New home for downloading language packs

[Marcus Lange-2]

Hi all,

from time to time there is the question how to download language packs.
The normal installation files are quite easily available on the download
page. But how to find the langpacks?

The power users might be satisfied when they the hint to go to a mirror
server but the normal user could be lost with this.

So, I've created a download website only for these files:

http://download.openoffice.org/langpack.html

On the entry page (http://download.openoffice.org) there is also a link
to this website on the right hand side.

The language packs for the more often released Dev Builds will remain
unchanged and are still accessible on:
http://download.openoffice.org/next/other.html

Happy installing. :-)

Best regards

Marcus


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[Rafaella Braconi]

Hi Marcus,

On 10/15/09 14:41, Marcus Lange wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> from time to time there is the question how to download language
> packs. The normal installation files are quite easily available on the
> download page. But how to find the langpacks?
>
> The power users might be satisfied when they the hint to go to a
> mirror server but the normal user could be lost with this.
>
> So, I've created a download website only for these files:
>
> http://download.openoffice.org/langpack.html

this is really great. However, we do have much more languages than the
ones listed there. For example, for 3.1 the language packs released -
according to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease31 - are:
de af ar as-IN be-BY bg bn br brx bs ca cs cy da dgo dz el es en-GB
en-US en-ZA eo et eu fa fi fr ga gl gu gu-IN he hi-IN hr hu id it ja ka
kk km kn-IN ko kok ks ku lt mai mk ml-IN mn mni mr-IN my nb ne nl nn nr
ns oc or-IN pa-IN pl pt pt-BR ru rw sa-IN sat sd sh sk sl sr ss st sv
sw-TZ ta ta-IN te-IN tg th ti-ER tn tr ts uk ur-IN uz ve vi xh zh-CN
zh-TW zu

Thanks,
Rafaella

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[Joost Andrae]

Hi Rafaella,

we're talking about releases that officially finished the release
process (release QA). The other language packs are release candidates only.

Kind regards, Joost


> this is really great. However, we do have much more languages than the
> ones listed there. For example, for 3.1 the language packs released -
> according to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease31 - are:
> de af ar as-IN be-BY bg bn br brx bs ca cs cy da dgo dz el es en-GB
> en-US en-ZA eo et eu fa fi fr ga gl gu gu-IN he hi-IN hr hu id it ja ka
> kk km kn-IN ko kok ks ku lt mai mk ml-IN mn mni mr-IN my nb ne nl nn nr
> ns oc or-IN pa-IN pl pt pt-BR ru rw sa-IN sat sd sh sk sl sr ss st sv
> sw-TZ ta ta-IN te-IN tg th ti-ER tn tr ts uk ur-IN uz ve vi xh zh-CN
> zh-TW zu

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[Marcus Lange-2]

Hi Rafaella,

yes, much more were built but only a few were tested and approved for
release. Only these can be taken into account.

It's up to the native lang teams to test also language packs if they
want to make them available for the endusers. :-)

Best regards

Marcus



Rafaella Braconi wrote:

> Hi Marcus,
>
> On 10/15/09 14:41, Marcus Lange wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> from time to time there is the question how to download language
>> packs. The normal installation files are quite easily available on the
>> download page. But how to find the langpacks?
>>
>> The power users might be satisfied when they the hint to go to a
>> mirror server but the normal user could be lost with this.
>>
>> So, I've created a download website only for these files:
>>
>> http://download.openoffice.org/langpack.html
>
> this is really great. However, we do have much more languages than the
> ones listed there. For example, for 3.1 the language packs released -
> according to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease31 - are:
> de af ar as-IN be-BY bg bn br brx bs ca cs cy da dgo dz el es en-GB
> en-US en-ZA eo et eu fa fi fr ga gl gu gu-IN he hi-IN hr hu id it ja ka
> kk km kn-IN ko kok ks ku lt mai mk ml-IN mn mni mr-IN my nb ne nl nn nr
> ns oc or-IN pa-IN pl pt pt-BR ru rw sa-IN sat sd sh sk sl sr ss st sv
> sw-TZ ta ta-IN te-IN tg th ti-ER tn tr ts uk ur-IN uz ve vi xh zh-CN
> zh-TW zu
>
> Thanks,
> Rafaella

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[Uwe Fischer]

