Need advice on what and how to commit new build stuff for the booking sample app on WebSphere v7

[Denis Forveille]

(This is the third try to post this messsage as it seems that the previous messages didn't go through...)

Hello,

In order to help people use Seam on WebSphere, I have currently ready to
be committed, the artifacts to build a functional "booking" application
under WebSphere v7
The artifacts are grouped under a "websphere7-resources" directory that
groups the files tailored for WebSphere  v7 and there is a
"build-websphere7.xml" file  to build the ear file.

With this, this it is just a matter of running the build file, declaring
a connection pool in WebSphere and deploying the ear file on WebSphere
to get the "booking" application running on WebSphere v7

I plan also to review the section of the doc related to the usage of
seam on WebSphere v7 as what is in there is over-complicated and there
are may errors (and many jar are out opf date with seam 2.2 ...), and
also to include a section on how to configuire JNDI name resolution for
Seam with WebSphere v7 as it seems that many people have problems with this

Q:
- is the "booking" sample the right example to proposes this kind of thing?
- should it be better if I move my files from the "booking" sample to
the "je55/booking" sampleand make this work there? what is the
difference between both?
- is the structured proposed ok? ie the websphere7-resources directory
that contains the files specific to was and the build-webssphere7.xml
(very similar to what is done done in the "jpa" sample app)

I could commit this as soon as v2.2GA is out..

Thanks
Denis


_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Marek Novotny]

denis.forveille@... píše v Ne 26. 07. 2009 v 22:12 -0400:

> (This is the third try to post this messsage as it seems that the previous messages didn't go through...)
>
> Hello,
>
> In order to help people use Seam on WebSphere, I have currently ready to
> be committed, the artifacts to build a functional "booking" application
> under WebSphere v7
> The artifacts are grouped under a "websphere7-resources" directory that
> groups the files tailored for WebSphere  v7 and there is a
> "build-websphere7.xml" file  to build the ear file.

thanks for that, regarding file and directory names, it should be the
same as we have in jpa example -> directory resources-websphere7. build
file name is fine.

>
> With this, this it is just a matter of running the build file, declaring
> a connection pool in WebSphere and deploying the ear file on WebSphere
> to get the "booking" application running on WebSphere v7
>
> I plan also to review the section of the doc related to the usage of
> seam on WebSphere v7 as what is in there is over-complicated and there
> are may errors (and many jar are out opf date with seam 2.2 ...), and
> also to include a section on how to configuire JNDI name resolution for
> Seam with WebSphere v7 as it seems that many people have problems with this

Agree, one notice, the refdoc for WAS was last updated for version
2.1.2.CR1.
>
> Q:
> - is the "booking" sample the right example to proposes this kind of thing?
Originally booking example in jee5 directory was for interoperability
with Glassfish, WAS, Weblogic AS etc. Seam is now deployed into JBoss AS
5, which is JEE5 certified, so there is a question if it is still
required to have both jee5/booking and booking examples in distribution.

Pete and Dan, what do you think?

> - should it be better if I move my files from the "booking" sample to
> the "je55/booking" sampleand make this work there? what is the
> difference between both?
> - is the structured proposed ok? ie the websphere7-resources directory
> that contains the files specific to was and the build-webssphere7.xml
> (very similar to what is done done in the "jpa" sample app)
As I wrote above, please synchronize the structure with jpa example.

>
> I could commit this as soon as v2.2GA is out..
>
> Thanks
> Denis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> seam-dev mailing list
> seam-dev@...
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

--
Marek Novotny
--
JBoss Seam Product Lead

Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
Purkynova 99
612 45 Brno

Email: mnovotny@...
Office phone: [phone], ext. 82-62 087
mobile: [phone]

------------------------------------------------------
Looking to carve out IT costs?
www.europe.redhat.com/promo/carveoutcosts/

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Pete Muir-2]

Hi Denis,

Great work :-)

On 27 Jul 2009, at 09:15, Marek Novotny wrote:

>
> denis.forveille@... píše v Ne 26. 07. 2009 v 22:12 -0400:
>> (This is the third try to post this messsage as it seems that the  
>> previous messages didn't go through...)
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> In order to help people use Seam on WebSphere, I have currently  
>> ready to
>> be committed, the artifacts to build a functional "booking"  
>> application
>> under WebSphere v7

I think the correct place to put this work is for the jee5/booking  
example, not the plain booking example. The jee5 example is a port of  
the booking example to any jee5 server. You'll also find we have WLS,  
OC4J etc, GFv2 support there.

>> The artifacts are grouped under a "websphere7-resources" directory  
>> that
>> groups the files tailored for WebSphere  v7 and there is a
>> "build-websphere7.xml" file  to build the ear file.
>
> thanks for that, regarding file and directory names, it should be the
> same as we have in jpa example -> directory resources-websphere7.  
> build
> file name is fine.

The correct approach with the jee5/booking example is not to have  
extra resource directories or build scripts, but to add in any changes  
needed as comments, and describe the process in the readme. The aim of  
this is to show how to make an app work on each app server, for people  
to follow with their own application.

