Next Generation Database Schema

[DonRedman]

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:13:41 +0100, Orion wrote:

> Example 5:
>
> CD artist:
> ZONE with Girlz&Boyz～Run Time All Stars～
>
> CD title:
> ASTRO Girlz＆Boyz
>
> Track title and artist info: (copy/pasted from  
> http://tvstation.jp/special/artist/htm/zone.htm)
> M1.科学の子／西村朝香(コーラス：AYUKA、HITOMI、MAMI)
> M2.空を越えて／神＆瞬矢from BON'Z(コーラス：SANAE)
> M3.星の彼方／半澤悠＆栞
> M4.アトムの子／TAKAYO from ZONE＆Run Time All Stars
> M5.誕生／鈴の音(コーラス：Run Time All Stars)
> M6.鉄腕アトム／ZONE＆Run Time All Stars
> M7.鉄腕アトム(Instrumental)
>
> Explanation: Run Time is a production company with various groups and  
> solo artists managed and trained under it.  ZONE is pretty much the only  
> big artist they've made so far.
>
> Track 1 has Nishimura Tomoka (西村朝香) as the artist with 3 misc  
> younger members of the company as backup but not included in the track  
> artist.  To make things fun, she wasn't a member of Zone when this  
> single came out but did join at the beginning of 2004 when one left at  
> the end of 2003 until they broke up completely earlier this year.
> Track 2 has two members of the group BON'Z credited with the group's  
> name as part of it (神＆瞬矢from BON'Z).  Some random younger girl  
> thrown in again on the chorus but not credited in the artist.
> Track 3 is credited to two random girls from Run Time's stable (半澤悠＆
> 栞).
> Track 4 is 1 member of Zone + a whole herd of misc younger members of  
> Run Time that were credited as "Run Time All Stars"
> Track 5 was a short lived 2 person group (鈴の音) from Run Time with the  
> all stars doing the chorus but not in the artist credit.
> Track 6 is ZONE & the "Run Time All Stars" herd
> Track 7 is the instrumental to that.
>
> It's often listed as a ZONE single since it starts with their name and  
> they're the only fairly popular artist on it.

On whichs artist discography would you expect this album? On the ZONE one  
of course. And then?
As a Various Artist on the discography of 鈴の音 I suppose. On that of  
BON'Z or of 神＆瞬矢 only? IIUC the stable girls are not important :-).

> I remember this CD giving me a headache when I got it...  And I think I  
> just got a new one trying to explain it.
>
> Specific issues that are problematic:
> - When one or two members from a band perform solo and are credited with  
> the bands name so that people recognize them, how do we indicate this?
> - how do you credit the artist the CD was released under "ZONE with  
> Girlz&Boyz～Run Time All Stars～" when that name wasn't used except on  
> this release and wasn't the artist for a single track.
> - how to deal with collaboration artists like the one on track 3, where,  
> as far as I'm aware and can find on google, neither participant has  
> released anything else.  The analogy to the ever useful David Bowie and  
> Queen collaboration would be if neither Bowie nor Queen had ever  
> released anything besides that one song and it were to have been on a  
> Prince album.

Huh, I had to laught at this one :-)

   DonRedman

--
Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages:
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[Nine99]

>  * one or two simple classical examples.
>  * What about these albums that were released as single disc  
> albums/singles and then in a set? Anyone has an example for this?
>  * for further intensive strain-tests (although the japanese examples
> are  already pretty tough) we'd need examples that span more that one  
> release/track:

>    * one example of a simple remaster with or without additional tracks.
http://www.discogs.com/release/16774 (Atari Teenage Riot  - Delete
Yourself!) is a re-release of "1995" with the same catalogue number, but
different cover art. http://www.discogs.com/release/245945 (CD) /
http://www.discogs.com/release/245945 (LP).

>    * are there albums that contain tracks with identical titles and  
> lenghts but different audio (remastered audio or even more differences?)
Atari Teenage Riot  - Burn, Berlin, Burn!
(http://www.discogs.com/release/45739) was later re-released on another
label in 2003 with re-mastered sound and alternate artwork
(http://www.discogs.com/release/213914). Track 5 has the same title on
the cover, but is infact the " (remix)" version.

