New profiles on WordPress.org

[scribu]

I just saw an sneak preview of the new profiles while whatching Matt on The
State Of The Word
2009<http://wordpress.tv/2009/06/21/matt-mullenwegs-state-of-the-word-wordcamp-san-francisco-2009/>,
and I discovered that you can actually see them online. Mine is here:

http://wordpress.org/profile/scribu/

Hope I'm not causing any trouble by posting this...

--
http://scribu.net
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[Heiko Rabe]

Hi,

i would be happy if somebody can explain the advantage of the new one
similar translation capabilities:

    _x('Published', 'page')

in opposite to

    _c('Published|page')

Normally a GNU gettext processor would not allow to have the same phrase
twice in file.
So if the new _x method writes the phrase to *.mo file the same way as
__ or _e would do, this may lead on some systems to bad behavoir because
of double occurance and damaged hash map table inside *.mo file.

btw: same asked on polyglot but the mails seems not arrive there.

thanks and in advance

Heiko Rabe
(www.code-styling.de)  
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[Peter Westwood]

On 21 Jun 2009, at 18:45, Heiko Rabe wrote:

> i would be happy if somebody can explain the advantage of the new  
> one similar translation capabilities:
>
>   _x('Published', 'page')
>
> in opposite to
>
>   _c('Published|page')
>
> Normally a GNU gettext processor would not allow to have the same  
> phrase twice in file.
> So if the new _x method writes the phrase to *.mo file the same way  
> as __ or _e would do, this may lead on some systems to bad behavoir  
> because of double occurance and damaged hash map table inside *.mo  
> file.

It allows for the context to be properly specified in the po file,  
makes the string easier to translate (and also makes it safer to use  
"|" in a string again)

Previously in the pof file:
#: wp-admin/edit-pages.php:78
msgid "Published|page"
msgstr ""

Now in the pot file:
#: wp-admin/edit-pages.php:78
msgctxt "page"
msgid "Published"
msgstr ""

So it is explicitly marked as context (http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#Contexts 
)

westi
--
Peter Westwood
http://blog.ftwr.co.uk | http://westi.wordpress.com
C53C F8FC 8796 8508 88D6 C950 54F4 5DCD A834 01C5

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[Heiko Rabe]

Hi Peter,

thanks for the answer. If understand it right, than the result of *.mo
file creation process will transform

_x('Published', 'page')

internally into

  "Published|page"

at the binary machine object file. If i now try to reverse a *.mo file,
i can't figure out, if

  "Car|House|Boat|Context"

is a contextual separation string or just a menu item collection used at
__(), because such information about context are not stored inside the
binary format.
So how would the mo/po classes figure out this, because | becomes
unreliable during load of *.mo file ?

regards

Heiko Rabe
(www.code-styling.de)

>
> On 21 Jun 2009, at 18:45, Heiko Rabe wrote:
>> i would be happy if somebody can explain the advantage of the new one
>> similar translation capabilities:
>>
>>   _x('Published', 'page')
>>
>> in opposite to
>>
>>   _c('Published|page')
>>
>> Normally a GNU gettext processor would not allow to have the same
>> phrase twice in file.
>> So if the new _x method writes the phrase to *.mo file the same way
>> as __ or _e would do, this may lead on some systems to bad behavoir
>> because of double occurance and damaged hash map table inside *.mo file.
>
> It allows for the context to be properly specified in the po file,
> makes the string easier to translate (and also makes it safer to use
> "|" in a string again)
>
> Previously in the pof file:
> #: wp-admin/edit-pages.php:78
> msgid "Published|page"
> msgstr ""
>
> Now in the pot file:
> #: wp-admin/edit-pages.php:78
> msgctxt "page"
> msgid "Published"
> msgstr ""
>
> So it is explicitly marked as context
> (http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#Contexts)
>
> westi

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[Nikolay Bachiyski-2]

On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 22:07, Heiko Rabe<heiko.rabe@...> wrote:
>
> Normally a GNU gettext processor would not allow to have the same phrase twice in file.
> So if the new _x method writes the phrase to *.mo file the same way as __ or _e would do, this may
> lead on some systems to bad behavoir because of double occurance and damaged hash map table inside *.mo file.

The context is part of the key, by which the strings are mapped in the
MO file. That's why it won't lead to ambiguities inside the hash map.
Actually, this is the proper gettext way of managing contexts. We
hadn't been using it before, because it wasn't well supported in the
various gettext tools, most notably poEdit.

> _x('Published', 'page')
>
> internally into
>
>  "Published|page"
>
> at the binary machine object file. If i now try to reverse a *.mo file, i
> can't figure out, if
>
>  "Car|House|Boat|Context"
>
> is a contextual separation string or just a menu item collection used at
> __(), because such information about context are not stored inside the
> binary format.
> So how would the mo/po classes figure out this, because | becomes unreliable
> during load of *.mo file ?
>

In the MO file, the context is stored in a different way, not like
"String|context".

>From the MO file specification:

    Contexts are stored by storing the concatenation of the context, a
<EOT> byte, and the original string, instead of the original string.