>>
>> With this, this it is just a matter of running the build file,  
>> declaring
>> a connection pool in WebSphere and deploying the ear file on  
>> WebSphere
>> to get the "booking" application running on WebSphere v7
>>
>> I plan also to review the section of the doc related to the usage of
>> seam on WebSphere v7 as what is in there is over-complicated and  
>> there
>> are may errors (and many jar are out opf date with seam 2.2 ...), and
>> also to include a section on how to configuire JNDI name resolution  
>> for
>> Seam with WebSphere v7 as it seems that many people have problems  
>> with this
> Agree, one notice, the refdoc for WAS was last updated for version
> 2.1.2.CR1.
>>
>> Q:
>> - is the "booking" sample the right example to proposes this kind  
>> of thing?
> Originally booking example in jee5 directory was for interoperability
> with Glassfish, WAS, Weblogic AS etc. Seam is now deployed into  
> JBoss AS
> 5, which is JEE5 certified, so there is a question if it is still
> required to have both jee5/booking and booking examples in  
> distribution.
>
> Pete and Dan, what do you think?

Yes, let's stick with this for Seam 2.2.

>
>> - should it be better if I move my files from the "booking" sample to
>> the "je55/booking" sampleand make this work there? what is the
>> difference between both?

Yes, as above, use jee5/booking. The booking example is designed to  
run ootb with no changes on JBoss 5 and Tomcat 6 / embedded - lets  
keep the example simple, for people getting started.

>> - is the structured proposed ok? ie the websphere7-resources  
>> directory
>> that contains the files specific to was and the build-webssphere7.xml
>> (very similar to what is done done in the "jpa" sample app)
> As I wrote above, please synchronize the structure with jpa example.

No, use the pattern i describe above for jee5 :-)

>>
>> I could commit this as soon as v2.2GA is out..
>>
>> Thanks
>> Denis
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seam-dev mailing list
>> seam-dev@...
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev
> --
> Marek Novotny
> --
> JBoss Seam Product Lead
>
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
> Purkynova 99
> 612 45 Brno
>
> Email: mnovotny@...
> Office phone: [phone], ext. 82-62 087
> mobile: [phone]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Looking to carve out IT costs?
> www.europe.redhat.com/promo/carveoutcosts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> seam-dev mailing list
> seam-dev@...
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Denis Forveille]

Pete,

2009/7/27 Pete Muir <pmuir@...>

Hi Denis,

Great work :-)

On 27 Jul 2009, at 09:15, Marek Novotny wrote:

denis.forveille@... píše v Ne 26. 07. 2009 v 22:12 -0400:

(This is the third try to post this messsage as it seems that the previous messages didn't go through...)

Hello,

In order to help people use Seam on WebSphere, I have currently ready to
be committed, the artifacts to build a functional "booking" application
under WebSphere v7

I think the correct place to put this work is for the jee5/booking example, not the plain booking example. The jee5 example is a port of the booking example to any jee5 server. You'll also find we have WLS, OC4J etc, GFv2 support there.

The artifacts are grouped under a "websphere7-resources" directory that
groups the files tailored for WebSphere  v7 and there is a
"build-websphere7.xml" file  to build the ear file.

thanks for that, regarding file and directory names, it should be the
same as we have in jpa example -> directory resources-websphere7. build
file name is fine.

The correct approach with the jee5/booking example is not to have extra resource directories or build scripts, but to add in any changes needed as comments, and describe the process in the readme. The aim of this is to show how to make an app work on each app server, for people to follow with their own application.

I understand the concept, but it is quite confusing for the end user:
- There is a "booking"  sample that is dedicated to JBoss. Fine. I will not change/commit anything there. (The readme shoud state that this sample is taylored for JBoss and if the user as another AS it should look at the je55/booking sample instead
- there is a jee5/booking sample which is supposed to be AS "agnostic", but in fact it's not (eg. the build process included specific JBoss libs, there are specific lines for OC4J at various places etc..)
- the jpa sample took another approach, ie a resource-per-AS directoy + abuild file per AS...

On your advice, I could describe what to do to get the booking/"agnostic-like" app to build and run on WAS, but IMHO as an end user discovering seam, it is much easier and faster to run a script that builds the ear file ready-to-be deployed and then inspect what's in the ear to mimic/adapt their own projects.
If not, i would have to describe the content of two files for the user to create by hand (copy/paste from the PDF which is tedious and error prone) and to describe the changes in half a dozen files the user haas to change by hand (build.xml, persistence.xml etc, component.xml, web.xml etc...) and also that the content of some files is not optimal for WAS (eg the ejb-ref in ejb-jar.xml is not necessary for WAS  depending on  how you configure JNDI for seam etc.., nor the ones in web.xml etc....-or i could just say "remove those lines-). The procedure will be a list of "add this line to that file", "remove those set of lines from those files" etc...

Also should I put the WAS specific lines in the files themself (has it has been partially done for OC4J and GF) ? in this case the todo list would be something like : "uncomment those lines" instead of "add those lines" but we will still have the "remove those lines" tasks..

As a compromise, maybe we could have a specific build.xml file per AS (that's includes all the required lib per AS) and a place to put artifact (files specific for an AS) that the end-user could copy itself by hand at the right place before building...but that is very close to have a full resource-websphere7 + build-websphere7.xml files...