>    * What about DJ-Mixes? Those that separate the songs in tracks, and  
> those that have all in one track?
Alec Empire  - Alec Empire 'The Destroyer' DHR Mix Tape
(http://www.discogs.com/release/376610): A continuous DJ mix (except
that it is a LP with two sides). Later re-released as Various Artists -
Riot Zone (disc 2)/(bonus disc) (http://www.discogs.com/release/231471)
on CD with separate tracks.

>  * In what aspects can two albums differ only _very_slighlty_:
>    * a rerelease with nothing changed except the EAN code?
>    * a rerelease with different cover but otherwise identical?
>    * just a bonus track added
Atari Teenage Riot  - The Future of War
(http://www.discogs.com/release/16775) was released in Japan with 3
bonus tracks (http://www.discogs.com/release/223038) and these bonus
tracks were later added to the European 2nd pressing version, but were
not listed on the cover

>    * etc (this stuff is important to figure out on which level which  
> information must be stored).
Atari Teenage Riot  - 60 Second Wipe Out (Listening Copy)
(http://www.discogs.com/release/454182) is an album promo which didn't
had a title yet and some of the tracks propably were'nt completely produced.

>>   * Usage cases: What do you want MusicBrainz to be able to do?
I want MBz to be able to sort my music collection by labels (like many
on slsk do).

> PLEASE tell us what you use MusicBrainz for. I know that this is
> evident  to you, but it is not evident to me.
I currently tag my MP3s/Oggs with it and try to complete the discography
of my favourite artists. I currently do not use it if I want zto see an
artists discography (too heavy/complex). I use Discogs instead.

> I have once helped to design an iterface for MB with my usage practices
> in  mind: That clunky add-AdvancedRelationships interface. You can tell
> that I  am not a mass-editor who does more than a few edits a day, can't
> you? I'd  hate if this happened again.
The album/artist/relationship adding is too slow. I would like to do
several edit steps on one page (like in Discogs).

> To be more specific, we need to know what you do (or want to) _use_  
> MusicBrainz data for. How do you want your files to be tagged? What
> kind  of information do you want to be able to retrieve? To do what?
>
>   DonRedman
>

Sandor (Ninne99/darkshyne)
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[Nine99]

Various Artists - NEtWORk RESiStENCE 2002
(http://www.discogs.com/release/158249)

Inbetween each track there are samples of Black Panther revolutionaries,
Martin Luther King Jr., etc... I added it with these samples as separate
tracks
(http://musicbrainz.org/album/86d08940-89cc-4f8a-bfd0-0540b2355ae3.html).
Is thjere a rule for such cases?

Sandor (Nine99/darkshyne)
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[Cristov Russell]

A soundtrack example where I applied classical styles that currently can not
be expressed with AR.

http://musicbrainz.org/album/08325106-2e6d-4c7c-9f50-bc86d905b996.html

With both tracks, AR is currently done at the track level. Using AR on 7 for
instance would imply that both John Gustafson and Ian Gillian performed on
both Simon Zealotes and Poor Jerusalem which isn't accurate at all.

Track 3: What's the Buzz (feat. Ian Gillan & Yvonne Elliman) / Strange Thing
Mystifying (feat. Murray Head & Ian Gillan)
Track 7: Simon Zealotes (feat. John Gustafson) / Poor Jerusalem (feat. Ian
Gillan)

Cristov (wolfsong)


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[Cristov Russell]

Prince's Lovesexy was released on all formats as a single track with 9
songs. It's actually listed in MB twice (probably for practical reasons)
somewhat correctly (http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=20380) and
somewhat not so correctly
(http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=95507). The problem with the
first entry is that the track is simply listed as "Lovesexy" but in
actuality the track should consist of all 9 song titles. The second listing
while technically incorrect is more logical and what most users would want
(based on TRMs) with all 9 tracks split out.

Ideally I want to be able to have the correct disc ID associated but tag the
files based on songs if I've chosen to split them up. This also holds true
for the hidden bonus tracks such as Your House on Alanis Morrissette's
Jagged Little Pull.

Cristov (wolfsong)


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[Cristov Russell]

Paul McCartney's "All the Best"
(http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=33267) is a compilation of
singles culled from solo, Wings, Paul McCartney and Wings & Paul and Linda
McCartney releases. To represent this accurately today and avoid making this
a VA release, "feat. X" is heavily used. However, it's a little confusing to
see these releases alongside solo releases with a true featured artist.

