NetBSD at Southern California Linux Expo 7x...

[Kevin Lahey]

[Sending again;  I suspect it got bounced due to multiple recipients.]

Well, we successfully flew the NetBSD flag at yet another Southern
California Linux Expo -- for the fifth year in a row.  Big thanks to
the SCALE organizers, especially Gareth Greenaway, who went out of
their way to make us feel welcome, and to David Maxwell and John
Hickey, who came out yet again to staff the booth.

David was there bright and early both days, staffing the booth even
before I managed to get there, and toughed it out to the end!  John
showed up Sunday with lunch and an Ultra 60;  he proceeded to install
NetBSD on his mini netbook under VirtualPC and then used that to
netboot the Sparc and install it during the show.

We (well, I, at least) had a great time talking to all of the crazy
hackers in Southern California;  an amazing number of folks came by
the booth to talk about the little SGI Indy on the table.  I had no
idea so many people were still running Irix!  Hopefully we converted
a few to NetBSD.

This is a relatively big event, and it feels good to know that NetBSD
has a booth there along with FreeBSD and OpenBSD.  I'd encourage other
folks to think about spending a weekend in LA next year!

Kevin
kml@...

[fuzzyping]

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 05:01:45PM -0800, Kevin Lahey wrote:

>
> Well, we successfully flew the NetBSD flag at yet another Southern
> California Linux Expo -- for the fifth year in a row.  Big thanks to
> the SCALE organizers, especially Gareth Greenaway, who went out of
> their way to make us feel welcome, and to David Maxwell and John
> Hickey, who came out yet again to staff the booth.
>
> David was there bright and early both days, staffing the booth even
> before I managed to get there, and toughed it out to the end!  John
> showed up Sunday with lunch and an Ultra 60;  he proceeded to install
> NetBSD on his mini netbook under VirtualPC and then used that to
> netboot the Sparc and install it during the show.
>
> We (well, I, at least) had a great time talking to all of the crazy
> hackers in Southern California;  an amazing number of folks came by
> the booth to talk about the little SGI Indy on the table.  I had no
> idea so many people were still running Irix!  Hopefully we converted
> a few to NetBSD.
>
> This is a relatively big event, and it feels good to know that NetBSD
> has a booth there along with FreeBSD and OpenBSD.  I'd encourage other
> folks to think about spending a weekend in LA next year!

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed so much success at SCaLE.  However, I'm
personally a bit disappointed to hear that NetBSD put forth so much
effort into representation at a Linux conference, while having zero
presence at DCBSDCon 2009, a BSD conference aimed at celebrating BSD
software, developers and the community.

Please understand I'm not trying to rest all of this on your shoulders.
I just think this is a good opportunity to address the lack of
participation by the NetBSD project at some of our own conferences (from
my experience, particularly at NYCBSDCon and DCBSDCon).  I know that
NetBSD has a strong U.S. East-coast footprint, so I'm confused as to how
these events can be overlooked.

If there's anything we, as organizers, can do to make ourselves more
engaging to the NetBSD speakers and developers, please let us know.  I
personally sent numerous emails to this list and to team members trying
to get some participation.  My pleas were met with silence.

Thanks,

--
Jason Dixon
DixonGroup Consulting
http://www.dixongroup.net/

[David Maxwell]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:20:13AM -0500, Jason Dixon wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 05:01:45PM -0800, Kevin Lahey wrote:
> >
> > Well, we successfully flew the NetBSD flag at yet another Southern
> > California Linux Expo -- for the fifth year in a row.  Big thanks to
>
> I'm glad to hear you enjoyed so much success at SCaLE.  However, I'm
> personally a bit disappointed to hear that NetBSD put forth so much
> effort into representation at a Linux conference, while having zero
> presence at DCBSDCon 2009, a BSD conference aimed at celebrating BSD
> software, developers and the community.
>
> Please understand I'm not trying to rest all of this on your shoulders.
> I just think this is a good opportunity to address the lack of
> participation by the NetBSD project at some of our own conferences (from
> my experience, particularly at NYCBSDCon and DCBSDCon).  I know that
> NetBSD has a strong U.S. East-coast footprint, so I'm confused as to how
> these events can be overlooked.
>
> If there's anything we, as organizers, can do to make ourselves more
> engaging to the NetBSD speakers and developers, please let us know.  I
> personally sent numerous emails to this list and to team members trying
> to get some participation.  My pleas were met with silence.

