Nabble - OEVA Archive

Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

2009-12-22T08:51:10Z

So the batteries and control are under the body pan...hmm.

-----Original Message-----
From: oeva-list-bounces@... [mailto:oeva-list-bounces@...] On Behalf Of phil hochstetler
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 9:00 PM
To: Gene Climer
Cc: OEVA
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

I did some digging with Google and found a picture of the battery pack:

http://www.gearlive.com/gallery/image/2083/

--phil

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Gene Climer <climer97007@...> wrote:

> At OMSI, I talked to the tall guy with the ski cap.
> He said the battery pack has 4 cells per module, and 48 modules.
> The 48 modules are divided in half into the two packs under the front seats.
> There are still quite a few series/parallel combinations.
> Just depends upon your assumptions at that point.
> Let's assume about 4V per cell for a round number.
> On the low side, for 4 cells in each moldule would be in parallel.
> That gives 4V per module, and 96V per 24 modules.
> If the two 24 Module halves are in parallel, it is a 96V pack.
> If the two halves are in series, it is a 192V pack.
> Now, at the other end, let's assume each module has 4 cells in series.
> That gives 16V per module, and 384V per 24 modules.
> The two 384V halves can be either parallel or series.
> Highest case, the 384V halves are put in series and we have a 768V pack.
> So, the pack has to be either 96V, 192V, 384V or 768V.
> Did anyone get them to spill the beans in more detail?
> Thanks,
> Gene Climer

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2008 ZAP Xebra PK -- $8950 OBO

2009-12-22T00:56:16Z

What can I say -- economic times have my finances a little tight..... I don't want to really sell Big Red but I think it is the best move for me right now.....

Purchased June 2008 for $13,000 from Eco-Motion
Less then 4000 ZAP miles
Fire Engine Red
AM/FM/CD/Ipod
Spray-on Bedliner
On Board Charger
Heater
Paktracker installed July 2008 ($200)
upgraded to 84 volts (7 batteries) in July 2008 ($900) -- Thank you Shorepower!!

Gently used. Have not let battery pack go below 50% more then a handful of times. I can travel from Milwaukie to Downtown Portland comfortably on a charge. Maximum speed 42 mph.

Pros/Con combined:
3 wheeled vehicle so only requires motorcycle tags which are inexpensive.
Motorcycle insurance -- full coverage only costs me $230 A YEAR through Progressive!!
No airbags / crumple zones.
Made in China -- expect not the best quality but it is decent enough!!
Seriously only costs about .02 cents per mile to operate!!
LOW MAINTENANCE!!
NOT freeway legal but is expressway legal and I can keep up with traffic on McLoughlin Blvd / Grand Ave.

Feel free to e-mail me off list if you would like additional information and/or pictures!!

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Nissan LEAF Zero Emission Tour at Washington Square

2009-12-21T23:24:31Z

Nissan LEAF Zero Emission Tour at Washington Square, Tigard Oregon

Dec 22-23
http://bit.ly/8JH55j

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

2009-12-21T21:00:25Z

I did some digging with Google and found a picture of the battery pack:

http://www.gearlive.com/gallery/image/2083/

--phil

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Gene Climer <climer97007@...> wrote:

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Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

2009-12-21T19:12:05Z

At OMSI, I talked to the tall guy with the ski cap.

He said the battery pack has 4 cells per module, and 48 modules.

The 48 modules are divided in half into the two packs under the front seats.

There are still quite a few series/parallel combinations.

Just depends upon your assumptions at that point.

Let's assume about 4V per cell for a round number.

On the low side, for 4 cells in each moldule would be in parallel.

That gives 4V per module, and 96V per 24 modules.

If the two 24 Module halves are in parallel, it is a 96V pack.

If the two halves are in series, it is a 192V pack.

Now, at the other end, let's assume each module has 4 cells in series.

That gives 16V per module, and 384V per 24 modules.

The two 384V halves can be either parallel or series.

Highest case, the 384V halves are put in series and we have a 768V pack.

So, the pack has to be either 96V, 192V, 384V or 768V.

Did anyone get them to spill the beans in more detail?

Thanks,

Gene Climer

From: Alan Batie <alan@...>
To: oeva-list@...
Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 12:53:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

On 12/20/09 2:31 AM, PREMIUM-USA wrote:

> Oh, did someone get some pics of that battery "can"..??? I'd love to
> study it more... :')~~~

I was there yesterday and got some pix, though not sure you can see much...

