Opinion sought related to merit badge rules

[gedmisto-2]

I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.

But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.

Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.

The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"  

We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue card).  Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?

I'll give an example:
Citizenship in the Nation MB.
Requirement Two is listed, far below.  

So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation.  Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument.  Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so.

So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also assigned a MB Counselor.  For the sake of this example, lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.

Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned about the site and what was interesting?

Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he received permission to start?

Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
that trip from last month.   If we are still in agreement, then what if the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago...  would he still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?  

Example two:
What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for Oceanography.  Again, they are Webelos.  They will bridge in four months.   They did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge.  Would it be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.

OK, what say you?

======================

Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:

(2) Do TWO of the following:

   1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
   2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
   3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves this nation.
   4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this country's citizens.

[Kenneth-44]

Well, you didn't sign your post, so not sure how to address you other than as GANTTE for now.

In response to your first question or scenario...we all know a boy cannot officially start on a MB until he gets approval from his Unit Leader. Then as far as counting the requirements for the Trip, that is entirely between the Scout and the MB Counselor and what they would deem acceptable.

In regards to the second question or scenario in reference to the Webelos II Scout...the answer is simply NO! They cannot count anything they did before they were registered officially as a Boy Scout...plain and simple.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57

--- In TMTUG@..., "GANTTE" <gantte@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
> I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.
>
> But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.
>
> Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.
>
> The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
> his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"  
>
> We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue card).  Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?
>
> I'll give an example:
> Citizenship in the Nation MB.
> Requirement Two is listed, far below.  
>
> So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation.  Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument.  Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so.
>
> So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also assigned a MB Counselor.  For the sake of this example, lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.
>
> Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned about the site and what was interesting?
>
> Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he received permission to start?
>
> Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
> that trip from last month.   If we are still in agreement, then what if the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago...  would he still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?  
>
> Example two:
> What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for Oceanography.  Again, they are Webelos.  They will bridge in four months.   They did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge.  Would it be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.
>
> OK, what say you?
>
> ======================
>
> Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:
>
> (2) Do TWO of the following:
>
>    1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
>    2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
>    3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves this nation.
>    4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this country's citizens.
>

[Pete & Kathi Knope]

As the BSA Requirements Book already says:

You should also discuss work that you have already started or possibly
completed.
At the first meeting, you and your merit badge counselor will review and
may start working on the requirements. In some cases, you may share with
your counselor the work that you have already started or accomplished.
Unless otherwise specified, work for a requirement can be started at any
time.

The Merit Badge Counselor is the one who decides whether or not
previously done work can count toward the Badge Requirements.

The Scout discusses this with the MBC.

Pete Knope
Scoutmaster Troop 68



GANTTE wrote:

>  
>
>
>
> I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
> I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training
> classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.
>
> But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really
> been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.
>
> Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but
> also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group,
> so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.
>
> The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
> his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"
>
> We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his
> Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to
> the blue card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was
> coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?
>
> I'll give an example:
> Citizenship in the Nation MB.
> Requirement Two is listed, far below.
>
> So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a
> trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many
> of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during
> their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received
> permission to do so.
>
> So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting
> and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation
> and is also assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example,
> lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.
>
> Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by
> choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor
> what he learned about the site and what was interesting?
>
> Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER
> he received permission to start?
>
> Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
> that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if
> the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he
> still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?
>
> Example two:
> What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a
> Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they
> participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the
> requirements for Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will
> bridge in four months. They did not ask for permission and therefore
> were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it
> be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and apply
> it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that once
> they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.
>
> OK, what say you?
>
> ======================
>
> Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:
>
> (2) Do TWO of the following:
>
> 1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or
> that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your
> counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you
> found interesting about it.
> 2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your
> counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the
> history.
> 3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw
> there and what you learned about its function in the local community
> and how it serves this nation.
> 4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books,
> brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other
> resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what
> you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this
> country's citizens.
>

[Reid Simpson-2]

How is this related to Troopmaster Software?

Probably need to take this thread elsewhere, ok?