On 10/15/09 14:41, Marcus Lange wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> from time to time there is the question how to download language packs.
> The normal installation files are quite easily available on the download
> page. But how to find the langpacks?
>
> The power users might be satisfied when they the hint to go to a mirror
> server but the normal user could be lost with this.
>
> So, I've created a download website only for these files:
>
> http://download.openoffice.org/langpack.html
>
> On the entry page (http://download.openoffice.org) there is also a link
> to this website on the right hand side.
>
> The language packs for the more often released Dev Builds will remain
> unchanged and are still accessible on:
> http://download.openoffice.org/next/other.html
>
> Happy installing. :-)
>
> Best regards
>
> Marcus

thank you, Marcus

I've updated the Wiki page at
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Adding_More_Languages#To_Add_More_UI_Languages

Uwe
--
   uwe.fischer@...  -  Technical Writer
   StarOffice - Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Hamburg, Germany
   http://documentation.openoffice.org/
   http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation
   http://blogs.sun.com/oootnt
   http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum

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[Christian Lohmaier-2]

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Marcus Lange <Marcus.Lange@...> wrote:
> Hi Rafaella,
>
> yes, much more were built but only a few were tested and approved for
> release. Only these can be taken into account.

That is very unfortunate - one of the reasons for using language packs
is that there is no proper QA and people at first don't find their
NL-Version and download the en-US one. Then people tell "doesn't
matter, just download and install the small languagepack" and then
again people cannot find it.

> It's up to the native lang teams to test also language packs if they want to
> make them available for the endusers. :-)

Don't agree with the smiley here.
You created the page because only "power users" are aware of mirrors.
But now you're giving the argument that you need to be power user to
use languagepacks. How does a non-power-user know about that process
when it is nowhere mentioned on the page?

At least add a prominent sentence like "If your language is not
listed, then have a look at rc directory on extended mirrors. It will
be only listed here when it has been approved by the corresponding
native-lang projects (link to the process description)

After all, those projects who are doing qa, mainly do this on the full
versions - and users of those languages are likely to download the
localized version first and are looking for the less prominent
languages as an addition.

ciao
Christian

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[Marcus Lange-2]

Christian Lohmaier wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Marcus Lange <Marcus.Lange@...> wrote:

Hi Christian,

>> yes, much more were built but only a few were tested and approved for
>> release. Only these can be taken into account.
>
> That is very unfortunate - one of the reasons for using language packs
> is that there is no proper QA and people at first don't find their
> NL-Version and download the en-US one. Then people tell "doesn't
> matter, just download and install the small languagepack" and then
> again people cannot find it.

if there wouldn't be a QA for langpacks, then they wouldn't get
released. Of course not every NL community is testing all files but fact
is that they get tested and released in general.

However, using langpacks because there is no QA cannot be correct. ;-)

>> It's up to the native lang teams to test also language packs if they want to
>> make them available for the endusers. :-)
>
> Don't agree with the smiley here.
> You created the page because only "power users" are aware of mirrors.
> But now you're giving the argument that you need to be power user to
> use languagepacks. How does a non-power-user know about that process
> when it is nowhere mentioned on the page?

When you are able to install the full package, IMHO you are also able to
install a langpack.

> At least add a prominent sentence like "If your language is not
> listed, then have a look at rc directory on extended mirrors. It will
> be only listed here when it has been approved by the corresponding
> native-lang projects (link to the process description)

This website is about released versions. I don't want to mixup with not
released versions; even when a RC is close to it.

We should think of a different way to go.

> After all, those projects who are doing qa, mainly do this on the full
> versions - and users of those languages are likely to download the
> localized version first and are looking for the less prominent
> languages as an addition.

I think so, too.

Best regards

Marcus


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[sophie-21]

Resent with the good adress and to l10n@ also, sorry.
Hi Bernard,
Bernard Marcelly wrote:

> Hi,
> IMHO translation work is probably too cautious, and this hinders usage
> of OpenOffice.org.
>
> Take swedish (sv) or spanish (es) languages :
> - There is no full package available for 3.1.1, only version 3.1.0.
> - The langpacks for 3.1.1 have not been released.
> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2. So power users can install
> OOo 3.1.1 in these languages, and be happy.
>
> Take italian (it) language :
> - Full packages are released for 3.1.1
> - Langpacks for 3.1.1 are *not* released.
> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2.
> I don't understand why the full package is released but not the langpack.
>
> I don't understand why a langpack in RC2 stays unreleased.
> RC2 means that it seems good enough for public tests. If there are
> some strings not yet translated, or badly translated, this does not
> prevent from using OpenOffice.org as a whole. If a user does not
> master one of the published languages, it is better than nothing. And
> then users of this language will find and report residual errors.