Ideally I'd like the release to:

1. appear under McCartney's releases
2. appear under under the other "groups" but somehow be distinguished as
only having tracks that appear on this release (the same applies for guest
artists)

A similar example would be Prince's "The Hits" where some tracks are solo,
some with the Revolution and others with the NPG.

http://musicbrainz.org/album/d2e05c81-ca9b-47f3-ba02-4efbaf531716.html
http://musicbrainz.org/album/473bce27-84d3-4983-9dc6-0f884ad70a39.html
http://musicbrainz.org/album/8ad53308-6307-4366-b589-6f97af7ba2aa.html

Cristov (wolfsong)


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[g0llum]

> of my favourite artists. I currently do not use it if I want
> zto see an
> artists discography (too heavy/complex). I use Discogs instead.

If you have suggestions for the ArtistPageRedesing, do so on the wiki of the
redesign effort, please.

> > you? I'd  hate if this happened again.
> The album/artist/relationship adding is too slow. I would like to do

We're currently thinking about that, and this will be available soon - but
only after we have a satisfactory implementation to get rid of feat. After
this, everything will fall into place much easier I'm sure.

  g0llum

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[g0llum]

> Various Artists - NEtWORk RESiStENCE 2002
> (http://www.discogs.com/release/158249)

What about vinyl numbering, is this something we should think about too?

> Martin Luther King Jr., etc... I added it with these samples
> as separate tracks
> Is thjere a rule for such cases?

I think this is ok, but I'm afraid there is no rule which says so. If you
had the tracktimes, it would be quite obvious that these are only snippets
stuffed inbetween the tracks

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[g0llum]

> Sometimes I correct pre-existing song titles from English to Japanese,
> but I suppose there are some people who just want the English version
> for title tracks, or the Japanese ones, or other language.

We currently enter multiple versions of the same album, if it was released
in different languages (translations/transliterations etc.). This is not a
very nice solution, but it allows at least to choose the album you like when
you tag against it. "Correcting" an album into another language is a sure
bet if you want other editors to scream angry howls at you :-)

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[Clifford Caoile]

On 11/25/05, Stefan Kestenholz <g0llum@...> wrote:
> > Sometimes I correct pre-existing song titles from English to Japanese,
> > but I suppose there are some people who just want the English version
> > for title tracks, or the Japanese ones, or other language.
>
> We currently enter multiple versions of the same album, if it was released
> in different languages (translations/transliterations etc.). This is not a
> very nice solution, but it allows at least to choose the album you like when
> you tag against it. "Correcting" an album into another language is a sure
> bet if you want other editors to scream angry howls at you :-)

Got it. So if I see my Japanese CD with an CD ID match something
already entered in English (or other language but it's almost always
English), I should add a new album entry and put the Japanese titles
in there. Perhaps add also an association between albums. (There's no
association for original language/translation/transliteration, though)
Is that OK?

I've already been howled at once, I think. (>_<); Heh.
http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=3761738

Best regards,
Clifford Caoile - "piyo"

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[Jan van Thiel-2]

Some examples:

- An album that shouldn't be listed as yet another VA release, but
under DJ Sammy. It is currently by VA ('Loona' is another performance
name for DJ Sammy):
http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=99771

- There are releases that have tracks with multiple artists. The same
as two songs on one track, but at the same time the songs are by
different artists who in no way cooperated on those songs. See
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/TracksWithMultipleArtists for examples.
http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=79606 would be a good
example.

- Related to the example above, possibly the same solution: track 11
on http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=409997 . A megamix of
a lot of songs all by different artists. Not sure whether the mixer
should be the track artist, or all artists having songs in that
megamix. In any way, it is not possible to accurately represent this
in the database (with AR, it's impossible to have an order for the
songs the megamix consists of). Another example for this would be
Technotronics Megamix:
http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=314660 . Track 1 has
ARs, but the ordering of the songs cannot be derived.

- A discography for an artist should also list the releases for the
collaborations he's worked on, and possible the bands/groups he is/was
in. Example: Neil Young:
http://musicbrainz.org/showrel.html?id=964&type=artist . People expect
the one release as "Neil Young and the Shocking Pinks" to be also
listed under Neil Young, as people try to add it to Neil Young over
and over and over.

