|
 Non-functional Tremolos
Hi Carl,
It will take me a while to understand the difference in tremulants.
I'm accustomed to the subtract-50-and-select-another-rank approach.
But when I get it figured out I will update our Beginners Guide.
Okay?
And may I acknowledge your contribution?
Thanks,
Bill Skees
music: http://BillSkeesRecordingArtist.com/Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: CarlDu < carl-lauretta_dubois@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Non-functional Tremolos
To: jorgan-user@...
Success!
With the help of John Beach, I finally have the Tremolos functioning in
Bruce Miles' English Organ.
Earlier today I read in Bill Skees' "A Beginners Guide to jOrgan"
volume 1,
that "Your sound cards must not only be Creative Labs Sound Blaster or
Sound
Blaster Audigy sound cards, but...they can only be certain models. The
official jOrgan website lists the cards at
http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/sound:hardware:creative ...."
Because my Creative SoundBlaster Audigy SE-VARPak model SB0570 was not
in
Bill's list, I began to doubt whether the English Organ tremolos would
ever
work.
But after reading John's latest message (below), I was emboldened to
delete
the 18 default lines of Engaged and Disengaged messages from each of the
three Tremolos, replacing them with the two lines he suggested. So
there are
now only four message lines for each Tremolo. After saving the changed
eorg_e104_v3.4SB.disposition file and reloading it, I was delighted to
find
the Tremolos are now working. The only exceptions that I know of are the
Fanfare Trumpet 8, the Tuba 8, and the Cornet V, all reed ranks on the
Solo
manual. My conclusion is that these three ranks do not have tremmed
samples
in the eorg105tremtest.sf2 file loaded into my SoundBlaster sound card.
Nothing succeeds like success!
================ latest personal message received ===============
John Beach wrote:
The English Organ soundfont has the presets set to frequency 5.001 for
Tremolo and they just need to have the modulation message. In jOrgan,
Engaged Set 176 Set 1 Set 38
(from about 38 to 50 is good for that frequency, I set mine to 43) and
Disengaged Set 176 Set 1 Set 0
Zero turns it completely off. If you have it set to 127 it will
produce a
Tremulant but it magnifies the effect disproportionately. I hope this is
helpful.
================ previous personal message received ===============
John Beach wrote:
If you are using Bruce Miles' English Organ, the soundfont uses Program
Changes that have Tremulant settings within the soundfont presets.
Instead
of your having to send a MIDI message, use Set 176 Set 1 Set 50 (or
whatever
rate you like). The English Organ disposition uses Program Change
messages
to activate the Rank with the Tremmed Samples.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Non-functional Tremolos
Bill,
There are TWO different techniques for achieving tremolo with soundfonts:
1. Separate tremmed and un-tremmed (NT) sample sets (patches,
presets) built into the soundfont file for each tremmed rank,
selectable by patch number with the MIDI ProgChg command.
2. A low-frequency-oscillation (LFO) applied by the sound module
(Creative or FLuidsynth) engine to the volume level and/or
the pitch of a NON-TREMMED sample set to create an artificial
tremolo (or vibrato) effect, adjustable with the MIDI CC 1
command.
Carl is using technique #2 where the sound module (Creative Sound card
or Fluidsynth) reacts to the MIDI CC 1 command to set the intensity of
the LFO oscillation to 0 (OFF) through 127 (max.).
The Bruce Miles (MidiTzer) soundfonts do NOT use CC 1. Rather they use
the patch change method -- with a completely different MIDI command --
to select between TWO different "presets" or sample sets within the
soundfont file, the tremmed set being addressed with a patch number that
is 50 less than the patch number of the un-tremmed preset (sample set)
for the SAME rank.
CLW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Skees wrote:
> It will take me a while to understand the difference in tremulants.
> I'm accustomed to the subtract-50-and-select-another-rank approach.
> But when I get it figured out I will update our Beginners Guide.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Non-functional Tremolos
Hi, Lynn,
Will this re-ignite the interminable discussion on how important (Or not) it is for all the trems to be in sync. no matter when the individual notes start?
Have fun,
Roy.
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Lynn Walls <lwalls@...> wrote:
From: Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Non-functional Tremolos
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 10:20 PM
Bill, There are TWO different techniques for achieving tremolo with soundfonts: 1.
Separate tremmed and un-tremmed (NT) sample sets (patches, presets) built into the soundfont file for each tremmed rank, selectable by patch number with the MIDI ProgChg command. 2. A low-frequency-oscillation (LFO) applied by the sound module (Creative or FLuidsynth) engine to the volume level and/or the pitch of a NON-TREMMED sample set to create an artificial tremolo (or vibrato) effect, adjustable with the MIDI CC 1 command. Carl is using technique #2 where the sound module (Creative Sound card or Fluidsynth) reacts to the MIDI CC 1 command to set the intensity of the LFO oscillation to 0 (OFF) through 127 (max.). The Bruce Miles (MidiTzer) soundfonts do NOT use CC 1. Rather they use the patch change method -- with a completely different MIDI command -- to select between TWO different "presets" or sample
sets within the soundfont file, the tremmed set being addressed with a patch number that is 50 less than the patch number of the un-tremmed preset (sample set) for the SAME rank. CLW -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Skees wrote: > It will take me a while to understand the difference in tremulants. > I'm accustomed to the subtract-50-and-select-another-rank approach. > But when I get it figured out I will update our Beginners Guide. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________ jOrgan-user mailing list jOrgan-user@...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Non-functional Tremolos
I don't think so Roy. That discussion is more meaningful over on the
VTPO forum where Theatre Organs and heavy trem is important. Sampled
trems are not worth the trouble in the Classical organ world.
And whether or not you have in-sync trems or not seems to be largely a
matter of taste and trade-off. That is, you trade off the realism of
sampled trems with somewhat varying LFO phase by note-played time,
against artificially induced trem effect where all notes being played
under trem are running in locked trem phase, paced by the sound module's
internal LFO frequency generator.
CLW
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy Radford wrote:
> Hi, Lynn,
>
> Will this re-ignite the interminable discussion on how
> important (Or not) it is for all the trems to be in sync. no matter when
> the individual notes start?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi, Lynn,
I like the rich, multi-tremolo effect of French accordions and some electronic organs. The trouble is they have 3 reeds on every note, all at slightly different pitches. You'd probably have to bend them differently for every note, or at least 1/3 octave or so.
The musette in Kent Allman's soundfont for SymphIV is a pretty good example. I presume that is sampled from a real, good-quality accordion.
Have fun,
Roy.
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Lynn Walls <lwalls@...> wrote:
From: Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Non-functional Tremolos
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 11:30 PM
I don't think so Roy. That discussion is more meaningful over on the VTPO forum where Theatre Organs and heavy trem is important. Sampled trems are not worth the trouble in the Classical organ world. And whether or not you have in-sync trems or not seems to be largely a matter of taste and trade-off. That is, you trade off the realism of sampled trems with somewhat varying LFO phase by note-played time, against artificially induced trem effect where all notes being played under trem are running in locked trem phase, paced by the sound module's internal LFO frequency generator. CLW --------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy Radford wrote: > Hi, Lynn, > >
Will this re-ignite the interminable discussion on how > important (Or not) it is for all the trems to be in sync. no matter when > the individual notes start? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________ jOrgan-user mailing list jOrgan-user@...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Greetings Gents...
..I have been quiet on trems in general. I am going to pass on some
observations. I have been fortunate to be around the Paramount Wurlitzer
for number of years. The question I asked myself was: what makes a large
organ sound large... other than the obvious? The standard generally used
in setting trem speeds and depths for various ranks is an instrumental or vocal
standard. If the trems are running... when a key is pressed
the modulation cycle is where the cycle is. And with 18 trems... they
are all at a different place in that cycle.
In the home environment I am not necessarily looking for a
loud sound... but one that sounds smooth. Consider this. Three string
ranks. Two in normal Celeste tuning and the third an Unde Maris tuning.
All tremed slightly. The beating of the tuning and the trems out of sync
is a pleasing sound to me. Slight variations in pitch... reeds 1 or 2
digits sharp for instance. Three or four Vox's ever so slightly out
of tune with each other... can make small ensembles sound wonderfully like a
larger instrument.
In general.. the jOrgan relay gives us the ability to think
larger.
Kindest Regards
Marc-Paul
In a message dated 10/9/2009 2:12:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
roy.radford42@... writes:
Hi,
Lynn,
I like the rich, multi-tremolo effect of French accordions and some
electronic organs. The trouble is they have 3 reeds on every note, all
at slightly different pitches. You'd probably have to bend them
differently for every note, or at least 1/3 octave or so.
The musette in Kent Allman's soundfont for SymphIV is a
pretty good example. I presume that is sampled from a real, good-quality
accordion.
Have
fun,
Roy.
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Lynn Walls
<lwalls@...> wrote:
From:
Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user]
Non-functional Tremolos
To:
jorgan-user@...
Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009,
11:30 PM
I don't think so Roy. That discussion is
more meaningful over on the VTPO forum where Theatre Organs and
heavy trem is important. Sampled trems are not worth the
trouble in the Classical organ world. And whether or not you
have in-sync trems or not seems to be largely a matter of taste
and trade-off. That is, you trade off the realism of sampled
trems with somewhat varying LFO phase by note-played time, against
artificially induced trem effect where all notes being played
under trem are running in locked trem phase, paced by the sound
module's internal LFO frequency
generator. CLW --------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy
Radford wrote: > Hi, Lynn, > >
Will this re-ignite the
interminable discussion on how > important (Or not) it is for
all the trems to be in sync. no matter when > the individual
notes
start? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is
the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to
market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12,
2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________ jOrgan-user
mailing list jOrgan-user@...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only
developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing
skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of
the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register
now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user
mailing
list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
out of tune ranks are called celestes, most pipe organs are
tremed by the chest providing the air supply. The would mean (for accuracy
and realism to pipe organs) that the whole organ be on the same shakey wind
supply. Theater organ usual have a tibia trem that is faster an more
pronounced than the main trem. This is because the tibia are winded
separately.
Patrick
From: Roy Radford
[mailto:roy.radford42@...]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009
12:12 AM
To: jorgan-user@...
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi,
Lynn,
I like the rich, multi-tremolo effect of French accordions and some
electronic organs. The trouble is they have 3 reeds on every note, all at
slightly different pitches. You'd probably have to bend them differently
for every note, or at least 1/3 octave or so.
The musette in Kent Allman's soundfont for SymphIV is a pretty good
example. I presume that is sampled from a real, good-quality
accordion.
Have
fun,
Roy.
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Lynn Walls
<lwalls@...> wrote:
From:
Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user]
Non-functional Tremolos
To:
jorgan-user@...
Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009,
11:30 PM
I don't think so Roy. That discussion is more
meaningful over on the VTPO forum where Theatre Organs and heavy
trem is important. Sampled trems are not worth the trouble in
the Classical organ world. And whether or not you have in-sync
trems or not seems to be largely a matter of taste and
trade-off. That is, you trade off the realism of sampled trems
with somewhat varying LFO phase by note-played time, against
artificially induced trem effect where all notes being played under
trem are running in locked trem phase, paced by the sound module's
internal LFO frequency
generator. CLW --------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy
Radford wrote: > Hi, Lynn, > >
Will this re-ignite the
interminable discussion on how > important (Or not) it is for all
the trems to be in sync. no matter when > the individual notes
start? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is
the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009.
Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________ jOrgan-user
mailing list jOrgan-user@...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi, Patrick,
Yes, that's true for pipe organs, but instruments such as accordions and harmonicas use larger offsets to produce a tremolo, rather than the slower celeste beat.
Have fun,
Roy.
--- On Fri, 9/10/09, Patrick Lane <pup@...> wrote:
From: Patrick Lane <pup@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 5:54 PM
out of tune ranks are called celestes, most pipe organs are
tremed by the chest providing the air supply. The would mean (for accuracy
and realism to pipe organs) that the whole organ be on the same shakey wind
supply. Theater organ usual have a tibia trem that is faster an more
pronounced than the main trem. This is because the tibia are winded
separately.
Patrick
From: Roy Radford
[mailto:roy.radford42@...]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009
12:12 AM
To: jorgan-user@...
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi,
Lynn,
I like the rich, multi-tremolo effect of French accordions and some
electronic organs. The trouble is they have 3 reeds on every note, all at
slightly different pitches. You'd probably have to bend them differently
for every note, or at least 1/3 octave or so.
The musette in Kent Allman's soundfont for SymphIV is a pretty good
example. I presume that is sampled from a real, good-quality
accordion.
Have
fun,
Roy.
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Lynn Walls
<lwalls@...> wrote:
From:
Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user]
Non-functional Tremolos
To:
jorgan-user@...
Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009,
11:30 PM
I don't think so Roy. That discussion is more
meaningful over on the VTPO forum where Theatre Organs and heavy
trem is important. Sampled trems are not worth the trouble in
the Classical organ world. And whether or not you have in-sync
trems or not seems to be largely a matter of taste and
trade-off. That is, you trade off the realism of sampled trems
with somewhat varying LFO phase by note-played time, against
artificially induced trem effect where all notes being played under
trem are running in locked trem phase, paced by the sound module's
internal LFO frequency
generator. CLW --------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy
Radford wrote: > Hi, Lynn, > >
Will this re-ignite the
interminable discussion on how > important (Or not) it is for all
the trems to be in sync. no matter when > the individual notes
start? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is
the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009.
Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________ jOrgan-user
mailing list jOrgan-user@...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Roy,
Interesting!
I have an old pump organ that has two sets of reeds, when
used together they produce a nice celeste effect. It also has a rotating
fan apparatus that produces a tremolo for the reeds closest to it. Also nice
because the 4ft set of reeds are more effected than the other more distant sets
(a doppler effect which is slow enough to fit into the
Celeste catagory below).
My understanding of the "technical" definition of the three
terms are:
Tremolo = a variation in loudness at a rate of 3 to 8 times a
second.
Vibrato = a variation in pitch at a rate of 3 to 8 time a
second.
Celeste = a combination of two sound sources at slightly
different pitches as the "beating" at the rate of 1 to 2 time a second or
less.
I watch harmonica players wiggling their hands to produce
Tremolo. I think that using reeds that beat more the 2 times a second
would sound horribly out of tune and discordant. It never enered my mind
that accordians used wide celestes to effect a tremolo other that the
player could quickly jiggle the air supply with the left hand. I will be
googling "accordian vibrato," to see what I can find out.
Thanks
Patrick
From: Roy Radford
[mailto:roy.radford42@...]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009
2:49 PM
To: jorgan-user@...
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi,
Patrick,
Yes, that's true for pipe organs, but instruments such as accordions and
harmonicas use larger offsets to produce a tremolo, rather than the slower
celeste beat.
Have
fun,
Roy.
---
On Fri, 9/10/09, Patrick Lane <pup@...>
wrote:
From:
Patrick Lane <pup@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user]
Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
To:
jorgan-user@...
Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 5:54
PM
out of tune ranks are called celestes,
most pipe organs are tremed by the chest providing the air supply.
The would mean (for accuracy and realism to pipe organs) that the whole
organ be on the same shakey wind supply. Theater organ usual have
a tibia trem that is faster an more pronounced than the main trem.
This is because the tibia are winded separately.
Patrick
From: Roy Radford
[mailto:roy.radford42@...]
Sent: Friday, October 09,
2009 12:12 AM
To:
jorgan-user@...
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user]
Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi,
Lynn,
I like the rich, multi-tremolo effect of French accordions and
some electronic organs. The trouble is they have 3 reeds on every
note, all at slightly different pitches. You'd probably have to
bend them differently for every note, or at least 1/3 octave or
so.
The musette in Kent Allman's
soundfont for SymphIV is a pretty good example. I presume that is
sampled from a real, good-quality
accordion.
Have
fun,
Roy.
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Lynn Walls
<lwalls@...> wrote:
From:
Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Non-functional Tremolos
To:
jorgan-user@...
Date: Thursday, 8 October,
2009, 11:30 PM
I don't think so Roy. That discussion
is more meaningful over on the VTPO forum where Theatre
Organs and heavy trem is important. Sampled trems are
not worth the trouble in the Classical organ world. And
whether or not you have in-sync trems or not seems to be largely
a matter of taste and trade-off. That is, you trade
off the realism of sampled trems with somewhat varying LFO
phase by note-played time, against artificially induced trem
effect where all notes being played under trem are running
in locked trem phase, paced by the sound module's internal
LFO frequency
generator. CLW --------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy
Radford wrote: > Hi, Lynn, > >
Will this
re-ignite the interminable discussion on how > important
(Or not) it is for all the trems to be in sync. no matter when
> the individual notes
start? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile
applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us
from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________ jOrgan-user
mailing list jOrgan-user@...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is
the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009.
Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Sorry about the reference to (squeeaz
box)
Patrick
From: Roy Radford
[mailto:roy.radford42@...]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009
2:49 PM
To: jorgan-user@...
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi,
Patrick,
Yes, that's true for pipe organs, but instruments such as accordions and
harmonicas use larger offsets to produce a tremolo, rather than the slower
celeste beat.
Have
fun,
Roy.
---
On Fri, 9/10/09, Patrick Lane <pup@...>
wrote:
From:
Patrick Lane <pup@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user]
Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
To:
jorgan-user@...
Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 5:54
PM
out of tune ranks are called celestes,
most pipe organs are tremed by the chest providing the air supply.
The would mean (for accuracy and realism to pipe organs) that the whole
organ be on the same shakey wind supply. Theater organ usual have
a tibia trem that is faster an more pronounced than the main trem.
This is because the tibia are winded separately.
Patrick
From: Roy Radford
[mailto:roy.radford42@...]
Sent: Friday, October 09,
2009 12:12 AM
To:
jorgan-user@...
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user]
Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi,
Lynn,
I like the rich, multi-tremolo effect of French accordions and
some electronic organs. The trouble is they have 3 reeds on every
note, all at slightly different pitches. You'd probably have to
bend them differently for every note, or at least 1/3 octave or
so.
The musette in Kent Allman's
soundfont for SymphIV is a pretty good example. I presume that is
sampled from a real, good-quality
accordion.
Have
fun,
Roy.
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Lynn Walls
<lwalls@...> wrote:
From:
Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Non-functional Tremolos
To:
jorgan-user@...
Date: Thursday, 8 October,
2009, 11:30 PM
I don't think so Roy. That discussion
is more meaningful over on the VTPO forum where Theatre
Organs and heavy trem is important. Sampled trems are
not worth the trouble in the Classical organ world. And
whether or not you have in-sync trems or not seems to be largely
a matter of taste and trade-off. That is, you trade
off the realism of sampled trems with somewhat varying LFO
phase by note-played time, against artificially induced trem
effect where all notes being played under trem are running
in locked trem phase, paced by the sound module's internal
LFO frequency
generator. CLW --------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy
Radford wrote: > Hi, Lynn, > >
Will this
re-ignite the interminable discussion on how > important
(Or not) it is for all the trems to be in sync. no matter when
> the individual notes
start? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile
applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us
from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________ jOrgan-user
mailing list jOrgan-user@...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is
the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009.
Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
|
Re: Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi, Patrick,
Well yes, there are/were harmonica players of the calibre of Larry Adler, and accordionists such as Tolefson (World champion accordionist more years ago than I would care to guess!) who could create DIY tremolo as you suggest. Mere mortals require a little mechanical help!
Have fun,
Roy.
--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Patrick Lane <pup@...> wrote:
From: Patrick Lane <pup@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Saturday, 10 October, 2009,
8:30 PM
Roy,
Interesting!
I have an old pump organ that has two sets of reeds, when
used together they produce a nice celeste effect. It also has a rotating
fan apparatus that produces a tremolo for the reeds closest to it. Also nice
because the 4ft set of reeds are more effected than the other more distant sets
(a doppler effect which is slow enough to fit into the
Celeste catagory below).
My understanding of the "technical" definition of the three
terms are:
Tremolo = a variation in loudness at a rate of 3 to 8 times a
second.
Vibrato = a variation in pitch at a rate of 3 to 8 time a
second.
Celeste = a combination of two sound sources at slightly
different pitches as the "beating" at the rate of 1 to 2 time a second or
less.
I watch harmonica players wiggling their hands to produce
Tremolo. I think that using reeds that beat more the 2 times a second
would sound horribly out of tune and discordant. It never enered my mind
that accordians used wide celestes to effect a tremolo other that the
player could quickly jiggle the air supply with the left hand. I will be
googling "accordian vibrato," to see what I can find out.
Thanks
Patrick
From: Roy Radford
[mailto:roy.radford42@...]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009
2:49 PM
To: jorgan-user@...
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi,
Patrick,
Yes, that's true for pipe organs, but instruments such as accordions and
harmonicas use larger offsets to produce a tremolo, rather than the slower
celeste beat.
Have
fun,
Roy.
---
On Fri, 9/10/09, Patrick Lane <pup@...>
wrote:
From:
Patrick Lane <pup@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user]
Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
To:
jorgan-user@...
Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 5:54
PM
out of tune ranks are called celestes,
most pipe organs are tremed by the chest providing the air supply.
The would mean (for accuracy and realism to pipe organs) that the whole
organ be on the same shakey wind supply. Theater organ usual have
a tibia trem that is faster an more pronounced than the main trem.
This is because the tibia are winded separately.
Patrick
From: Roy Radford
[mailto:roy.radford42@...]
Sent: Friday, October 09,
2009 12:12 AM
To:
jorgan-user@...
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user]
Slightly OT Non-functional Tremolos
Hi,
Lynn,
I like the rich, multi-tremolo effect of French accordions and
some electronic organs. The trouble is they have 3 reeds on every
note, all at slightly different pitches. You'd probably have to
bend them differently for every note, or at least 1/3 octave or
so.
The musette in Kent Allman's
soundfont for SymphIV is a pretty good example. I presume that is
sampled from a real, good-quality
accordion.
Have
fun,
Roy.
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Lynn Walls
<lwalls@...> wrote:
From:
Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re:
[jOrgan-user] Non-functional Tremolos
To:
jorgan-user@...
Date: Thursday, 8 October,
2009, 11:30 PM
I don't think so Roy. That discussion
is more meaningful over on the VTPO forum where Theatre
Organs and heavy trem is important. Sampled trems are
not worth the trouble in the Classical organ world. And
whether or not you have in-sync trems or not seems to be largely
a matter of taste and trade-off. That is, you trade
off the realism of sampled trems with somewhat varying LFO
phase by note-played time, against artificially induced trem
effect where all notes being played under trem are running
in locked trem phase, paced by the sound module's internal
LFO frequency
generator. CLW --------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy
Radford wrote: > Hi, Lynn, > >
Will this
re-ignite the interminable discussion on how > important
(Or not) it is for all the trems to be in sync. no matter when
> the individual notes
start? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF,
CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile
applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us
from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________ jOrgan-user
mailing list jOrgan-user@...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come
build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is
the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009.
Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----
|
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
|