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Pete & Kathi Knope <knope@...>wrote:

>
>
> As the BSA Requirements Book already says:
> *
> You should also discuss work that you have already started or possibly
> completed.*
> At the first meeting, you and your merit badge counselor will review and
> may start working on the requirements. *In some cases, you may share with
> your counselor the work that you have already started or accomplished.*
> Unless otherwise specified, work for a requirement can be started at any
> time.
>
> The* Merit Badge Counselor* is the one who decides whether or not
> previously done work can count toward the Badge Requirements.
>
> The Scout discusses this with the MBC.
>
> Pete Knope
> Scoutmaster Troop 68
>
>
>
>
> GANTTE wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
> I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes,
> and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.
>
> But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been
> answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.
>
> Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also
> please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we
> may all benefit from the collective wisdom.
>
> The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
> his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"
>
> We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit
> Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue
> card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could
> not be allowed for completion of the badge?
>
> I'll give an example:
> Citizenship in the Nation MB.
> Requirement Two is listed, far below.
>
> So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip
> to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the
> sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip,
> this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do
> so.
>
> So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and
> gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also
> assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example, lets also say it's
> been four weeks since his family trip.
>
> Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his
> visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned
> about the site and what was interesting?
>
> Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he
> received permission to start?
>
> Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
> that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if the
> trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he still be
> allowed to use that trip for this requirement?
>
> Example two:
> What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop.
> They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in
> an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for
> Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They
> did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work
> on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their
> experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and
> get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.
>
> OK, what say you?
>
> ======================
>
> Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:
>
> (2) Do TWO of the following:
>
> 1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is
> on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you
> learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
> 2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your
> counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
> 3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there
> and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it
> serves this nation.
> 4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures,
> the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out
> more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain
> why the monument is important to this country's citizens.
>
>    
>

[gedmisto-2]

Thanks Ken.

Gantt Edmiston
MC - Troop 200
Cary NC

Thanks for your opinion.

--- In TMTUG@..., "Ken" <khartman@...> wrote:

>
> Well, you didn't sign your post, so not sure how to address you other than as GANTTE for now.
>
> In response to your first question or scenario...we all know a boy cannot officially start on a MB until he gets approval from his Unit Leader. Then as far as counting the requirements for the Trip, that is entirely between the Scout and the MB Counselor and what they would deem acceptable.
>
> In regards to the second question or scenario in reference to the Webelos II Scout...the answer is simply NO! They cannot count anything they did before they were registered officially as a Boy Scout...plain and simple.
>
> Ken
> SM-Troop 57
> MC-Pack 57
>

[Pete & Kathi Knope]

Mea Culpa,
I got to reading several groups and forgot which one I was in.  Thought
I was still in B-S-T.  I answered without thinking.
You are right of course.
Pete



Reid Simpson wrote:

>  
>
> How is this related to Troopmaster Software?
>
> Probably need to take this thread elsewhere, ok?
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Pete & Kathi Knope <knope@...
> <mailto:knope@...>> wrote:
>
>      
>
>     As the BSA Requirements Book already says:
>
>     You should also discuss work that you have already started or
>     possibly completed.
>     At the first meeting, you and your merit badge counselor will
>     review and may start working on the requirements. In some cases,
>     you may share with your counselor the work that you have already
>     started or accomplished.
>     Unless otherwise specified, work for a requirement can be started
>     at any time.
>
>     The Merit Badge Counselor is the one who decides whether or not
>     previously done work can count toward the Badge Requirements.
>
>     The Scout discusses this with the MBC.
>
>     Pete Knope
>     Scoutmaster Troop 68
>
>
>
>
>
>     GANTTE wrote:
>
>>      
>>
>>
>>
>>     I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
>>     I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training
>>     classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.
>>
>>     But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never
>>     really been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for
>>     opinions.
>>
>>     Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others,
>>     but also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with
>>     this group, so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.
>>
>>     The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities
>>     from
>>     his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"
>>
>>     We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until
>>     his Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit
>>     equivalent to the blue card). Does that mean that ANY "work",
>>     even if it was coincidental, could not be allowed for completion
>>     of the badge?
>>
>>     I'll give an example:
>>     Citizenship in the Nation MB.
>>     Requirement Two is listed, far below.
>>
>>     So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family
>>     take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation.
>>     Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument.
>>     Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started
>>     Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so.
>>
>>     So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout
>>     meeting and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start
>>     Cit/Nation and is also assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of
>>     this example, lets also say it's been four weeks since his family
>>     trip.
>>
>>     Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by
>>     choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his
>>     counselor what he learned about the site and what was interesting?
>>
>>     Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements
>>     AFTER he received permission to start?
>>
>>     Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout
>>     to use
>>     that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then
>>     what if the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years
>>     ago... would he still be allowed to use that trip for this
>>     requirement?
>>
>>     Example two:
>>     What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging
>>     into a Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point,
>>     where they participated in an Oceanography program and covered
>>     many of the requirements for Oceanography. Again, they are
>>     Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They did not ask for
>>     permission and therefore were not given permission to work on a
>>     Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their
>>     experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography
>>     merit badge and get partial credit toward that once they bridge
>>     and join a Boy Scout Troop.
>>
>>     OK, what say you?
>>
>>     ======================
>>
>>     Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:
>>
>>     (2) Do TWO of the following:
>>
>>     1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark
>>     or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your
>>     counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what
>>     you found interesting about it.
>>     2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell
>>     your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function,
>>     and the history.
>>     3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you
>>     saw there and what you learned about its function in the local
>>     community and how it serves this nation.
>>     4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books,
>>     brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and
>>     other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your
>>     counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is
>>     important to this country's citizens.
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.57/2492 - Release Date: 11/09/09 12:11:00
>
>  
>