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Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

2009-12-21T12:53:43Z

On 12/20/09 2:31 AM, PREMIUM-USA wrote:

> Oh, did someone get some pics of that battery "can"..??? I'd love to
> study it more... :')~~~

I was there yesterday and got some pix, though not sure you can see much...

http://alan.batie.org/photos/canon-a1000/2009/1220-leaf-trex/

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smime.p7s (7K) Download Attachment

Re: Not a Post, Just a Question

2009-12-21T07:59:36Z

Hi Gene,

I set up the Nabble archival forum to capture all the e-mails that were sent to the OEVA "mailman" listserv so we could have a searchable database. Since it only captures what has been sent out, it's a "read-only" forum without discussions. When people reply to the list, it really goes through the original "mailman" listserv and the Nabble forum captures those replies as well.

Clear as mud? :)

Cheers,
Tim

From: Gene Climer <climer97007@...>
To: oeva-list@...
Sent: Sun, December 20, 2009 10:52:07 PM
Subject: [Oeva-list] Not a Post, Just a Question

I keep getting emails from the OEVA List which have been replied to.

Yet, whenever I go to the forum, it says it is a read only list.

Seems like a contradiction.

Posts are obviously being replied to, but how?

It does not appear to be a very obvious process.

Thanks, Gene Climer, OEVA Member

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Not a Post, Just a Question

2009-12-20T22:52:07Z

I keep getting emails from the OEVA List which have been replied to.

Yet, whenever I go to the forum, it says it is a read only list.

Seems like a contradiction.

Posts are obviously being replied to, but how?

It does not appear to be a very obvious process.

Thanks, Gene Climer, OEVA Member

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What are the best contactors?

2009-12-20T21:43:58Z

We use the Tyco Kilovac EV200.
But is there better?

What are the best Contactors for high Amps?
Main
Reversing
Others..

...

THX..
Daniel T "Bubba" Conway

Premium-EV

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The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

2009-12-20T02:31:06Z

Myles Tweet wrote:

Most disappointing: While we got to see 2 power plugs, we didn't get to see
its 10kw charge rate demonstrated----I, for one, am curious how 10kw
recharge rate is deemed safe for battery boxes mounted under each seat and
with no cooling. Seeing it plugged in and seeing a gauge indicate its
sucking 10kw from OMSI's grid would have been interesting. As it was, there
was little to interest the engineer in me---and I'm not a technogeek.

Brian from Nissan mentioned that the huge socket on the right is the Japan Electric
440 volt std. and the ~30mm socket 2 power, large, +3 data. We in China refer to these
plugs by power +data, so this is a 2+3.. I'm a bit confused, because all the J1772
I have seen are ~50mm sockets with a 3+2 config.

On the 10Kw charging, is very easy on a 35.5 Kw pack.. exactly perfect,
given most charger are about 87% net efficient, so 87% x 10Kw = 8.7Kw net, exactly 25%
of 35.5Kw. One can easily charge Li-Po at .5C, and they would push at only 0.25C...
Here on PUD power I have 240 vac, so 10Kw is ~42 amps, on a 50A breaker,
less than my flash hot water heaters pull.. I'd like to charge them at 24Kw.. :')~

The Japan Electric socket should carry 100amps @ 440vac, 44Kw x 87% eff. charger
is 38.3Kw net, and if the pack bottom is 70% DoD with a top of 90% full, for a flash charge.
It is easy to push Lithium to 90% quickly, or about 22Kw pack that would take 35 min.
@ 1.08C... sweet...

And very possible even if the Li-Po cells are not encased, in a coolant.
They should not incur detrimental "puffing" of the vacuum bagged envalopes.
Myself, I would use a coolant. If the air volume in each "can" is say 1.5 Qts, that would
add about 3 lbs each of glycol/ water, or ~145 Lbs for coolant, a good trade off for
battery life.. And the right goodie mix could also nuetralize the potential of a "run-away"..
Hmmm.

...Just some guesses, but looks in the ball park ..
Oh, did someone get some pics of that battery "can"..??? I'd love to study it more... :')~~~

THX..
Daniel T "Bubba" Conway

Premium-EV

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The Leaf in Special Sauce.. 7.4v 100Ah cells

2009-12-20T00:26:33Z

Don T. got this:

I was trying to justify the numbers. I was told it has a 350V pack. Also I was told 48 of those battery modules under the seats and floor. At 3.7 V / cell that would be 355V, at 50ah / cell it is 35.5 KWh for the pack. At 80% DOD = 28.4 KWh of driving power. As I recall he said 4.1 miles per KWh, in answer to my question, which nets 116 miles. At 70% DOD it’s 100 miles + regenerative braking.

