:47:12PM -0400, Shankar Viswanathan wrote:
> This is exactly what RCN did -- they switched to all digital (called
> the "analog crush") and encrypted all the non-broadcast channels. I
> requested them to provide the "basic cable" channels as ClearQAM but
> the guy on the phone did not know (or pretended not to know) the
> difference between "digital" and "encrypted digital" and kept saying
> that the FCC mandated this. Arguing with him was futile and a later
> call to a different support person didn't go any better.

They send out about 15 channels in clear QAM...

> As a result, both my NTSC analog capture card and the QAM tuner in my
> TV are useless. The basic converter box that they provided for free
> doesn't have anything except an IR receiver (no serial, no USB, no
> IEEE1394), and I haven't found the time to setup an IR blaster for my
> mythtv yet.

...and if you ask them for a FireWire-equipped STB, they will
get you one, which will send all the channels you pay for to you
and your MythTV or whatever.

I'm having immense difficulties getting *two* FW STBs to work,
though.

-dsr-
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[Tom Metro-16]

Jerry Feldman wrote:
> Most other cable companies have done the exact same thing. The issue for
> them is that they currently must send analog, digital, and HD signals on
> the same wire. As more channels go HD that may be a technical problem.
> The cost on their side is to provide free settop boxes.

True that the conversion to digital does expand the channel capacity
(especially given the way cable companies apparently over compress the
signal), but that's no argument for using encrypted QAM.

The decision to use head-end encryption with decryption occurring at the
set-top-box is one of choice, and not a technical requirement. Consider,
for example, fiber-based services, like FIOS, which use a device mounted
on the customer premises (an ONT - optical network terminal[1]) to
convert the signals multiplexed on the fiber to traditional electrical
signals over a coax cable. This box could incorporate an addressable
filter that blocks all video, or just extended basic, perhaps leaving
premium channels as the only ones requiring decryption at the end-point.
(Years ago some cable systems used a similar analog system integrated
into the splitters out on the poles - addressable taps.)

Requiring a set-top-box is advantageous to the cable companies, as it
gives them a computer that they can control to provide add-on premium
services, like shopping, on-demand, DVR, and pay-per-view.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_Network_Terminal#ONT


Shankar Viswanathan wrote:

> RCN...switched to all digital (called
> the "analog crush") and encrypted all the non-broadcast channels. I
> requested them to provide the "basic cable" channels as ClearQAM but
> the guy on the phone did not know (or pretended not to know) the
> difference between "digital" and "encrypted digital" and kept saying
> that the FCC mandated this. Arguing with him was futile and a later
> call to a different support person didn't go any better.
>
> As a result, both my NTSC analog capture card and the QAM tuner in my
> TV are useless.

I actually received some surprisingly intelligent responses from a
Comcast rep. when I emailed them a similar request, but of course there
was nothing useful they could do.

I don't recall how involved the FCC was (if at all) with the "cable
ready" concept, when it was first introduced decades ago, but the
situation with encrypted QAM is effectively rendering the concept of
cable ready moot.

I suspect the reason cable companies don't get more complaints when
consumers find out that they have to dangle a cable box off of the brand
new flat screen they just mounted on the wall, is because consumers just
don't know any better. The cable companies have done a good job of
setting expectations, and so consumers just assume that if they want
cable, the cable box is a necessary evil.

If you care about this, I'd recommend:

1. Emailing your cable company to complain. In theory, enough noise will
induce a change, though it may take threats to discontinue service to
have any impact. Perhaps bypassing customer service and writing to their
corporate office would work better. (Modern customer service
organizations excel at isolating companies from customer feedback.)

2. Write to the FCC to complain. I haven't looked into it yet, but I
wonder if there is an existing movement to lobby the FCC to fix this
situation. Please post a note if you're aware of anything like this.

3. Do what you can to educate non-technical consumers that almost all
TVs sold today are perfectly capable of receiving HD digital signals
from a cable system without using a set-top-box.


As cable companies continue to make it harder to watch and record the
signals they provide, they will only succeed in driving the more
technically inclined customers to other video sources. Using over the
air DTV, and replacing basic cable with BitTorrent is becoming a
practical choice, even if not a legally sound one. Though legal sources
of video on the net is steadily growing.