- Tag artists in another script than the database has it. e.g. I'd
prefer 'Aram Khachaturian' over 'Արամ Խաչատրյան', since I cannot read
the latter.

- classical musicVA example:
http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=286752 . Should be
listed under composers, conductors, performers.

- classical music single artist example:
http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=397135 . Same as above:
should be listed under composers, conductors, performers.

Jan

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[Jan van Thiel-2]

On 11/25/05, Don Redman <donredman@...> wrote:
>   * What about these albums that were released as single disc
> albums/singles and then in a set? Anyone has an example for this?

3 disc set: The Platinum Collection
artist: Queen

disc 1: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=202695
single disc: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=220019

disc 2: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=202696
single disc: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=22840

disc 3: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=214528
single disc: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=106288

Note that disc 3 should probably be a VA release, but that problem has
already been covered.

Jan

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[azertus]

I am mainly (but not only) interested in soundtracks and, more specific,
scores. Currently these albums have (justly) got an own release type and
are IMO as distinct as classical albums.

There are some things I want/need MusicBrainz to be able to do for
scores & soundtracks.

- When tagging, I want the YEAR tag or something similar filled with the
release date of the _movie_...

- (and this is also an example) I want to search for a movie, say
Braveheart, and be taken to page where I can see the year and country it
was released in (1995, U.S.) On that page I want to be able to see that
James Horner was the composer for that movie. I also want to see there
were two distinct albums containing this soundtrack: "Braveheart" and
"More Music from Braveheart"; possibly with the detailed release
information displayed next to it (whereas it is currently only displayed
on the album pages)

This might seem like an interface proposal, but it isn't. All of this is
probably only possible if there was a kind of higher-level MovieObject,
with a link to iMDB, aka titles, release date/country, main composer(s),
etc...

I also want to link one album to more MovieObjects ("movies represented:
..., ..., etc.") for example in the case of
http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=434186 . That album should
be linked to the "The Paper Adventure", "Conrack" & "The Poseidon
Adventure" movie page.

Take a look at
http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/catalog/soundtrackdetail.php?movieid=22744 
for a possible implementation...

azertus
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[Jan van Thiel-2]

The Bob Dylan album Bringing It All Back Home (
http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=42835 ) has also been
released under a different title.

Album The Beatles, which is commonly referred to as The White Album,
is currently in the database as 'The Beatles (The White Album)'.

These examples, as well as the box set example, show that some sort of
alternate title is necessary.

Jan

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[Lauri Watts]

On 11/25/05, Jan van Thiel <zout@...> wrote:
> On 11/25/05, Don Redman <donredman@...> wrote:
> >   * What about these albums that were released as single disc
> > albums/singles and then in a set? Anyone has an example for this?

Here's one that's quite similar to the Queen example, but might be
useful anyway:
Gyllene Tider

The following standalone albums:
Moderna Tider
http://musicbrainz.org/album/fb1f3e71-032e-4153-9c56-2dce4111b53a.html
Gyllene Tider
http://musicbrainz.org/album/0d41bc85-d10c-4f36-8926-a91abdc510bc.html
Puls
http://musicbrainz.org/album/65068d5d-8e58-4417-ab67-e264f80a3a06.html
and The Heartland Café
http://musicbrainz.org/album/33cbf979-d477-450f-9985-0b3787c5b885.html

Were all re-released in box set in 1990 along with one more disc:
Parkliv
http://musicbrainz.org/album/279926d0-431f-47b2-a6fe-960448aa4541.html
Which is only part of this box set.

Then again in 2004 for the bands 25th anniversary
each of the above albums were remastered and re-released in digipack
format, except for the album Gyllene Tider, which had also been
re-released separately in 2000 (apparently that master was reused in
2004) and the Parkliv album (EP?) which was not re-released, it's only
available if you can find a copy of that 1990 box set

These are currently all in the system only once, and although I've put
some of this in annotations, I kind of left it half done, because I
have no idea how to really make it clear how the releases relate to
each other currently.

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[Steve Wyles]

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005, Jan van Thiel wrote:

> On 11/25/05, Don Redman <donredman@...> wrote:
> >   * What about these albums that were released as single disc
> > albums/singles and then in a set? Anyone has an example for this?
>
> 3 disc set: The Platinum Collection
> artist: Queen
>
> disc 1: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=202695
> single disc: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=220019
>
> disc 2: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=202696
> single disc: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=22840
>
> disc 3: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=214528
> single disc: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=106288
>
> Note that disc 3 should probably be a VA release, but that problem has
> already been covered.
>

Yes, it should probably be a VA album, however it would be annoying to
have the "album artist" for the single disc as VA when the other two would
be Queen. We need a way of bundling box sets together and list them under
the album artist of the first disc in the box.

As I use the album artist for directory names, converting the 3rd disc to
VA would give me a directory structure like this:


\
|-----Queen
|       \
|         disc 1
|         disc 2
|
|-----Various Artists
|        \
|         disc 3

Steve (inhouseuk)
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[Jan van Thiel-2]

On 11/25/05, Steve Wyles <steve@...> wrote:

> Yes, it should probably be a VA album, however it would be annoying to
> have the "album artist" for the single disc as VA when the other two would
> be Queen. We need a way of bundling box sets together and list them under
> the album artist of the first disc in the box.
>
> As I use the album artist for directory names, converting the 3rd disc to
> VA would give me a directory structure like this:
>
>
> \
> |-----Queen
> |       \
> |         disc 1
> |         disc 2
> |
> |-----Various Artists
> |        \
> |         disc 3

This seems like an implementation issue. Besides, it won't work.
Counterexample: Creedence Clearwater Revivals 'Boxed Set'. Disc 1 is a
VA release where none of the track artists are actually CCR:
http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=204695 . The other discs
are by CCR. All discs (or better: the box set) should somehow be
connected to CCR.

Jan

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[Steve Wyles]

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005, Jan van Thiel wrote:

> On 11/25/05, Steve Wyles <steve@...> wrote:
> > Yes, it should probably be a VA album, however it would be annoying to
> > have the "album artist" for the single disc as VA when the other two would
> > be Queen. We need a way of bundling box sets together and list them under
> > the album artist of the first disc in the box.
> >
> > As I use the album artist for directory names, converting the 3rd disc to
> > VA would give me a directory structure like this:
> >
> >
> > \
> > |-----Queen
> > |       \
> > |         disc 1
> > |         disc 2
> > |
> > |-----Various Artists
> > |        \
> > |         disc 3
>
> This seems like an implementation issue. Besides, it won't work.
> Counterexample: Creedence Clearwater Revivals 'Boxed Set'. Disc 1 is a
> VA release where none of the track artists are actually CCR:
> http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=204695 . The other discs
> are by CCR. All discs (or better: the box set) should somehow be
> connected to CCR.
>

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. The directory structure I showed is what
would happen if the 3rd disc was converted to VA at the moment, which is a
little silly.

Steve (inhouseuk)
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[orion-6]

Jan van Thiel wrote:

> On 11/25/05, Don Redman <donredman@...> wrote:
>
>>  * What about these albums that were released as single disc
>>albums/singles and then in a set? Anyone has an example for this?
>
>
> 3 disc set: The Platinum Collection
> artist: Queen
>
> disc 1: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=202695
> single disc: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=220019
>
> disc 2: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=202696
> single disc: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=22840
>
> disc 3: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=214528
> single disc: http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=106288
>
> Note that disc 3 should probably be a VA release, but that problem has
> already been covered.
>
> Jan

http://musicbrainz.org/showartist.html?artistid=41636 also fits that
case.  The first 8 singles there were then re-released as the box set
down below with a bonus 9th disc.

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[orion-6]

Don Redman wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:13:41 +0100, Orion wrote:
>
>> Example 5:
>>
>> CD artist:
>> ZONE with Girlz&Boyz～Run Time All Stars～
>>
>> CD title:
>> ASTRO Girlz＆Boyz
>>
>> Track title and artist info: (copy/pasted from  
>> http://tvstation.jp/special/artist/htm/zone.htm)
>> M1.科学の子／西村朝香(コーラス：AYUKA、HITOMI、MAMI)
>> M2.空を越えて／神＆瞬矢from BON'Z(コーラス：SANAE)
>> M3.星の彼方／半澤悠＆栞
>> M4.アトムの子／TAKAYO from ZONE＆Run Time All Stars
>> M5.誕生／鈴の音(コーラス：Run Time All Stars)
>> M6.鉄腕アトム／ZONE＆Run Time All Stars
>> M7.鉄腕アトム(Instrumental)
>>
>> Explanation: Run Time is a production company with various groups and  
>> solo artists managed and trained under it.  ZONE is pretty much the
>> only  big artist they've made so far.
>>
>> Track 1 has Nishimura Tomoka (西村朝香) as the artist with 3 misc  
>> younger members of the company as backup but not included in the
>> track  artist.  To make things fun, she wasn't a member of Zone when
>> this  single came out but did join at the beginning of 2004 when one
>> left at  the end of 2003 until they broke up completely earlier this
>> year.
>> Track 2 has two members of the group BON'Z credited with the group's  
>> name as part of it (神＆瞬矢from BON'Z).  Some random younger girl  
>> thrown in again on the chorus but not credited in the artist.
>> Track 3 is credited to two random girls from Run Time's stable (半澤悠
>> ＆ 栞).
>> Track 4 is 1 member of Zone + a whole herd of misc younger members of  
>> Run Time that were credited as "Run Time All Stars"
>> Track 5 was a short lived 2 person group (鈴の音) from Run Time with
>> the  all stars doing the chorus but not in the artist credit.
>> Track 6 is ZONE & the "Run Time All Stars" herd
>> Track 7 is the instrumental to that.
>>
>> It's often listed as a ZONE single since it starts with their name
>> and  they're the only fairly popular artist on it.
>
>
> On whichs artist discography would you expect this album? On the ZONE
> one  of course. And then?
> As a Various Artist on the discography of 鈴の音 I suppose. On that of  
> BON'Z or of 神＆瞬矢 only? IIUC the stable girls are not important :-).

Going by how it's listed in real life - ZONE is the only one who's label
lists it
http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/Music/Arch/SR/Zone/m_disco_album.html  That
could be partially because they were on Sony (and so is the CD) while
BON'Z didn't get signed until this year and are on UMG
http://www.universal-music.co.jp/bonz/ and 鈴の音 only had one release
ever, a week after this CD came out that appears to have been on a small
indie label attached to Run Time.

And for what I'd expect - the CD artist to be either ZONE or ZONE with
Girlz&Boyz～Run Time All Stars～ with it appearing in the ZONE, 鈴の音,
and probably the BON'Z discographies as VA releases.  And ignoring the
stable might not be safe, Run Time seems to have aspirations of turning
their stable into ones like those of Johnnys Entertainment and Up Front
Agency, both of which have herds of young singers that appear as
background and chorus singers and dancers in concerts and live TV
performances.  They generally move them out into actual groups and solo
careers as they get old enough and good enough.  The herd that got
summed up as "Run Time All Stars" can still be safely ignored but at
least one of the ones that got listed by name as a chorus singer is now
in an actual group http://www.runtime.co.jp/w_maria/maria_pr.html and
will probably get solo songs eventually.

>> I remember this CD giving me a headache when I got it...  And I think
>> I  just got a new one trying to explain it.
>>
>> Specific issues that are problematic:
>> - When one or two members from a band perform solo and are credited
>> with  the bands name so that people recognize them, how do we indicate
>> this?
>> - how do you credit the artist the CD was released under "ZONE with  
>> Girlz&Boyz～Run Time All Stars～" when that name wasn't used except
>> on  this release and wasn't the artist for a single track.
>> - how to deal with collaboration artists like the one on track 3,
>> where,  as far as I'm aware and can find on google, neither
>> participant has  released anything else.  The analogy to the ever
>> useful David Bowie and  Queen collaboration would be if neither Bowie
>> nor Queen had ever  released anything besides that one song and it
>> were to have been on a  Prince album.
>
>
> Huh, I had to laught at this one :-)

You're welcome ^^  It's still an issue though, people seem to be
generally against adding a whole bunch of artists that only have one
track credited to them but there doesn't seem to be a way to avoid it
cases like this.

And the concept of group membership seems tricky.  For a lot of Japanese
groups until someone leaves the group their group's name is invariably
attached after their name in any collaborations or solo work they do.
The extreme end of this would be some of the Hello! Project stuff where
they actually say outloud the equivalent of "enclosing parentheses
<group's name>" after the singer's name when they're collaborating.

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