New Things coming... a bit long

[CESDewar]

Ok, it's probably still a bit premature to let you know what is going on
here, but neither do I want any further delays to be perceived as some kind
of game as that was never my intent when saying I was working on some new
stuff.

First off, there are a few people on this forum who have known for several
weeks what I've been working on, but who have been kind enough to honor my
requests not to mention it prematurely.

I have been reading the speculation with some interest - of course everyone
wants the world, and I hope my repeated assertions that this would be a
relatively modest announcement were not entirely overlooked!

I decided that after running with DateBk for some eleven years (the first
version appeared in 1997), it was time to throw out the code base and start
over completely from scratch - drawing on all the knowledge acquired over
these past 11 years as to what people want. DateBk was also inextricably
tied to the Palm OS platform, the PIM databases, and the need to maintain
perfect compatibility with the native Palm PIM database structures.

It was also clear to everyone that tying myself to any specific platform for
the future would be a poor decision. I must get 20-30 emails a day from
people asking about iPhone, RIM, Windows Mobile, Symbian etc, desktop
versions, etc. But trying to address all platforms is not exactly a trivial
proposition either to say the very least!

So what I've been working on LOOKS like a Desktop version of DateBk6 for
windows, and in fact that IS and will be the first thing to come out from
all these efforts. It's got some way to go before it's ready for general
release, and if I had my druthers, I would probably have waited at least
another month before even announcing it, but then again I think it may
achieve suitable stability pretty rapidly once the basic bugs are out of the
way.

If you look a bit more closely though, you will realize that this is not
just a version of Datebk for windows, but rather a completely new calendar
application with new concepts and a completely new code base that shares
nothing with Datebk internally. Of course, key ideas in Datebk are all
present, but may work somewhat differently. It is not practical for me to
rewrite this application from scratch for each platform, or to perform a
huge 'port' to a different environment, so the entire application was
specifically designed and written to be portable across multiple platforms.
How well this works, we'll find out soon enough - as soon as the Windows
version looks in good shape and the design frozen, I will work on the Mac
and Linux versions.

Of course, I also want to see this on handhelds too - but that will follow
the desktop version.

Some handhelds are going to handle this better than others. The iPhone is
probably the biggest problem right now with Windows Mobile, Symbian and
Blackberry looking reasonable to work with. As for Palm, most likely I will
look at what Palm does with these new Linux-based devices coming down the
pike in 2009 (assuming they appear) - it would be a good time to leave
DateBk6 alone, and switch to Pimlical as the solution - using the native
Linux port as the basis for running in that environment.

Obviously I have looked at all these other handhelds, and also designed this
application with the specific knowledge that it may run in environments with
small screens that pose issues for the design of the GUI. But moving to such
platforms will clearly involve more work as well. But having a new program
written from scratch with the foreknowledge that has to be done makes a big
difference in tackling that task.

The application is tentatively named Pimlical. It's not available for
download and won't be for a while longer until some basic issues are flushed
out with a small group of testers.

I may be expanding the number of testers by a SMALL amount shortly. There
will no doubt be a few users who want to see what I've been working on, but
I really want to stay focussed with just those people who are genuinely in a
position to test the application and accurately report issues they find,
including doing some detective work to isolate the problems. They must be
willing to send me a copy of their database to look at (so if you are
paranoid about even letting me have access to your data, kindly skip the
request as there is nothing more frustrating to have a problem reported, but
no way to reproduce it without the customer's data that they are unwilling
to provide). You will also need to install the very latest version of the
Palm Desktop (V-6.2) which, btw, can be made to work with all Palm devices
using OS 3.5 or later (it doesn't work out of the box, but I have a program
that modifies the installation to get it to work just fine with
older/traditional Palm OS devices - I'll be releasing that shortly). So if
this is something you have a huge urge to jump on - working with the V-6.2
desktop is worth installing. Yes, it's not perfect and raises some issues,
but some of those issues will disappear with Pimlical, so it's probably not
that big of a problem...

And finally, I will still ask the testers to refrain from posting any
detailed information on this or any other public forum. It's too early to
include detailed comments about functionality, when the functionality is
still not locked in fully, and subject to significant change. I don't mind
some general comments appearing and will attempt to answer them, but not any
specific details. Once we get past the initial testing and have what I would
describe as a reasonable beta preview, it will be made available. I am still
working on the pricing - remember that the sole reason I am working on this
is to support my wildlife conservation efforts, and so I won't be giving
this software away (someone already asked if I was going to "give" this away
to all registered DateBk users - I replied that it was a tad optimistic on a
user's part to think I spent the last nine months working night and day to
come up with a piece of freeware <g>).

Yes, a lot (but not all) of the issues in DateBk are addressed in this new
application (more than one alarm, ability to set separate timezones for
start/end of an event, events that span multiple days AND can also repeat,
full orthogonality in all views vis-a-vis all functions, drag/drop/stretch
support in all views, due dates on floating events, priority and urgency on
appointments as well as tasks, find/filter on all event attributes, template
group insertion, 256 categories with multiple assignment etc. etc.). But
such complexity does come at a price - it's a huge application - and just as
a baseline, I had to duplicate virtually all the existing functionality in
DateBk before even adding all the new stuff as well. Also, some of
Pimlical's advanced functions won't be backwards compatible with DateBk - an
issue that may make it impractical for some users to utilize those features
initially.

So that's where it stands right now - at least you now know where this is
going - yes it'll probably still be several weeks before many more people
can get their hands on a copy to look at, but when time permits, I will
respond to any general questions on this forum regarding the functionality
and its rollout.

I know there are many people waiting hopefully that I would announce an
iPhone version for release, but most people know that was most unlikely -
there are very severe, almost insurmountablej, technical hurdles as well as
marketing issues to overcome with that device.

I am going to roll this out in the order which makes most sense from my
perspective - a Datebk desktop has been requested for many years and will be
useful to many users - perhaps even for some who have moved on to other
devices but primarily keep their calendars on a personal desktop (Pimlical
does not actually require that you have a Palm device). There are many
interesting hooks that will be available early on that will make that a lot
more practical than might appear on the surface right now too! More on that
later.

Have a good weekend - for me - just another weekend with 24 hours (well 36
since it's labor day<g>) of work ;)

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.