[Kenneth-44]

Let's be very clear here...

Those only apply to registered Boy Scouts...nothing a Scout did as a registered Cub Scout in a Webelos Den applies toward work on any Merit Badges.

Otherwise, that is double-dipping.

Ken

--- In TMTUG@..., Pete & Kathi Knope <knope@...> wrote:

>
> As the BSA Requirements Book already says:
>
> You should also discuss work that you have already started or possibly
> completed.
> At the first meeting, you and your merit badge counselor will review and
> may start working on the requirements. In some cases, you may share with
> your counselor the work that you have already started or accomplished.
> Unless otherwise specified, work for a requirement can be started at any
> time.
>
> The Merit Badge Counselor is the one who decides whether or not
> previously done work can count toward the Badge Requirements.
>
> The Scout discusses this with the MBC.
>
> Pete Knope
> Scoutmaster Troop 68
>
>
>
> GANTTE wrote:
>
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
> > I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training
> > classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.
> >
> > But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really
> > been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.
> >
> > Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but
> > also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group,
> > so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.
> >
> > The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
> > his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"
> >
> > We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his
> > Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to
> > the blue card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was
> > coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?
> >
> > I'll give an example:
> > Citizenship in the Nation MB.
> > Requirement Two is listed, far below.
> >
> > So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a
> > trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many
> > of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during
> > their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received
> > permission to do so.
> >
> > So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting
> > and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation
> > and is also assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example,
> > lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.
> >
> > Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by
> > choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor
> > what he learned about the site and what was interesting?
> >
> > Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER
> > he received permission to start?
> >
> > Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
> > that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if
> > the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he
> > still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?
> >
> > Example two:
> > What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a
> > Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they
> > participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the
> > requirements for Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will
> > bridge in four months. They did not ask for permission and therefore
> > were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it
> > be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and apply
> > it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that once
> > they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.
> >
> > OK, what say you?
> >
> > ======================
> >
> > Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:
> >
> > (2) Do TWO of the following:
> >
> > 1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or
> > that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your
> > counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you
> > found interesting about it.
> > 2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your
> > counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the
> > history.
> > 3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw
> > there and what you learned about its function in the local community
> > and how it serves this nation.
> > 4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books,
> > brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other
> > resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what
> > you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this
> > country's citizens.
> >
>

[gedmisto-2]

Thanks Pete for your opinion.  

I had read that in the BSA Requirements Book, however my interpretation of "discussing work that the Scout had already started or possibly completed" was limited strictly to the case of a Scout with a PARTIAL completion, say from summer camp.

If I take the position that unless the Scout had permission to start a MB, under the guidance of a registered MB counselor, there would be no acceptable advance work started.   I think that statement in the BSA Reqs book was meant to cover official partials, and not simply experiences prior to the official start date.  Again, I may be wrong.

However,
I'm warming up to the idea that the MB Counselor should or may have
the option of using a Scouts previous work/experiences, as long as
the counselor does so, simply to ensure the Scouts does no more and no less than the MB requirements.