This is not a matter of strings not translated, but of the stability of
the version as Joost mentioned.

Releasing or not releasing as stable has always been a difficult choice.
User that faces a not fully functional version or version that crashes
may never come back to OOo, however if you don't release the version,
you will miss testers and their feedback.

We have already seen language specific bugs and for that have decided
that a version or language pack that is not tested should not become
public.  OOo has a  QA process even for localized version, this what we
have agreed on several times ago.

I've offered my help to each l10n team to help them in this process, it
is still valid my time is still dedicated to these teams because it will
give more visibility to their versions if they are on the main network,
but also, and more important to my eyes, to their teams and the work
they have done.

Kind regards
Sophie

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[Ain Vagula]

It doesnt matter at all. I have resources to distribute my native
language version by myself. I dont have resources to follow this
insane QA prodedure. Only a bit pity that all users who visit
Openoffice.org main website will have a false imagination that there
is no oo.o version in particular language.

ain

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 22:06, Sophie <sgautier.ooo@...> wrote:

> Resent with the good adress and to l10n@ also, sorry.
> Hi Bernard,
> Bernard Marcelly wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> IMHO translation work is probably too cautious, and this hinders usage of
>> OpenOffice.org.
>>
>> Take swedish (sv) or spanish (es) languages :
>> - There is no full package available for 3.1.1, only version 3.1.0.
>> - The langpacks for 3.1.1 have not been released.
>> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2. So power users can install OOo
>> 3.1.1 in these languages, and be happy.
>>
>> Take italian (it) language :
>> - Full packages are released for 3.1.1
>> - Langpacks for 3.1.1 are *not* released.
>> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2.
>> I don't understand why the full package is released but not the langpack.
>>
>> I don't understand why a langpack in RC2 stays unreleased.
>> RC2 means that it seems good enough for public tests. If there are some
>> strings not yet translated, or badly translated, this does not prevent from
>> using OpenOffice.org as a whole. If a user does not master one of the
>> published languages, it is better than nothing. And then users of this
>> language will find and report residual errors.
>
> This is not a matter of strings not translated, but of the stability of the
> version as Joost mentioned.
>
> Releasing or not releasing as stable has always been a difficult choice.
> User that faces a not fully functional version or version that crashes may
> never come back to OOo, however if you don't release the version, you will
> miss testers and their feedback.
>
> We have already seen language specific bugs and for that have decided that a
> version or language pack that is not tested should not become public.  OOo
> has a  QA process even for localized version, this what we have agreed on
> several times ago.
>
> I've offered my help to each l10n team to help them in this process, it is
> still valid my time is still dedicated to these teams because it will give
> more visibility to their versions if they are on the main network, but also,
> and more important to my eyes, to their teams and the work they have done.
>
> Kind regards
> Sophie
>
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[Mechtilde Stehmann-2]

Hello,

Ain Vagula schrieb:
> It doesnt matter at all. I have resources to distribute my native
> language version by myself. I dont have resources to follow this
> insane QA prodedure. Only a bit pity that all users who visit
> Openoffice.org main website will have a false imagination that there
> is no oo.o version in particular language.

IMO it is very easy.

The l10n leead decide whether they want to release there national
version or not.

(S)He decide whether the user can install and works with it or not.

The l10n lead is resposible about the quality of the national version
compared with the other ones.

Kind regards

Mechtilde


--
Dipl. Ing. Mechtilde Stehmann
## http://de.openoffice.org
## Ansprechpartnerin für die deutschsprachige QA
## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris
## Meine Seite http://www.mechtilde.de
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[Ain Vagula]

ie. this fine download page would have a sense when it lists all NL
projects (including official mirrors for NL versions) and points to
their download pages.
It is not fair at all to ignore availability of NL version of oo.o to
this short lists because of some language dependent issues - what do
you propose? To use en-us version because NL version has issues?
Excuse me, this sucks.

ain

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 23:24, Ain Vagula <avagula@...> wrote:

> It doesnt matter at all. I have resources to distribute my native
> language version by myself. I dont have resources to follow this
> insane QA prodedure. Only a bit pity that all users who visit
> Openoffice.org main website will have a false imagination that there
> is no oo.o version in particular language.
>
> ain
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 22:06, Sophie <sgautier.ooo@...> wrote:
>> Resent with the good adress and to l10n@ also, sorry.
>> Hi Bernard,
>> Bernard Marcelly wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> IMHO translation work is probably too cautious, and this hinders usage of
>>> OpenOffice.org.
>>>
>>> Take swedish (sv) or spanish (es) languages :
>>> - There is no full package available for 3.1.1, only version 3.1.0.
>>> - The langpacks for 3.1.1 have not been released.
>>> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2. So power users can install OOo
>>> 3.1.1 in these languages, and be happy.
>>>
>>> Take italian (it) language :
>>> - Full packages are released for 3.1.1
>>> - Langpacks for 3.1.1 are *not* released.
>>> - But langpacks are available as 3.1.1RC2.
>>> I don't understand why the full package is released but not the langpack.
>>>
>>> I don't understand why a langpack in RC2 stays unreleased.
>>> RC2 means that it seems good enough for public tests. If there are some
>>> strings not yet translated, or badly translated, this does not prevent from
>>> using OpenOffice.org as a whole. If a user does not master one of the
>>> published languages, it is better than nothing. And then users of this
>>> language will find and report residual errors.
>>
>> This is not a matter of strings not translated, but of the stability of the
>> version as Joost mentioned.
>>
>> Releasing or not releasing as stable has always been a difficult choice.
>> User that faces a not fully functional version or version that crashes may
>> never come back to OOo, however if you don't release the version, you will
>> miss testers and their feedback.
>>
>> We have already seen language specific bugs and for that have decided that a
>> version or language pack that is not tested should not become public.  OOo
>> has a  QA process even for localized version, this what we have agreed on
>> several times ago.
>>
>> I've offered my help to each l10n team to help them in this process, it is
>> still valid my time is still dedicated to these teams because it will give
>> more visibility to their versions if they are on the main network, but also,
>> and more important to my eyes, to their teams and the work they have done.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Sophie
>>
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>>
>

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[Ain Vagula]

So hard to understand? I know my NL version has issues, too serious,
not depending on me. Why the heck should I follow the procedure? I
just want that availabilility of my version is visible on oo.o main
site? I dont want to lie. There are issues. But a version is
available, good for 99.99% of users. But everyone says to me, that my
NL version is not available via oo.o main website.

ain

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 23:32, Mechtilde <ooo@...> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Ain Vagula schrieb:
>> It doesnt matter at all. I have resources to distribute my native
>> language version by myself. I dont have resources to follow this
>> insane QA prodedure. Only a bit pity that all users who visit
>> Openoffice.org main website will have a false imagination that there
>> is no oo.o version in particular language.
>
> IMO it is very easy.
>
> The l10n leead decide whether they want to release there national
> version or not.
>
> (S)He decide whether the user can install and works with it or not.
>
> The l10n lead is resposible about the quality of the national version
> compared with the other ones.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Mechtilde
>
>
> --
> Dipl. Ing. Mechtilde Stehmann
> ## http://de.openoffice.org
> ## Ansprechpartnerin für die deutschsprachige QA
> ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris
> ## Meine Seite http://www.mechtilde.de
> ## PGP encryption welcome! Key-ID: 0x53B3892B
>
>
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[Mechtilde Stehmann-2]

Hello Ain,

Ain Vagula schrieb:
> So hard to understand? I know my NL version has issues, too serious,
> not depending on me.

Are these issues different to the ones in the other NL versions? Are
they specific for the ee version?

Why the heck should I follow the procedure? I
> just want that availabilility of my version is visible on oo.o main
> site? I dont want to lie. There are issues. But a version is
> available, good for 99.99% of users. But everyone says to me, that my
> NL version is not available via oo.o main website.
>

Otherewise you are the person who decide and is responsible about your
NL version whether it can be released or not.

Or are there too many text untranslated?

If you decide it is good enough to release this is your decision.