Another point, the je55/booking/build.xml is not up to date (missing slf4j and still includes cglib, asm etc..) and the content of the META-INF directory should be split in two: the thing that goes at build time in the ear file and the files that goes into the ejb-jpa.jar file.

WDYT?

Denis

With this, this it is just a matter of running the build file, declaring
a connection pool in WebSphere and deploying the ear file on WebSphere
to get the "booking" application running on WebSphere v7

I plan also to review the section of the doc related to the usage of
seam on WebSphere v7 as what is in there is over-complicated and there
are may errors (and many jar are out opf date with seam 2.2 ...), and
also to include a section on how to configuire JNDI name resolution for
Seam with WebSphere v7 as it seems that many people have problems with this

Agree, one notice, the refdoc for WAS was last updated for version
2.1.2.CR1.

Q:
- is the "booking" sample the right example to proposes this kind of thing?

Originally booking example in jee5 directory was for interoperability
with Glassfish, WAS, Weblogic AS etc. Seam is now deployed into JBoss AS
5, which is JEE5 certified, so there is a question if it is still
required to have both jee5/booking and booking examples in distribution.

Pete and Dan, what do you think?

Yes, let's stick with this for Seam 2.2.

- should it be better if I move my files from the "booking" sample to
the "je55/booking" sampleand make this work there? what is the
difference between both?

Yes, as above, use jee5/booking. The booking example is designed to run ootb with no changes on JBoss 5 and Tomcat 6 / embedded - lets keep the example simple, for people getting started.

- is the structured proposed ok? ie the websphere7-resources directory
that contains the files specific to was and the build-webssphere7.xml
(very similar to what is done done in the "jpa" sample app)

As I wrote above, please synchronize the structure with jpa example.

No, use the pattern i describe above for jee5 :-)

I could commit this as soon as v2.2GA is out..

Thanks
Denis


_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

--
Marek Novotny
--
JBoss Seam Product Lead

Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
Purkynova 99
612 45 Brno

Email: mnovotny@...
Office phone: [phone], ext. 82-62 087
mobile: [phone]

------------------------------------------------------
Looking to carve out IT costs?
www.europe.redhat.com/promo/carveoutcosts/

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Pete Muir-2]

On 27 Jul 2009, at 15:34, Denis Forveille wrote:

> I understand the concept, but it is quite confusing for the end user:
> - There is a "booking"  sample that is dedicated to JBoss. Fine. I  
> will not change/commit anything there. (The readme shoud state that  
> this sample is taylored for JBoss and if the user as another AS it  
> should look at the je55/booking sample instead

Agreed, can you add this?

> - there is a jee5/booking sample which is supposed to be AS  
> "agnostic", but in fact it's not


> (eg. the build process included specific JBoss libs,

Like?

> there are specific lines for OC4J at various places etc..)

Sure, if you look at the readme, you'll see that it tells you to  
uncomment certain lines to add dependencies needed by other app  
servers. At the end of the day, no app server can run an app  
"unmodified".

> - the jpa sample took another approach, ie a resource-per-AS  
> directoy + abuild file per AS...
>
> On your advice, I could describe what to do to get the  
> booking/"agnostic-like" app to build and run on WAS, but IMHO as an  
> end user discovering seam, it is much easier and faster to run a  
> script that builds the ear file ready-to-be deployed and then  
> inspect what's in the ear to mimic/adapt their own projects.

Yes, I personally prefer this approach.

What do others think?

> If not, i would have to describe the content of two files for the  
> user to create by hand (copy/paste from the PDF which is tedious and  
> error prone) and to describe the changes in half a dozen files the  
> user haas to change by hand (build.xml, persistence.xml etc,  
> component.xml, web.xml etc...) and also that the content of some  
> files is not optimal for WAS (eg the ejb-ref in ejb-jar.xml is not  
> necessary for WAS  depending on  how you configure JNDI for seam  
> etc.., nor the ones in web.xml etc....-or i could just say "remove  
> those lines-). The procedure will be a list of "add this line to  
> that file", "remove those set of lines from those files" etc...

Well, I would suggest including instructions for getting it working  
with minimal changes in the readme. You can add a comment to the  
specifc file like <!-- Not required in WAS 7 -->, and write in the ref  
guide that you don't need these (but they don't hurt) etc.

>
> Also should I put the WAS specific lines in the files themself (has  
> it has been partially done for OC4J and GF) ? in this case the todo  
> list would be something like : "uncomment those lines" instead of  
> "add those lines" but we will still have the "remove those lines"  
> tasks..

Exactly, that is the scheme.

>
> As a compromise, maybe we could have a specific build.xml file per  
> AS (that's includes all the required lib per AS) and a place to put  
> artifact (files specific for an AS) that the end-user could copy  
> itself by hand at the right place before building...but that is very  
> close to have a full resource-websphere7 + build-websphere7.xml  
> files...

Right, if we change, IMO it should be to the jpa scheme.

>
> Another point, the je55/booking/build.xml is not up to date (missing  
> slf4j and still includes cglib, asm etc..) and the content of the  
> META-INF directory should be split in two: the thing that goes at  
> build time in the ear file and the files that goes into the ejb-
> jpa.jar file.