Gantt

--- In TMTUG@..., Pete & Kathi Knope <knope@...> wrote:

>
> As the BSA Requirements Book already says:
>
> You should also discuss work that you have already started or possibly
> completed.
> At the first meeting, you and your merit badge counselor will review and
> may start working on the requirements. In some cases, you may share with
> your counselor the work that you have already started or accomplished.
> Unless otherwise specified, work for a requirement can be started at any
> time.
>
> The Merit Badge Counselor is the one who decides whether or not
> previously done work can count toward the Badge Requirements.
>
> The Scout discusses this with the MBC.
>
> Pete Knope
> Scoutmaster Troop 68
>
>
>

[gedmisto-2]

Oh... hand on face... I am *SO* sorry, I thought I was in
Boy-Scout-Talk group....

My most humble apologies...

Please everyone, I'm sorry, please don't reply here.

I'll blame it on my new glasses that I just got today... still trying to figure out this "progressive" prescription!



--- In TMTUG@..., Reid Simpson <reid.l.simpson@...> wrote:
>
> How is this related to Troopmaster Software?
>
> Probably need to take this thread elsewhere, ok?
>
]

[Ron L]

I am in agreement with Ken. Rank and merit badge work can be started
only after the scout has joined the unit. No work done prior to the
scouts joining the unit should be accepted for rank. Merit badge work
done prior to acquiring approval form his scoutmaster (signed blue card
if the unit uses them) is NOT acceptable. All Merit Badge work MUST be
done AFTER the scout obtains leadership approval to start the badge.
Where would you draw the line for work done prior....1 month, 6 months,
a year????? By requiring approval before starting a badge would
eliminate any question as to what is and what is not acceptable.

 

Below is an excerpt from the Boy Scout Trail website
http://www.boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/merit-badges-emblems.asp that
states clearly what should be done in reference to the above.

 

Process:

When a scout decides to earn a merit badge, he first obtains approval to
begin from his Scoutmaster. The Scoutmaster provides the scout with
names of appropriate BSA merit badge counselors. The scout finds a scout
buddy to be his partner for meetings with the merit badge counselor to
follow safe scouting guidelines. He then contacts the counselor to start
working on the badge. The counselor reviews the requirements with the
scouts and they decide on projects and a schedule. Expertise, advice,
and guidance as needed are offered by the counselor to the scouts. The
counselor certifies their completion and the merit badge are presented
at a troop meeting.

 

I hope this information helps to clarify the groups
question..............

 

Yours in Scouting,

 

Ron LaNeve

Scoutmaster - Troop 305

Advisor - Crew 6 / 305

District Membership Chairman - Pioneer District

Technology Committee - South Florida Council

NYLT Staff Registrar

Merit Badge Staff Registrar

Micron Management Services

ph: 954.499.3671

fax: [phone]

mobile: [phone]

email: rlaneve@...

web: www.micron-mgt.com

"Your One Source For Total System Solutions"

 

*** HIPAA CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE ***This email message and
its contents contain confidential and privileged information intended
only for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above.  Any
unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by email immediately and destroy all copies of the original

 

-----Original Message-----
From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
Ken
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:58 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: [TMTUG] Re: Opinion sought related to merit badge rules

 

 

 

Let's be very clear here...

 

Those only apply to registered Boy Scouts...nothing a Scout did as a
registered Cub Scout in a Webelos Den applies toward work on any Merit
Badges.

 

Otherwise, that is double-dipping.

 

Ken

 

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , Pete &
Kathi Knope <knope@...> wrote:

>

> As the BSA Requirements Book already says:

>

> You should also discuss work that you have already started or possibly


> completed.

> At the first meeting, you and your merit badge counselor will review
and

> may start working on the requirements. In some cases, you may share
with

> your counselor the work that you have already started or accomplished.

> Unless otherwise specified, work for a requirement can be started at
any

> time.

>

> The Merit Badge Counselor is the one who decides whether or not

> previously done work can count toward the Badge Requirements.

>

> The Scout discusses this with the MBC.

>

> Pete Knope

> Scoutmaster Troop 68

>

>

>

> GANTTE wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.

> > I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training

> > classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.

> >

> > But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really

> > been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.

> >

> > Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others,
but

> > also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this
group,

> > so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.

> >

> > The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities
from

> > his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"

> >

> > We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until
his

> > Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent
to

> > the blue card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was

> > coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?