Hi CESDewar,</DIV>I am very willing to be a beta tester for you.I am a software engineer with experience in Linux, Windows so I will surely be able to do some investigation for you if needed.Best regards,Nelson----- Original Message -----From: CESDewar Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:58 pmSubject: [pdbk] New Things coming... a bit longTo: pimlicodatebk@...> Ok, it's probably still a bit premature to let you know what is > going on > here, but neither do I want any further delays to be perceived > as some kind > of game as that was never my intent when saying I was working on > some new > stuff.> > First off, there are a few people on this forum who have known > for several > weeks what I've been working on, but who have been kind enough > to honor my > requests not to mention it prematurely.> > I have been reading the speculation with some interest - of > course everyone > wants the world, and I hope my repeated assertions that this > would be a > relatively modest
 announcement were not entirely overlooked!> > I decided that after running with DateBk for some eleven years > (the first > version appeared in 1997), it was time to throw out the code > base and start > over completely from scratch - drawing on all the knowledge > acquired over > these past 11 years as to what people want. DateBk was also > inextricably > tied to the Palm OS platform, the PIM databases, and the need to > maintain > perfect compatibility with the native Palm PIM database structures.> > It was also clear to everyone that tying myself to any specific > platform for > the future would be a poor decision. I must get 20-30 emails a > day from > people asking about iPhone, RIM, Windows Mobile, Symbian etc, > desktop > versions, etc. But trying to address all platforms is not > exactly a trivial > proposition either to say the very least!> > So what I've been working on LOOKS like a Desktop version of > DateBk6 for > windows, and in fact that IS and will be the first thing
 to come > out from > all these efforts. It's got some way to go before it's ready for > general > release, and if I had my druthers, I would probably have waited > at least > another month before even announcing it, but then again I think > it may > achieve suitable stability pretty rapidly once the basic bugs > are out of the > way.> > If you look a bit more closely though, you will realize that > this is not > just a version of Datebk for windows, but rather a completely > new calendar > application with new concepts and a completely new code base > that shares > nothing with Datebk internally. Of course, key ideas in Datebk > are all > present, but may work somewhat differently. It is not practical > for me to > rewrite this application from scratch for each platform, or to > perform a > huge 'port' to a different environment, so the entire > application was > specifically designed and written to be portable across multiple > platforms. > How well this works, we'll find out soon
 enough - as soon as the > Windows > version looks in good shape and the design frozen, I will work > on the Mac > and Linux versions.> > Of course, I also want to see this on handhelds too - but that > will follow > the desktop version.> > Some handhelds are going to handle this better than others. The > iPhone is > probably the biggest problem right now with Windows Mobile, > Symbian and > Blackberry looking reasonable to work with. As for Palm, most > likely I will > look at what Palm does with these new Linux-based devices coming > down the > pike in 2009 (assuming they appear) - it would be a good time to > leave > DateBk6 alone, and switch to Pimlical as the solution - using > the native > Linux port as the basis for running in that environment.> > Obviously I have looked at all these other handhelds, and also > designed this > application with the specific knowledge that it may run in > environments with > small screens that pose issues for the design of the GUI. But > moving
 to such > platforms will clearly involve more work as well. But having a > new program > written from scratch with the foreknowledge that has to be done > makes a big > difference in tackling that task.> > The application is tentatively named Pimlical. It's not > available for > download and won't be for a while longer until some basic issues > are flushed > out with a small group of testers.> > I may be expanding the number of testers by a SMALL amount > shortly. There > will no doubt be a few users who want to see what I've been > working on, but > I really want to stay focussed with just those people who are > genuinely in a > position to test the application and accurately report issues > they find, > including doing some detective work to isolate the problems. > They must be > willing to send me a copy of their database to look at (so if > you are > paranoid about even letting me have access to your data, kindly > skip the > request as there is nothing more frustrating to have
 a problem > reported, but > no way to reproduce it without the customer's data that they are > unwilling > to provide). You will also need to install the very latest > version of the > Palm Desktop (V-6.2) which, btw, can be made to work with all > Palm devices > using OS 3.5 or later (it doesn't work out of the box, but I > have a program > that modifies the installation to get it to work just fine with > older/traditional Palm OS devices - I'll be releasing that > shortly). So if > this is something you have a huge urge to jump on - working with > the V-6.2 > desktop is worth installing. Yes, it's not perfect and raises > some issues, > but some of those issues will disappear with Pimlical, so it's > probably not > that big of a problem...> > And finally, I will still ask the testers to refrain from > posting any > detailed information on this or any other public forum. It's too > early to > include detailed comments about functionality, when the > functionality is > still not
 locked in fully, and subject to significant change. I > don't mind > some general comments appearing and will attempt to answer them, > but not any > specific details. Once we get past the initial testing and have > what I would > describe as a reasonable beta preview, it will be made > available. I am still > working on the pricing - remember that the sole reason I am > working on this > is to support my wildlife conservation efforts, and so I won't > be giving > this software away (someone already asked if I was going to > "give" this away > to all registered DateBk users - I replied that it was a tad > optimistic on a > user's part to think I spent the last nine months working night > and day to > come up with a piece of freeware ).> > Yes, a lot (but not all) of the issues in DateBk are addressed > in this new > application (more than one alarm, ability to set separate > timezones for > start/end of an event, events that span multiple days AND can > also repeat, > full
 orthogonality in all views vis-a-vis all functions, > drag/drop/stretch > support in all views, due dates on floating events, priority and > urgency on > appointments as well as tasks, find/filter on all event > attributes, template > group insertion, 256 categories with multiple assignment etc. > etc.). But > such complexity does come at a price - it's a huge application - > and just as > a baseline, I had to duplicate virtually all the existing > functionality in > DateBk before even adding all the new stuff as well. Also, some > of > Pimlical's advanced functions won't be backwards compatible with > DateBk - an > issue that may make it impractical for some users to utilize > those features > initially.> > So that's where it stands right now - at least you now know > where this is > going - yes it'll probably still be several weeks before many > more people > can get their hands on a copy to look at, but when time permits, > I will > respond to any general questions on this forum
 regarding the > functionality > and its rollout.> > I know there are many people waiting hopefully that I would > announce an > iPhone version for release, but most people know that was most > unlikely - > there are very severe, almost insurmountablej, technical hurdles > as well as > marketing issues to overcome with that device.> > I am going to roll this out in the order which makes most sense > from my > perspective - a Datebk desktop has been requested for many years > and will be > useful to many users - perhaps even for some who have moved on > to other > devices but primarily keep their calendars on a personal desktop > (Pimlical > does not actually require that you have a Palm device). There > are many > interesting hooks that will be available early on that will make > that a lot > more practical than might appear on the surface right now too! > More on that > later.> > Have a good weekend - for me - just another weekend with 24 > hours (well 36 > since it's labor day) of

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Emmett Ervin]

This is great news!! Thanks much.

-----Original Message-----
From: pimlicodatebk@... [mailto:pimlicodatebk@...]
On Behalf Of CESDewar
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:57 PM
To: pimlicodatebk@...
Subject: [pdbk] New Things coming... a bit long

Ok, it's probably still a bit premature to let you know what is going on
here, but neither do I want any further delays to be perceived as some kind
of game as that was never my intent when saying I was working on some new
stuff.

First off, there are a few people on this forum who have known for several
weeks what I've been working on, but who have been kind enough to honor my
requests not to mention it prematurely.

I have been reading the speculation with some interest - of course everyone
wants the world, and I hope my repeated assertions that this would be a
relatively modest announcement were not entirely overlooked!

I decided that after running with DateBk for some eleven years (the first
version appeared in 1997), it was time to throw out the code base and start
over completely from scratch - drawing on all the knowledge acquired over
these past 11 years as to what people want. DateBk was also inextricably
tied to the Palm OS platform, the PIM databases, and the need to maintain
perfect compatibility with the native Palm PIM database structures.

It was also clear to everyone that tying myself to any specific platform for

the future would be a poor decision. I must get 20-30 emails a day from
people asking about iPhone, RIM, Windows Mobile, Symbian etc, desktop
versions, etc. But trying to address all platforms is not exactly a trivial
proposition either to say the very least!

So what I've been working on LOOKS like a Desktop version of DateBk6 for
windows, and in fact that IS and will be the first thing to come out from
all these efforts. It's got some way to go before it's ready for general
release, and if I had my druthers, I would probably have waited at least
another month before even announcing it, but then again I think it may
achieve suitable stability pretty rapidly once the basic bugs are out of the

way.

If you look a bit more closely though, you will realize that this is not
just a version of Datebk for windows, but rather a completely new calendar
application with new concepts and a completely new code base that shares
nothing with Datebk internally. Of course, key ideas in Datebk are all
present, but may work somewhat differently. It is not practical for me to
rewrite this application from scratch for each platform, or to perform a
huge 'port' to a different environment, so the entire application was
specifically designed and written to be portable across multiple platforms.
How well this works, we'll find out soon enough - as soon as the Windows
version looks in good shape and the design frozen, I will work on the Mac
and Linux versions.