Ok, can you update this?
_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Denis Forveille]

2009/7/27 Pete Muir <pmuir@...>

On 27 Jul 2009, at 15:34, Denis Forveille wrote:

I understand the concept, but it is quite confusing for the end user:
- There is a "booking"  sample that is dedicated to JBoss. Fine. I will not change/commit anything there. (The readme shoud state that this sample is taylored for JBoss and if the user as another AS it should look at the je55/booking sample instead

Agreed, can you add this?

OK.
 

- there is a jee5/booking sample which is supposed to be AS "agnostic", but in fact it's not

(eg. the build process included specific JBoss libs,

Like?

jboss-common-core.jar  and concurrent.jar

there are specific lines for OC4J at various places etc..)

Sure, if you look at the readme, you'll see that it tells you to uncomment certain lines to add dependencies needed by other app servers. At the end of the day, no app server can run an app "unmodified".

Sure.

- the jpa sample took another approach, ie a resource-per-AS directoy + abuild file per AS...

On your advice, I could describe what to do to get the booking/"agnostic-like" app to build and run on WAS, but IMHO as an end user discovering seam, it is much easier and faster to run a script that builds the ear file ready-to-be deployed and then inspect what's in the ear to mimic/adapt their own projects.

Yes, I personally prefer this approach.

What do others think?

OK. I will provides entries commented in the files and describe what to remove/uncomment to have the app works with WAS v7

If not, i would have to describe the content of two files for the user to create by hand (copy/paste from the PDF which is tedious and error prone) and to describe the changes in half a dozen files the user haas to change by hand (build.xml, persistence.xml etc, component.xml, web.xml etc...) and also that the content of some files is not optimal for WAS (eg the ejb-ref in ejb-jar.xml is not necessary for WAS  depending on  how you configure JNDI for seam etc.., nor the ones in web.xml etc....-or i could just say "remove those lines-). The procedure will be a list of "add this line to that file", "remove those set of lines from those files" etc...

Well, I would suggest including instructions for getting it working with minimal changes in the readme. You can add a comment to the specifc file like <!-- Not required in WAS 7 -->, and write in the ref guide that you don't need these (but they don't hurt) etc.

But as this sample is likely the application people start with, IMHO it would be better to have an application that shows the "best way to run  Seam on your AS".
eg, in the doc I will describe three ways to configure the application to let Seam smoothy find the beans in the JNDI WAS namespace. If I give instructions to modify the sample app "with minimal changes" (see your comment below) to run on WAS, it will use the worse way (IMO) to do it (ie maintain the ejb3 ref in the config files) and people will build their apps on this without any real sample app that will use the best approach.
If you are OK with it, for WAS, I will give instructions to build the booking application and get the "best way to run Seam on WAS v7", this will include a few extra steps (like remove the ejb-ref etc..)

Also should I put the WAS specific lines in the files themself (has it has been partially done for OC4J and GF) ? in this case the todo list would be something like : "uncomment those lines" instead of "add those lines" but we will still have the "remove those lines" tasks..

Exactly, that is the scheme.

As a compromise, maybe we could have a specific build.xml file per AS (that's includes all the required lib per AS) and a place to put artifact (files specific for an AS) that the end-user could copy itself by hand at the right place before building...but that is very close to have a full resource-websphere7 + build-websphere7.xml files...

Right, if we change, IMO it should be to the jpa scheme.

Another point, the je55/booking/build.xml is not up to date (missing slf4j and still includes cglib, asm etc..) and the content of the META-INF directory should be split in two: the thing that goes at build time in the ear file and the files that goes into the ejb-jpa.jar file.

Ok, can you update this?

OK.

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Pete Muir-2]

On 27 Jul 2009, at 17:57, Denis Forveille wrote:

> (eg. the build process included specific JBoss libs,
>
> Like?
>
> jboss-common-core.jar  and concurrent.jar

IIRC these are Hibernate dependencies...

> Well, I would suggest including instructions for getting it working  
> with minimal changes in the readme. You can add a comment to the  
> specifc file like <!-- Not required in WAS 7 -->, and write in the  
> ref guide that you don't need these (but they don't hurt) etc.
>
> But as this sample is likely the application people start with, IMHO  
> it would be better to have an application that shows the "best way  
> to run  Seam on your AS".
> eg, in the doc I will describe three ways to configure the  
> application to let Seam smoothy find the beans in the JNDI WAS  
> namespace. If I give instructions to modify the sample app "with  
> minimal changes" (see your comment below) to run on WAS, it will use  
> the worse way (IMO) to do it (ie maintain the ejb3 ref in the config  
> files) and people will build their apps on this without any real  
> sample app that will use the best approach.
> If you are OK with it, for WAS, I will give instructions to build  
> the booking application and get the "best way to run Seam on WAS  
> v7", this will include a few extra steps (like remove the ejb-ref  
> etc..)

I would suggest describing both the minimal and recommended.

In other words "If you are getting started with WAS you can do XYZ"  
"Now that you've got the app up and running, you may be wondering if  
you can simplify the configuration. You can by doing PQRST (remove ejb-
refs etc.)"

So, we get people up and running with minimum deviation from the EE  
spec - the most portable app. Then we show how to tweak for WAS.