..Definitely Li-Po, is a very easy , sweet spot, mean voltage for polymer..

but with 48 "cans" they would have to be a 2p2s Li-Po battery, a very common
battery in the RC flight industry.

7.4v 100Ah is therefore likely , 48 x 7.4v... A very possible 355.2V DC x 100Ah, 35.5KwH pack,
very nice indeed.. they could be de-rating the pack as Chevy is with the Volt..

THX..
Daniel T "Bubba" Conway

Premium-EV
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The Leaf at OMSI

2009-12-19T23:45:41Z

Overall I really liked the Leaf. A little disappointed no under the hood views were allowed.

Concerning this information provided at the show.

The range in town is better then on the freeway was because of regen. The reason for better mileage in town is because of stop and go driving with regen.

This is incorrect.

Your very best range will be on 35 MPH roads that you do not have to stop on. If you are in very heavy stop and go traffic that might be enough energy lost that you could travel at 40 or 45 MPH still get even greater range.

Here are some facts

You never get the best range using regen and driving like an ICE

EVs get their best range at around 30 to 35 miles per hour without stopping.

If you must use regen you will recover energy but you would gain more range if you could coast. It is always better to coast then it is to regen. Stopping will never give you more range.

Every time you have to stop you lose range not gain.

Regen will recover some of the loss of having to stop but not all of it.

The recovered energy using regen does not make up for the loss of energy needed to bring the vehicle back up to speed.

It takes far more energy to start a vehicle from a stop then you ever recover from regen braking. The only exception to this would be going down a hill to a stop.

Any time you convert energy there is always a loss.

Of course if you must slow down or come to a stop then it is better to put the energy back into the pack.

If you do get better range in town then on the freeway it is only because of aerodynamic losses at freeway speeds. It has nothing to do with regen making your EV range increase with regen stopping. If you tell this information to non EV drivers. They will wrongly believe it is best to use the regen braking. That doing so will recharge the car and increase the range.

Don Blazer

In a message dated 12/18/2009 2:42:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request@... writes:

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:51:31 -0800
From: "Myles Twete" <matwete@...>
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Nissan Leaf
To: "'OEVA'" <oeva-list@...>
Message-ID: <003a01ca802c$43249df0$c96dd9d0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sure, here's one:

Q: Can you open the hood so we can see what's underneath?

A: "No." Then something like "there's really nothing interesting under
there anyway, just compressor, controller box, etc."

My opinion: It was a great sales pitch and the LEAF looked like a modern
car. And the pitch made it sound like it's real. Beyond that, it was sad
that it didn't compare to the splash that Toyota made at OMSI several years
ago where they brought 4 cars, various detached parts, knowledgeable
engineers and allowed us to look all through the car and at the parts before
we actually got to take each Prius out for lengthy spins around town.

Most disappointing: While we got to see 2 power plugs, we didn't get to see
its 10kw charge rate demonstrated----I, for one, am curious how 10kw
recharge rate is deemed safe for battery boxes mounted under each seat and
with no cooling. Seeing it plugged in and seeing a gauge indicate its
sucking 10kw from OMSI's grid would have been interesting. As it was, there
was little to interest the engineer in me---and I'm not a technogeek.

-Myles Twete

1911 Hupp-Yeats Electric www.evalbum.com/1018

From: oeva-list-bounces@... [mailto:oeva-list-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of patrick0101@...
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:59 PM
To: OEVA
Subject: [Oeva-list] Nissan Leaf

We had many OEVA members at the Nissan Leaf event tonight. It was a good
turn out and Nissan even gave out free t-shirts if you signed up for their
mailing list.

We asked a lot of good questions of Mark Perry, the Leaf program manager.
Here are the Q&As that I recall. These are not verbatim:

Nissan Leaf Questions
To Mark Perry of Nissan

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Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce..

2009-12-19T23:03:31Z

I didn't get any pictures, but the floor of the vehicle was flat and appeard lower than a typical vehicle.

Jeff Kim

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 2:46 PM, PREMIUM-USA <pusa411@...> wrote:

I'm in the same camp as most of you. It looked good but, details, Not so much.
Obviously they are still working on the secret sauce.. and have enough space in the Leaf to greatly vary
the Battery and drive technologiey details. Nissan has always been much looser until release of a vehicle than Toyota..

These are the ruminations of a Litium guy...
The battery cut-away they showed off, was a four pack of large Li-Po, Lithium Polymer, cellular phone style
batteries, 150Ah sized plates, end view of a Prismatic, sealed in a stackable can.
These are the largest Lipo's I've seen, 10 Ah are considered hugh and require a 10 ton machine.
These looked to be stamped, actually vacuum packed, with a 30 - 40 ton press.