> >

> > I'll give an example:

> > Citizenship in the Nation MB.

> > Requirement Two is listed, far below.

> >

> > So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a


> > trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among
many

> > of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during


> > their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not
received

> > permission to do so.

> >

> > So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting

> > and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation


> > and is also assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example,

> > lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.

> >

> > Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by

> > choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his
counselor

> > what he learned about the site and what was interesting?

> >

> > Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER


> > he received permission to start?

> >

> > Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to
use

> > that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what
if

> > the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he

> > still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?

> >

> > Example two:

> > What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a


> > Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they

> > participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the

> > requirements for Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will

> > bridge in four months. They did not ask for permission and therefore


> > were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would
it

> > be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and
apply

> > it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that
once

> > they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.

> >

> > OK, what say you?

> >

> > ======================

> >

> > Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:

> >

> > (2) Do TWO of the following:

> >

> > 1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or

> > that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your

> > counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you

> > found interesting about it.

> > 2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your

> > counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the

> > history.

> > 3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw

> > there and what you learned about its function in the local community


> > and how it serves this nation.

> > 4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books,

> > brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other

> > resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor
what

> > you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this

> > country's citizens.

> >

>

 

 

 

[Ron L]

I am in agreement with Ken.

Rank and merit badge work should be started only after the scout has
joined the unit. No work done prior to the scouts joining the unit
should be accepted for rank. Merit badge work done prior to acquiring
approval form his scoutmaster (signed blue card if the unit uses them)
is NOT acceptable. All Merit Badge work MUST be done AFTER the scout
obtains leadership approval to start the badge. Where would you draw the
line for work done prior….1 month, 6 months, a year????? By
requiring approval before starting a badge would eliminate any question
as to what is and what is not acceptable.

Below is an excerpt from the Boy Scout Trail website
http://www.boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/merit-badges-emblems.asp
<http://www.boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/merit-badges-emblems.asp>  that
states clearly what should be done in reference to the above.

Process:

When a scout decides to earn a merit badge, he first obtains approval to
begin from his Scoutmaster. The Scoutmaster provides the scout with
names of appropriate BSA merit badge counselors. The scout finds a scout
buddy to be his partner for meetings with the merit badge counselor to
follow safe scouting guidelines. He then contacts the counselor to start
working on the badge. The counselor reviews the requirements with the
scouts and they decide on projects and a schedule. Expertise, advice,
and guidance as needed are offered by the counselor to the scouts. The
counselor certifies their completion and the merit badge are presented
at a troop meeting.



I hope this information helps to clarify the groups
question…………..



Yours In Scouting

Ron LaNeve

Scoutmaster - Troop 305

Advisor - Crew 6 / 305

District Membership Chairman - Pioneer District

Technology Committee - South Florida Council

NYLT Staff Registrar

Merit Badge College Staff Registrar

Micron Management Services

ph: 954.499.3671

fax: [phone]

mobile: [phone]

email: rlaneve@...

web: www.micron-mgt.com

"Your One Source For Total System Solutions"

[Kenneth-44]

Gantt,

LOL...I'm gonna try using that excuse when I have to break down and give in to going to "progressive lenses" myself...LOL...I like that.

We've all gotten off topic before here at one point or another though, so don't feel bad.

You might also next time something like that comes up, aside from posing the question in B-S-T also try Scouting Community.

Maybe in the Forum discussion under "Youth Recognition/Advancement" at https://community.scouting.org/forums/581.aspx

I'm sure there are other areas in the SC that would be very helpful as well.

Good Luck!

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57

--- In TMTUG@..., "GANTTE" <gantte@...> wrote:

>
> Oh... hand on face... I am *SO* sorry, I thought I was in
> Boy-Scout-Talk group....
>
> My most humble apologies...
>
> Please everyone, I'm sorry, please don't reply here.
>
> I'll blame it on my new glasses that I just got today... still trying to figure out this "progressive" prescription!
>
>
>
> --- In TMTUG@..., Reid Simpson <reid.l.simpson@> wrote:
> >
> > How is this related to Troopmaster Software?
> >
> > Probably need to take this thread elsewhere, ok?
> >
> ]
>

[Matt Price]

The correct answer to the question is:

The Merit Badge Counselor, if he or she feels comfortable that the scout has
learned the specific requirement, and has shown substantial knowledge, can
take the initiative to sign off, or ask the scout to highlight or
demonstrate the knowledge.