Of course, I also want to see this on handhelds too - but that will follow
the desktop version.

Some handhelds are going to handle this better than others. The iPhone is
probably the biggest problem right now with Windows Mobile, Symbian and
Blackberry looking reasonable to work with. As for Palm, most likely I will
look at what Palm does with these new Linux-based devices coming down the
pike in 2009 (assuming they appear) - it would be a good time to leave
DateBk6 alone, and switch to Pimlical as the solution - using the native
Linux port as the basis for running in that environment.

Obviously I have looked at all these other handhelds, and also designed this

application with the specific knowledge that it may run in environments with

small screens that pose issues for the design of the GUI. But moving to such

platforms will clearly involve more work as well. But having a new program
written from scratch with the foreknowledge that has to be done makes a big
difference in tackling that task.

The application is tentatively named Pimlical. It's not available for
download and won't be for a while longer until some basic issues are flushed

out with a small group of testers.

I may be expanding the number of testers by a SMALL amount shortly. There
will no doubt be a few users who want to see what I've been working on, but
I really want to stay focussed with just those people who are genuinely in a

position to test the application and accurately report issues they find,
including doing some detective work to isolate the problems. They must be
willing to send me a copy of their database to look at (so if you are
paranoid about even letting me have access to your data, kindly skip the
request as there is nothing more frustrating to have a problem reported, but

no way to reproduce it without the customer's data that they are unwilling
to provide). You will also need to install the very latest version of the
Palm Desktop (V-6.2) which, btw, can be made to work with all Palm devices
using OS 3.5 or later (it doesn't work out of the box, but I have a program
that modifies the installation to get it to work just fine with
older/traditional Palm OS devices - I'll be releasing that shortly). So if
this is something you have a huge urge to jump on - working with the V-6.2
desktop is worth installing. Yes, it's not perfect and raises some issues,
but some of those issues will disappear with Pimlical, so it's probably not
that big of a problem...

And finally, I will still ask the testers to refrain from posting any
detailed information on this or any other public forum. It's too early to
include detailed comments about functionality, when the functionality is
still not locked in fully, and subject to significant change. I don't mind
some general comments appearing and will attempt to answer them, but not any

specific details. Once we get past the initial testing and have what I would

describe as a reasonable beta preview, it will be made available. I am still

working on the pricing - remember that the sole reason I am working on this
is to support my wildlife conservation efforts, and so I won't be giving
this software away (someone already asked if I was going to "give" this away

to all registered DateBk users - I replied that it was a tad optimistic on a

user's part to think I spent the last nine months working night and day to
come up with a piece of freeware <g>).

Yes, a lot (but not all) of the issues in DateBk are addressed in this new
application (more than one alarm, ability to set separate timezones for
start/end of an event, events that span multiple days AND can also repeat,
full orthogonality in all views vis-a-vis all functions, drag/drop/stretch
support in all views, due dates on floating events, priority and urgency on
appointments as well as tasks, find/filter on all event attributes, template

group insertion, 256 categories with multiple assignment etc. etc.). But
such complexity does come at a price - it's a huge application - and just as

a baseline, I had to duplicate virtually all the existing functionality in
DateBk before even adding all the new stuff as well. Also, some of
Pimlical's advanced functions won't be backwards compatible with DateBk - an

issue that may make it impractical for some users to utilize those features
initially.

So that's where it stands right now - at least you now know where this is
going - yes it'll probably still be several weeks before many more people
can get their hands on a copy to look at, but when time permits, I will
respond to any general questions on this forum regarding the functionality
and its rollout.

I know there are many people waiting hopefully that I would announce an
iPhone version for release, but most people know that was most unlikely -
there are very severe, almost insurmountablej, technical hurdles as well as
marketing issues to overcome with that device.

I am going to roll this out in the order which makes most sense from my
perspective - a Datebk desktop has been requested for many years and will be

useful to many users - perhaps even for some who have moved on to other
devices but primarily keep their calendars on a personal desktop (Pimlical
does not actually require that you have a Palm device). There are many
interesting hooks that will be available early on that will make that a lot
more practical than might appear on the surface right now too! More on that
later.

Have a good weekend - for me - just another weekend with 24 hours (well 36
since it's labor day<g>) of work ;)

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.



 

[Howard Neil]

CESDewar wrote:

> So what I've been working on LOOKS like a Desktop version of DateBk6 for
> windows, and in fact that IS and will be the first thing to come out from
> all these efforts. It's got some way to go before it's ready for general
> release, and if I had my druthers, I would probably have waited at least
> another month before even announcing it, but then again I think it may
> achieve suitable stability pretty rapidly once the basic bugs are out of the
> way.


For me, that is fantastic news. I have just started up a new business
and need a good calendar program to organise things. I look at the Palm
desktop calendar and shake my head, MS Outlook is not much better. Lotus
Organiser is much better for features but clumsy. I keep looking at my
DateBk6 and think "if only this was on my desktop PC; if only".

Well, you have now made my mind up; I will wait patiently. The cherry on
the icing will be if it will syc to a mobile 'phone (symbian) as well as
my Palm but that is not absolutely essential.

Well done.

Regards

Howard Neil

[Roger Prokic-3]

Very cool CESD!  Good job!  I applaud you on the vision you have.  I applaud you on starting from scratch with the Datebk functionality and more planned.  

One question I have is being a new Blackberry user I am held hostage to Outlook for my desktop calendar app so it can sync to my blackberry.  Will I be stuck with Outlook until the time that a Blackberry Pimlical app is available?  Or will there be some way to use Pimlical desktop and sync with the Blackberry calendar?  You may not have the answers now.  But at least this will give you the concern to ponder from the Blackberry users that have been past Datebk addicts (and are awaiting Pimlical)!

Good job again!

Hope the gorillas are getting lots of TLC while you continue to work on Pimlical!!!

Roger
---
Roger Prokic
Baltimore, Maryland
-=[ Sent via BlackBerry 8820 by AT&T ]=-

-----Original Message-----
From: "CESDewar" <dewar@...>

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:57:23
To: <pimlicodatebk@...>
Subject: [pdbk] New Things coming... a bit long


Ok, it's probably still a bit premature to let you know what is going on
here, but neither do I want any further delays to be perceived as some kind
of game as that was never my intent when saying I was working on some new
stuff.

First off, there are a few people on this forum who have known for several
weeks what I've been working on, but who have been kind enough to honor my
requests not to mention it prematurely.

I have been reading the speculation with some interest - of course everyone
wants the world, and I hope my repeated assertions that this would be a
relatively modest announcement were not entirely overlooked!

I decided that after running with DateBk for some eleven years (the first
version appeared in 1997), it was time to throw out the code base and start
over completely from scratch - drawing on all the knowledge acquired over
these past 11 years as to what people want. DateBk was also inextricably
tied to the Palm OS platform, the PIM databases, and the need to maintain
perfect compatibility with the native Palm PIM database structures.

It was also clear to everyone that tying myself to any specific platform for
the future would be a poor decision. I must get 20-30 emails a day from
people asking about iPhone, RIM, Windows Mobile, Symbian etc, desktop
versions, etc. But trying to address all platforms is not exactly a trivial
proposition either to say the very least!

