No loud audio on Fedora 11 x86_64

[lanas]

All,

  There is seemingly a problem with having loud audio on Fedora 11
x86_64 on a recent ASUS mainboard using the Nvidia audio interface.  The
Nvidia app has all volume controls set to 11 so to speak, and the audio
hardware volume knob all set to the max but still, no loud noise.
alsamixer will only return 1 control, which is set to 100 and kmix will
seemingly not start.  Of course, PulseAudio is in full force.  This
also affects Qsynth and Zyn outputs when jackd is running.

  Is this a known problem or is it local to that machine ?

Thanks.
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[lorenzosu]

I'de like to have some info/pointers on samples for classical music
(especially orchestra) in the situations when one has to provide a
'virtual' performance.

There are plenty of synths and stuff done with linux for linux, I myself
use puredata extensively for electionic music, but this is a different
dcenario.

I've lately tried the linuxsampler stuff (qsanpler etc.), and was
impressed by the freebie gig piano on the website, but it looks the gig
format is quite dead at the moment, I wonder if there is a second hand
market for those, as it looks they were very popular before tascam
closed down the gigasampler thing.
For classical music, searching around it seems that currently SoundFonts
are the best supported form of samples on Linux.
I'm not necessarily talking of free stuff: quality sampling is a
laborious and skilful process and paying for good samples is fair enough
for a (digital) musician, so I'm talking about support: in fact it seems
that most packages are stand-alones for windows or mac.


Best regards,
Lorenzo.
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[Andrew C-5]

Hey Lorenzo,

The linuxsampler stuff is, if i'm not mistaken, the only native linux app capable of streaming samples from disk.
Also, FWIW, the gig format isn't really dead, because you still have linuxsampler that can read and write to native giga format. On top of that, linuxsampler is available for both linux AND Windows, so you can still play any .gig files even if you don't have gigastudio/gigasampler.

Also, there are a handful of free orchestral soundfonts out there, no commercial stuff, and to be fair, there's hardly anything in commercial out there that's in soundfont format..

Andrew Coughlan.

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton@...> wrote:

I'de like to have some info/pointers on samples for classical music
(especially orchestra) in the situations when one has to provide a
'virtual' performance.

There are plenty of synths and stuff done with linux for linux, I myself
use puredata extensively for electionic music, but this is a different
dcenario.

I've lately tried the linuxsampler stuff (qsanpler etc.), and was
impressed by the freebie gig piano on the website, but it looks the gig
format is quite dead at the moment, I wonder if there is a second hand
market for those, as it looks they were very popular before tascam
closed down the gigasampler thing.
For classical music, searching around it seems that currently SoundFonts
are the best supported form of samples on Linux.
I'm not necessarily talking of free stuff: quality sampling is a
laborious and skilful process and paying for good samples is fair enough
for a (digital) musician, so I'm talking about support: in fact it seems
that most packages are stand-alones for windows or mac.


Best regards,
Lorenzo.
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[Julien Claassen]

Hello Lorenzo!
   For the GigaSampler there were a few Garritan products, I seem to remember,
that they were quite nice. they definitely had some strings,I know one of the
LinuxSampler guys used those strings in a piece.
   Beyond that: I know, that sampletekk has a nice set of orchestral brass,
which suite me fine, even for not so orchestral work. But then I'm stomped.
There should be a second hand market for the old GigaSampler/GigaStudio
products, which have gone out of sale.
   Besides that I'd say Wine and VSTIs, or perhaps someone has experience with
Kontakt samples, they are en vogue now, I believe.
   Kindest regards
           Julien

--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)

======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
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[Q-9]

Julien Claassen wrote:

> Hello Lorenzo!
>    For the GigaSampler there were a few Garritan products, I seem to remember,
> that they were quite nice. they definitely had some strings,I know one of the
> LinuxSampler guys used those strings in a piece.
>    Beyond that: I know, that sampletekk has a nice set of orchestral brass,
> which suite me fine, even for not so orchestral work. But then I'm stomped.
> There should be a second hand market for the old GigaSampler/GigaStudio
> products, which have gone out of sale.
>    Besides that I'd say Wine and VSTIs, or perhaps someone has experience with
> Kontakt samples, they are en vogue now, I believe.
>    Kindest regards
>            Julien

Hi

If Sampletekk's pianos are anything to go by (I own their Black Grand,
White Grand and White Sister), their other instruments should be stunning.

There are some orchestral Giga format samples out there under the name
Prosonus. I believe they are quite old. I've read reviews that suggest
they are okay (i.e. by no means great but not atrocious) and that's the
experience I've had with the one subset I got (orchestral percussion and
harp, but I desperately needed a cheap harp, plus celeste, tubular bells
and glockenspiel always come in handy).

Just doing a quick googling, I turned up a 5-CD orchestral set, but it's
a fairly hefty $295, here's the link:

http://www.soundsonline.com/Advanced-Orchestra-SET-GIGA-pr-BS-228_V1-5.html

I've just found that same set on a different site for $198, along with
quite a few other Giga format sets:

http://www.eastwestsamples.com/

...and you can find all the Giga samples from the dropdown menu.

I'm sure there'll be other stuff out there.

Cheers

Q
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[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton@...> wrote:

> I'de like to have some info/pointers on samples for classical music
> (especially orchestra) in the situations when one has to provide a
> 'virtual' performance.
>
> There are plenty of synths and stuff done with linux for linux, I myself
> use puredata extensively for electionic music, but this is a different
> dcenario.
>
> I've lately tried the linuxsampler stuff (qsanpler etc.), and was
> impressed by the freebie gig piano on the website, but it looks the gig
> format is quite dead at the moment, I wonder if there is a second hand
> market for those, as it looks they were very popular before tascam
> closed down the gigasampler thing.
> For classical music, searching around it seems that currently SoundFonts
> are the best supported form of samples on Linux.
> I'm not necessarily talking of free stuff: quality sampling is a
> laborious and skilful process and paying for good samples is fair enough
> for a (digital) musician, so I'm talking about support: in fact it seems
> that most packages are stand-alones for windows or mac.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Lorenzo.

Yeah, it's disappointing for those of us that were long time GS users
to see what happened Gst after it was bought by Tascam. Bad management
along with a bad economy took its toll and the long time sampler died.

Personally I would confuse the Gig format with the ability to use it.
I expect that Kontakt will support it as long as that product or a
successor survives. Kontakt is probably my next big purchase but I'm
not active enough right now to warrant the cost.

As for orchestral samples there are lots. Garritan makes a fairly low
cost player that actually gets bundled with some other products. I got
a copy with a recent Acid Pro update. In orchestral I don't think it
makes sense to go cheap. If you have (very) deep pockets then look
into the Vienna suites.

Good luck,
Mark
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[lorenzosu]

> As for orchestral samples there are lots. Garritan makes a fairly low
> cost player that actually gets bundled with some other products. I got
> a copy with a recent Acid Pro update. In orchestral I don't think it
> makes sense to go cheap. If you have (very) deep pockets then look
> into the Vienna suites.
>
>  
But in this case what do you do use Wine?

Lorenzo
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[Viktor Mastoridis]

If you have (very) deep pockets then look

into the Vienna suites.

Would Vienna work on Linux?

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[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton@...> wrote:

>
>> As for orchestral samples there are lots. Garritan makes a fairly low
>> cost player that actually gets bundled with some other products. I got
>> a copy with a recent Acid Pro update. In orchestral I don't think it
>> makes sense to go cheap. If you have (very) deep pockets then look
>> into the Vienna suites.
>>
>>
>
> But in this case what do you do use Wine?
>
> Lorenzo
>

No, I use Windows for Windows apps. I use Linux for Linux apps.  I
have a couple of dedicated outboard machines running Windows for
VST's, samplers and the like. To me using Windows this way is no
different than using a hardware synth. I prefer to make music vs make
political statements.

In my world these days:

Gentoo: Ardour, Jamin, a few synths like ChucK & Zyn
Windows: GigaStudio, Battery, Acid Pro, Guitar Rig, an old version or
Reaktor Session

Some Windows audio apps will run under Wine but I've pretty much given
up on using that myself. Too much work and not enough support.

In case you're not aware there is a free downloadable Kontakt Player.
Not sure if it has fixed sounds or whether you can load your own Gigs
but you might check out whether it runs under Wine. My experience with
NI apps is that they mostly work in Wine, or used to. Battery runs
really well, Guitar Rig not at all, Reaktor Session mostly.

I just don't have the patience to want to deal with the few problems
that come up when I have a few old Windows boxes and too maky sound
cards just sitting here gathering dust.

- Mark
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[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@...> wrote:
<SNIP>
I use Windows for Windows apps. I use Linux for Linux apps.
<SNIP>

While I don't use Wine I know that others here do, and in this area I
believe Geoff Beasley was, in the past, successfully using Kontakt
under Wine. Geoff isn't quite as active here as he used to be (heck -
neither am I) but maybe he'll read this and comment, or maybe one of
you will Kontakt him directly to find out about the current status of
this NI product running on Linux.

HTH,
Mark
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[lorenzosu]

Dear Mark, all,

First of all thanks for all the copious information you provide.

No, I use Windows for Windows apps. I use Linux for Linux apps.  I
have a couple of dedicated outboard machines running Windows for
VST's, samplers and the like. To me using Windows this way is no
different than using a hardware synth. I prefer to make music vs make
political statements.

  

Not sure what you mean with 'political statements', this is the Linux Audio User list so I guess it's fair enough to ask what software/solutions run on linux, anyway I do see your point.
I use Windows VSTis (I find LADSPA and LV2 very good for effects) through dssi-vst (guess it's using the Wine layer somehow).

Just out of curiosity: I see in your specific case you have the dusting windows machines, but in general using windows machines as 'hardware' is really cheaper (giving for granted that you are paying all the software licenses and the cost of the PCs) than buying, say, a hardware sampler?

In case you're not aware there is a free downloadable Kontakt Player.
Not sure if it has fixed sounds or whether you can load your own Gigs
but you might check out whether it runs under Wine. My experience with
NI apps is that they mostly work in Wine, or used to. Battery runs
really well, Guitar Rig not at all, Reaktor Session mostly.

  

Wavosaur (simple yet valuable freeware soundforge-like wave editor) also works well.

Kind regards,
Lorenzo.

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[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton@...> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> Just out of curiosity: I see in your specific case you have the dusting
> windows machines, but in general using windows machines as 'hardware' is
> really cheaper (giving for granted that you are paying all the software
> licenses and the cost of the PCs) than buying, say, a hardware sampler?
>
<SNIP>

Not if you have to buy the hardware, but if the hardware is sitting
there gathering dust and there's a piece of software I want to run
then certainly it's cheaper and more flexible than buying a hardware
sampler. Kontakt is about $400 at most retailers. I don't know of any
external hardware samplers that have the flexibility of Kontakt and
would be in that price range. Please consider that I've already
purchased GigaStudio so today I have $0 cost at.

The other thing to consider is the per machine load of trying to run
something like Ardour and then piling lots of soft synths and samplers
on the same CPU. This sort of setup *must* hit the limits of the
machine faster showing up in things like xruns, or worse, and the last
thing I want when doing a recording, or even just mixing, is any
chance of a hiccup...

None the less, things like Wine and the energy of young folks like you
can result in great things I'm sure. For old guys like me not so
much... ;-)

- Mark
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[Eric Steinberg]

The OP has a very good point.  GIG is moribund; there's almost no free
content.  There was a great orchestral brass section that I used once
and can no longer find.  Very sad.

On 11/1/09, Q <lists@...> wrote:

> Julien Claassen wrote:
>> Hello Lorenzo!
>>    For the GigaSampler there were a few Garritan products, I seem to
>> remember,
>> that they were quite nice. they definitely had some strings,I know one of
>> the
>> LinuxSampler guys used those strings in a piece.
>>    Beyond that: I know, that sampletekk has a nice set of orchestral
>> brass,
>> which suite me fine, even for not so orchestral work. But then I'm
>> stomped.
>> There should be a second hand market for the old GigaSampler/GigaStudio
>> products, which have gone out of sale.
>>    Besides that I'd say Wine and VSTIs, or perhaps someone has experience
>> with
>> Kontakt samples, they are en vogue now, I believe.
>>    Kindest regards
>>            Julien
>
> Hi
>
> If Sampletekk's pianos are anything to go by (I own their Black Grand,
> White Grand and White Sister), their other instruments should be stunning.
>
> There are some orchestral Giga format samples out there under the name
> Prosonus. I believe they are quite old. I've read reviews that suggest
> they are okay (i.e. by no means great but not atrocious) and that's the
> experience I've had with the one subset I got (orchestral percussion and
> harp, but I desperately needed a cheap harp, plus celeste, tubular bells
> and glockenspiel always come in handy).
>
> Just doing a quick googling, I turned up a 5-CD orchestral set, but it's
> a fairly hefty $295, here's the link:
>
> http://www.soundsonline.com/Advanced-Orchestra-SET-GIGA-pr-BS-228_V1-5.html
>
> I've just found that same set on a different site for $198, along with
> quite a few other Giga format sets:
>
> http://www.eastwestsamples.com/
>
> ...and you can find all the Giga samples from the dropdown menu.
>
> I'm sure there'll be other stuff out there.
>
> Cheers
>
> Q
> _______________________________________________
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> Linux-audio-user@...
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>

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[Josh Lawrence]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton@...> wrote:
> I'de like to have some info/pointers on samples for classical music
> (especially orchestra) in the situations when one has to provide a
> 'virtual' performance.

If I were in your shoes, and had VERY deep pockets, I would be more
inclined to look at the Muse Receptor, in one of their bundled
configurations:

http://www.museresearch.com/receptor2_komplete_inside.php

Doing something like this would give you access to Kontakt, which is a
very popular sampler right now.

These machines are definitely pro quality, but expensive.  However, I
would much rather buy something like this than buy a computer,
install/configure Windows, install the sample library, etc.  With
something like this, you could take it out on the road and not mess up
your computer.

Bonus feature:  It runs Linux.  :)  I think some of the Muse folks
hang out on this list, so you might want to talk to them.

(Disclaimer:  I do not work for Muse, I do not own a Receptor.  I want
to, tho.  :)

--
Josh Lawrence
http://www.hardbop200.com
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[lorenzosu]

Dear Josh,

> and had VERY deep pockets,
>  
Not that deep :)... Also I guess one would have to further invest in the
samples/plugins.

So to try and summarise (please take this as a completely 'neutral'
consideration no 'linux, gnu extremist' etc simply trying to clear the
situation):

Software-wise the only sample technology supported 'natively' in Linux
is SoundFont and Giga.
The former offering many freebies of different quality and some
commercial products, the latter possibly offering good better sound and
performance (?) quality but hoard to find (albeit commercially) due to
current 'executable plug-in' hype.

Midi-driven hardware is of course 'supported' (be it dedicated sampler,
windows/mac machine used asmidi  'hardware', keyboard sampl etc.) with
all the costs and benefits of having an external dedicated piece of
hardware of course.

Does this depict the picture fairly enough?

This brings to another question:
What is the situazion of the SFZ standard
(http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/sfz.asp) and the alleged
collaboration and will to work on this by Garritan
(http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/04/01/garritan-rescues-giga-sampling-technology-talks-open-standards/)?
Support for sfz in linuxsampler seems to be alive but slow:
http://bb.linuxsampler.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=186&start=30
And again what support will there be for the format?

Hope I haven't bored anyone :)
Lorenzo


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[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Lorenzo <lsutton@...> wrote:
> Dear Josh,
>
>> and had VERY deep pockets,
>>
> Not that deep :)... Also I guess one would have to further invest in the
> samples/plugins.

What? You don't want to spend $12,460 to buy the Symphonic Cube? With
792,953 samples that's only 1.5 cents/sample. Actually quite cheap!
;-)

>
> So to try and summarise (please take this as a completely 'neutral'
> consideration no 'linux, gnu extremist' etc simply trying to clear the
> situation):
>
> Software-wise the only sample technology supported 'natively' in Linux
> is SoundFont and Giga.
> The former offering many freebies of different quality and some
> commercial products, the latter possibly offering good better sound and
> performance (?) quality but hoard to find (albeit commercially) due to
> current 'executable plug-in' hype.

I don't think it's quite that dire. The obvious one is .wav which is
used by Acid Pro. I've not had any trouble loading Acid loops in
Linux, although there aren't any mature tools to really use them
right.

If we limit ourselves to orchestral sounds then .gig is probably the
best supported today, albeit by a non-GPL Linux program. I think .gig
viability is possibly in flux with Tascam's exit. Keep in mind that
while the OP was asking about classical sounds, there is a lot more to
sampling than just classical, and a lot more to classical than just
orchestral.

I looked up the formats supported by Kontakt so we might have a wider
reference to discuss.

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/kontakt-4/?page=972

I suspect that one format we'd want to dig into a bit might be .exs.
That's the native format supported by the Logic Pro EXS24 sampler on
the Mac so it's probably going to be around a while. I simply don't
know that anyone has looked into how it works.


>
> Midi-driven hardware is of course 'supported' (be it dedicated sampler,
> windows/mac machine used asmidi  'hardware', keyboard sampl etc.) with
> all the costs and benefits of having an external dedicated piece of
> hardware of course.
>
> Does this depict the picture fairly enough?

Seems fair enough to me.

>
> This brings to another question:
> What is the situazion of the SFZ standard
> (http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/sfz.asp) and the alleged
> collaboration and will to work on this by Garritan
> (http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/04/01/garritan-rescues-giga-sampling-technology-talks-open-standards/)?
> Support for sfz in linuxsampler seems to be alive but slow:
> http://bb.linuxsampler.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=186&start=30
> And again what support will there be for the format?

I really don't think it's that the format *won't* be supported. If NI
supports it, which they do, then it's supported. The question might be
whether future sound file developers support it. Reasonably, there
will be fewer over time.

>
> Hope I haven't bored anyone :)
> Lorenzo

:-) :-) Not me obviously! ;-)
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[Jostein Chr. Andersen-3]

söndag november 1 2009 21.37.15 skrev  Lorenzo:
> I'de like to have some info/pointers on samples for classical music
> (especially orchestra) in the situations when one has to provide a
> 'virtual' performance.

I have bought Giga samples from Dan Dean and Big Fish Audio and are very happy
with them, but have not tried the strings (are planning to buy London Solo
Strings in Gig-format). Here are the links (and listen to the samples, sounds
really good!):

  Big Fish Audio, London Solo Strings:
    http://www.bigfishaudio.com/4DCGI/detail.html?845

  Dan Dean, Solo Strings:
    http://www.dandeanpro.com/sample_lib/product_detail.php?pid=12

Jostein


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[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Jostein Chr. Andersen <jostein@...> wrote:

> söndag november 1 2009 21.37.15 skrev  Lorenzo:
>> I'de like to have some info/pointers on samples for classical music
>> (especially orchestra) in the situations when one has to provide a
>> 'virtual' performance.
>
> I have bought Giga samples from Dan Dean and Big Fish Audio and are very happy
> with them, but have not tried the strings (are planning to buy London Solo
> Strings in Gig-format). Here are the links (and listen to the samples, sounds
> really good!):
>
>  Big Fish Audio, London Solo Strings:
>    http://www.bigfishaudio.com/4DCGI/detail.html?845
>
>  Dan Dean, Solo Strings:
>    http://www.dandeanpro.com/sample_lib/product_detail.php?pid=12
>
> Jostein
>

I've got a copy of the same Dan Dean and find them pretty reasonable.

It's disappointing that Worra's Place is now completely gone, or I
can't find it. It was a good resource for small, free Lo-fi type gigs.
Also GlassTrax used to sell Bigga Gigga of which I bought maybe 10 of
the libraries - mostly synths like Mellotron, Arp, String Boxes, etc.
they were fun but don't seem available anymore. I'm not even sure if
Garritan actually sells the GOS/GOS Lite products anymore or whether
it's just the GPO product now. I have a copy of GOS Lite but found it
difficult to use well. Nice sounds though.

I've been so focused on using what I own that I hadn't noticed what a
mess is for the new sampler user. Seems to me the Linux community
might do well to focus on one or two players - GPO and maybe the
Kontakt player - and then make sure they work well on Linux using wine
or whatever. Even non-GPL LinuxSampler won't help you if you can't buy
samples anymore...

- Mark
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[zotz]

On Wednesday 04 November 2009 11:49:47 Mark Knecht wrote:
> Even non-GPL LinuxSampler won't help you if you can't buy
> samples anymore...

Any thoughts on a collective fund to create Free and perhaps copyleft?
samples?

Perhaps an angle would be that they are available gratis with a copyleft
license or for sale with some sort of royalty free license and those funds
could be used to fund the creation of more sample libraries...

Who knows what the economics of the creation of sample libraries are like?

all the best,

drew
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[Daniel Joshua Worth]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:01 AM, drew Roberts <zotz@...> wrote:

On Wednesday 04 November 2009 11:49:47 Mark Knecht wrote:
> Even non-GPL LinuxSampler won't help you if you can't buy
> samples anymore...

Any thoughts on a collective fund to create Free and perhaps copyleft?
samples?

Perhaps an angle would be that they are available gratis with a copyleft
license or for sale with some sort of royalty free license and those funds
could be used to fund the creation of more sample libraries...

Who knows what the economics of the creation of sample libraries are like?

all the best,

drew

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There was a project on sourceforge at one point to create a free orchestral library but I don't know what ever happened to it. It seems dead to me. It's still listed on the linuxsampler web site.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/openorchestra/

Dan

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