Nabble - OpenStreetMap

Re: Mapnik Stylesheets

2009-12-23T16:11:47Z

Shaun McDonald <shaun@...> writes:

> On 23 Dec 2009, at 22:14, Matthias Julius wrote:
>
>> One problem with mapnik stylesheets is that they are a chore to
>> work with. Anyone up to implementing a (graphical) stylesheet
>> generator?
>>
>
> That's effectively what the CloudMade style editor does, just you
> can't access the style sheet and host it yourself.

Isn't that then a small step to offer a download option for the
generated stylesheet?

Of course, this is only useful if one uses CM's database schema.

Matthias

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Dev

Re: Reversing of node tags

2009-12-23T16:11:31Z

Hi,

Matthias Julius wrote:
> Even in the case where the node simply connects two ways there is a
> problem if one of them gets reversed.

Yes; the node formerly tagged "incline" would then become either a
summit or a valley ;-)

I think people are currently more or less putting the node in the place
where a typical cyclist's map would have a > or >> symbol.

Bye
Frederik

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - JOSM Dev

Re: Reversing of node tags

2009-12-23T16:02:59Z

Frederik Ramm <frederik@...> writes:

> Hm. There is for example "highway=incline" and "highway=incline_steep",
> used more than 1600 times nodes in Germany alone. They usually come in
> tandem with "incline=xx%" which would have to be turned into
> "incline=-xx%" when the way is reversed.

I would consider those tags on nodes as broken. These should all be
way tags. I would propose to change Map Features in this respect and
have the JOSM Validator, Maplint & Co. put warnings on nodes where
they exist. An incline that "fits" into a node is either so low that
it is not worth tagging at all or is so steep that it should better be
tagged as cliff. ;-)

Actually highway=incline[_steep] should be discouraged alltogether.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:incline mentions incline=up and
incline=down for cases when the exact value is not known. Also,
inline=* can be used for other things beside highways.

>
> You are right in saying that this is ambiguous in theory. In practice,
> of roughly 1650 occurrences in Germany, 1441 were used by only one way;
> 167 were used by two ways (every case I checked was simply where one way
> ended and another began), and 34 were used by more than 2 ways (the most
> adventurous one being http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/302422098
> but this looks like someone has misunderstood something). The remaining
> ones were not used by any way.

Even in the case where the node simply connects two ways there is a
problem if one of them gets reversed.

>
> I don't even known if JOSM handles this correctly at the moment, but if
> it does then it should perhaps not be broken?

JOSM currently looks for left/right, forward/backward,
forwards/backwards and oneway tags, values and relation roles.

There is no reversal for highway=incline. All JOSM could do is put
out a warning.

It certainly makes sense to include incline=* - most of which are on
ways anyway (according to OSMdoc).

Matthias

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - JOSM Dev

Re: [ANN] Parsing Library for OSM

2009-12-23T15:53:04Z

Not yet. I ran in through a 4GB file and it didn't die, but that's all
I've done so far :)

jamesmikedupont@... wrote:

> Nice!
> any figures on performance?
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Tony Morris <tonymorris@...> wrote:
>
>> A library for parsing OpenStreetMap files using HXT into data structures.
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/geo-osm/
>> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/OSM
>>
>> --
>> Tony Morris
>> http://tmorris.net/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev mailing list
>> dev@...
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: [ANN] Parsing Library for OSM

2009-12-23T15:51:42Z

Nice!
any figures on performance?

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Tony Morris <tonymorris@...> wrote:

> A library for parsing OpenStreetMap files using HXT into data structures.
>
> http://code.google.com/p/geo-osm/
> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/OSM
>
> --
> Tony Morris
> http://tmorris.net/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev@...
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Dev

[ANN] Parsing Library for OSM

2009-12-23T15:49:58Z

A library for parsing OpenStreetMap files using HXT into data structures.

http://code.google.com/p/geo-osm/
http://hackage.haskell.org/package/OSM

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Dev

Re: Reversing of node tags

2009-12-23T15:30:56Z

Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+OSM@...> writes:

> While you're at it, if it's simple, it would be nice if it did not bring up
> the "Automatic tag correction" dialog if there is no difference between any
> of the "new value" and "old value" fields. This is common in the case of
> reversing a way that is not oneway, where the tiger:zip_left and
> tiger_zip:right values are the same.

