Opensource plugin&webstart - when?

Hello,

Back in February I talked to Mark Reinhold at Fosdem about
open-sourcing the next generation java plugin as well as Webstart -
and was told to expect a release pretty soon.
However until now nothing has happend.

I have a few Webstart / deployment toolkit fixes here myself, but
won't contribute this as long as it remains proprietary code.

Whats the status of all this?

Thanks, Clemens

[gnu_andrew]

2009/8/21 Clemens Eisserer <linuxhippy@...>:

> Hello,
>
> Back in February I talked to Mark Reinhold at Fosdem about
> open-sourcing the next generation java plugin as well as Webstart -
> and was told to expect a release pretty soon.
> However until now nothing has happend.
>
> I have a few Webstart / deployment toolkit fixes here myself, but
> won't contribute this as long as it remains proprietary code.
>
> Whats the status of all this?
>
> Thanks, Clemens
>

Assuming you're referring to the proprietary Sun plugin, the last word
on it was:

http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/jdk6-dev/2009-June/000604.html

squirrelled away on the jdk6-dev list rather than discuss.

There is a Free implementation of the plugin and javaws in IcedTea
which is being rapidly developed in the open.  Given the continued
lack of commitment from Sun on releasing their plugin as part of
OpenJDK, I think our efforts are best served by concentrating
development on the IcedTea plugin rather than banging our collective
heads against a brick wall.  At present, it seems more likely that
this plugin will be upstreamed into OpenJDK (most of the copyright is
held by Red Hat developers who have an SCA with Sun) rather than the
Sun plugin suddenly appearing.

I would, of course, be very happy to be proved wrong on this.
--
Andrew :-)

Free Java Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com)

Support Free Java!
Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
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[gnu_andrew]

2009/8/21 Andrew John Hughes <gnu_andrew@...>:

> 2009/8/21 Clemens Eisserer <linuxhippy@...>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Back in February I talked to Mark Reinhold at Fosdem about
>> open-sourcing the next generation java plugin as well as Webstart -
>> and was told to expect a release pretty soon.
>> However until now nothing has happend.
>>
>> I have a few Webstart / deployment toolkit fixes here myself, but
>> won't contribute this as long as it remains proprietary code.
>>
>> Whats the status of all this?
>>
>> Thanks, Clemens
>>
>
> Assuming you're referring to the proprietary Sun plugin, the last word
> on it was:
>
> http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/jdk6-dev/2009-June/000604.html
>
> squirrelled away on the jdk6-dev list rather than discuss.
>
> There is a Free implementation of the plugin and javaws in IcedTea
> which is being rapidly developed in the open.  Given the continued
> lack of commitment from Sun on releasing their plugin as part of
> OpenJDK, I think our efforts are best served by concentrating
> development on the IcedTea plugin rather than banging our collective
> heads against a brick wall.  At present, it seems more likely that
> this plugin will be upstreamed into OpenJDK (most of the copyright is
> held by Red Hat developers who have an SCA with Sun) rather than the
> Sun plugin suddenly appearing.
>
> I would, of course, be very happy to be proved wrong on this.
> --
> Andrew :-)
>
> Free Java Software Engineer
> Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com)
>
> Support Free Java!
> Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
> http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath
> http://openjdk.java.net
>
> PGP Key: 94EFD9D8 (http://subkeys.pgp.net)
> Fingerprint: F8EF F1EA 401E 2E60 15FA  7927 142C 2591 94EF D9D8
>

I should mention that, given you've looked at the Sun proprietary
code, it would be dangerous to contribute code to the IcedTea plugin.

Bug reports and testing is of course still welcome.
--
Andrew :-)

Free Java Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com)

Support Free Java!
Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath
http://openjdk.java.net

PGP Key: 94EFD9D8 (http://subkeys.pgp.net)
Fingerprint: F8EF F1EA 401E 2E60 15FA  7927 142C 2591 94EF D9D8

I just can't understand the reason of holding those two components
back nore can I imagine any way how to make money out of it.

So it seems to old catch-up game continues again, with
half-"compatible" implementations arround, hurting java's reputation
and user experience.

- Clemens



2009/8/21 Andrew John Hughes <gnu_andrew@...>:

> 2009/8/21 Clemens Eisserer <linuxhippy@...>:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Back in February I talked to Mark Reinhold at Fosdem about
>> open-sourcing the next generation java plugin as well as Webstart -
>> and was told to expect a release pretty soon.
>> However until now nothing has happend.
>>
>> I have a few Webstart / deployment toolkit fixes here myself, but
>> won't contribute this as long as it remains proprietary code.
>>
>> Whats the status of all this?
>>
>> Thanks, Clemens
>>
>
> Assuming you're referring to the proprietary Sun plugin, the last word
> on it was:
>
> http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/jdk6-dev/2009-June/000604.html
>
> squirrelled away on the jdk6-dev list rather than discuss.
>
> There is a Free implementation of the plugin and javaws in IcedTea
> which is being rapidly developed in the open.  Given the continued
> lack of commitment from Sun on releasing their plugin as part of
> OpenJDK, I think our efforts are best served by concentrating
> development on the IcedTea plugin rather than banging our collective
> heads against a brick wall.  At present, it seems more likely that
> this plugin will be upstreamed into OpenJDK (most of the copyright is
> held by Red Hat developers who have an SCA with Sun) rather than the
> Sun plugin suddenly appearing.
>
> I would, of course, be very happy to be proved wrong on this.
> --
> Andrew :-)
>
> Free Java Software Engineer
> Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com)
>
> Support Free Java!
> Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
> http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath
> http://openjdk.java.net
>
> PGP Key: 94EFD9D8 (http://subkeys.pgp.net)
> Fingerprint: F8EF F1EA 401E 2E60 15FA  7927 142C 2591 94EF D9D8
>

[Mark Wielaard]

Hi Clemens,

On Wed, 2009-08-26 at 12:40 -0400, Clemens Eisserer wrote:
> I just can't understand the reason of holding those two components
> back

It isn't clear what is going on. After saying Sun was committed to
releasing the code as Free Software, at conferences, blogs and on the
mailinglists, nothing happened for 6 months. The only communication
since has been "circumstances changed". Nobody knows which circumstances
those are or what changed however. So, for all we know they are still
committed, just delayed. Lets just hope the delay isn't going to be
multiple years. Or that someone from Sun explains what is really going
on now after the commitment and what the expected timeline is.

> So it seems to old catch-up game continues again, with
> half-"compatible" implementations arround, hurting java's reputation
> and user experience.

I think that isn't doing the free alternative justice, compatibility is
of a huge concern. Please do report any bugs you might find. From my own
experience any bugs are taken seriously and patched quickly. All
GNU/Linux distros now ship the IcedTea plugin, so at least across free
platforms things should be pretty compatible.

If history is our guide then improving the GNU implementations till they
are at least as good, or threaten to surpass the proprietary
implementations will trigger proprietary companies into opening op and
working with the community more.

Cheers,

Mark

[gnu_andrew]

2009/8/26 Mark Wielaard <mark@...>:
> If history is our guide then improving the GNU implementations till they
> are at least as good, or threaten to surpass the proprietary
> implementations will trigger proprietary companies into opening op and
> working with the community more.
>

Exactly.  There's nothing to be gained by moaning at Sun.

> Cheers,
>
> Mark
>
>



--
Andrew :-)

Free Java Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com)

Support Free Java!
Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath
http://openjdk.java.net

PGP Key: 94EFD9D8 (http://subkeys.pgp.net)
Fingerprint: F8EF F1EA 401E 2E60 15FA  7927 142C 2591 94EF D9D8

[Mark Wielaard]

BTW. For those that haven't seen it yet, Deepak has a blog which
highlights all the stuff going on around the IcedTea[NP] Plugin, with
roadmaps, technical designs and just plain cool screenshots showing the
various features: http://dbhole.wordpress.com/

[gnu_andrew]

2009/8/26 Mark Wielaard <mark@...>:
> BTW. For those that haven't seen it yet, Deepak has a blog which
> highlights all the stuff going on around the IcedTea[NP] Plugin, with
> roadmaps, technical designs and just plain cool screenshots showing the
> various features: http://dbhole.wordpress.com/
>
>

And already has more features (beyond being the only Free plugin)!

http://dbhole.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/icedtea-java-plugin-with-chromium-and-firefox-3-6a1
--
Andrew :-)

Free Java Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com)

Support Free Java!
Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath
http://openjdk.java.net

PGP Key: 94EFD9D8 (http://subkeys.pgp.net)
Fingerprint: F8EF F1EA 401E 2E60 15FA  7927 142C 2591 94EF D9D8