  -Tom

--
Tom Metro
Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
"Enterprise solutions through open source."
Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/
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[Derek Atkins]

Shankar Viswanathan <shankar.viswan@...> writes:

> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Bill Bogstad<bogstad@...> wrote:
>>
>> Got it now.  They do provide the over the air as clear QAM to me now.   They
>> currently provide me about 45 channels as analog
>> that are not over the air.  Reading between the lines, these channels will
>> probably go encrypted QAM for me in October.
>
> This is exactly what RCN did -- they switched to all digital (called
> the "analog crush") and encrypted all the non-broadcast channels. I
> requested them to provide the "basic cable" channels as ClearQAM but
> the guy on the phone did not know (or pretended not to know) the
> difference between "digital" and "encrypted digital" and kept saying
> that the FCC mandated this. Arguing with him was futile and a later
> call to a different support person didn't go any better.

I had the same results..  I was even quoted in the Globe about it!
Pissed me off.  AT LEAST RCN's HD boxes give full access to all your
content via Firewire..  So you can plug an RCN box into your firewire
port and it'll work...

> As a result, both my NTSC analog capture card and the QAM tuner in my
> TV are useless. The basic converter box that they provided for free
> doesn't have anything except an IR receiver (no serial, no USB, no
> IEEE1394), and I haven't found the time to setup an IR blaster for my
> mythtv yet.

True...  The low level (free) box requires an IR blaster..

> -Shankar

-derek

--
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       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
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[Derek Atkins]

Dan Ritter <dsr@...> writes:

> I'm having immense difficulties getting *two* FW STBs to work,
> though.

Same here..  It works MOST of the time, but if one show starts while
another is already recoding I can get dropouts.

Unfortunately none of the myth devs seem to care, probably because
none of them use it this way so they don't see it themselves.  Also,
the fact that it only happens periodically doesn't help; I can't give
a reliable way to reproduce it.

My plan is to just get another box as a frontend/backend for my guest
room and just move one of my HD boxes from my basement to there, so I'll
only have 1 cable box per machine.

> -dsr-

-derek

--
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       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
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[Jarod Wilson]

On Jun 30, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Derek Atkins wrote:

> Dan Ritter <dsr@...> writes:
>
>> I'm having immense difficulties getting *two* FW STBs to work,
>> though.
>
> Same here..  It works MOST of the time, but if one show starts while
> another is already recoding I can get dropouts.
>
> Unfortunately none of the myth devs seem to care, probably because
> none of them use it this way so they don't see it themselves.

I'd be willing to take a crack at it, if I actually had multiple  
firewire settop boxes and the time to work on it... :(

Sadly, the vast majority of mythtv devs are pretty busy with !mythtv  
these days, about the only thing getting a lot of love is vdpau  
support. We're going on over a year since the last release, and  
looking at 0.22 no sooner than ~3 months out still...

> Also,
> the fact that it only happens periodically doesn't help; I can't give
> a reliable way to reproduce it.

Yeah, that doesn't help either.

> My plan is to just get another box as a frontend/backend for my guest
> room and just move one of my HD boxes from my basement to there, so  
> I'll
> only have 1 cable box per machine.

Just had another thought... If its bus resets that cause the hiccups,  
putting each cable box on its own FireWire card should also eliminate  
the problem, as they'd be on busses isolated from one another.  
Assuming of course that you have the ability to put another FireWire  
card in the current system... And also assuming the mythtv code is  
bright enough to only issue bus resets on the bus a specific box is  
hooked to... Man, I really need to spend some more time looking at  
that code...

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod@...



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[John Abreau-18]

Why not just set up a separate backend server for each firewire connection?
It's what I assumed he was doing, until you suggested otherwise.