_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Denis Forveille]

2009/7/27 Pete Muir <pmuir@...>

On 27 Jul 2009, at 17:57, Denis Forveille wrote:

(eg. the build process included specific JBoss libs,

Like?

jboss-common-core.jar  and concurrent.jar

IIRC these are Hibernate dependencies...

Well, I would suggest including instructions for getting it working with minimal changes in the readme. You can add a comment to the specifc file like <!-- Not required in WAS 7 -->, and write in the ref guide that you don't need these (but they don't hurt) etc.

But as this sample is likely the application people start with, IMHO it would be better to have an application that shows the "best way to run  Seam on your AS".
eg, in the doc I will describe three ways to configure the application to let Seam smoothy find the beans in the JNDI WAS namespace. If I give instructions to modify the sample app "with minimal changes" (see your comment below) to run on WAS, it will use the worse way (IMO) to do it (ie maintain the ejb3 ref in the config files) and people will build their apps on this without any real sample app that will use the best approach.
If you are OK with it, for WAS, I will give instructions to build the booking application and get the "best way to run Seam on WAS v7", this will include a few extra steps (like remove the ejb-ref etc..)

I would suggest describing both the minimal and recommended.

In other words "If you are getting started with WAS you can do XYZ" "Now that you've got the app up and running, you may be wondering if you can simplify the configuration. You can by doing PQRST (remove ejb-refs etc.)"

So, we get people up and running with minimum deviation from the EE spec - the most portable app. Then we show how to tweak for WAS.

Understood and agreed.

I've created a JIRA and will start to work on it.

I'll ask you (or someone else) to review at least the doc when I'll commit it in v2.2.1 ('cause of my english..) and i may even ask you to add my name to the "authors"...lol

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Marek Novotny]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Denis Forveille napsal(a):

> 2009/7/27 Pete Muir <pmuir@...>
>
>> On 27 Jul 2009, at 17:57, Denis Forveille wrote:
>>
>>  (eg. the build process included specific JBoss libs,
>>> Like?
>>>
>>> jboss-common-core.jar  and concurrent.jar
>>>
>> IIRC these are Hibernate dependencies...
>>
>>  Well, I would suggest including instructions for getting it working with
>>> minimal changes in the readme. You can add a comment to the specifc file
>>> like <!-- Not required in WAS 7 -->, and write in the ref guide that you
>>> don't need these (but they don't hurt) etc.
>>>
>>> But as this sample is likely the application people start with, IMHO it
>>> would be better to have an application that shows the "best way to run  Seam
>>> on your AS".
>>> eg, in the doc I will describe three ways to configure the application to
>>> let Seam smoothy find the beans in the JNDI WAS namespace. If I give
>>> instructions to modify the sample app "with minimal changes" (see your
>>> comment below) to run on WAS, it will use the worse way (IMO) to do it (ie
>>> maintain the ejb3 ref in the config files) and people will build their apps
>>> on this without any real sample app that will use the best approach.
>>> If you are OK with it, for WAS, I will give instructions to build the
>>> booking application and get the "best way to run Seam on WAS v7", this will
>>> include a few extra steps (like remove the ejb-ref etc..)
>>>
>> I would suggest describing both the minimal and recommended.
>>
>> In other words "If you are getting started with WAS you can do XYZ" "Now
>> that you've got the app up and running, you may be wondering if you can
>> simplify the configuration. You can by doing PQRST (remove ejb-refs etc.)"
>>
>> So, we get people up and running with minimum deviation from the EE spec -
>> the most portable app. Then we show how to tweak for WAS.
>>
>
> Understood and agreed.
>
> I've created a JIRA and will start to work on it.
>
> I'll ask you (or someone else) to review at least the doc when I'll commit
> it in v2.2.1 ('cause of my english..)

when you finish let us know and we will take care about the review.
and i may even ask you to add my name
> to the "authors"...lol
>
you can do it yourself in your commit, add your name in
doc/Seam_Reference_Guide/en-US/Author_Group.xml ;-)

Cheers,

- --
Marek Novotny
- --
JBoss Seam Product Lead

Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
Purkynova 99
612 45 Brno

Email: mnovotny@...
Office phone: [phone], ext. 82-62 087
mobile: [phone]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkpuBZ8ACgkQU4HO8G8hNxVbswCfZSTRqv0riPk8n4bJwHJudsFK
nU0An1O1wr3rNTpEy/EG6FX03zHHn6Y1
=IH0Z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Dan Allen (mojavelinux)]

> On your advice, I could describe what to do to get the
> booking/"agnostic-like" app to build and run on WAS, but IMHO as an
> end user discovering seam, it is much easier and faster to run a
> script that builds the ear file ready-to-be deployed and then
> inspect what's in the ear to mimic/adapt their own projects.

Yes, I personally prefer this approach.

What do others think?

While I think the instructions are important, because they emphasize the changes that have to be made, I wish there was a build that would automate the modifications so that we lower the barrier to getting hands on.

And yes, now that JBoss AS 5 is out, the jee5 app should be the first example any newcomer to Seam tries. Is there a place where we asterisk the default example? If so, we should asterisk the jee5 one.