Depending on how they are "juicing" them, truely the special sauce of a lithium.
Each manufacturer has a propriety mix of the electrolite ratio and the minerals in suspension.
They can build a Li-Po cel to operate from 1C to 40C easily, and have a nominal Voltage from 3 to 3.7 volts.
However anything over 6C discharge / 2.4C charge, and a 3.3v nominal goes up in price. So to go from 6C to 10C
costs about 40% more, 20C is 90% more, These numbers are the admitted cost from two of my friends that own
production facilities in Shenzhen China. These numbers should get cheaper as the volumes go up and competition
drives down the sell price.
The Nissan/NEC Pack should be a minimum of 40 Ah to 60Ah a "bag". I'm assuming 50Ah, due to the phisical size
and norm "Sauce" in a Li-Po cell. So could be a 3.4v 200Ah cell, 4x 50Ah, or a 13.6v 50Ah, 4x 3.4v, cell per
battery pack in a "can". They could fill the cans with coolant or jel too if they want to stablize thier temperatures in each can.
It would be nice if someone has pics, hint hint... to figure out the number of "cans" in the area under the front and back seats.. I'm thinking 3 of 4 in the front, and Brian made it sound as if there are 2x the battery under the back seat as the front.
I'm wonderring if 4 cans are a Battery , ie. 12volt units, or if a can is a 12v unit? What is the thaught guys? 3 or 4 cans per battery stack under the front seat? did any one look at the floor pan from under the car..? Does it drop, raise or is it flat?
Polmers will easialy live @ 3C discharge for a min. of 1500 cycles, and if juiced can go to 40C albeit maybe 120 cycles, assuming 20% DoD.. and staying above 80% capacity..

So many variables.. so little details... :')~

Oh, as for Commercial contributors, I'm ok with it, as long as blatant Advertizing is not included.. Mr Kim's info has good links and info on the Electrification of America..
...

THX..
Daniel T "Bubba" Conway

Premium-EV

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The Leaf in Special Sauce..

2009-12-19T14:46:34Z

I'm in the same camp as most of you. It looked good but, details, Not so much.
Obviously they are still working on the secret sauce.. and have enough space in the Leaf to greatly vary
the Battery and drive technologiey details. Nissan has always been much looser until release of a vehicle than Toyota..

These are the ruminations of a Litium guy...
The battery cut-away they showed off, was a four pack of large Li-Po, Lithium Polymer, cellular phone style
batteries, 150Ah sized plates, end view of a Prismatic, sealed in a stackable can.
These are the largest Lipo's I've seen, 10 Ah are considered hugh and require a 10 ton machine.
These looked to be stamped, actually vacuum packed, with a 30 - 40 ton press.

Depending on how they are "juicing" them, truely the special sauce of a lithium.
Each manufacturer has a propriety mix of the electrolite ratio and the minerals in suspension.
They can build a Li-Po cel to operate from 1C to 40C easily, and have a nominal Voltage from 3 to 3.7 volts.
However anything over 6C discharge / 2.4C charge, and a 3.3v nominal goes up in price. So to go from 6C to 10C
costs about 40% more, 20C is 90% more, These numbers are the admitted cost from two of my friends that own
production facilities in Shenzhen China. These numbers should get cheaper as the volumes go up and competition
drives down the sell price.
The Nissan/NEC Pack should be a minimum of 40 Ah to 60Ah a "bag". I'm assuming 50Ah, due to the phisical size
and norm "Sauce" in a Li-Po cell. So could be a 3.4v 200Ah cell, 4x 50Ah, or a 13.6v 50Ah, 4x 3.4v, cell per
battery pack in a "can". They could fill the cans with coolant or jel too if they want to stablize thier temperatures in each can.
It would be nice if someone has pics, hint hint... to figure out the number of "cans" in the area under the front and back seats.. I'm thinking 3 of 4 in the front, and Brian made it sound as if there are 2x the battery under the back seat as the front.
I'm wonderring if 4 cans are a Battery , ie. 12volt units, or if a can is a 12v unit? What is the thaught guys? 3 or 4 cans per battery stack under the front seat? did any one look at the floor pan from under the car..? Does it drop, raise or is it flat?
Polmers will easialy live @ 3C discharge for a min. of 1500 cycles, and if juiced can go to 40C albeit maybe 120 cycles, assuming 20% DoD.. and staying above 80% capacity..