So what I've been working on LOOKS like a Desktop version of DateBk6 for
windows, and in fact that IS and will be the first thing to come out from
all these efforts. It's got some way to go before it's ready for general
release, and if I had my druthers, I would probably have waited at least
another month before even announcing it, but then again I think it may
achieve suitable stability pretty rapidly once the basic bugs are out of the
way.

If you look a bit more closely though, you will realize that this is not
just a version of Datebk for windows, but rather a completely new calendar
application with new concepts and a completely new code base that shares
nothing with Datebk internally. Of course, key ideas in Datebk are all
present, but may work somewhat differently. It is not practical for me to
rewrite this application from scratch for each platform, or to perform a
huge 'port' to a different environment, so the entire application was
specifically designed and written to be portable across multiple platforms.
How well this works, we'll find out soon enough - as soon as the Windows
version looks in good shape and the design frozen, I will work on the Mac
and Linux versions.

Of course, I also want to see this on handhelds too - but that will follow
the desktop version.

Some handhelds are going to handle this better than others. The iPhone is
probably the biggest problem right now with Windows Mobile, Symbian and
Blackberry looking reasonable to work with. As for Palm, most likely I will
look at what Palm does with these new Linux-based devices coming down the
pike in 2009 (assuming they appear) - it would be a good time to leave
DateBk6 alone, and switch to Pimlical as the solution - using the native
Linux port as the basis for running in that environment.

Obviously I have looked at all these other handhelds, and also designed this
application with the specific knowledge that it may run in environments with
small screens that pose issues for the design of the GUI. But moving to such
platforms will clearly involve more work as well. But having a new program
written from scratch with the foreknowledge that has to be done makes a big
difference in tackling that task.

The application is tentatively named Pimlical. It's not available for
download and won't be for a while longer until some basic issues are flushed
out with a small group of testers.

I may be expanding the number of testers by a SMALL amount shortly. There
will no doubt be a few users who want to see what I've been working on, but
I really want to stay focussed with just those people who are genuinely in a
position to test the application and accurately report issues they find,
including doing some detective work to isolate the problems. They must be
willing to send me a copy of their database to look at (so if you are
paranoid about even letting me have access to your data, kindly skip the
request as there is nothing more frustrating to have a problem reported, but
no way to reproduce it without the customer's data that they are unwilling
to provide). You will also need to install the very latest version of the
Palm Desktop (V-6.2) which, btw, can be made to work with all Palm devices
using OS 3.5 or later (it doesn't work out of the box, but I have a program
that modifies the installation to get it to work just fine with
older/traditional Palm OS devices - I'll be releasing that shortly). So if
this is something you have a huge urge to jump on - working with the V-6.2
desktop is worth installing. Yes, it's not perfect and raises some issues,
but some of those issues will disappear with Pimlical, so it's probably not
that big of a problem...

And finally, I will still ask the testers to refrain from posting any
detailed information on this or any other public forum. It's too early to
include detailed comments about functionality, when the functionality is
still not locked in fully, and subject to significant change. I don't mind
some general comments appearing and will attempt to answer them, but not any
specific details. Once we get past the initial testing and have what I would
describe as a reasonable beta preview, it will be made available. I am still
working on the pricing - remember that the sole reason I am working on this
is to support my wildlife conservation efforts, and so I won't be giving
this software away (someone already asked if I was going to "give" this away
to all registered DateBk users - I replied that it was a tad optimistic on a
user's part to think I spent the last nine months working night and day to
come up with a piece of freeware <g>).

Yes, a lot (but not all) of the issues in DateBk are addressed in this new
application (more than one alarm, ability to set separate timezones for
start/end of an event, events that span multiple days AND can also repeat,
full orthogonality in all views vis-a-vis all functions, drag/drop/stretch
support in all views, due dates on floating events, priority and urgency on
appointments as well as tasks, find/filter on all event attributes, template
group insertion, 256 categories with multiple assignment etc. etc.). But
such complexity does come at a price - it's a huge application - and just as
a baseline, I had to duplicate virtually all the existing functionality in
DateBk before even adding all the new stuff as well. Also, some of
Pimlical's advanced functions won't be backwards compatible with DateBk - an
issue that may make it impractical for some users to utilize those features
initially.

So that's where it stands right now - at least you now know where this is
going - yes it'll probably still be several weeks before many more people
can get their hands on a copy to look at, but when time permits, I will
respond to any general questions on this forum regarding the functionality
and its rollout.

I know there are many people waiting hopefully that I would announce an
iPhone version for release, but most people know that was most unlikely -
there are very severe, almost insurmountablej, technical hurdles as well as
marketing issues to overcome with that device.

I am going to roll this out in the order which makes most sense from my
perspective - a Datebk desktop has been requested for many years and will be
useful to many users - perhaps even for some who have moved on to other
devices but primarily keep their calendars on a personal desktop (Pimlical
does not actually require that you have a Palm device). There are many
interesting hooks that will be available early on that will make that a lot
more practical than might appear on the surface right now too! More on that
later.

Have a good weekend - for me - just another weekend with 24 hours (well 36
since it's labor day<g>) of work ;)

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.


------------------------------------

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-------------------------------------------
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DateBk4 FAQ: http://www.PimlicoSoftware.com/datebk4faq.htm
DateBk5 FAQ: http://www.pimlicosoftware.com/datebk5faq.htm
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DateBk Wiki: http://oldgods.net/cgi-bin/datebk_wiki

Neither Pimlico, the developer, nor the list owner is responsible for content.Yahoo! Groups Links

[Peter Shenkin]

On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 5:57 PM, CESDewar <dewar@...> wrote:
> So what I've been working on LOOKS like a Desktop version of DateBk6 for
> windows, and in fact that IS and will be the first thing to come out from
> all these efforts.

I hope it's fair to ask about features.

A desktop app is quite a different beast from a handheld app, it seems
to me, mainly because the existing desktop calendar apps are so
thoroughly integrated into their OS's or other parts of the same
suite. (Outlook; Palm Desktop; iCal with Address Book....)

iCal and Outlook support WebDAV/CalDAV publishing and subscribing.
Will Pimlical support these?

How about meeting-planning and automatic creation of calendar events
via email notification?

I wonder whether users of, say, Outlook are going to abandon the
Outlook calendar in favor of Pimlical; similarly for users of iCal.
And this includes users of DateBk6 on the Palm who sync with Outlook
and iCal and even the Palm Desktop.

Or, on the other hand, are you thinking of the desktop versions of
Pimlical as proofs-of-concept, rather than end products, with the
handheld apps as the ultimate goal?

-P.

[Ralph Gregory]

ok So how would you like your beta applicants to queue? I would be glad to help any way as a user with 4 seats of datebk5 and one of datebk 6 the thing we have been waiting for is a desktop version our shared calendar is dependant on categories and icons to distinguish who is doing what each day.otherwise I will just have to wait patiently..