I think there's really just one simple answer - 'NetBSD' didn't put
forth effort into representation at SCALE - individuals did.

Likewise, 'NetBSD' didn't fail to represent at DCBSDCon, but individuals
didn't come forward to do so.

Historically, NetBSD participation in shows (from the ones I've seen)
has largely been dependent on getting free booth space from the event
organizers, and having local volunteers who could spare the time to
participate and equipment to put on the desk. In the case of SCALE, I
happened to be going to the conference to present for my day job with
Coverity, but there was no Coverity booth on the show floor which
required my time, so I was free to man the NetBSD booth. Kevin and John
are locals.

That said - perhaps the project can assemble a list of speakers and
representatives to reach out to about upcoming events, and see if
there's a way to develop a greater presence. I'll ask some of the people
I know from other BSDs how they've managed to get the turnouts they do.

--
David Maxwell, david@...|david@... -->
Any sufficiently advanced Common Sense will seem like magic...
                                              - me

[George Rosamond]

David Maxwell wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:20:13AM -0500, Jason Dixon wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 05:01:45PM -0800, Kevin Lahey wrote:
>>> Well, we successfully flew the NetBSD flag at yet another Southern
>>> California Linux Expo -- for the fifth year in a row.  Big thanks to
>> I'm glad to hear you enjoyed so much success at SCaLE.  However, I'm
>> personally a bit disappointed to hear that NetBSD put forth so much
>> effort into representation at a Linux conference, while having zero
>> presence at DCBSDCon 2009, a BSD conference aimed at celebrating BSD
>> software, developers and the community.
>>
>> Please understand I'm not trying to rest all of this on your shoulders.
>> I just think this is a good opportunity to address the lack of
>> participation by the NetBSD project at some of our own conferences (from
>> my experience, particularly at NYCBSDCon and DCBSDCon).  I know that
>> NetBSD has a strong U.S. East-coast footprint, so I'm confused as to how
>> these events can be overlooked.
>>
>> If there's anything we, as organizers, can do to make ourselves more
>> engaging to the NetBSD speakers and developers, please let us know.  I
>> personally sent numerous emails to this list and to team members trying
>> to get some participation.  My pleas were met with silence.
>
> I think there's really just one simple answer - 'NetBSD' didn't put
> forth effort into representation at SCALE - individuals did.

Kind of semantics, DM. . .

>
> Likewise, 'NetBSD' didn't fail to represent at DCBSDCon, but individuals
> didn't come forward to do so.
>

NBSD has had a centralized organized board for how long now?

Just speaking from the NYCBSDCon experience, it's like pulling teeth to
get CFPs, table people, etc.

> Historically, NetBSD participation in shows (from the ones I've seen)
> has largely been dependent on getting free booth space from the event
> organizers, and having local volunteers who could spare the time to
> participate and equipment to put on the desk. In the case of SCALE, I
> happened to be going to the conference to present for my day job with
> Coverity, but there was no Coverity booth on the show floor which
> required my time, so I was free to man the NetBSD booth. Kevin and John
> are locals.
>

DM. . . I even spend time stalking the DBA crew each year on this. . .
and hit a good number of the NBSD devs in NYC each year. . .

And of course, we provide a free table.

> That said - perhaps the project can assemble a list of speakers and
> representatives to reach out to about upcoming events, and see if
> there's a way to develop a greater presence. I'll ask some of the people
> I know from other BSDs how they've managed to get the turnouts they do.
>


Please do David. . .  I'm glad Jason brought this up. . . it's very
frustrating.