Special problems can also be discussed at #ooonlc at irc.freenode.net

Kind regards


Mechtilde

--
Dipl. Ing. Mechtilde Stehmann
## http://de.openoffice.org
## Ansprechpartnerin für die deutschsprachige QA
## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris
## Meine Seite http://www.mechtilde.de
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[Ain Vagula]

Dear coworker, whatever I ment:
When I translate or localize gnumeric or koffice, the localized
version is always available to all users 'as is' via repositories. Why
should oo.o make a difference, I mean to follow some formal procedures
without any real sense? Isnt that enough that translations are
submitted and possible issues are filed via IZ?

ain

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 23:54, Mechtilde <ooo@...> wrote:

> Hello Ain,
>
> Ain Vagula schrieb:
>> So hard to understand? I know my NL version has issues, too serious,
>> not depending on me.
>
> Are these issues different to the ones in the other NL versions? Are
> they specific for the ee version?
>
> Why the heck should I follow the procedure? I
>> just want that availabilility of my version is visible on oo.o main
>> site? I dont want to lie. There are issues. But a version is
>> available, good for 99.99% of users. But everyone says to me, that my
>> NL version is not available via oo.o main website.
>>
>
> Otherewise you are the person who decide and is responsible about your
> NL version whether it can be released or not.
>
> Or are there too many text untranslated?
>
> If you decide it is good enough to release this is your decision.
>
> Special problems can also be discussed at #ooonlc at irc.freenode.net
>
> Kind regards
>
>
> Mechtilde
>
> --
> Dipl. Ing. Mechtilde Stehmann
> ## http://de.openoffice.org
> ## Ansprechpartnerin für die deutschsprachige QA
> ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris
> ## Meine Seite http://www.mechtilde.de
> ## PGP encryption welcome! Key-ID: 0x53B3892B
>
>
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[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Ain,

I think you're being a little too harsh here...

First, I think that all OOo languages are available through source-code
repositories, or am I wrong? I've been using Lithuanian version of OOo
on Linux long before I found out why it's not being officially
distributed through the OOo page.

Second, that procedure is not really so insane. The only inconvenient
part in it is to find at least one tester for each platform you want to
release, who can devote an hour or so for those formal tests (which are
pretty simple). While this can prove problematic, I'm sure there is at
least one platform you can test yourself on. Furthermore, the testers
don't necessarily have to pass all tests - it's up to you to decide
whether certain bugs are OK for a release or not. Thus, if you know your
localization has a problem X, and you still want to release it, that's
perfectly fine. This testing procedure is made to prevent you from
distributing bugs you don't know about rather than to ensure that your
localization is 100% perfect.



Now, about those untested builds... I think we had a discussion with
Sophie and Rafaella before (perhaps on IRC) about making them more
visible. Perhaps we just need to revive this idea. I think I suggested
to make them available, but to clearly mark them as untested back then.
There are several to do that. For example, we could have an "untested
releases" page, and link to if from the main download page, or so...

Rimas



2009.10.17 00:02, Ain Vagula rašė:

> Dear coworker, whatever I ment:
> When I translate or localize gnumeric or koffice, the localized
> version is always available to all users 'as is' via repositories. Why
> should oo.o make a difference, I mean to follow some formal procedures
> without any real sense? Isnt that enough that translations are
> submitted and possible issues are filed via IZ?
>
> ain
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 23:54, Mechtilde <ooo@...> wrote:
>  
>> Hello Ain,
>>
>> Ain Vagula schrieb:
>>    
>>> So hard to understand? I know my NL version has issues, too serious,
>>> not depending on me.
>>>      
>> Are these issues different to the ones in the other NL versions? Are
>> they specific for the ee version?
>>
>> Why the heck should I follow the procedure? I
>>    
>>> just want that availabilility of my version is visible on oo.o main
>>> site? I dont want to lie. There are issues. But a version is
>>> available, good for 99.99% of users. But everyone says to me, that my
>>> NL version is not available via oo.o main website.
>>>
>>>      
>> Otherewise you are the person who decide and is responsible about your
>> NL version whether it can be released or not.
>>
>> Or are there too many text untranslated?
>>
>> If you decide it is good enough to release this is your decision.
>>
>> Special problems can also be discussed at #ooonlc at irc.freenode.net
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>> Mechtilde
>>    

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[Martin Srebotnjak]

Hi all,

for Slovenian I can only say - it's been fully localized since 1.1.5
or whatever, but we never had enough resources (i.e time and people)
to do the testing. But in all those years our version worked
flawlessly, at least as far as I know. Yet it will never be on the
list, unless someone takes the time and does the tests. Why not put it
on this list with a special icon or note that says UNTESTED or "use
with caution"? Or a special pop-up before download that notifies the
user, that this particular language version did not go through all the
required testing and can thus have serious issues and as such may not
be up to the OOo/Sun standards?