[Larry Finch]

On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Ralph Gregory <newrgee@...> wrote:

> ok So how would you like your beta applicants to queue? I would be glad to
> help any way as a user with 4 seats of datebk5 and one of datebk 6 the thing
> we have been waiting for is a desktop version our shared calendar is
> dependant on categories and icons to distinguish who is doing what each
> day.otherwise I will just have to wait patiently..
>

I'm sure CESD will announce a beta when the time is right, but at the moment
it is an early Alpha. You would not want to use it will real data.

best,

Larry

--
Larry Finch

N 40° 53' 47"
W 74° 03' 56"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ralph Gregory]

well I'm still game and believe me I have had a lot of experience making sure data stays safe & intact while keeping winmobile & palm & desktop in sync over the last few years..so live data or copy data alpha software or beta software  I'm still  up for it :-)
--- In pimlicodatebk@..., "Larry Finch" <finches@...> wrote:

>
> On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Ralph Gregory <newrgee@...> wrote:
>
> > ok So how would you like your beta applicants to queue? I would be glad to
> > help any way as a user with 4 seats of datebk5 and one of datebk 6 the thing
> > we have been waiting for is a desktop version our shared calendar is
> > dependant on categories and icons to distinguish who is doing what each
> > day.otherwise I will just have to wait patiently..
> >
>
> I'm sure CESD will announce a beta when the time is right, but at the moment
> it is an early Alpha. You would not want to use it will real data.
>
> best,
>
> Larry
>
> --
> Larry Finch
>
> N 40° 53' 47"
> W 74° 03' 56"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Soh Kam Yung]

Thanks for the news update, CESD.

BTW, I think it is time to start an FAQ on "Pimlical", with the
following entry being the first one:

Q: Will "Pimlical" be available for the iPhone?
A: Not in the immediate future.  Quote from CESD's initial
announcement: "there are very severe, almost insurmountable, technical
hurdles as well as marketing issues to overcome with that device
[iPhone]."

--- In pimlicodatebk@..., "CESDewar" <dewar@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, it's probably still a bit premature to let you know what is
going on
> here, but neither do I want any further delays to be perceived as
some kind
> of game as that was never my intent when saying I was working on
some new
> stuff.
>
> [...]
>
> I know there are many people waiting hopefully that I would announce an
> iPhone version for release, but most people know that was most
unlikely -
> there are very severe, almost insurmountablej, technical hurdles as
well as
> marketing issues to overcome with that device.
>
> [...]

[JOSEPH LIM]

Yes!  yeeehoooow thanks and best wishes to your work ... excitedly looking forward to its initial release..!!   

Joseph Lim
Philippines


 


----- Original Message ----
From: CESDewar <dewar@...>
To: pimlicodatebk@...
Sent: Monday, 1 September 2008 05:57:23
Subject: [pdbk] New Things coming.... a bit long


Ok, it's probably still a bit premature to let you know what is going on
here, but neither do I want any further delays to be perceived as some kind
of game as that was never my intent when saying I was working on some new
stuff.

First off, there are a few people on this forum who have known for several
weeks what I've been working on, but who have been kind enough to honor my
requests not to mention it prematurely.

I have been reading the speculation with some interest - of course everyone
wants the world, and I hope my repeated assertions that this would be a
relatively modest announcement were not entirely overlooked!

I decided that after running with DateBk for some eleven years (the first
version appeared in 1997), it was time to throw out the code base and start
over completely from scratch - drawing on all the knowledge acquired over
these past 11 years as to what people want. DateBk was also inextricably
tied to the Palm OS platform, the PIM databases, and the need to maintain
perfect compatibility with the native Palm PIM database structures.

It was also clear to everyone that tying myself to any specific platform for
the future would be a poor decision. I must get 20-30 emails a day from
people asking about iPhone, RIM, Windows Mobile, Symbian etc, desktop
versions, etc. But trying to address all platforms is not exactly a trivial
proposition either to say the very least!

So what I've been working on LOOKS like a Desktop version of DateBk6 for
windows, and in fact that IS and will be the first thing to come out from
all these efforts. It's got some way to go before it's ready for general
release, and if I had my druthers, I would probably have waited at least
another month before even announcing it, but then again I think it may
achieve suitable stability pretty rapidly once the basic bugs are out of the
way.

If you look a bit more closely though, you will realize that this is not
just a version of Datebk for windows, but rather a completely new calendar
application with new concepts and a completely new code base that shares
nothing with Datebk internally. Of course, key ideas in Datebk are all
present, but may work somewhat differently. It is not practical for me to
rewrite this application from scratch for each platform, or to perform a
huge 'port' to a different environment, so the entire application was
specifically designed and written to be portable across multiple platforms.
How well this works, we'll find out soon enough - as soon as the Windows
version looks in good shape and the design frozen, I will work on the Mac
and Linux versions.

Of course, I also want to see this on handhelds too - but that will follow
the desktop version.

Some handhelds are going to handle this better than others. The iPhone is
probably the biggest problem right now with Windows Mobile, Symbian and
Blackberry looking reasonable to work with. As for Palm, most likely I will
look at what Palm does with these new Linux-based devices coming down the
pike in 2009 (assuming they appear) - it would be a good time to leave
DateBk6 alone, and switch to Pimlical as the solution - using the native
Linux port as the basis for running in that environment..

Obviously I have looked at all these other handhelds, and also designed this
application with the specific knowledge that it may run in environments with
small screens that pose issues for the design of the GUI. But moving to such
platforms will clearly involve more work as well. But having a new program
written from scratch with the foreknowledge that has to be done makes a big
difference in tackling that task.

The application is tentatively named Pimlical. It's not available for
download and won't be for a while longer until some basic issues are flushed
out with a small group of testers.

I may be expanding the number of testers by a SMALL amount shortly. There
will no doubt be a few users who want to see what I've been working on, but
I really want to stay focussed with just those people who are genuinely in a
position to test the application and accurately report issues they find,
including doing some detective work to isolate the problems. They must be
willing to send me a copy of their database to look at (so if you are
paranoid about even letting me have access to your data, kindly skip the
request as there is nothing more frustrating to have a problem reported, but
no way to reproduce it without the customer's data that they are unwilling
to provide). You will also need to install the very latest version of the
Palm Desktop (V-6.2) which, btw, can be made to work with all Palm devices
using OS 3.5 or later (it doesn't work out of the box, but I have a program
that modifies the installation to get it to work just fine with
older/traditional Palm OS devices - I'll be releasing that shortly). So if
this is something you have a huge urge to jump on - working with the V-6.2
desktop is worth installing. Yes, it's not perfect and raises some issues,
but some of those issues will disappear with Pimlical, so it's probably not
that big of a problem...

And finally, I will still ask the testers to refrain from posting any
detailed information on this or any other public forum. It's too early to
include detailed comments about functionality, when the functionality is
still not locked in fully, and subject to significant change. I don't mind
some general comments appearing and will attempt to answer them, but not any
specific details. Once we get past the initial testing and have what I would
describe as a reasonable beta preview, it will be made available. I am still
working on the pricing - remember that the sole reason I am working on this
is to support my wildlife conservation efforts, and so I won't be giving
this software away (someone already asked if I was going to "give" this away
to all registered DateBk users - I replied that it was a tad optimistic on a
user's part to think I spent the last nine months working night and day to
come up with a piece of freeware <g>).

Yes, a lot (but not all) of the issues in DateBk are addressed in this new
application (more than one alarm, ability to set separate timezones for
start/end of an event, events that span multiple days AND can also repeat,
full orthogonality in all views vis-a-vis all functions, drag/drop/stretch
support in all views, due dates on floating events, priority and urgency on
appointments as well as tasks, find/filter on all event attributes, template
group insertion, 256 categories with multiple assignment etc. etc.). But
such complexity does come at a price - it's a huge application - and just as
a baseline, I had to duplicate virtually all the existing functionality in
DateBk before even adding all the new stuff as well. Also, some of
Pimlical's advanced functions won't be backwards compatible with DateBk - an
issue that may make it impractical for some users to utilize those features
initially.

So that's where it stands right now - at least you now know where this is
going - yes it'll probably still be several weeks before many more people
can get their hands on a copy to look at, but when time permits, I will
respond to any general questions on this forum regarding the functionality
and its rollout.