I'll see what I can do.

Matthias

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Re: Mapnik Stylesheets

2009-12-23T15:23:55Z

Am 24.12.2009 00:04, schrieb Matthias Julius:

> Ulf Lamping<ulf.lamping@...> writes:
>
>> Am 23.12.2009 23:14, schrieb Matthias Julius:
>>> Frederik Ramm<frederik@...> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Greg Oseid wrote:
>>>>> Are there other stylesheets available besides the osm.xml file that is
>>>>> included with Mapnik?
>>>>
>>>> I think there's a lot of people who have made their own style sheets and
>>>> who would be willing to share, it's just that we have not agreed on a
>>>> standard way. We should really have some kind of "platform" where people
>>>> can upload their styles and others can build their own variants. Could
>>>> the OSM wiki be used for that, or would it be a case for "put stylesheet
>>>> in SVN and make an illustrated Wiki page documenting it"?
>>>
>>> One problem with mapnik stylesheets is that they are a chore to work
>>> with. Anyone up to implementing a (graphical) stylesheet generator?
>>
>> To be able to write a stylesheet generator, it will be extremely helpful
>> to have more than one stylesheet example to get an idea of what people
>> are actually doing with the stylesheets :-)
>
> Do you need example texts to be able to write a text editor? ;-)

Yes, you need example texts to be able to write a text editor! ;-)

Regards, ULFL

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Re: Reversing of node tags

2009-12-23T15:14:11Z

Hi,

Matthias Julius wrote:
> While looking a the code I noticed that JOSM is looking at all the way
> nodes for reversible tags. Does it even make sense to have nodes with
> direction dependent tags? I doubt that. This is ambiguous when more
> than one way uses that node (and JOSM does not check for this when
> reversing the tags).

Hm. There is for example "highway=incline" and "highway=incline_steep",
used more than 1600 times nodes in Germany alone. They usually come in
tandem with "incline=xx%" which would have to be turned into
"incline=-xx%" when the way is reversed.

You are right in saying that this is ambiguous in theory. In practice,
of roughly 1650 occurrences in Germany, 1441 were used by only one way;
167 were used by two ways (every case I checked was simply where one way
ended and another began), and 34 were used by more than 2 ways (the most
adventurous one being http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/302422098
but this looks like someone has misunderstood something). The remaining
ones were not used by any way.

I don't even known if JOSM handles this correctly at the moment, but if
it does then it should perhaps not be broken?

Bye
Frederik

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Re: Mapnik Stylesheets

2009-12-23T15:04:03Z

Ulf Lamping <ulf.lamping@...> writes:

> Am 23.12.2009 23:14, schrieb Matthias Julius:
>> Frederik Ramm<frederik@...> writes:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Greg Oseid wrote:
>>>> Are there other stylesheets available besides the osm.xml file that is
>>>> included with Mapnik?
>>>
>>> I think there's a lot of people who have made their own style sheets and
>>> who would be willing to share, it's just that we have not agreed on a
>>> standard way. We should really have some kind of "platform" where people
>>> can upload their styles and others can build their own variants. Could
>>> the OSM wiki be used for that, or would it be a case for "put stylesheet
>>> in SVN and make an illustrated Wiki page documenting it"?
>>
>> One problem with mapnik stylesheets is that they are a chore to work
>> with. Anyone up to implementing a (graphical) stylesheet generator?
>
> To be able to write a stylesheet generator, it will be extremely helpful
> to have more than one stylesheet example to get an idea of what people
> are actually doing with the stylesheets :-)