Also, just out of my curiosity, can you list recent examples when a
fully localized national sdf with gsicheck passed successfully (no
errors nor warnings) did not work as expected (like crashed etc.)?

I mean, there are even bugs in vanilla regular builds of OOo, yet OOo
is released (if the bugs are not big enough or not noticed before
release) and later issues get filed and patches written (if at all).
There is no bulletproof system with such a large software project;
maybe even OOo should not be officially released and made available on
OOo pages, as there are like many, many of known bugs or issues filed
in your filing system?

Finally - as these tests are already automatic in many ways - could
not this process be automatized even further, so that with any RC
build the tests would be made automatically by OOo servers for all
available languages and the teams should only go through visual
(screenshots) and text results neatly organized and published on the
website (like a 3-5 minute job) and vote either YES or NO at the end?
The only prerequisite for teams would be to fully localize the tests
(another po file in the tree and in Pootle) used by this system.

Lp, m.

2009/10/16 Rimas Kudelis <rq@...>:

> Hello Ain,
>
> I think you're being a little too harsh here...
>
> First, I think that all OOo languages are available through source-code
> repositories, or am I wrong? I've been using Lithuanian version of OOo
> on Linux long before I found out why it's not being officially
> distributed through the OOo page.
>
> Second, that procedure is not really so insane. The only inconvenient
> part in it is to find at least one tester for each platform you want to
> release, who can devote an hour or so for those formal tests (which are
> pretty simple). While this can prove problematic, I'm sure there is at
> least one platform you can test yourself on. Furthermore, the testers
> don't necessarily have to pass all tests - it's up to you to decide
> whether certain bugs are OK for a release or not. Thus, if you know your
> localization has a problem X, and you still want to release it, that's
> perfectly fine. This testing procedure is made to prevent you from
> distributing bugs you don't know about rather than to ensure that your
> localization is 100% perfect.
>
>
>
> Now, about those untested builds... I think we had a discussion with
> Sophie and Rafaella before (perhaps on IRC) about making them more
> visible. Perhaps we just need to revive this idea. I think I suggested
> to make them available, but to clearly mark them as untested back then.
> There are several to do that. For example, we could have an "untested
> releases" page, and link to if from the main download page, or so...
>
> Rimas
>
>
>
> 2009.10.17 00:02, Ain Vagula rašė:
>> Dear coworker, whatever I ment:
>> When I translate or localize gnumeric or koffice, the localized
>> version is always available to all users 'as is' via repositories. Why
>> should oo.o make a difference, I mean to follow some formal procedures
>> without any real sense? Isnt that enough that translations are
>> submitted and possible issues are filed via IZ?
>>
>> ain
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 23:54, Mechtilde <ooo@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Ain,
>>>
>>> Ain Vagula schrieb:
>>>
>>>> So hard to understand? I know my NL version has issues, too serious,
>>>> not depending on me.
>>>>
>>> Are these issues different to the ones in the other NL versions? Are
>>> they specific for the ee version?
>>>
>>> Why the heck should I follow the procedure? I
>>>
>>>> just want that availabilility of my version is visible on oo.o main
>>>> site? I dont want to lie. There are issues. But a version is
>>>> available, good for 99.99% of users. But everyone says to me, that my
>>>> NL version is not available via oo.o main website.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Otherewise you are the person who decide and is responsible about your
>>> NL version whether it can be released or not.
>>>
>>> Or are there too many text untranslated?
>>>
>>> If you decide it is good enough to release this is your decision.
>>>
>>> Special problems can also be discussed at #ooonlc at irc.freenode.net
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Mechtilde
>>>
>
>
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[Mechtilde Stehmann-2]

Hello,

Martin Srebotnjak schrieb:
> Hi all,
>

>
> Also, just out of my curiosity, can you list recent examples when a
> fully localized national sdf with gsicheck passed successfully (no
> errors nor warnings) did not work as expected (like crashed etc.)?

Yes, we have

E.g. the Polish Win version didn't start after installing.