I know there are many people waiting hopefully that I would announce an
iPhone version for release, but most people know that was most unlikely -
there are very severe, almost insurmountablej, technical hurdles as well as
marketing issues to overcome with that device.

I am going to roll this out in the order which makes most sense from my
perspective - a Datebk desktop has been requested for many years and will be
useful to many users - perhaps even for some who have moved on to other
devices but primarily keep their calendars on a personal desktop (Pimlical
does not actually require that you have a Palm device). There are many
interesting hooks that will be available early on that will make that a lot
more practical than might appear on the surface right now too! More on that
later.

Have a good weekend - for me - just another weekend with 24 hours (well 36
since it's labor day<g>) of work ;)

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.

 


      New Email addresses available on Yahoo!
Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[jayb472457]

Hallelujah! is all I can say. I have tried Palm Desktop, Outlook and a
program called Time & Chaos over the years. The last two worked best
for me but are NOT DateBk companions by a long stretch.  They synced
the basic calendar, tasks, notes/memos, categories, alarms, repeating
stuff quite reliably and really that was passably OK for me. But to
have a dedicated Windows desktop program for DateBk is a different
thing altogether. I will be most interested in how DateBk's views,
templates and icons are handled.

Thank you CESD--we appreciate your hard work and dedication.  

[CESDewar]

> On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Ralph Gregory <newrgee@...>
> wrote:
>> ok So how would you like your beta applicants to queue?

> I'm sure CESD will announce a beta when the time is right, but at the
> moment it is an early Alpha. You would not want to use it will real
> data.

Larry is correct - it would be premature to release it at this point to a
wider group - I need to make sure that data is reliably round-tripping and
that will likely take another week or so. A beta release may not be entirely
stable, but I want to be sure that the average user can use without any
major concerns for the integrity of their data.

I will post back later when the wider beta is available.

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.
.    .    .

[CESDewar]

Roger Prokic wrote:
> One question I have is being a new Blackberry user I am held hostage
> to Outlook for my desktop calendar app so it can sync to my
> blackberry.  Will I be stuck with Outlook until the time that a
> Blackberry Pimlical app is available?

Difficult to say - I do have a preliminary File I/O module for Outlook for
Pimlical -primarily for testing purposes, but (as is well known), the COM
model is very slow with Outlook and so it will use a slightly different
strategy to work around those performance issues (this problem had already
been anticipated though). So the answer is no - you would not likely have to
wait for a Blackberry Pimlical App - Pimlical is designed to work with all
kinds of different native calendar databases - it's not locked into any
particular database in any way at all...

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.
.    .    .

[CESDewar]

jayb472457 wrote:
> But to
> have a dedicated Windows desktop program for DateBk is a different
> thing altogether. I will be most interested in how DateBk's views,
> templates and icons are handled.

Remember this is not really a "dedicated"  windows desktop for DateBk. It's
just that the first incarnation of Pimlical will serve that function because
many people can make use of it. The File I/O Module for the Palm Desktop
knows about DateBk6's tagged note field and will read & write that field.
But there is actually no code outside of the File I/O MOdule that knows
about DateBk.

Icons are a problem of course - the "best" native icon size is different
from those that are used in DateBk6. The icon handling in Pimlical is not
locked into any specific size (they don't even have to be consistent in a
collection), but the ideal size is about 14x12 pixels.

The problem is the file format - obviously Pimlical is not going to be
shackled by trying to use a Palm handheld format for icons, but if/when a
conversion utility is available is another issue which I have not yet
invested a lot of time studying. I did duplicate the standard
Icons-DateBk.prc file icons, but there will be people with customized icon
collections who obviously would like to have the same icons appear.
Something like this would be handled though with an outside conversion
utility.

Saved Views are handled in a quite different way in Pimlical, but I think
for all practical purposes, the end result will be similar enough not to be
an issue.

Templates are stored in a separate database in Pimlical, but it's trivial to
just go to 1-jan-2020, use Select ALL and then drag them all in one step and
drop them on the template pane to create them as templates for Pimlical. To
use templates in Pimlical you just drag and drop them off the template pane
onto the calendar (Drag & Drop is used all over the place in Pimlical). Many
basic operations in Pimlical are similar to and as simple to use as Google
Calendar.

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.
.    .    .

[mfield3]

CESD,

This is the kind of thing I was hoping you were working on.  I'm very
excited to see the results.  I use Linux at home and Windows at work,
so I look forward to having both platforms covered with the same
desktop app.  I'm curious to see how (whether) you might handle
keeping data in sync among the various platforms.  I still use a
PalmOS device and have no specific plans to change, so that could be
the "hub" for data sync...but then you'd have to provide a means of
syncing Palm<==>Linux.  Right now I use Google Calendar on both
desktop platforms and the goosync service to sync my data from my
Palm to Google.

If you need someone with a cross-platform interest to help test, let
me know -- I'd love to help.  If not, I look forward to downloading
the first public beta (which I'll install on my work computer AND my
Linux machine at home and see if it works using Wine/Crossover
Office).

Marc

[Soh Kam Yung]

CESD,

Will there be an option to export data into a 'formatted' plain text
or XML format?

I am thinking about backups and the ability to access the data many
years in the future.

By 'formatted' plain text, I mean a text file with markup to indicate
the content.  Examples of these are remind
(http://www.roaringpenguin.com/products/remind) or Emacs's org-mode
(http://orgmode.org/).

Regards,
Kam-Yung

--- In pimlicodatebk@..., "CESDewar" <dewar@...> wrote:
> [...]
>
> The File I/O Module for the Palm Desktop
> knows about DateBk6's tagged note field and will read & write that
field.
> But there is actually no code outside of the File I/O MOdule that knows
> about DateBk.
>
> [...]

[ADO]

What is the URL for the update to Desktop version 6.2


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: CESDewar
  To: pimlicodatebk@...
  Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:57 PM
  Subject: [pdbk] New Things coming... a bit long


  Ok, it's probably still a bit premature to let you know what is going on
  here, but neither do I want any further delays to be perceived as some kind
  of game as that was never my intent when saying I was working on some new
  stuff.

  First off, there are a few people on this forum who have known for several
  weeks what I've been working on, but who have been kind enough to honor my
  requests not to mention it prematurely.

  I have been reading the speculation with some interest - of course everyone
  wants the world, and I hope my repeated assertions that this would be a
  relatively modest announcement were not entirely overlooked!

  I decided that after running with DateBk for some eleven years (the first
  version appeared in 1997), it was time to throw out the code base and start
  over completely from scratch - drawing on all the knowledge acquired over
  these past 11 years as to what people want. DateBk was also inextricably
  tied to the Palm OS platform, the PIM databases, and the need to maintain
  perfect compatibility with the native Palm PIM database structures.

  It was also clear to everyone that tying myself to any specific platform for
  the future would be a poor decision. I must get 20-30 emails a day from
  people asking about iPhone, RIM, Windows Mobile, Symbian etc, desktop
  versions, etc. But trying to address all platforms is not exactly a trivial
  proposition either to say the very least!

  So what I've been working on LOOKS like a Desktop version of DateBk6 for
  windows, and in fact that IS and will be the first thing to come out from
  all these efforts. It's got some way to go before it's ready for general
  release, and if I had my druthers, I would probably have waited at least
  another month before even announcing it, but then again I think it may
  achieve suitable stability pretty rapidly once the basic bugs are out of the
  way.

  If you look a bit more closely though, you will realize that this is not
  just a version of Datebk for windows, but rather a completely new calendar
  application with new concepts and a completely new code base that shares
  nothing with Datebk internally. Of course, key ideas in Datebk are all
  present, but may work somewhat differently. It is not practical for me to
  rewrite this application from scratch for each platform, or to perform a
  huge 'port' to a different environment, so the entire application was
  specifically designed and written to be portable across multiple platforms.
  How well this works, we'll find out soon enough - as soon as the Windows
  version looks in good shape and the design frozen, I will work on the Mac
  and Linux versions.

  Of course, I also want to see this on handhelds too - but that will follow
  the desktop version.

  Some handhelds are going to handle this better than others. The iPhone is
  probably the biggest problem right now with Windows Mobile, Symbian and
  Blackberry looking reasonable to work with. As for Palm, most likely I will
  look at what Palm does with these new Linux-based devices coming down the
  pike in 2009 (assuming they appear) - it would be a good time to leave
  DateBk6 alone, and switch to Pimlical as the solution - using the native
  Linux port as the basis for running in that environment.

  Obviously I have looked at all these other handhelds, and also designed this
  application with the specific knowledge that it may run in environments with
  small screens that pose issues for the design of the GUI. But moving to such
  platforms will clearly involve more work as well. But having a new program
  written from scratch with the foreknowledge that has to be done makes a big
  difference in tackling that task.

  The application is tentatively named Pimlical. It's not available for
  download and won't be for a while longer until some basic issues are flushed
  out with a small group of testers.

  I may be expanding the number of testers by a SMALL amount shortly. There
  will no doubt be a few users who want to see what I've been working on, but
  I really want to stay focussed with just those people who are genuinely in a
  position to test the application and accurately report issues they find,
  including doing some detective work to isolate the problems. They must be
  willing to send me a copy of their database to look at (so if you are
  paranoid about even letting me have access to your data, kindly skip the
  request as there is nothing more frustrating to have a problem reported, but
  no way to reproduce it without the customer's data that they are unwilling
  to provide). You will also need to install the very latest version of the
  Palm Desktop (V-6.2) which, btw, can be made to work with all Palm devices
  using OS 3.5 or later (it doesn't work out of the box, but I have a program
  that modifies the installation to get it to work just fine with
  older/traditional Palm OS devices - I'll be releasing that shortly). So if
  this is something you have a huge urge to jump on - working with the V-6.2
  desktop is worth installing. Yes, it's not perfect and raises some issues,
  but some of those issues will disappear with Pimlical, so it's probably not
  that big of a problem...

  And finally, I will still ask the testers to refrain from posting any
  detailed information on this or any other public forum. It's too early to
  include detailed comments about functionality, when the functionality is
  still not locked in fully, and subject to significant change. I don't mind
  some general comments appearing and will attempt to answer them, but not any
  specific details. Once we get past the initial testing and have what I would
  describe as a reasonable beta preview, it will be made available. I am still
  working on the pricing - remember that the sole reason I am working on this
  is to support my wildlife conservation efforts, and so I won't be giving
  this software away (someone already asked if I was going to "give" this away
  to all registered DateBk users - I replied that it was a tad optimistic on a
  user's part to think I spent the last nine months working night and day to
  come up with a piece of freeware <g>).

  Yes, a lot (but not all) of the issues in DateBk are addressed in this new
  application (more than one alarm, ability to set separate timezones for
  start/end of an event, events that span multiple days AND can also repeat,
  full orthogonality in all views vis-a-vis all functions, drag/drop/stretch
  support in all views, due dates on floating events, priority and urgency on
  appointments as well as tasks, find/filter on all event attributes, template
  group insertion, 256 categories with multiple assignment etc. etc.). But
  such complexity does come at a price - it's a huge application - and just as
  a baseline, I had to duplicate virtually all the existing functionality in
  DateBk before even adding all the new stuff as well. Also, some of
  Pimlical's advanced functions won't be backwards compatible with DateBk - an
  issue that may make it impractical for some users to utilize those features
  initially.

  So that's where it stands right now - at least you now know where this is
  going - yes it'll probably still be several weeks before many more people
  can get their hands on a copy to look at, but when time permits, I will
  respond to any general questions on this forum regarding the functionality
  and its rollout.

  I know there are many people waiting hopefully that I would announce an
  iPhone version for release, but most people know that was most unlikely -
  there are very severe, almost insurmountablej, technical hurdles as well as
  marketing issues to overcome with that device.

  I am going to roll this out in the order which makes most sense from my
  perspective - a Datebk desktop has been requested for many years and will be
  useful to many users - perhaps even for some who have moved on to other
  devices but primarily keep their calendars on a personal desktop (Pimlical
  does not actually require that you have a Palm device). There are many
  interesting hooks that will be available early on that will make that a lot
  more practical than might appear on the surface right now too! More on that
  later.

  Have a good weekend - for me - just another weekend with 24 hours (well 36
  since it's labor day<g>) of work ;)

  Cheers!
  CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.



   

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[Bert Latamore]

CESD,

Wow! You say this "isn't exciting"? I think it is hugely exciting, much more than I expected, and a product that makes a lot of sense. It certainly fits well with my personal progression away from Palm, and once it is released I will be one of the first customers.

Actually the only thing I don't like is the name. "Pimlical" doesn't tell people who aren't familiar with Datebk what the product is, and you are going to be trying to reach a huge potential audience on multiple platforms, many of whom have never owned a Palm, with this product. I am not the most brilliant person at naming products, but I will givethis some thought, and perhaps others here can also think some. I really don't see anything wrong with calling it "Datebk for Windows", and eventually "Datebk for Linux", etc. I realize that to you this is a very different prodcut because the code is all new, but to the vast majority of users and prospects, who will never see the code (and, like me, not understand it if we did) it really will be 'Datebk for Windows" because the functionality will all be there. And users buy software for the functionality, not because of the underlying code.

But wow! This is blow-away.

 Bert Latamore
Freelance Editorial Consultant



----- Original Message ----
From: CESDewar <dewar@...>
To: pimlicodatebk@...
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:57:23 PM
Subject: [pdbk] New Things coming... a bit long


Ok, it's probably still a bit premature to let you know what is going on
here, but neither do I want any further delays to be perceived as some kind
of game as that was never my intent when saying I was working on some new
stuff.

First off, there are a few people on this forum who have known for several
weeks what I've been working on, but who have been kind enough to honor my
requests not to mention it prematurely.

I have been reading the speculation with some interest - of course everyone
wants the world, and I hope my repeated assertions that this would be a
relatively modest announcement were not entirely overlooked!

I decided that after running with DateBk for some eleven years (the first
version appeared in 1997), it was time to throw out the code base and start
over completely from scratch - drawing on all the knowledge acquired over
these past 11 years as to what people want. DateBk was also inextricably
tied to the Palm OS platform, the PIM databases, and the need to maintain
perfect compatibility with the native Palm PIM database structures.

It was also clear to everyone that tying myself to any specific platform for
the future would be a poor decision. I must get 20-30 emails a day from
people asking about iPhone, RIM, Windows Mobile, Symbian etc, desktop
versions, etc. But trying to address all platforms is not exactly a trivial
proposition either to say the very least!

So what I've been working on LOOKS like a Desktop version of DateBk6 for
windows, and in fact that IS and will be the first thing to come out from
all these efforts. It's got some way to go before it's ready for general
release, and if I had my druthers, I would probably have waited at least
another month before even announcing it, but then again I think it may
achieve suitable stability pretty rapidly once the basic bugs are out of the
way.