Do you need example texts to be able to write a text editor? ;-)

Matthias

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Re: Mapnik Stylesheets

2009-12-23T15:04:01Z

On 23 Dec 2009, at 22:14, Matthias Julius wrote:

> Frederik Ramm <frederik@...> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Greg Oseid wrote:
>>> Are there other stylesheets available besides the osm.xml file that is
>>> included with Mapnik?
>>
>> I think there's a lot of people who have made their own style sheets and
>> who would be willing to share, it's just that we have not agreed on a
>> standard way. We should really have some kind of "platform" where people
>> can upload their styles and others can build their own variants. Could
>> the OSM wiki be used for that, or would it be a case for "put stylesheet
>> in SVN and make an illustrated Wiki page documenting it"?
>
> One problem with mapnik stylesheets is that they are a chore to work
> with. Anyone up to implementing a (graphical) stylesheet generator?
>

That's effectively what the CloudMade style editor does, just you can't access the style sheet and host it yourself.

Shaun

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Re: Reversing of node tags

2009-12-23T15:03:26Z

At 2009-12-23 13:57, Matthias Julius wrote:
>...
>While looking a the code I noticed that JOSM is looking at all the way
>nodes for reversible tags. Does it even make sense to have nodes with
>direction dependent tags? I doubt that.

I agree. The idea of direction implies a line (at least two points).

>If there are no objections I will remove that from the code.

While you're at it, if it's simple, it would be nice if it did not bring up
the "Automatic tag correction" dialog if there is no difference between any
of the "new value" and "old value" fields. This is common in the case of
reversing a way that is not oneway, where the tiger:zip_left and
tiger_zip:right values are the same.

--
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Re: Mapnik Stylesheets

2009-12-23T14:25:17Z

Am 23.12.2009 23:14, schrieb Matthias Julius:

> Frederik Ramm<frederik@...> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Greg Oseid wrote:
>>> Are there other stylesheets available besides the osm.xml file that is
>>> included with Mapnik?
>>
>> I think there's a lot of people who have made their own style sheets and
>> who would be willing to share, it's just that we have not agreed on a
>> standard way. We should really have some kind of "platform" where people
>> can upload their styles and others can build their own variants. Could
>> the OSM wiki be used for that, or would it be a case for "put stylesheet
>> in SVN and make an illustrated Wiki page documenting it"?
>
> One problem with mapnik stylesheets is that they are a chore to work
> with. Anyone up to implementing a (graphical) stylesheet generator?

To be able to write a stylesheet generator, it will be extremely helpful
to have more than one stylesheet example to get an idea of what people
are actually doing with the stylesheets :-)

Regards, ULFL

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Re: Google launches "Indigenous Mapping" workshop

2009-12-23T14:25:07Z

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Frederik Ramm <frederik@...> wrote:
>
> ... I view all this Google activity not with the same
> skepticism that others seem to have. I think someone who is mapping for
> Google is still better than someone who is not mapping at all!

That's not skepticism, but it's a good point :)

> It takes
> enormous resources to (where reqired)
>
> - explain to people what maps are ;-)
> - make them understand that maps are not god-given or a government thing but
> you can (help) make them yourself
> - train people to look out for the things that are important for map making
>
> A population that has these skills and this knowledge is a much more fertile
> environment for OSM to flourish in - even if that initial awareness has come
> from Google.

But what if that population then consists entirely of Map Maker users?
Is that really beneficial for OSM? I know what you're saying, but it
is reasonable to expect Map Maker users to jump ship to OSM? Is that
even what we should be hoping for?

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Re: Google launches "Indigenous Mapping" workshop

2009-12-23T14:22:11Z

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Peteris Krisjanis <pecisk@...> wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if the "Indigenous Mapping Network" have heard of OSM?
>>
>
> No. Next question?
>
> Why? Google has brand power and solid PR department, which they aren't
> ashamed to put into use.

Why? Because it seems like a very nice (warm and fuzzy) community
mapping project, and it would be nice if it were possible for groups
like this, doing projects like these, to come to OSM rather than (or
as well as!) Google.

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Re: Mapnik Stylesheets

2009-12-23T14:14:28Z

Frederik Ramm <frederik@...> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Greg Oseid wrote:
>> Are there other stylesheets available besides the osm.xml file that is
>> included with Mapnik?
>
> I think there's a lot of people who have made their own style sheets and
> who would be willing to share, it's just that we have not agreed on a
> standard way. We should really have some kind of "platform" where people
> can upload their styles and others can build their own variants. Could
> the OSM wiki be used for that, or would it be a case for "put stylesheet
> in SVN and make an illustrated Wiki page documenting it"?

One problem with mapnik stylesheets is that they are a chore to work
with. Anyone up to implementing a (graphical) stylesheet generator?

Matthias

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Dev

Reversing of node tags

2009-12-23T13:57:47Z

I am currently pondering about http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/4149

(JOSM is producing an exception when the reversal of a way that
included reversing of a tag is undone. This is because the tag
correction is done on a intermediate way which does not belong to a
dataset and when undoing this JOSM tries to look up the nodes from the
node ids in the WayData.)

While looking a the code I noticed that JOSM is looking at all the way
nodes for reversible tags. Does it even make sense to have nodes with
direction dependent tags? I doubt that. This is ambiguous when more
than one way uses that node (and JOSM does not check for this when
reversing the tags).

If there are no objections I will remove that from the code.

Matthias

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Re: Mapnik Stylesheets

2009-12-23T13:50:04Z

Hi!

Am 23.12.2009 02:40, schrieb Greg Oseid:
> Are there other stylesheets available besides the osm.xml file that is
> included with Mapnik? I would think some people would be willing to
> share their work if they went to all the trouble of defining a uniques
> style.

You are right, I am one of those people with a completely different
style sheet. But it is not intended for a raw planet file, has it's own
import style and preprocessing and does do some things differently, so I
figured that it would make no sense to just publish it without a
concrete request.

bye
Nop

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Re: Mapnik Stylesheets

2009-12-23T13:02:09Z

Hi,

Greg Oseid wrote:
> Are there other stylesheets available besides the osm.xml file that is
> included with Mapnik?

I think there's a lot of people who have made their own style sheets and
who would be willing to share, it's just that we have not agreed on a
standard way. We should really have some kind of "platform" where people
can upload their styles and others can build their own variants. Could
the OSM wiki be used for that, or would it be a case for "put stylesheet
in SVN and make an illustrated Wiki page documenting it"?

One difficulty is that stylesheets are often keyed to a specific
osm2pgsql conversion style as well.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: Google launches "Indigenous Mapping" workshop

2009-12-23T12:51:05Z

Hi,

Roy Wallace wrote:
> "Google and the Indigenous Mapping Network are teaming up to put on a
> two day workshop on the Google campus to teach people from native
> communities how to use Google's mapping technologies."
>
> I wonder if the "Indigenous Mapping Network" have heard of OSM?

Maybe not. But then I view all this Google activity not with the same
skepticism that others seem to have. I think someone who is mapping for
Google is still better than someone who is not mapping at all! It takes
enormous resources to (where reqired)

- explain to people what maps are ;-)
- make them understand that maps are not god-given or a government thing
but you can (help) make them yourself
- train people to look out for the things that are important for map making

A population that has these skills and this knowledge is a much more
fertile environment for OSM to flourish in - even if that initial
awareness has come from Google.

Bye
Frederik

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - General

Re: Google blog post: "The meaning of open"

2009-12-23T12:46:51Z

> "Open will win."
>
> Interestingly, there is NO mention of mapping data. Amazing. How can
> they continue to omit this from the discussion?
>

Keep negative PR at minimum, only positive things? Or simply said -
when you have nothing good to say, better be quiet.

P.

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Re: Google launches "Indigenous Mapping" workshop

2009-12-23T12:45:01Z

Op 23-12-09 21:35, Roy Wallace schreef:
> Via http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2009/12/indigenous-mapping-new-google.html
>
> "Google and the Indigenous Mapping Network are teaming up to put on a
> two day workshop on the Google campus to teach people from native
> communities how to use Google's mapping technologies."
>
> I wonder if the "Indigenous Mapping Network" have heard of OSM?

Looking at their Twitter they do :)

Stefan

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Re: Google launches "Indigenous Mapping" workshop

2009-12-23T12:43:34Z

>
> I wonder if the "Indigenous Mapping Network" have heard of OSM?
>

No. Next question?

Why? Google has brand power and solid PR department, which they aren't
ashamed to put into use.

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Google launches "Indigenous Mapping" workshop

2009-12-23T12:35:10Z

Via http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2009/12/indigenous-mapping-new-google.html

"Google and the Indigenous Mapping Network are teaming up to put on a
two day workshop on the Google campus to teach people from native
communities how to use Google's mapping technologies."

I wonder if the "Indigenous Mapping Network" have heard of OSM?

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - General

Configurable number of results in Nominatim ?

2009-12-23T10:32:27Z

Hello,

We are using Nominatim for the new version of MapOSMatic, through the
XML format exported by Nominatim. Nominatim is a *very* useful tool for
MapOSMatic, so thanks a lot to the authors.

However, the current version of Nominatim limits the number of results
to 10. While this makes perfect sense for the Web application, it isn't
really pratical for the XML export.

Is it possible to add support for a &limit=XX argument, where XX is the
number of results required, with 0 being a special value removing the
limit ?

Thanks a lot,

Thomas, from the MapOSMatic team
--
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Re: Mapnik Stylesheets

2009-12-23T09:51:41Z

Hey guys!
Some styles would be great... espeically for the planet.osm stuff,
So if some users can share some of their styles for the planet.osm that would be awesome!

Thank you

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:40:40 -0600
From: goseid@...
To: dev@...
Subject: [OSM-dev] Mapnik Stylesheets

Are there other stylesheets available besides the osm.xml file that is included with Mapnik? I would think some people would be willing to share their work if they went to all the trouble of defining a uniques style. I've seen the style editor at cloudmade, but as far as I can tell it only works with their tile server.

Ideally I would like to serve up some NoName tiles and something similar to the Midnight Commander at cloudmade. I managed to get Mapnik and mod_tile serving tiles on my own server, but seem to be limited to the standard style or re-inventing stylesheets that would fit my need.

Am I missing a resource for sharing stylesheets?

Thanks,

-Greg

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Re: JSON-Decoding-Bug in Nominatim

2009-12-23T07:43:40Z

> See if that works for you now.

Looks fine, thanks!

Peter

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Dev

Re: Login at josm.openstreetmap.de fails

2009-12-23T07:23:44Z

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Karl Guggisberg wrote:

> Currently, it's not possible to login to http://josm.openstreetmap.de.
> Here's what trac says:
...
> Could somebody with server access please have a look?

Seems that had another reason. Should work again now. The question is why
it failed now and worked before. Sometimes the webserver configuration is
more than a miracle to me.

Ciao
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From forum: OpenStreetMap - JOSM Dev

Re: how to map flowing water the easy way?

2009-12-23T07:14:28Z

John Smith wrote:

> 2009/12/23 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@...>:
>
>> i had an idea recently, that it might be possible to map a stream or
>> small river (in an area with poor aerial photo coverage) by using a
>> gps in a waterproof container attached to a flotation device
>>
>
> I had the same thought in about June, but decided it wasn't worth
> pursuing since you would have to figure out how to recover it and
> that's assuming it doesn't get snagged on something or stolen.
>
> About the same time someone announced a GPS received + GSM transmittor
> for shoes for dimentia/alzhimers patients, the would require close
> proximity to a phone network, which may not be as much of an issue in
> other countries as it is here.
>

How about a dog tracker?:

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=209&pID=8576

If the collar got stuck at least you'd be able to find it.
& replacing the transmitter would be cheaper than a GPS unit if it sunk.

Cheers
Dave F.

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - General

Re: JSON-Decoding-Bug in Nominatim

2009-12-23T06:53:10Z

> Ich habe lese mit PHP Daten von der nominatim API via JSON. Das Query
> http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/?q=Stade&format=json
> gibt mir ua. folgende Property aus:
>
> "display_name":"Stade, Avenue de Barbe d\'Or, Mont-de-Marsan, Landes,
> Station Total, Aquitaine, Frankreich"

See if that works for you now.

BTW - on a related note I've just added various extra JSON(P) options
to Nominatim. Documentation here
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim

--
Brian

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Dev

JSON-Decoding-Bug in Nominatim

2009-12-23T06:23:25Z

Hi

Ich habe lese mit PHP Daten von der nominatim API via JSON. Das Query
http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/?q=Stade&format=json
gibt mir ua. folgende Property aus:

"display_name":"Stade, Avenue de Barbe d\'Or, Mont-de-Marsan, Landes,
Station Total, Aquitaine, Frankreich"

das \' führt dabei auf einen PHP 5.3.1 / Win32 zu einem Syntax-Fehler,
mit einem ' funktioniert es. Ich schätze, dass das \' hier überflüssig
ist und entfernt werden kannt, schließe jedoch einen Bug in json_decode
nicht aus.

Lg, Peter

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Dev

Palmanova SuperStar en primera pagina!

2009-12-23T06:17:12Z

Palmanova SuperStar en primera pagina!
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page

Feliz Navidad a todos!
Marcello
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Marcello

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Spanish Talk

Re: Login at josm.openstreetmap.de fails

2009-12-23T01:54:56Z

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Sebastian Klein wrote:

> By the way: I can only use https, when I'm logged in on trac. Would it
> be possible get it to work with plain http? This way it is faster and I
> need not accept the invalid certificate all the time... :)

You can remove the "s" form "https" after login (which means plaintext
data transfer!). I wont change login to http, but its already planned to
have a valid certificate (hoping Fossgis pays for it).

Ciao
--
http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - JOSM Dev

Re: ¿Google maps se ha puestolas botas?

2009-12-23T01:00:18Z

Hace tiempo que tenían esos contenidos. Los consiguieron a partir de
un acuerdo con Páginas Amarillas, y ahora están intentando crear su
propia base de datos con lo que carga la gente.

Lo único que han hecho ha sido enseñarlos en el mapa.

Gari

2009/12/22 Alvaro Lara Cano <yo@...>:

> Estoy viendo que, por lo menos en mi ciudad (BUrgos), google maps ha
> puesto en el callejero: tiendas de ropa, inmobiliarias, autoescuelas,
> bares, restaurantes....etc.
>
> ¿Es para acojonarnos?
>
> Fuera de bromas, supongo que seran establecimientos que aparecen en el
> Buscador patrocinados o algo por el estilo.
>
> NOS ESTÁ GANANDO LA BATALLA!!! A Mapear jejee.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Spanish Talk

Re: Suburb boundaries

2009-12-22T22:31:42Z

One possible approach to this that I believe will solve the more
general case of this is the ability to move selected items to a new
layer, which you can then hide

cheers

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Steve Bennett <stevagewp@...> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:31 PM, John Smith <deltafoxtrot256@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> After that it might be wise to figure out some strategy to monitor
>> changes to admin boundaries to limit the effect of mistakes in future.
>>
>
> I suggest asking the authors of JOSM/Potlatch/... to put in an option to
> hide boundaries. Most of the time they're just in the way, and there's no
> good reason to be editing them, most of the time. (Unlike roads or whatever,
> where you can improve them by matching against the imagery).
>
> Steve
>
>
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> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>

--
Franc

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From forum: OpenStreetMap - Australian Talk