If we chased the remote OpenBSD people to participate  in NYCBSDCon like
I did the local NetBSD people, we'd be sleeping on a lot of coaches in .ca.

g

[fuzzyping]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:10:32PM -0500, David Maxwell wrote:
>
> That said - perhaps the project can assemble a list of speakers and
> representatives to reach out to about upcoming events, and see if
> there's a way to develop a greater presence. I'll ask some of the people
> I know from other BSDs how they've managed to get the turnouts they do.

I'll be brief.  "Help us help you."  :)

--
Jason Dixon
DixonGroup Consulting
http://www.dixongroup.net/

[Dan Langille]

George Rosamond wrote:

> Please do David. . .  I'm glad Jason brought this up. . . it's very
> frustrating.

It's not just NYCBSDCon and DCBSDCon.  BSDCan has the same issue.

> If we chased the remote OpenBSD people to participate  in NYCBSDCon like
> I did the local NetBSD people, we'd be sleeping on a lot of coaches in .ca.

What does that mean?

--
Dan Langille

BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference : http://www.bsdcan.org/
PGCon  - The PostgreSQL Conference:     http://www.pgcon.org/

[George Rosamond]

Dan Langille wrote:

> George Rosamond wrote:
>
>> Please do David. . .  I'm glad Jason brought this up. . . it's very
>> frustrating.
>
> It's not just NYCBSDCon and DCBSDCon.  BSDCan has the same issue.
>
>> If we chased the remote OpenBSD people to participate  in NYCBSDCon
>> like I did the local NetBSD people, we'd be sleeping on a lot of
>> coaches in .ca.
>
> What does that mean?

Simply that we have no problem getting OpenBSD submissions yet we spend
time chasing NetBSD.

g

[David Maxwell]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:18:09PM -0500, George Rosamond wrote:

> David Maxwell wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:20:13AM -0500, Jason Dixon wrote:
>>> I'm glad to hear you enjoyed so much success at SCaLE.  However, I'm
>>> personally a bit disappointed to hear that NetBSD put forth so much
>>> effort into representation at a Linux conference, while having zero
>>> presence at DCBSDCon 2009, a BSD conference aimed at celebrating BSD
>>> software, developers and the community.
>>>
>>> If there's anything we, as organizers, can do to make ourselves more
>>> engaging to the NetBSD speakers and developers, please let us know.  I
>>> personally sent numerous emails to this list and to team members trying
>>> to get some participation.  My pleas were met with silence.
>>
>> I think there's really just one simple answer - 'NetBSD' didn't put
>> forth effort into representation at SCALE - individuals did.
>
> Kind of semantics, DM. . .

Hi George,

Semantics perhaps, but hopefully clarification via semantics, rather
than avoidance via semantics.

As volunteers on a project, each individual has their own motivations
for participation, whether by coding, documenting, packaging, speaking,
helping users on lists or irc...

The Board (which I'm not on, and so don't speak for (can't miss the
opportunity for an in-joke there)) can encourage such activities, but it
can't demand them from people who are volunteers.

Has it done everything that it could on the 'encourage' side? I couldn't
say. I bet it would be open to suggestions though.

>> Likewise, 'NetBSD' didn't fail to represent at DCBSDCon, but individuals
>> didn't come forward to do so.
>
> NBSD has had a centralized organized board for how long now?
>
> Just speaking from the NYCBSDCon experience, it's like pulling teeth to  
> get CFPs, table people, etc.

Whether or not the board has been trying to do this - what would make
it any less tooth-pullingly-difficult for them to drag volunteers out?

Having a Board doesn't mean they've been focused on increasing presence
at conferences.

However, since I'm one of the people who has done more conferences than
many NetBSDers (I recall 10 shows of booth-duty offhand) the question
is probably better targetted to the less active folk.

Distance, time, and money are probably three large barriers for
individuals. Some may feel concerned about their ability to answer
questions, or depth of knowledge. I'm not sure what other factors might
apply.

>> Historically, NetBSD participation in shows (from the ones I've seen)
>> has largely been dependent on getting free booth space from the event
>> organizers, and having local volunteers who could spare the time to
>> participate and equipment to put on the desk. In the case of SCALE, I
>> happened to be going to the conference to present for my day job with
>> Coverity, but there was no Coverity booth on the show floor which
>> required my time, so I was free to man the NetBSD booth. Kevin and John
>> are locals.
>
> DM. . . I even spend time stalking the DBA crew each year on this. . .  
> and hit a good number of the NBSD devs in NYC each year. . .
>
> And of course, we provide a free table.

Sure - that wasn't a jibe, just pointing out that some conferences do
eliminate themselves from consideration. For example, even when the
booth is free, some conferences want fees for network, power, a table,
tablecloth, and unionized cartage of equipment on and off the show
floor.

Sounds like the NYC developers aren't lacking in locality - so that
leaves time. :-(

>> That said - perhaps the project can assemble a list of speakers and
>> representatives to reach out to about upcoming events, and see if
>> there's a way to develop a greater presence. I'll ask some of the people
>> I know from other BSDs how they've managed to get the turnouts they do.
>
> Please do David. . .  I'm glad Jason brought this up. . . it's very  
> frustrating.

I'll talk to the Board about it - but please, feel free to suggest
anything you think might help (e.g. Jason's 'let us help you')

--
David Maxwell, david@...|david@... -->
(About an Amiga rendering landscapes) It's not thinking, it's being artistic!
                                              - Jamie Woods

[Allen Briggs]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:10:32PM -0500, David Maxwell wrote:
> Likewise, 'NetBSD' didn't fail to represent at DCBSDCon, but individuals
> didn't come forward to do so.

Well, one of the folks from DCBSDCon did contact me to see if I'd
be interested in speaking.  I didn't have anything prepared at the
time, the time to put something together (I was approached at the
submission deadline, so there wasn't much time), or the vacation
time to go to the conference (but I might have been able to shuffle
some other stuff to make the time).

> Historically, NetBSD participation in shows (from the ones I've seen)
> has largely been dependent on getting free booth space from the event
> organizers, and having local volunteers who could spare the time to
> participate and equipment to put on the desk.

I think the second is probably the most important part.

I know I'd be more likely to find the time go to a conference if
I were local, but I'm not really local to anything.  I'd be more
likely to present at a conference if I had something to present,
but I haven't really thought much about what I could put together
to present.

-allen

--
Allen Briggs  |  http://www.ninthwonder.com/~briggs/  |  briggs@...

[Brian A. Seklecki]

> Just speaking from the NYCBSDCon experience, it's like pulling teeth to get
> CFPs, table people, etc.

GR: To head it off at the pass, I'll help run the booth at the next
NYCBSDCon.  I'm hoping to get there, and to BSDCan this year.

I'll bring a Soekris, ALIX, AxiomTek and a NSL2 SLUG.

I can maybe give a lightweight talk, too -- maybe a tutorial on IPv6
migration, etc.

~Brian

[George Rosamond]

Brian A. Seklecki wrote:
>> Just speaking from the NYCBSDCon experience, it's like pulling teeth to get
>> CFPs, table people, etc.
>
> GR: To head it off at the pass, I'll help run the booth at the next
> NYCBSDCon.  I'm hoping to get there, and to BSDCan this year.

:)

I know you've been there before

>
> I'll bring a Soekris, ALIX, AxiomTek and a NSL2 SLUG.
>
> I can maybe give a lightweight talk, too -- maybe a tutorial on IPv6
> migration, etc.
>

Okay... we're going to see whether we hold the con this fall. . . or
alternate years. . .

George