I've added this statement to the examples/readme.txt file

"If you are just getting started with Seam, it's highly recommended that you
study the jee5/booking example first. This example is designed to run
unmodified on a Java EE 5-compliant application server. Of course, the real
world is never so ideal. Therefore, you'll find modifications that you need to
make for various application servers in the example's readme.txt file. These
instructions can also be found in the Seam reference documentation."

-Dan

--
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
Registered Linux User #231597

http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Denis Forveille]

2009/7/28 Dan Allen <dan.j.allen@...>

> On your advice, I could describe what to do to get the
> booking/"agnostic-like" app to build and run on WAS, but IMHO as an
> end user discovering seam, it is much easier and faster to run a
> script that builds the ear file ready-to-be deployed and then
> inspect what's in the ear to mimic/adapt their own projects.

Yes, I personally prefer this approach.

What do others think?

While I think the instructions are important, because they emphasize the changes that have to be made, I wish there was a build that would automate the modifications so that we lower the barrier to getting hands on.

And yes, now that JBoss AS 5 is out, the jee5 app should be the first example any newcomer to Seam tries. Is there a place where we asterisk the default example? If so, we should asterisk the jee5 one.

OK..

What I could do as an example for the jee5/booking sample:
- commit the build-websphere7.xml file and resource-websphere7 directory like for the jpa sample (with tailored web.xml, persistence.xml, ejb-jar.xml file etc...)
AND
explain in the doc what to do if you want to do it by hand, starting from the "vanilla" resource/build files to get to the WAS v7 tailored files

This could be done also for JBoss5, GFv2 and OC4J as this sample is mainly target for those AS and the bookingsample could then be deprecated...

WDYT?

Two other ideas:
1) I would like that the general sample build proc look first for files in the resource-<as specific> dir THEN in the resource genral dir (ie copy the general resource dir in a temp place then override with specific files from theresource-<as specific> dir) . With that, we could only put in the resource-<as specific> dir,  files that are really different from the base and not all the files as for now. The end user would directly see whant files have been changes (eg pages.xml, faces-config.xml,application.xml  etc....never change )
2) I also would like to get 3 sub dirs in the "resource" folder: "META-IINF" for files that goes in the ear (ie application.xml), WEB-INF for the web module and JPA for file that go into the jpa-ejb jar
 

I've added this statement to the examples/readme.txt file

"If you are just getting started with Seam, it's highly recommended that you
study the jee5/booking example first. This example is designed to run
unmodified on a Java EE 5-compliant application server. Of course, the real
world is never so ideal. Therefore, you'll find modifications that you need to
make for various application servers in the example's readme.txt file. These
instructions can also be found in the Seam reference documentation."

-Dan

--
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
Registered Linux User #231597

http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Pete Muir-2]

Can we keep this to the booking example for Seam 2.2. I primary target  
is JBoss AS, and this example is designed to run unmodified on JBoss  
AS, and to show off the ease of use features it has for Seam  
integration.

I think we should add this to the Seam 3 design discussions - how do  
we address running Seam examples in different environments? Currently  
it does seem crazy to have so many copies of the booking examples  
which are essentially identical. I don't have a good answer for this -  
we should throw some ideas around at JBoss World when some of us are  
in the same room I think.

On 28 Jul 2009, at 17:57, Dan Allen wrote:

> I've added this statement to the examples/readme.txt file
>
> "If you are just getting started with Seam, it's highly recommended  
> that you
> study the jee5/booking example first. This example is designed to run
> unmodified on a Java EE 5-compliant application server. Of course,  
> the real
> world is never so ideal. Therefore, you'll find modifications that  
> you need to
> make for various application servers in the example's readme.txt  
> file. These
> instructions can also be found in the Seam reference documentation."

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Pete Muir-2]

On 28 Jul 2009, at 18:47, Denis Forveille wrote:

> 2009/7/28 Dan Allen <dan.j.allen@...>
>
> > On your advice, I could describe what to do to get the
> > booking/"agnostic-like" app to build and run on WAS, but IMHO as an
> > end user discovering seam, it is much easier and faster to run a
> > script that builds the ear file ready-to-be deployed and then
> > inspect what's in the ear to mimic/adapt their own projects.
>
> Yes, I personally prefer this approach.
>
> What do others think?
>
> While I think the instructions are important, because they emphasize  
> the changes that have to be made, I wish there was a build that  
> would automate the modifications so that we lower the barrier to  
> getting hands on.
>
> And yes, now that JBoss AS 5 is out, the jee5 app should be the  
> first example any newcomer to Seam tries. Is there a place where we  
> asterisk the default example? If so, we should asterisk the jee5 one.
>
> OK..
>
> What I could do as an example for the jee5/booking sample:
> - commit the build-websphere7.xml file and resource-websphere7  
> directory like for the jpa sample (with tailored web.xml,  
> persistence.xml, ejb-jar.xml file etc...)
> AND
> explain in the doc what to do if you want to do it by hand, starting  
> from the "vanilla" resource/build files to get to the WAS v7  
> tailored files
>
> This could be done also for JBoss5, GFv2 and OC4J as this sample is  
> mainly target for those AS and the bookingsample could then be  
> deprecated...

We should address this for Seam 3, as I stated on the other mail. I  
think there are a number of issues with the way the examples are  
structured and I would like to address in a coherant manner, not  
piecemeal.