So many variables.. so little details... :')~

Oh, as for Commercial contributors, I'm ok with it, as long as blatant Advertizing is not included.. Mr Kim's info has good links and info on the Electrification of America..
...

THX..
Daniel T "Bubba" Conway

Premium-EV

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Re: list management question

2009-12-18T23:17:13Z

Here is the Shorepower newsletter on tweetyoumail. It seems to have worked very well. The format looks right and the links all still work.

http://bit.ly/53atq1

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 9:21 PM, <patrick0101@...> wrote:

tweetyourmail.com is one simple way to share a large email. You it to them, they make into a webpage and give you a link that you can share. Readers do not need to join. I had looked in to wuala a long time ago, it was not as simple, but maybe it is better now.

Here are a couple tweetyourmail examples:

http://www.tweetyourmail.com/mails/18861/SmartGridSeminar2010.aspx
http://www.tweetyourmail.com/mails/18860/NevertakeGRANDMAtoCOURTSundaysnicker.aspx

However, I am OK with any email less than 1GB :)

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Alan Batie <alan@...> wrote:

With modern mail being what it is, I'm considering substantially
relaxing content limits on the list, and wanted to find out what the
group thought was appropriate. This shorepower newsletter is a good
example of both issues:

1. It's relatively commercial. Do people want that here?
2. Actually, it's not bad size wise, so it's not really a good example
there, but how big is too big for people? I'll make a plug for
wuala.com as a really easy to use app for sharing large items with web
links...

These questions seem to pop up here more often than other lists I
manage, so I thought I'd revisit it...

http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/443717/2c074e0677/1740501003/c02bd726ef/

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Re: list management question

2009-12-18T21:59:06Z

Tweetyourmail.com is owned by a friend of mine. If you have any feature requests, send them to me and i'll forward them on!
My first test post were the Nissan LEAF vids Patrick posted.

thx, Shashi

From: "patrick0101@..." <patrick0101@...>
To: OEVA <oeva-list@...>
Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 9:21:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] list management question

tweetyourmail.com is one simple way to share a large email. You it to them, they make into a webpage and give you a link that you can share. Readers do not need to join. I had looked in to wuala a long time ago, it was not as simple, but maybe it is better now.

Here are a couple tweetyourmail examples:

http://www.tweetyourmail.com/mails/18861/SmartGridSeminar2010.aspx
http://www.tweetyourmail.com/mails/18860/NevertakeGRANDMAtoCOURTSundaysnicker.aspx

However, I am OK with any email less than 1GB :)

Regards,

Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Alan Batie <alan@...> wrote:

With modern mail being what it is, I'm considering substantially
relaxing content limits on the list, and wanted to find out what the
group thought was appropriate. This shorepower newsletter is a good
example of both issues:

1. It's relatively commercial. Do people want that here?
2. Actually, it's not bad size wise, so it's not really a good example
there, but how big is too big for people? I'll make a plug for
wuala.com as a really easy to use app for sharing large items with web
links...

These questions seem to pop up here more often than other lists I
manage, so I thought I'd revisit it...

http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/443717/2c074e0677/1740501003/c02bd726ef/

_______________________________________________
Oeva-list mailing list
Oeva-list@...
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list

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Oeva-list@...
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list

Re: list management question

2009-12-18T21:21:11Z

tweetyourmail.com is one simple way to share a large email. You it to them, they make into a webpage and give you a link that you can share. Readers do not need to join. I had looked in to wuala a long time ago, it was not as simple, but maybe it is better now.

Here are a couple tweetyourmail examples:

http://www.tweetyourmail.com/mails/18861/SmartGridSeminar2010.aspx
http://www.tweetyourmail.com/mails/18860/NevertakeGRANDMAtoCOURTSundaysnicker.aspx

However, I am OK with any email less than 1GB :)

Regards,

Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Alan Batie <alan@...> wrote:

With modern mail being what it is, I'm considering substantially
relaxing content limits on the list, and wanted to find out what the
group thought was appropriate. This shorepower newsletter is a good
example of both issues:

1. It's relatively commercial. Do people want that here?
2. Actually, it's not bad size wise, so it's not really a good example
there, but how big is too big for people? I'll make a plug for
wuala.com as a really easy to use app for sharing large items with web
links...

These questions seem to pop up here more often than other lists I
manage, so I thought I'd revisit it...

http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/443717/2c074e0677/1740501003/c02bd726ef/

_______________________________________________
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Oeva-list@...
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Lincoln City Oregon now EV Friendly

2009-12-18T14:56:06Z

Hi Folks, I just wanted to let you know that Lincoln City, Oregon is making the Oregon coast more EV friendly by installing 6 Coulomb ChargePoint EV Charging Stations. The new stations should be installed by January 11th. The Stations are currently free of Charge. Is there anybody interested in attending with your EV? The grand opening on the 11th of January? If so, you are likely to get your picture in the paper and I will even throw in a free RFID access card.

Give me a shout!

Jim Blaisdell

Charge Northwest

Coulomb, Chargepoint Distributors

22322 NE 157th St

Woodinville, WA 98077

253-304-5625 cell

253-265-0919 office

http://www.chargenw.com/

P Please consider the environment before printing this message.

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Nissan Leaf in Oregonian

2009-12-18T14:42:21Z

Video & article:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2009/12/video_up_close_and_electrical.html

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Re: Nissan Leaf

2009-12-18T13:51:31Z

Sure, here’s one:

Q: Can you open the hood so we can see what’s underneath?

A: “No.” Then something like “there’s really nothing interesting under there anyway, just compressor, controller box, etc.”

My opinion: It was a great sales pitch and the LEAF looked like a modern car. And the pitch made it sound like it’s real. Beyond that, it was sad that it didn’t compare to the splash that Toyota made at OMSI several years ago where they brought 4 cars, various detached parts, knowledgeable engineers and allowed us to look all through the car and at the parts before we actually got to take each Prius out for lengthy spins around town.

Most disappointing: While we got to see 2 power plugs, we didn’t get to see its 10kw charge rate demonstrated----I, for one, am curious how 10kw recharge rate is deemed safe for battery boxes mounted under each seat and with no cooling. Seeing it plugged in and seeing a gauge indicate its sucking 10kw from OMSI’s grid would have been interesting. As it was, there was little to interest the engineer in me---and I’m not a technogeek.

-Myles Twete

1911 Hupp-Yeats Electric www.evalbum.com/1018

From: oeva-list-bounces@... [mailto:oeva-list-bounces@...] On Behalf Of patrick0101@...
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:59 PM
To: OEVA
Subject: [Oeva-list] Nissan Leaf

We had many OEVA members at the Nissan Leaf event tonight. It was a good turn out and Nissan even gave out free t-shirts if you signed up for their mailing list.

We asked a lot of good questions of Mark Perry, the Leaf program manager. Here are the Q&As that I recall. These are not verbatim:

Nissan Leaf Questions
To Mark Perry of Nissan

Question: Much has been said about leasing the batteries, will buying be an option?

Answer: Nissan will encourage customers to lease the vehicle and batteries together. Buying the vehicle and separately leasing the batteries may not be allowed in the US for legal reasons. There is no decision regarding outright buying the vehicle. Lease with an option to buy is a possibility.

Q: How is the range impacted by extreme weather?

A: The batteries are not impacted unless the temperature get to -20 degrees.

However, if you run the AC or heater this can impact the range. When possible you should pre-condition the cab environment while the vehicle is plugged-in. You can do this via a smart phone app.

Q: What charging levels are supported? Are there any plans for fast charging in the Portland area?

A: Level 1, 2, & 3 are supported. Fast charging stations will be installed along the I-5 from Eugene OR to Vancouver, BC. Also, Oregon will have 2500 charging stations installed.

Q: Darryl Siry, of Wired, criticized the method used to compute the range. What method was used, the Japanese 10-15 cycle or another?

A: The actual range anyone gets depends on how and where they drive. The method used to compute the range was city mostly city driving, with lower speeds and use of the regenerative brakes. Most people will have a range in the 80 to 120 miles area.

Q: Are there any plans for a range-extender trailer? (generator or battery)

A: NO.

Q: Does Nissan have partnerships with any car rental companies for Leaf owners, if they occationally need a gas car?

A: Yes. Zip Car is a partner. The details of the relationship are not yet finalized.

Q: When battery improvements are made, will they be available to all year models, or would one need to buy a new Leaf to get the longer range?

A: Battery upgrades will be available for the the first year model. This is one of the reasons that Nissan is encouraging leasing rather than buying. This way an customer is not stuck with outdated technology 3-5 years from now.

Q: How does the Battery R&D budget compare to the Fuel Cell budget at Nissan?

A: Nissan is investing in both technologies. However, fuel cells are a research project with products 10-15 years out. Batteries are ready now, Nissan has been researching lithium batteries for over 15 years and batteries are getting significantly more attention from our development team.

I am sure I missed some, feel free to add or correct the above if you were there tonight.

I'll post pictures and videos soon.

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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list management question

2009-12-18T12:35:19Z

With modern mail being what it is, I'm considering substantially
relaxing content limits on the list, and wanted to find out what the
group thought was appropriate. This shorepower newsletter is a good
example of both issues:

1. It's relatively commercial. Do people want that here?
2. Actually, it's not bad size wise, so it's not really a good example
there, but how big is too big for people? I'll make a plug for
wuala.com as a really easy to use app for sharing large items with web
links...

These questions seem to pop up here more often than other lists I
manage, so I thought I'd revisit it...

http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/443717/2c074e0677/1740501003/c02bd726ef/

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smime.p7s (7K) Download Attachment

Video: OEVA Q&A with Mark Perry

2009-12-18T07:23:03Z

>From the Nissan Leaf OMSI event last night:
http://tinyurl.com/yb8nf3l

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Nissan Leaf event photos

2009-12-17T23:38:58Z

http://bit.ly/7dbGls

Tag yourself if you are in a photo.

Regards,

Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Nissan Leaf on Ch2 News @ 11

2009-12-17T22:09:22Z

Channel 2 was at OSMI and will have a story about the Leaf coming to Portland on the 11 news tonight!

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Nissan Leaf

2009-12-17T21:58:35Z

We had many OEVA members at the Nissan Leaf event tonight. It was a good turn out and Nissan even gave out free t-shirts if you signed up for their mailing list.

We asked a lot of good questions of Mark Perry, the Leaf program manager. Here are the Q&As that I recall. These are not verbatim:

Nissan Leaf Questions
To Mark Perry of Nissan

Question: Much has been said about leasing the batteries, will buying be an option?

Q: How is the range impacted by extreme weather?

A: The batteries are not impacted unless the temperature get to -20 degrees.

However, if you run the AC or heater this can impact the range. When possible you should pre-condition the cab environment while the vehicle is plugged-in. You can do this via a smart phone app.

Q: What charging levels are supported? Are there any plans for fast charging in the Portland area?

A: Level 1, 2, & 3 are supported. Fast charging stations will be installed along the I-5 from Eugene OR to Vancouver, BC. Also, Oregon will have 2500 charging stations installed.

Q: Darryl Siry, of Wired, criticized the method used to compute the range. What method was used, the Japanese 10-15 cycle or another?

Q: Are there any plans for a range-extender trailer? (generator or battery)

A: NO.

Q: Does Nissan have partnerships with any car rental companies for Leaf owners, if they occationally need a gas car?

A: Yes. Zip Car is a partner. The details of the relationship are not yet finalized.

Q: When battery improvements are made, will they be available to all year models, or would one need to buy a new Leaf to get the longer range?

Q: How does the Battery R&D budget compare to the Fuel Cell budget at Nissan?

I am sure I missed some, feel free to add or correct the above if you were there tonight.

I'll post pictures and videos soon.

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Re: Electro Automotive Status?

2009-12-17T14:18:54Z

I have a DC conversion from an Electro Automotive kit. My last dealings with Electro Automotive was in November. I talked to Bill Lentfer directly and he promptly sent a part I requested.

Bruce

From: richard@...
To: oeva-list@...
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:17:10 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Electro Automotive Status?

Hi all,

Does anyone have any recent experience with Electro Automotive? I ordered a kit from them in July and still don't have all the parts. They have never responded to emails, and when I call I get Bill Lentfer's voicemail, but he never returns the call. I fear they are down to just one person and may be folding. I'm out about $3000 for the remaining parts (charger, converter, relays, main switch) if I have to buy them elsewhere.

Has anyone in the group had dealings with them lately? Do you know anyone besides Bill at the company who I could call? It's frustrating and a little scary if they're down the tubes...

Thanks,
Richard

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Electro Automotive Status?

2009-12-17T07:17:10Z

Hi all,

Does anyone have any recent experience with Electro Automotive? I ordered a kit from them in July and still don't have all the parts. They have never responded to emails, and when I call I get Bill Lentfer's voicemail, but he never returns the call. I fear they are down to just one person and may be folding. I'm out about $3000 for the remaining parts (charger, converter, relays, main switch) if I have to buy them elsewhere.

Has anyone in the group had dealings with them lately? Do you know anyone besides Bill at the company who I could call? It's frustrating and a little scary if they're down the tubes...

Thanks,
Richard

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All Electric Grand Prix Coming To Paris Next Year

2009-12-16T22:50:47Z

http://gas2.org/2009/12/16/all-electric-grand-prix-coming-to-paris-next-year/

This will help boost EV tech significantly.

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Nissan Leaf is HERE!

2009-12-16T18:03:26Z

OMSI just reported (on their facebook status) that the Leaf has arrived early and is now on display.

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Nissan Leaf Video

2009-12-15T23:41:55Z

With the leaf coming to town soon, here is some info about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is5XSyLgGxI

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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December Meeting Pictures

2009-12-15T20:13:06Z

We had food, music, a speaker from Arcimoto, and great seasonal lighting in the 'vehicle' courtyard. Thanks to Richard for organizing this and to everyone that helped make it a fun meeting.

December 2009 Meeting pictures: http://bit.ly/6xUkIl

Again you should not need an account to see them; let me know if you have any trouble.

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Arcimoto Pulse Pictures

2009-12-15T19:38:25Z

I snapped a few pictures of the Pulse when it was on display at Washington Square.

These are on facebook, but you should not need an account to see them.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=129470&id=138510433019

Cheers,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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240v Charging Volunteer Needed

2009-12-15T15:50:48Z

Good afternoon,

We are looking for an EV volunteer(s) who charges their vehicles at 240v. We are conducting further tests of our charging stations at “Level 2” charging and will be testing Friday from 8-2 p.m. We also will be available on Saturday, depending on the availability of volunteers. Send me an e-mail if you can help out. Testing would be done at our offices, 15236 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton.

Sincerely,

Nathan Isaacs

Manager, Business Development

Optimization Technologies

www.opconnect.com

nisaacs@...

(503) 690-4475 x 16

(503) 810-7013 mobile

P Please consider the environment before printing this message.

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Electric Bike Buyers Guide

2009-12-12T23:50:07Z

http://www.ev.com/ev-guides/e-bike-101-your-first-electric-bike-buyers-guide.html

Regards,
Pat
With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~

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Arcimoto at Washington Square - TODAY!

2009-12-12T04:39:38Z

Attention OEVA Members -

Arcimoto will be showing the Arcimoto Pulse at Washington Square this weekend! Come by to meet members of the team and check out the vehicle.

Where: Washington Square Mall, Tigard
When: Mall open hours

See you there!

--
Quinn Reilly
VP Marketing | Arcimoto, LLC
www.arcimoto.com
541-683-6293 (w)
541-337-4106 (c)

****** GO DUCKS!!! ******

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Nabble - OEVA Archive

Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

2008 ZAP Xebra PK -- $8950 OBO

Nissan LEAF Zero Emission Tour at Washington Square

Nissan LEAF Zero Emission Tour at Washington Square, Tigard Oregon

Dec 22-23http://bit.ly/8JH55j

Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

Re: Not a Post, Just a Question

Not a Post, Just a Question

What are the best contactors?

The Leaf in Special Sauce.. Charge

The Leaf in Special Sauce.. 7.4v 100Ah cells

The Leaf at OMSI

Re: The Leaf in Special Sauce..

The Leaf in Special Sauce..

Re: list management question

tweetyourmail.com is one simple way to share a large email. You it to them, they make into a webpage and give you a link that you can share. Readers do not need to join. I had looked in to wuala a long time ago, it was not as simple, but maybe it is better now.

Here are a couple tweetyourmail examples:

Re: list management question

tweetyourmail.com is one simple way to share a large email. You it to them, they make into a webpage and give you a link that you can share. Readers do not need to join. I had looked in to wuala a long time ago, it was not as simple, but maybe it is better now.

Here are a couple tweetyourmail examples:

Re: list management question

tweetyourmail.com is one simple way to share a large email. You it to them, they make into a webpage and give you a link that you can share. Readers do not need to join. I had looked in to wuala a long time ago, it was not as simple, but maybe it is better now.

Here are a couple tweetyourmail examples:

Lincoln City Oregon now EV Friendly

Nissan Leaf in Oregonian

Re: Nissan Leaf

Nissan Leaf Questions To Mark Perry of Nissan

list management question

Video: OEVA Q&A with Mark Perry

Nissan Leaf event photos

http://bit.ly/7dbGls

Nissan Leaf on Ch2 News @ 11

Nissan Leaf

Nissan Leaf QuestionsTo Mark Perry of Nissan

Re: Electro Automotive Status?

Electro Automotive Status?

All Electric Grand Prix Coming To Paris Next Year

Nissan Leaf is HERE!

Nissan Leaf Video

December Meeting Pictures

Arcimoto Pulse Pictures

240v Charging Volunteer Needed

Electric Bike Buyers Guide

Arcimoto at Washington Square - TODAY!

Dec 22-23
http://bit.ly/8JH55j

Nissan Leaf Questions
To Mark Perry of Nissan

Nissan Leaf Questions
To Mark Perry of Nissan