The goal of the NL version tests should be that it is usable for the
normal user and didn't have severe bugs which are not in the EN version.

It is not the goal that the NL version has to be better than the EN version.
>
> Finally - as these tests are already automatic in many ways - could
> not this process be automatized even further, so that with any RC
> build the tests would be made automatically by OOo servers for all
> available languages and the teams should only go through visual
> (screenshots) and text results neatly organized and published on the
> website (like a 3-5 minute job) and vote either YES or NO at the end?
> The only prerequisite for teams would be to fully localize the tests
> (another po file in the tree and in Pootle) used by this system.

The automatic tests cannot provide you for such things like described
above. But they can easy detect by some manual tests

Regards

Mechtilde

--
Dipl. Ing. Mechtilde Stehmann
## http://de.openoffice.org
## Ansprechpartnerin für die deutschsprachige QA
## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris
## Meine Seite http://www.mechtilde.de
## PGP encryption welcome! Key-ID: 0x53B3892B


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[Ankit Patel]

+1 to the discussion.

Having a download page for all localized OpenOffice.org language packs where two different categories, one for "supported & tested" versions of language packs and another for "beta & untested though translated" versions of language packs, listed would solve the matter I believe.

--- On Sat, 17/10/09, Mechtilde <ooo@...> wrote:

> From: Mechtilde <ooo@...>
> Subject: Re: [l10n-dev] New home for downloading language packs
> To: dev@...
> Date: Saturday, 17 October, 2009, 1:44 PM
> Hello,
>
> Martin Srebotnjak schrieb:
> > Hi all,
> >
>
> >
> > Also, just out of my curiosity, can you list recent
> examples when a
> > fully localized national sdf with gsicheck passed
> successfully (no
> > errors nor warnings) did not work as expected (like
> crashed etc.)?
>
> Yes, we have
>
> E.g. the Polish Win version didn't start after installing.
>
> The goal of the NL version tests should be that it is
> usable for the
> normal user and didn't have severe bugs which are not in
> the EN version.
>
> It is not the goal that the NL version has to be better
> than the EN version.
> >
> > Finally - as these tests are already automatic in many
> ways - could
> > not this process be automatized even further, so that
> with any RC
> > build the tests would be made automatically by OOo
> servers for all
> > available languages and the teams should only go
> through visual
> > (screenshots) and text results neatly organized and
> published on the
> > website (like a 3-5 minute job) and vote either YES or
> NO at the end?
> > The only prerequisite for teams would be to fully
> localize the tests
> > (another po file in the tree and in Pootle) used by
> this system.
>
> The automatic tests cannot provide you for such things like
> described
> above. But they can easy detect by some manual tests
>
> Regards
>
> Mechtilde

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[Rimas Kudelis]

2009.10.17 11:33, Ankit Patel rašė:
> +1 to the discussion.
>
> Having a download page for all localized OpenOffice.org language packs where two different categories, one for "supported & tested" versions of language packs and another for "beta & untested though translated" versions of language packs, listed would solve the matter I believe.
>  

I can only support this position. I can see why e.g. Germans want to
have everything tested before the release, but for smaller localizations
like mine, with no big local communities, it just doesn't work that way.
I myself only have about ten people who volunteered to run tests, and
about a half of them actually DO the tests.

I'd really like us to evolve this idea of having untested langpacks
listed and visible into some working solution.This way we could not only
make lives of our users easier, but also perhaps even attract more
testers for our localizations(e.g. by telling what to do if the user
wants to become one).

Rimas

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[Martin Srebotnjak]

2009/10/17 Rimas Kudelis <rq@...>:
> 2009.10.17 11:33, Ankit Patel rašė:
>> +1 to the discussion.
>>
>> Having a download page for all localized OpenOffice.org language packs where two different categories, one for "supported & tested" versions of language packs and another for "beta & untested though translated" versions of language packs, listed would solve the matter I believe.
>>

+1

I would add three columns in the second table of downloads/category:
a) percentage or color representation of percentage localized (UI, help),
b) test status (non-tested, not-tested-enough, errors, no-QA-team etc.) and
c) other comments (like: without thesaurus etc.),
so that users know why this package might not be "supported & tested"
and decide if they want to try it or not. This can be done very
graphically (at least first two comments) so it does not look too
bulky and technical.

Lp, m.

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