On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Jarod Wilson<jarod@...> wrote:

> On Jun 30, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Derek Atkins wrote:
>
>> Dan Ritter <dsr@...> writes:
>>
>>> I'm having immense difficulties getting *two* FW STBs to work,
>>> though.
>>
>> Same here..  It works MOST of the time, but if one show starts while
>> another is already recoding I can get dropouts.
>>
>> Unfortunately none of the myth devs seem to care, probably because
>> none of them use it this way so they don't see it themselves.
>
> I'd be willing to take a crack at it, if I actually had multiple
> firewire settop boxes and the time to work on it... :(
>
> Sadly, the vast majority of mythtv devs are pretty busy with !mythtv
> these days, about the only thing getting a lot of love is vdpau
> support. We're going on over a year since the last release, and
> looking at 0.22 no sooner than ~3 months out still...
>
>> Also,
>> the fact that it only happens periodically doesn't help; I can't give
>> a reliable way to reproduce it.
>
> Yeah, that doesn't help either.
>
>> My plan is to just get another box as a frontend/backend for my guest
>> room and just move one of my HD boxes from my basement to there, so
>> I'll
>> only have 1 cable box per machine.
>
> Just had another thought... If its bus resets that cause the hiccups,
> putting each cable box on its own FireWire card should also eliminate
> the problem, as they'd be on busses isolated from one another.
> Assuming of course that you have the ability to put another FireWire
> card in the current system... And also assuming the mythtv code is
> bright enough to only issue bus resets on the bus a specific box is
> hooked to... Man, I really need to spend some more time looking at
> that code...
>
> --
> Jarod Wilson
> jarod@...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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[Jarod Wilson]

On Jun 30, 2009, at 12:48 PM, John Abreau wrote:

> Why not just set up a separate backend server for each firewire  
> connection?
> It's what I assumed he was doing, until you suggested otherwise.

I believe separate backend machines is indeed what Derek is doing as a  
way to remedy the problem. That should work too, but it requires  
running an additional machine, so I was thinking out loud about a  
single-machine remedy (barring a proper fix in the mythtv code).

> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Jarod Wilson<jarod@...>  
> wrote:
>> On Jun 30, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Derek Atkins wrote:
>>
>>> Dan Ritter <dsr@...> writes:
>>>
>>>> I'm having immense difficulties getting *two* FW STBs to work,
>>>> though.
>>>
>>> Same here..  It works MOST of the time, but if one show starts while
>>> another is already recoding I can get dropouts.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately none of the myth devs seem to care, probably because
>>> none of them use it this way so they don't see it themselves.
>>
>> I'd be willing to take a crack at it, if I actually had multiple
>> firewire settop boxes and the time to work on it... :(
>>
>> Sadly, the vast majority of mythtv devs are pretty busy with !mythtv
>> these days, about the only thing getting a lot of love is vdpau
>> support. We're going on over a year since the last release, and
>> looking at 0.22 no sooner than ~3 months out still...
>>
>>> Also,
>>> the fact that it only happens periodically doesn't help; I can't  
>>> give
>>> a reliable way to reproduce it.
>>
>> Yeah, that doesn't help either.
>>
>>> My plan is to just get another box as a frontend/backend for my  
>>> guest
>>> room and just move one of my HD boxes from my basement to there, so
>>> I'll
>>> only have 1 cable box per machine.
>>
>> Just had another thought... If its bus resets that cause the hiccups,
>> putting each cable box on its own FireWire card should also eliminate
>> the problem, as they'd be on busses isolated from one another.
>> Assuming of course that you have the ability to put another FireWire
>> card in the current system... And also assuming the mythtv code is
>> bright enough to only issue bus resets on the bus a specific box is
>> hooked to... Man, I really need to spend some more time looking at
>> that code...
>>
>> --
>> Jarod Wilson
>> jarod@...
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
>
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[Dan Ritter-2]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:48:55PM -0400, John Abreau wrote:
> Why not just set up a separate backend server for each firewire connection?
> It's what I assumed he was doing, until you suggested otherwise.

I tried that, too. Apparently RCN has problems getting the FW
port to work...

-dsr-


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[Tom Metro-16]

Bill Bogstad wrote:
> I just got a letter from Comcast informing me that on October 20th
> they will be switching all of their Expanded Basic channels to digital
> format.

I spoke to a Comcast rep today and inquired if or when my town was
scheduled to discontinue analog, and was told that the conversion
happens when the community reaches 95% digital subscribers. (The rep.
had no data on my town, but said it wasn't scheduled to happen.)