>
> WDYT?
>
> Two other ideas:
> 1) I would like that the general sample build proc look first for  
> files in the resource-<as specific> dir THEN in the resource genral  
> dir (ie copy the general resource dir in a temp place then override  
> with specific files from theresource-<as specific> dir) . With that,  
> we could only put in the resource-<as specific> dir,  files that are  
> really different from the base and not all the files as for now. The  
> end user would directly see whant files have been changes (eg  
> pages.xml, faces-config.xml,application.xml  etc....never change )

Or you could even use the unified diff format in the resource specific  
directory, perhaps as a patch file which is applied during build -  
this would make it super easy to see the changes needed.

> 2) I also would like to get 3 sub dirs in the "resource" folder:  
> "META-IINF" for files that goes in the ear (ie application.xml), WEB-
> INF for the web module and JPA for file that go into the jpa-ejb jar

This is a big change, but again, we need to address the entire way we  
structure examples in Seam 3, and align with JBoss Tools so that our  
examples work ootb there. This means adopting the JBT structure for  
projects I think.

Again, we need to start a wiki page for this :-)

>
>
> I've added this statement to the examples/readme.txt file
>
> "If you are just getting started with Seam, it's highly recommended  
> that you
> study the jee5/booking example first. This example is designed to run
> unmodified on a Java EE 5-compliant application server. Of course,  
> the real
> world is never so ideal. Therefore, you'll find modifications that  
> you need to
> make for various application servers in the example's readme.txt  
> file. These
> instructions can also be found in the Seam reference documentation."
>
> -Dan
>
> --
> Dan Allen
> Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
> Registered Linux User #231597
>
> http://mojavelinux.com
> http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
> http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan
>

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Denis Forveille]

I have commited files to build the sample on WebSphere v7 in the jee5/booking sample app, and also a rework of the WebSphere v7/Seam integration chapter in the doc
(I didn't touched the WebSphere/seam-gen chapter in the doc as there is another JIRA opened about seam-gen that should address that IMHO...
Please let me know if that's ok.
Denis

2009/8/3 Pete Muir <pmuir@...>

On 28 Jul 2009, at 18:47, Denis Forveille wrote:

2009/7/28 Dan Allen <dan.j.allen@...>

> On your advice, I could describe what to do to get the
> booking/"agnostic-like" app to build and run on WAS, but IMHO as an
> end user discovering seam, it is much easier and faster to run a
> script that builds the ear file ready-to-be deployed and then
> inspect what's in the ear to mimic/adapt their own projects.

Yes, I personally prefer this approach.

What do others think?

While I think the instructions are important, because they emphasize the changes that have to be made, I wish there was a build that would automate the modifications so that we lower the barrier to getting hands on.

And yes, now that JBoss AS 5 is out, the jee5 app should be the first example any newcomer to Seam tries. Is there a place where we asterisk the default example? If so, we should asterisk the jee5 one.

OK..

What I could do as an example for the jee5/booking sample:
- commit the build-websphere7.xml file and resource-websphere7 directory like for the jpa sample (with tailored web.xml, persistence.xml, ejb-jar.xml file etc...)
AND
explain in the doc what to do if you want to do it by hand, starting from the "vanilla" resource/build files to get to the WAS v7 tailored files

This could be done also for JBoss5, GFv2 and OC4J as this sample is mainly target for those AS and the bookingsample could then be deprecated...

We should address this for Seam 3, as I stated on the other mail. I think there are a number of issues with the way the examples are structured and I would like to address in a coherant manner, not piecemeal.

WDYT?

Two other ideas:
1) I would like that the general sample build proc look first for files in the resource-<as specific> dir THEN in the resource genral dir (ie copy the general resource dir in a temp place then override with specific files from theresource-<as specific> dir) . With that, we could only put in the resource-<as specific> dir,  files that are really different from the base and not all the files as for now. The end user would directly see whant files have been changes (eg pages.xml, faces-config.xml,application.xml  etc....never change )

Or you could even use the unified diff format in the resource specific directory, perhaps as a patch file which is applied during build - this would make it super easy to see the changes needed.

2) I also would like to get 3 sub dirs in the "resource" folder: "META-IINF" for files that goes in the ear (ie application.xml), WEB-INF for the web module and JPA for file that go into the jpa-ejb jar

This is a big change, but again, we need to address the entire way we structure examples in Seam 3, and align with JBoss Tools so that our examples work ootb there. This means adopting the JBT structure for projects I think.

Again, we need to start a wiki page for this :-)

I've added this statement to the examples/readme.txt file

"If you are just getting started with Seam, it's highly recommended that you
study the jee5/booking example first. This example is designed to run
unmodified on a Java EE 5-compliant application server. Of course, the real
world is never so ideal. Therefore, you'll find modifications that you need to
make for various application servers in the example's readme.txt file. These
instructions can also be found in the Seam reference documentation."

-Dan

--
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
Registered Linux User #231597

http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Max Rydahl Andersen-2]

2) I also would like to get 3 sub dirs in the "resource" folder:  
"META-IINF" for files that goes in the ear (ie application.xml), WEB- 
INF for the web module and JPA for file that go into the jpa-ejb jar
    

This is a big change, but again, we need to address the entire way we  
structure examples in Seam 3, and align with JBoss Tools so that our  
examples work ootb there. This means adopting the JBT structure for  
projects I think.

