No good CD-Rom copy software

[Siggy Brentrup-2]

On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 09:54:48PM +1000, Res wrote:

> We know which side that is too, in case your still unsure, it is not in
> Jorgs best interest to impede a distro distributing his software, and
> since he's been here telling you all, why you should use it, it points to
> the debian maintainers beong the stuborn ones, (oh my, what a surprise
> there ........ not LOL)

A bit OT for this list, but since I'm new here could you please point
me to the relevant archive.

Thanks
  Siggy (former dd)
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[Res-2]

Well, then lets hear Jorgs point of view on this...
I will gladly report his reply to the list if he says thats OK, given he
is not a member so you wont have to wait a week for the mod to see and
approve his post to the list.

Jorg for your reference, the stated reason was linked to in an earler
reply I've already deleted, but this is the archive that they pointed to:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2009-February/000413.html


On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, Oliver Grawert wrote:

> On Mo, 2009-07-06 at 21:54 +1000, Res wrote:
>>We know which side that is too, in case your still unsure, it is not in
>>Jorgs best interest to impede a distro distributing his software, and
>>since
>>he's been here telling you all, why you should use it, it points to the
>>debian maintainers beong the stuborn ones, (oh my, what a surprise there
>>........ not LOL)

> well, i doubt either Eben Moglen as an independent licensing expert, nor
> the license lawyers employed by the FSF are actual debian
> developers ...
> but both declare distribution of the software not legal ... doesnt that
> tell you someting ?

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[Joerg Schilling-3]

Res <res@...> wrote:

> Well, then lets hear Jorgs point of view on this...
> I will gladly report his reply to the list if he says thats OK, given he
> is not a member so you wont have to wait a week for the mod to see and
> approve his post to the list.
>
> Jorg for your reference, the stated reason was linked to in an earler
> reply I've already deleted, but this is the archive that they pointed to:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2009-February/000413.html

Just a note, this does not contain not an official statement from Eben
Moglen, there is only a POV claim from Mark Shuttleworth and this is
definitely wrong :-(

Eben Moglen did tell me in several private mails that there is no license problem
with cdrtools. Moglen send me even mail that explains why the claims about the
so-called GPL CDDL incompatibility as found on the FSF websites are wrong.

I am sure that Moglen will never make a public claim that could support the
statement from Mark Shuttleworth.

Note that The Sun legal department did make a full legal review on the cdrtools
project and did not find any license problem.

Note that the book from an independend lawyer (Lawrence Rosen - the lawyer of
the OpenSource Inittiative) wrote a book on OSS licenses that explains the GPL
in a word level granularity (see: http://www.rosenlaw.com/Rosen_Ch06.pdf) and
that explains why none of the claims made by the  non-cooperative Debian
package maintainer that initated the dispute is valid.

Jörg

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       joerg.schilling@... (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

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[Rashkae-2]

Oliver Grawert wrote:

> hi,
> On Mo, 2009-07-06 at 21:54 +1000, Res wrote:
>> ... it points to
>> the debian maintainers beong the stuborn ones, (oh my, what a surprise
>> there ........ not LOL)
> well, i doubt either Eben Moglen as an independent licensing expert, nor
> the license lawyers employed by the FSF are actual debian
> developers ...
> but both declare distribution of the software not legal ... doesnt that
> tell you someting ?
>
> ciao
> oli
>

I think there's lots of finger pointing whichever way you look at it.

This whole mess could have been avoided from the very start if debian
maintainers had simply agreed to Joerg's request that modified versions
of cdrecord be forked properly rather than patches added to his code.
Even if there is disagreement on how the GPL is interpreted in this
regard, it would have been a simple enough courtesy, if nothing else.

(See, for example, Icedrake instead of Firefox, for the exact same reason.)

Of course, Joerg can clean the mess up himself the same way.  Bring the
code back to GPL compliance (or what most everyone else things is GPL
compliance besides him and Sun), rename the app to something
trademarked, and restrict modified versions from using that trademark.

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[Preston Hagar]

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Res<res@...> wrote:

> Well, then lets hear Jorgs point of view on this...
> I will gladly report his reply to the list if he says thats OK, given he
> is not a member so you wont have to wait a week for the mod to see and
> approve his post to the list.
>
> Jorg for your reference, the stated reason was linked to in an earler
> reply I've already deleted, but this is the archive that they pointed to:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2009-February/000413.html
>
> Res

I in no way can speak for Jorg (I do not know him, or have ever spoken
with him), but this page on the cdrtools website gives some good
insight as to the thoughts of at least, I would assume, the cdrecord
team:

http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html

Preston

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[Florian Diesch]

Res <res@...> wrote:

> Well, then lets hear Jorgs point of view on this...
> I will gladly report his reply to the list if he says thats OK, given he
> is not a member so you wont have to wait a week for the mod to see and
> approve his post to the list.

Please don't. Everyone who's interested in the issue can find
thousands of similar discussions on about any list/forum/group that's
in any way related to cdrecord/wodim. There's nothing new to add.


   Florian
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[Karl F. Larsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Res wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, Karl F. Larsen wrote:
>
>> It makes me wonder why Joerg Schilling tried to get all of us to
>> d/l the cdrtools package. Since cdrtools is free for the d/l I
>> wonder why there is still a license problem.
>>
>> It sounds like people on one or both sides are being
>> unreasonable.
>>
>
> We know which side that is too, in case your still unsure, it is
> not in Jorgs best interest to impede a distro distributing his
> software, and since he's been here telling you all, why you should
> use it, it points to the debian maintainers beong the stuborn ones,
> (oh my, what a surprise there ........ not LOL)
>
>

    I am no lawyer and I only know that I can get the tarball of
cdrecord and therefore re-write something and call it another
software. But I don't because there is no reason to. I think Jorg's
trying to be helpful and I do have the tar ball and cdrecord at
/opt/schill/bin/ and an explanation why it is there.


73 Karl


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    Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
    Linux User
    #450462   http://counter.li.org.
        Key ID = 3951B48D

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