During the same call I also switched my overpriced basic cable service
to their "HD Starter" package (which I was informed contains no HD
channels), as their promotions make it cost half as much, even though it
essentially changes nothing in the service I receive. (I was also
informed once I made the switch, I couldn't go back. When asked why
someone would want to, the rep explained some use the basic service as a
means to block access to pay-per-view in rental properties.)

Although I'll be ignoring the free set-top-box the service comes with
and continuing to use the analog service, by making the service switch
I'll have pushed my town one step closer to the 95% threshold. Oh well.
Hopefully by the time the change happens, an alternative will have surfaced.

I tried explaining to the rep. that when analog service gets
discontinued I'd probably end my Comcast service, as their encrypted
digital service is incompatible with my DVR. She couldn't fathom how
that'd be a problem. I made a few attempts to explain, but it was going
no where.

This pretty much explains why cable companies have no pressure on them
to supply clear QAM. If they're regularly succeeding in getting 95% of
their subscribers to make the switch to digital service voluntarily (and
presumably not bleeding subscribers at the same time), then the vast
majority of customers have learned to accept the limitations and are
putting up with them without complaints.

  -Tom

--
Tom Metro
Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
"Enterprise solutions through open source."
Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/
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[crschmidt]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 05:31:27PM -0400, Tom Metro wrote:
> This pretty much explains why cable companies have no pressure on them
> to supply clear QAM. If they're regularly succeeding in getting 95% of
> their subscribers to make the switch to digital service voluntarily (and
> presumably not bleeding subscribers at the same time), then the vast
> majority of customers have learned to accept the limitations and are
> putting up with them without complaints.

Because most customers don't *see* any limitations, most likely? I
wasn't aware of a switch being made until after it was made. The people
who are bothered -- at least, the only ones that I'm aware of -- would
seem to be in such a small minority that I can't see any way this would
be a practical issue. (MythTV users are not a majority user of the cable
system, I'm pretty sure. :))

More seriously, outside of freedom of (software|data|content|whatever)
for geeky types, what's the diff likely to be? I don't pay anything
different, I don't notice any difference, and the cable company
presumably saves a bundle at some point due to not having to bother
using their bandwidth on analog. MythTV users suffer, as do users of
DVRs who work without a cablebox -- but is there anyone else? Those
classes would seem a pretty small minority to me.

Of course, it helps that (at least where I live) Comcast has a monopoly
on providing non-broadcast television anyway. So it's not like there's
any market forcing them to provide more options.

Regards,
--
Christopher Schmidt
MetaCarta
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[Bill Bogstad]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Christopher
Schmidt<crschmidt@...> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 05:31:27PM -0400, Tom Metro wrote:
>> This pretty much explains why cable companies have no pressure on them
>> to supply clear QAM. If they're regularly succeeding in getting 95% of
>> their subscribers to make the switch to digital service voluntarily (and
>> presumably not bleeding subscribers at the same time), then the vast
>> majority of customers have learned to accept the limitations and are
>> putting up with them without complaints.

I may have been the last straw for my neighborhood.  I upgraded to an
HD bundle a few months ago
when my previous promo bundle expired and it was cheaper to switch to
a new HD promo bundle then
it was to do a-la-carte services with accepting an HD box.

Christopher wrote:
> Because most customers don't *see* any limitations, most likely? I
> wasn't aware of a switch being made until after it was made. The people
> who are bothered -- at least, the only ones that I'm aware of -- would
> seem to be in such a small minority that I can't see any way this would
> be a practical issue. (MythTV users are not a majority user of the cable
> system, I'm pretty sure. :))

Lots of people may have more then one TV and chances are many of the
secondary units are NTSC only even at this point.  That, of course, is
why Comcast is going to give away cheap digital set top boxes.
Speaking of which, I recall that they recently 'moved' some of the
digital channels in my area into the the Expanded Basic part of my
bundle.  This will act as a sweetener to get people to accept the free
set-top box.  If they do, they will get more channels for the same
amount of money on their secondary TVs.

I should try to get a hold of of my two 'free' converter boxes ASAP so
I can see about interfacing them
with my PVR-150s.  I may actually end benefiting from this conversion
if that works.  I may not get direct digital recordings that way, but
I will have access to a few more channels.

Bill Bogstad
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