The full specification:
http://www.gnu.org/software/hello/manual/gettext/MO-Files.html

Happy hacking,
Nikolay.
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[Peter Westwood]

On 21 Jun 2009, at 20:07, Heiko Rabe wrote:

> thanks for the answer. If understand it right, than the result of  
> *.mo file creation process will transform
>
> _x('Published', 'page')
>
> internally into
>
> "Published|page"
>
> at the binary machine object file. If i now try to reverse a *.mo  
> file, i can't figure out, if
>
> "Car|House|Boat|Context"
>
> is a contextual separation string or just a menu item collection  
> used at __(), because such information about context are not stored  
> inside the binary format.
> So how would the mo/po classes figure out this, because | becomes  
> unreliable during load of *.mo file ?

That doesn't sound right to me.

Looking at the code in pomo which parses the file in [1], and the code  
for the C gettext library, I believe the following is true

In the binary mo file the context is stored at the start of the  
translation followed by ascii character EOT (character code 4) this is  
then followed by the translated string.

In the plain text pot or po file it is stored in the context field,  
for example from [2]

#: wp-admin/menu.php:62
msgctxt "page"
msgid "Add New"
msgstr "Нова"

[1] - http://svn.automattic.com/wordpress/trunk/wp-includes/pomo/mo.php
[2] - http://svn.automattic.com/wordpress-i18n/bg_BG/tags/2.8/messages/bg_BG.po

westi
--
Peter Westwood
http://blog.ftwr.co.uk | http://westi.wordpress.com
C53C F8FC 8796 8508 88D6 C950 54F4 5DCD A834 01C5

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[Rich Pedley]

2009/6/21 scribu <scribu@...>:
> I just saw an sneak preview of the new profiles while whatching Matt on The
> State Of The Word
> 2009<http://wordpress.tv/2009/06/21/matt-mullenwegs-state-of-the-word-wordcamp-san-francisco-2009/>,
> and I discovered that you can actually see them online. Mine is here:
>
> http://wordpress.org/profile/scribu/
>
> Hope I'm not causing any trouble by posting this...

doubt it - I could access mine from that page. Though the download
plugin count is off.
Compare:
http://wordpress.org/profile/elfin/
and
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/profile/elfin

(and some of those plugins are out of date anyway).

Rich
--
my mind is on a permanent tangent
http://cms.elfden.co.uk/
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[Heiko Rabe]

Thanks to Nikolay and Peter,

final question(s): This leads (or have to lead) to multiple occurances
at translation systems with the same phrase ?
The only difference is the context so the same term occuring in 50
different contexts but maybe translated the same way now consumes 50
times more space in mo file and PHP memory as would be required, right ?

regards

Heiko Rabe
(www.code-styling.de)

>
> On 21 Jun 2009, at 20:07, Heiko Rabe wrote:
>
>> thanks for the answer. If understand it right, than the result of
>> *.mo file creation process will transform
>>
>> _x('Published', 'page')
>>
>> internally into
>>
>> "Published|page"
>>
>> at the binary machine object file. If i now try to reverse a *.mo
>> file, i can't figure out, if
>>
>> "Car|House|Boat|Context"
>>
>> is a contextual separation string or just a menu item collection used
>> at __(), because such information about context are not stored inside
>> the binary format.
>> So how would the mo/po classes figure out this, because | becomes
>> unreliable during load of *.mo file ?
>
> That doesn't sound right to me.
>
> Looking at the code in pomo which parses the file in [1], and the code
> for the C gettext library, I believe the following is true
>
> In the binary mo file the context is stored at the start of the
> translation followed by ascii character EOT (character code 4) this is
> then followed by the translated string.
>
> In the plain text pot or po file it is stored in the context field,
> for example from [2]
>
> #: wp-admin/menu.php:62
> msgctxt "page"
> msgid "Add New"
> msgstr "Нова"
>
> [1] - http://svn.automattic.com/wordpress/trunk/wp-includes/pomo/mo.php
> [2] -
> http://svn.automattic.com/wordpress-i18n/bg_BG/tags/2.8/messages/bg_BG.po
>
> westi

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[Shane A. Froebel]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

That's tight. I found two of my profiles.
http://wordpress.org/profile/ShaneFroebel/ and
http://wordpress.org/profile/ShaneF/. To bad I can have the stuff from
the ShaneFroebel profile merged into the ShaneF.

Otherwise it's very cool! :D

Your Friend,
Shane

Rich Pedley wrote:

> 2009/6/21 scribu <scribu@...>:
>> I just saw an sneak preview of the new profiles while whatching Matt on The
>> State Of The Word
>> 2009<http://wordpress.tv/2009/06/21/matt-mullenwegs-state-of-the-word-wordcamp-san-francisco-2009/>,
>> and I discovered that you can actually see them online. Mine is here:
>>
>> http://wordpress.org/profile/scribu/
>>
>> Hope I'm not causing any trouble by posting this...
>
> doubt it - I could access mine from that page. Though the download
> plugin count is off.
> Compare:
> http://wordpress.org/profile/elfin/
> and
> http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/profile/elfin
>
> (and some of those plugins are out of date anyway).
>
> Rich

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[Nikolay Bachiyski-2]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 01:34, Heiko Rabe<heiko.rabe@...> wrote:
> Thanks to Nikolay and Peter,
>
> final question(s): This leads (or have to lead) to multiple occurances at
> translation systems with the same phrase ?
> The only difference is the context so the same term occuring in 50 different
> contexts but maybe translated the same way now consumes 50 times more space
> in mo file and PHP memory as would be required, right ?
>

Yes.

The same points were valid for the |-way of doing this.

Happy hacking,
Nikolay.
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