Again, we need to start a wiki page for this :-)
  

One thing that should help is that we know integrate with m2eclipse allowing you to at least use maven.

I still don't know (haven't had time to look into it) how we are going to handle (in any IDE) that there are
multiple deployment/configuration descriptors in one project - most non-jbosstools-tools assumes
a specific structure (i.e. persistence.xml is in META-INF and not called something else) - but maybe
maven's profile feature can be used for it....something to explore at least.
_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Pete Muir-2]

On 4 Aug 2009, at 08:21, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:

>
>>> 2) I also would like to get 3 sub dirs in the "resource" folder:
>>> "META-IINF" for files that goes in the ear (ie application.xml),  
>>> WEB-
>>> INF for the web module and JPA for file that go into the jpa-ejb jar
>>>
>>
>> This is a big change, but again, we need to address the entire way we
>> structure examples in Seam 3, and align with JBoss Tools so that our
>> examples work ootb there. This means adopting the JBT structure for
>> projects I think.
>>
>> Again, we need to start a wiki page for this :-)
>>
> One thing that should help is that we know integrate with m2eclipse  
> allowing you to at least use maven.
>
> I still don't know (haven't had time to look into it) how we are  
> going to handle (in any IDE) that there are
> multiple deployment/configuration descriptors in one project - most  
> non-jbosstools-tools assumes
> a specific structure (i.e. persistence.xml is in META-INF and not  
> called something else) - but maybe
> maven's profile feature can be used for it....something to explore  
> at least.

Does this mean you are using the maven project structure from now on?  
Or are you sticking with WebContent etc.?

Pete
_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Dan Allen (mojavelinux)]

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 3:21 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen <max.andersen@...> wrote:

2) I also would like to get 3 sub dirs in the "resource" folder:  
"META-IINF" for files that goes in the ear (ie application.xml), WEB- 
INF for the web module and JPA for file that go into the jpa-ejb jar
    

This is a big change, but again, we need to address the entire way we  
structure examples in Seam 3, and align with JBoss Tools so that our  
examples work ootb there. This means adopting the JBT structure for  
projects I think.

Again, we need to start a wiki page for this :-)
  

One thing that should help is that we know integrate with m2eclipse allowing you to at least use maven.

I still don't know (haven't had time to look into it) how we are going to handle (in any IDE) that there are
multiple deployment/configuration descriptors in one project - most non-jbosstools-tools assumes
a specific structure (i.e. persistence.xml is in META-INF and not called something else) - but maybe
maven's profile feature can be used for it....something to explore at least.

I think Maven 2 profiles are the answer, or at least to cover 90%. A tool should be able to do property replacement between Maven 2 properties and the replacement tokens in the files. I'm not sure if this is m2eclipse's responsibility or JBoss Tools (users really don't need to know the details here). This works because Maven 2 behavior is predictable and well defined. With Ant, it's just wild west which files get filtered and where the tokens come from. And the Seam 2 examples use Ant in the most gnarly way.

As for the last 10% (or however many edge cases there are), we can address those on a case-by-case basis in a way that impacts the tooling the least. In the worst case scenario, you have to comment out some code in the source files to support one app server or the other. But I think this is acceptable in small amounts given that once you decide to target an app server, you keep using the same one while developing (so it's not something you have to do over and over).

Let's just push profiles as far as they are willing to go. We'll be Maven ninjas by the time the examples are all setup, no doubt.

-Dan

--
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
Registered Linux User #231597

http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Dan Allen (mojavelinux)]

Does this mean you are using the maven project structure from now on?
Or are you sticking with WebContent etc.?

Please let us use the damn Maven 2 standard and end this battle.

-Dan

IMHO, "WebContent" is the most ridiculous folder name when put next to "src". It's almost as bad as "My Documents" from Windows. We might as well just call it "My Web Files".

--
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
Registered Linux User #231597

http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Pete Muir-2]

Agreed. But I think this is a WTP default, not a JBT default. Max?

On 5 Aug 2009, at 00:34, Dan Allen wrote:

>
>
> Does this mean you are using the maven project structure from now on?
> Or are you sticking with WebContent etc.?
>
> Please let us use the damn Maven 2 standard and end this battle.
>
> -Dan
>
> IMHO, "WebContent" is the most ridiculous folder name when put next  
> to "src". It's almost as bad as "My Documents" from Windows. We  
> might as well just call it "My Web Files".
>
> --
> Dan Allen
> Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
> Registered Linux User #231597
>
> http://mojavelinux.com
> http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
> http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev

[Dan Allen (mojavelinux)]

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:45 AM, Pete Muir <pmuir@...> wrote:

Agreed. But I think this is a WTP default, not a JBT default. Max?

Yes, but surely the Seam Web Project wizard has some control over customizing it. I'm certain that the WTP plugin doesn't require that path, but merely suggests it as the default. Can't the JBT wizard simply offer a better default when the project is being setup? In the end, the path is just written into an XML file inside of .settings and WTP just uses the path it is instructed to use.

-Dan

--
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
Registered Linux User #231597

http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Dan

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev@...
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev