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Nuts! WAS: Plug In America Wants Automakers to Retool for the Future

by Bob Rice-2 :: Rate this Message:

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Ashwood" <ashwood@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plug In America Wants Automakers to Retool for the
Future


> Just thought I'd weigh in. So I'm replying to pretty much everyone at
> once.
> I'm sure everyone will notice that I am strongly opinionated on this.

       Right on , Joe! Good on you, opinions, even good ones are welcome,
let's face it, it's YOUR money, and quite topical!Until I saw on the snooze
that ALL those Exec. Bums FLEW to DC, hats in hand, in PRIVATE Biz jets , to
BEG for our money! Not a godamn ONE of them flew in todaze cattle-car
conditions, on a Commoner's Commercial jet. Crammed in to a seat that makes
a VW Beetle back seat seem commodious? Oh no, burn up 20 GRAND, What? No Jet
Pool, they couldn't have come down, all of them, in GM or Ford's flying
machine? That's a F**k You! To US taxpayers!!! On this cheerie note I say
"F**k ALL of them! Liquidate them ALL!Pass the surviving bux, if any, divie
it up among the guyz that WERE on the lines, pensions, Med plans, etc. Give
the "bail out money" to them! To Hell with them all! Eliminate the
middleman! Here's Obama's chance to Reform the US medical racket, er, I mean
Medical $system, a racket that makes Auto's seem a small potato thing.

>> Do you think we should bail out the big three and save a boat-load of
> jobs?
   Hmmmm? MAYBE? If they are forced to build EV's and fuel Efficient cars?
It certainly isn't  a car shortage issue? There are too Godamn MANY cars,
NOW! Don't ya listen to the traffic reports? Thin 'em out a bit? Would it
kill anybody out there to do a few more years with the cars and trux they
have NOW? While the survivors retool, IF they do?

> Bailing out the big three would be meaningless. They need a major
> restructuring, the kind that only comes from bankruptcy. The saving of
> jobs
> is a myth, it would only marginally delay the loss of the jobs. The US
> auto
> makers lost because their methods simply cannot compete with the foreign
> makers.

     Seems the docks are FLOODED with new foreign cars, too. So NOBODIES
exactly flooding the market with ANY new cars, anyhow?Remember? There IS a
depression going on? Did anybody bail out Victor Talking Machine in 1929?
Yeah? Radio Corp of America a brash upstart, merged to form RCA -Victor, as
they wanted the Victor" His Master's Voice" and name. to stick on the new
"Radiolas" rolling down the Camden , NJ, assembly line as Radio was a BIG
deal in the 20's; "I want to buy a Wireless set, you know, you can listen to
EVERYTHING for Nothing?  "Line in the" Cohen buys a Wireless set" monologue,
circa 1923 or so? The rest of the story; Victor's plant IS gone, Camden is a
Wasteland, nowadaze? Victor has merged out AGAIN? Sony?WHY buy 15 dollar
DVD's when ya can download "music" for yur I-pod for almost free?

>> Using the money to retool them
>
> Bad idea. They don't need retooling, they need new business practices, it
> is
> the business processes that lost, not the tools.
>
>> Force them to convert to all hybrid or electric
>
> So much for capitalism. Let the winners win and this crop of losers, let
> them lose. Let the market decide, the market has decided that the big US
> auto makers need to be eliminated.
>
     Well said!

>> The bankruptcy of the auto makers will eliminate the jobs
>
> In the short term yes, but long term no. The new Getrag facility makes a
> perfect example, the one that Getrag has sued Chrysler over (Chrysler
> countersued). If Chrysler backs out of the contract to buy the
> transmissions, it will mean an immediate reduction in need for the
> facility,
> but the investment in the facility has been made. This means that it is
> important to make use of it. I estimate that hiring a 30% workforce would
> be
> good for that facility, this would be a short term loss of 70% of the
> jobs,
> but keep reading. This opens Getrag's ability to do what they do best,
> build
> the fastest transmissions possible. The vehicles that Chrysler was going
> to
> sell will still be sold, and the same ones that would have required a
> Getrag
> transmission before are likely to have a Getrag transmission after,
> whether
> it is OEM or aftermarket. As such over the next 5 to 10 years the Getrag
> facility will reach the same 100% capacity. This applies across all the
> suppliers that should survive, as such a bankruptcy of
> Chrysler/GM/Ford/etc
> would cause only a temporary hiccup. Anyone saying anything else needs to
> study economics again.

   Getrag? Get REAL! WHO NEEDS more obsolete technology, anyhow? Direct
drive is the way to go on the new Transportation appliances, anyhow? I go
along with John Wayland on this one!

>> Merge GM with Tesla

     Yeah? Right? Lets dump MORE money, at over 100K a pop, on Sheeple
CLUELESS to how a damn car WORKS? In this economy who gives a Rat's Exhaust
pipe IF a car can go from 0 to 125 MPH, in so many seconds? Are ya gunna be
hauling the ice cream home from the Stupermarket any faster? I don't think
so? Why didn't Tesla rattle Getrag's cage on the trannie issue?IF they had
to solve this issue?

>
> Here is where I started laughing. (Hell! I want to start CRYING) Take a
> company using century old
> technology to make a second rate vehicle that has a demonstrated inability
> to deliver and is looking like they will soon be bankrupt, and merge it
> with
> GM. For those of you that are undoubtedly upset by this, look at the
> facts.
> Tesla has delivered only a tiny fraction of the vehicles promised. Tesla
> vehicles continually underperform the promises, whether it is range about
> half the promised, or the number of gears, or the acceleration, or the top
> speed, or even the promised price (which has increased by almost 50% since
> initial estimates), to the claim that they engineered it themself (it is
> almost all Lotus work). This has been so dramatic that there have already
> been suits filed. As for the ability to run the company, have a look at
> Whitestar, or the fact that Tesla has already gone through more than one
> set
> of lay-offs, one of them even included closing an entire design studio (I
> have no idea why they even had one, Lotus does their engineering and they
> hire external industrial designers). The most valuable thing Tesla Motors
> has is the name Tesla, and Nikola would roll over in his grave if he knew
> that his name was being used for this.

    Yeah? White Star? Wern't they the guyz driving the Titanic? Bad name
choice? We have Blue Teeth stuff, nowadaze, and other quirky named qrap. But
White Star? Yur setting yurself up for being a butt of a joke!Hindenberg
Airlines? Hanoi Hilton Hotel chain ,Paris Hilton's Tours of Somalia? See a
new Pirates Paradise? On and on? As you say Nikola Tesla MUST be spinning in
his grave at sincronnous speed?60Hz??

>> Give the small startups a billion each

        For Chrissakes! They threw MILLIONS at Tesla for a Lotus Conversion?
I can't even GET in the damn thing, it's built for midgets! At least the
Brits are true to advertising one of their cars as a "Midget! Most
uncomfortable, USELESS  car on the road! But they have sold a few over the
years?
>
> This is a worse idea. Most companies wouldn't know how to work with one
> million, giving them 1000 times that would just results in further waste.
> 24
> of the 25 would burn through the cash with nothing to show, the 25th would
> have it all embezzled.

     IF Tesla wen't down, would they even be on the Car Co's radar? Nobody
but a few EV geeks would notice??

     Right on, for sure?  Give Lee Hart an  Co. a few hundred THOU to get
some Sunrises out there?He COULD hire some help and get something going? Did
I allude to JOBS? IF he could turn out one a week? for starters and the car
worked well, investors would help him out? BEFORE EV's get a shitty
investment reputation? It's guyz like him that COULD pull something off?
Without hat in hand to the taxpayers? HE would drive his green Prius to DC
for some Funding? Sleeping at Motel Six? No Private jet here?Or, better,
yet, just have it WIRED to his account? Why polute by GOING? This IS the
electronic age, anyhow?Or the age of capitatalism?And like Con Rail , or
Crapsler,the FIRST time,he COULD repay the loan, over time?The Govt. DID
bail out "Clown Rail," too.And I had a nice job drivin' their freight
trains, Before CSX took it over;423 miles per gal, for freight ton miliage
folks, ya see them on the TV ads?

> The best idea is to allow the market to handle the market. Too big to fail
> is a myth. Letting them fail is not only the best idea for the market, it
> is
> the best idea for the technology, it is the best idea for the current
> employees, it is the fastest way to reach viable market for EVs, it is the
> fastest way to reach the recovery phase. Anything we do to the contrary
> will
> just make things worse.

      And send off the exec's to jail? Same as gangsters? You bet? Stealing
OUR money, using Uncle Sap as a collection agent? I still have my bumper
sticker on my Electric; " Empty the Prisons, make Room for the Bush
Administration" And a few Auto Execs, too?Gotta add that line?

    Like the laws of physics are in effect til further notice, the laws of
economics are, too? So roll the presses 24/7? Print up MORE paper, worthless
"money!"NOBODY has said WHERE the cash is coming from, as we're bankrupt,
anyhow? Anybody in DC watching the store (news?) I didn't think so.At least
for the LAST 8 YEARS!

     End of Sundaze's rant?  Stay tuned.

      Seeya

      Bob.................Speaking for some American Sheeple?And I approve
of this message!

        An'
>                    Joe , the OTHER Joe, not the Plumber?
>
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