If you look a bit more closely though, you will realize that this is not
just a version of Datebk for windows, but rather a completely new calendar
application with new concepts and a completely new code base that shares
nothing with Datebk internally. Of course, key ideas in Datebk are all
present, but may work somewhat differently. It is not practical for me to
rewrite this application from scratch for each platform, or to perform a
huge 'port' to a different environment, so the entire application was
specifically designed and written to be portable across multiple platforms.
How well this works, we'll find out soon enough - as soon as the Windows
version looks in good shape and the design frozen, I will work on the Mac
and Linux versions.

Of course, I also want to see this on handhelds too - but that will follow
the desktop version.

Some handhelds are going to handle this better than others. The iPhone is
probably the biggest problem right now with Windows Mobile, Symbian and
Blackberry looking reasonable to work with. As for Palm, most likely I will
look at what Palm does with these new Linux-based devices coming down the
pike in 2009 (assuming they appear) - it would be a good time to leave
DateBk6 alone, and switch to Pimlical as the solution - using the native
Linux port as the basis for running in that environment.

Obviously I have looked at all these other handhelds, and also designed this
application with the specific knowledge that it may run in environments with
small screens that pose issues for the design of the GUI. But moving to such
platforms will clearly involve more work as well. But having a new program
written from scratch with the foreknowledge that has to be done makes a big
difference in tackling that task.

The application is tentatively named Pimlical. It's not available for
download and won't be for a while longer until some basic issues are flushed
out with a small group of testers.

I may be expanding the number of testers by a SMALL amount shortly. There
will no doubt be a few users who want to see what I've been working on, but
I really want to stay focussed with just those people who are genuinely in a
position to test the application and accurately report issues they find,
including doing some detective work to isolate the problems. They must be
willing to send me a copy of their database to look at (so if you are
paranoid about even letting me have access to your data, kindly skip the
request as there is nothing more frustrating to have a problem reported, but
no way to reproduce it without the customer's data that they are unwilling
to provide). You will also need to install the very latest version of the
Palm Desktop (V-6.2) which, btw, can be made to work with all Palm devices
using OS 3.5 or later (it doesn't work out of the box, but I have a program
that modifies the installation to get it to work just fine with
older/traditional Palm OS devices - I'll be releasing that shortly). So if
this is something you have a huge urge to jump on - working with the V-6.2
desktop is worth installing. Yes, it's not perfect and raises some issues,
but some of those issues will disappear with Pimlical, so it's probably not
that big of a problem...

And finally, I will still ask the testers to refrain from posting any
detailed information on this or any other public forum. It's too early to
include detailed comments about functionality, when the functionality is
still not locked in fully, and subject to significant change. I don't mind
some general comments appearing and will attempt to answer them, but not any
specific details. Once we get past the initial testing and have what I would
describe as a reasonable beta preview, it will be made available. I am still
working on the pricing - remember that the sole reason I am working on this
is to support my wildlife conservation efforts, and so I won't be giving
this software away (someone already asked if I was going to "give" this away
to all registered DateBk users - I replied that it was a tad optimistic on a
user's part to think I spent the last nine months working night and day to
come up with a piece of freeware <g>).

Yes, a lot (but not all) of the issues in DateBk are addressed in this new
application (more than one alarm, ability to set separate timezones for
start/end of an event, events that span multiple days AND can also repeat,
full orthogonality in all views vis-a-vis all functions, drag/drop/stretch
support in all views, due dates on floating events, priority and urgency on
appointments as well as tasks, find/filter on all event attributes, template
group insertion, 256 categories with multiple assignment etc. etc.). But
such complexity does come at a price - it's a huge application - and just as
a baseline, I had to duplicate virtually all the existing functionality in
DateBk before even adding all the new stuff as well. Also, some of
Pimlical's advanced functions won't be backwards compatible with DateBk - an
issue that may make it impractical for some users to utilize those features
initially.

So that's where it stands right now - at least you now know where this is
going - yes it'll probably still be several weeks before many more people
can get their hands on a copy to look at, but when time permits, I will
respond to any general questions on this forum regarding the functionality
and its rollout.

I know there are many people waiting hopefully that I would announce an
iPhone version for release, but most people know that was most unlikely -
there are very severe, almost insurmountablej, technical hurdles as well as
marketing issues to overcome with that device.

I am going to roll this out in the order which makes most sense from my
perspective - a Datebk desktop has been requested for many years and will be
useful to many users - perhaps even for some who have moved on to other
devices but primarily keep their calendars on a personal desktop (Pimlical
does not actually require that you have a Palm device). There are many
interesting hooks that will be available early on that will make that a lot
more practical than might appear on the surface right now too! More on that
later.

Have a good weekend - for me - just another weekend with 24 hours (well 36
since it's labor day<g>) of work ;)

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.

   

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[Bert Latamore]

CESD,

From my point of view at least icons would be nice (I certainly miss them in the desktop version of Shadow) but not vital. What I think will be vital to a lot of people is being able to accept and generate meeting invitations sent via email in Outlook's invitation format. For instance, I have several clients who use Outlook as their standard calendar, and they send me invitations to teleconferences via Outlook. Since I do not use Outlook or even have it on my UX, I have to fire up one of my other computers just to accept it and read it and then hand-copy it into Datebk on my Palm. I don't want to make this sound arduous or like a deal breaker for me personally; I only have a few meetings a month like this. But there certianly are people out there who have large numbers of meetings and who need to both accept and generate invitations in a standard format, and like it or not (and I am certainly not in love with this fact) "standard format" means Microsoft,
 because Outlook is the dominant calendar format in business.

 Bert Latamore
Freelance Editorial Consultant



----- Original Message ----
From: CESDewar <dewar@...>
To: pimlicodatebk@...
Sent: Monday, September 1, 2008 12:36:09 AM
Subject: Re: [pdbk] Re: New Things coming... a bit long


jayb472457 wrote:
> But to
> have a dedicated Windows desktop program for DateBk is a different
> thing altogether. I will be most interested in how DateBk's views,
> templates and icons are handled.

Remember this is not really a "dedicated"  windows desktop for DateBk. It's
just that the first incarnation of Pimlical will serve that function because
many people can make use of it. The File I/O Module for the Palm Desktop
knows about DateBk6's tagged note field and will read & write that field.
But there is actually no code outside of the File I/O MOdule that knows
about DateBk.

Icons are a problem of course - the "best" native icon size is different
from those that are used in DateBk6. The icon handling in Pimlical is not
locked into any specific size (they don't even have to be consistent in a
collection), but the ideal size is about 14x12 pixels.

The problem is the file format - obviously Pimlical is not going to be
shackled by trying to use a Palm handheld format for icons, but if/when a
conversion utility is available is another issue which I have not yet
invested a lot of time studying. I did duplicate the standard
Icons-DateBk. prc file icons, but there will be people with customized icon
collections who obviously would like to have the same icons appear.
Something like this would be handled though with an outside conversion
utility.

Saved Views are handled in a quite different way in Pimlical, but I think
for all practical purposes, the end result will be similar enough not to be
an issue.

Templates are stored in a separate database in Pimlical, but it's trivial to
just go to 1-jan-2020, use Select ALL and then drag them all in one step and
drop them on the template pane to create them as templates for Pimlical. To
use templates in Pimlical you just drag and drop them off the template pane
onto the calendar (Drag & Drop is used all over the place in Pimlical). Many
basic operations in Pimlical are similar to and as simple to use as Google
Calendar.

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.
.    .    .

   

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