However, if the requirement says:  "Demonstrate", then he is required to
demonstrate the skill, if it says "Show" then he must show, etc.

However, if the Merit Badge Counselor believes that there is nothing value
added to the scout doing the requirement over again, then the MBC can make
that call.

It is important to understand that the MBC, NOT THE SCOUTMASTER, makes that
call.

Matt Price
Unit Commissioner
Hemlock District
Occoneechee Council, BSA

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, GANTTE <gantte@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
> I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes,
> and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.
>
> But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been
> answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.
>
> Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also
> please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we
> may all benefit from the collective wisdom.
>
> The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
> his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"
>
> We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit
> Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue
> card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could
> not be allowed for completion of the badge?
>
> I'll give an example:
> Citizenship in the Nation MB.
> Requirement Two is listed, far below.
>
> So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip
> to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the
> sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip,
> this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do
> so.
>
> So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and
> gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also
> assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example, lets also say it's
> been four weeks since his family trip.
>
> Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his
> visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned
> about the site and what was interesting?
>
> Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he
> received permission to start?
>
> Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
> that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if the
> trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he still be
> allowed to use that trip for this requirement?
>
> Example two:
> What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop.
> They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in
> an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for
> Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They
> did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work
> on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their
> experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and
> get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.
>
> OK, what say you?
>
> ======================
>
> Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:
>
> (2) Do TWO of the following:
>
> 1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is
> on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you
> learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
> 2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your
> counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
> 3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there
> and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it
> serves this nation.
> 4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures,
> the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out
> more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain
> why the monument is important to this country's citizens.
>
>  
>

--
Thanks!
Matthew Price

[Matt Price]

"So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip
to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the
sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip,
this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do
so."

Additionally, it states specifically: "A scout may begin working on the
merit badge at any time."

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, GANTTE <gantte@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
> I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes,
> and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.
>
> But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been
> answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.
>
> Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also
> please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we
> may all benefit from the collective wisdom.
>
> The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
> his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"
>
> We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit
> Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue
> card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could
> not be allowed for completion of the badge?
>
> I'll give an example:
> Citizenship in the Nation MB.
> Requirement Two is listed, far below.
>
> So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip
> to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the
> sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip,
> this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do
> so.
>
> So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and
> gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also
> assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example, lets also say it's
> been four weeks since his family trip.
>
> Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his
> visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned
> about the site and what was interesting?
>
> Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he
> received permission to start?
>
> Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
> that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if the
> trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he still be
> allowed to use that trip for this requirement?
>
> Example two:
> What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop.
> They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in
> an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for
> Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They
> did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work
> on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their
> experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and
> get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.
>
> OK, what say you?
>
> ======================
>
> Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:
>
> (2) Do TWO of the following:
>
> 1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is
> on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you
> learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
> 2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your
> counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
> 3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there
> and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it
> serves this nation.
> 4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures,
> the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out
> more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain
> why the monument is important to this country's citizens.
>
>  
>

--
Thanks!
Matthew Price

[Dana Jay Clark]

Anyone having issues getting onto TroopMaster Web?

I did the Database upload then tried accessing my website, getting the following error  "Cannot open database ''. It may not be a database that your application recognizes, or the file may be corrupt."

Reloaded the database again and get the same error.  Also the error reporting link is not working correctly.

Any ideas?

Dana Clark
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Matt Price
  To: TMTUG@...
  Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Opinion sought related to merit badge rules


   
  "So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so."

  Additionally, it states specifically: "A scout may begin working on the merit badge at any time."



  On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, GANTTE <gantte@...> wrote:

     


    I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
    I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.

    But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.

    Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.

    The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
    his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"

    We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?

    I'll give an example:
    Citizenship in the Nation MB.
    Requirement Two is listed, far below.

    So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so.

    So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example, lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.

    Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned about the site and what was interesting?

    Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he received permission to start?

    Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
    that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?

    Example two:
    What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.

    OK, what say you?

    ======================

    Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:

    (2) Do TWO of the following:

    1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
    2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
    3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves this nation.
    4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this country's citizens.






  --
  Thanks!
  Matthew Price


 

[David Stroud-2]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

 

I thought it was just me. :)

Guess they are having server problems.

David S
Scoutmaster, Troop 3

-------- Original Message  --------
Subject: [TMTUG] TroopMaster Web
From: Dana Jay Clark dana.clark@...
To: TMTUG@...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:44:35 -0600

 

Anyone having issues getting onto TroopMaster Web?

 

I did the Database upload then tried accessing my website, getting the following error  "Cannot open database ''. It may not be a database that your application recognizes, or the file may be corrupt."

 

Reloaded the database again and get the same error.  Also the error reporting link is not working correctly.

 

Any ideas?

 

Dana Clark

----- Original Message -----

From: admyank@...

To: TMTUG@...

Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:18 PM

Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Opinion sought related to merit badge rules

 

"So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so."

Additionally, it states specifically: "A scout may begin working on the merit badge at any time."

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, GANTTE <gantte@...> wrote:

 

I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.

But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.

Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.

The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"

We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?

I'll give an example:
Citizenship in the Nation MB.
Requirement Two is listed, far below.

So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so.

So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example, lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.

Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned about the site and what was interesting?

Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he received permission to start?

Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?

Example two:
What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.

OK, what say you?

======================

Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:

(2) Do TWO of the following:

1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves this nation.
4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this country's citizens.

--
Thanks!
Matthew Price

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[Dana Jay Clark]

Ok good to know that it wasn't just me either.

Dana
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: David W. Stroud
  To: TMTUG@...
  Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [TMTUG] TroopMaster Web


   
  I thought it was just me. :)

  Guess they are having server problems.

  David S
  Scoutmaster, Troop 3

  -------- Original Message  --------
  Subject: [TMTUG] TroopMaster Web
  From: Dana Jay Clark <dana.clark@...>
  To: TMTUG@...
  Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:44:35 -0600


     

    Anyone having issues getting onto TroopMaster Web?

    I did the Database upload then tried accessing my website, getting the following error  "Cannot open database ''. It may not be a database that your application recognizes, or the file may be corrupt."

    Reloaded the database again and get the same error.  Also the error reporting link is not working correctly.

    Any ideas?

    Dana Clark
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Matt Price
      To: TMTUG@...
      Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:18 PM
      Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Opinion sought related to merit badge rules


       
      "So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so."

      Additionally, it states specifically: "A scout may begin working on the merit badge at any time."



      On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, GANTTE <gantte@...> wrote:

         


        I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
        I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.

        But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.

        Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.

        The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
        his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"

        We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?

        I'll give an example:
        Citizenship in the Nation MB.
        Requirement Two is listed, far below.

        So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so.

        So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example, lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.

        Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned about the site and what was interesting?

        Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he received permission to start?

        Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
        that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?

        Example two:
        What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.

        OK, what say you?

        ======================

        Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:

        (2) Do TWO of the following:

        1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
        2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
        3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves this nation.
        4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this country's citizens.






      --
      Thanks!
      Matthew Price




 

[Terry G. Kennedy-2]

Had the same thing happen to me about 15 minutes ago.  Prior to that, it was
working fine.

 

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Dana
Jay Clark
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:45 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: [TMTUG] TroopMaster Web

 

 

Anyone having issues getting onto TroopMaster Web?

 

I did the Database upload then tried accessing my website, getting the
following error  "Cannot open database ''. It may not be a database that
your application recognizes, or the file may be corrupt."

 

Reloaded the database again and get the same error.  Also the error
reporting link is not working correctly.

 

Any ideas?

 

Dana Clark

----- Original Message -----

From: Matt Price <mailto:admyank@...>  

To: TMTUG@...

Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:18 PM

Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Opinion sought related to merit badge rules

 

 

"So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip
to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the
sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip,
this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do
so."

Additionally, it states specifically: "A scout may begin working on the
merit badge at any time."

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, GANTTE <gantte@...> wrote:

 



I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes, and
have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.

But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been
answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.

Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also
please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we
may all benefit from the collective wisdom.

The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/activities from
his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"

We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit
Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue
card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could
not be allowed for completion of the badge?

I'll give an example:
Citizenship in the Nation MB.
Requirement Two is listed, far below.

So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to
Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights,
they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout
had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so.

So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and gets
a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also
assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example, lets also say it's
been four weeks since his family trip.

Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his
visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned
about the site and what was interesting?

Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he
received permission to start?

Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if the
trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he still be
allowed to use that trip for this requirement?

Example two:
What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop.
They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in
an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for
Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They
did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work
on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their
experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and
get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.

OK, what say you?

======================

Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:

(2) Do TWO of the following:

1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is
on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you
learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor
what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and
what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves
this nation.
4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures,
the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out
more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain
why the monument is important to this country's citizens.




--
Thanks!
Matthew Price

[David Wildschuetz]

Now think about what recourse you have when this happens after it goes live.  At least with the client software, you still have access to data from your last pull from dot.net. 

If this new feature can be used in conjuction with the client-based version, I'd be willing to try it.  But, if it's one or the other, I'd have to say "No" to the web-based.

David


________________________________
From: Terry G. Kennedy <tgkennedy1@...>
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 4:50:12 PM
Subject: RE: [TMTUG] TroopMaster Web

 
Had the same thing happen to me about 15 minutes ago.  Prior to that, it was working fine.
 
From:TMTUG@yahoogroups. com [mailto:TMTUG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dana Jay Clark
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:45 PM
To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [TMTUG] TroopMaster Web
 
 
Anyone having issues getting onto TroopMaster Web?
 
I did the Database upload then tried accessing my website, getting the following error  "Cannot open database ''. It may not be a database that your application recognizes, or the file may be corrupt."
 
Reloaded the database again and get the same error.  Also the error reporting link is not working correctly.
 
Any ideas?
 
Dana Clark
----- Original Message -----

>From:Matt Price
>To:TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
>Sent:Monday, November 09, 2009 3:18 PM
>Subject:Re: [TMTUG] Opinion sought related to merit badge rules
> 
> 
>"So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so."
>
>Additionally, it states specifically: "A scout may begin working on the merit badge at any time."
>On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, GANTTE <gantte@gmail. com> wrote:
> 
>
>
>I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
>I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.
>
>But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.
>
>Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.
>
>The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/ activities from
>his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"
>
>We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?
>
>I'll give an example:
>Citizenship in the Nation MB.
>Requirement Two is listed, far below.
>
>So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so.
>
>So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example, lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.
>
>Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned about the site and what was interesting?
>
>Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he received permission to start?
>
>Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
>that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?
>
>Example two:
>What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.
>
>OK, what say you?
>
>============ ========= =
>
>Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:
>
>(2) Do TWO of the following:
>
>1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
>2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
>3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves this nation.
>4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this country's citizens.
>
>
>
>--
>Thanks!
>Matthew Price

[Terry G. Kennedy-2]

You have to use both.  The Web portion of it is really just a view into the data that the Client and dot.net feature use.  However, the benefit is that it allows for some entry away from the client app which can later be synced up with your complete DB.  It also allows scouts/parents to view advancement progress that is recorded without having to install or run a satellite version of the TM software.  You specify which scout(s) you want them to see and other capabilities based on their Web login.  I think it is going to be a nice compliment to an already outstanding product!

 

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of David Wildschuetz
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 6:03 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] TroopMaster Web

 

 

 

Now think about what recourse you have when this happens after it goes live.  At least with the client software, you still have access to data from your last pull from dot.net.  

 

If this new feature can be used in conjuction with the client-based version, I'd be willing to try it.  But, if it's one or the other, I'd have to say "No" to the web-based.

 

David

  _____  

From: Terry G. Kennedy <tgkennedy1@...>
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 4:50:12 PM
Subject: RE: [TMTUG] TroopMaster Web

 

Had the same thing happen to me about 15 minutes ago.  Prior to that, it was working fine.

 

From: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com [mailto:TMTUG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dana Jay Clark
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:45 PM
To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [TMTUG] TroopMaster Web

 

 

Anyone having issues getting onto TroopMaster Web?

 

I did the Database upload then tried accessing my website, getting the following error  "Cannot open database ''. It may not be a database that your application recognizes, or the file may be corrupt."

 

Reloaded the database again and get the same error.  Also the error reporting link is not working correctly.

 

Any ideas?

 

Dana Clark

----- Original Message -----

From: Matt Price <mailto:admyank@...>  

To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com <mailto:TMTUG@...>  

Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:18 PM

Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Opinion sought related to merit badge rules

 

 

"So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so."

Additionally, it states specifically: "A scout may begin working on the merit badge at any time."

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, GANTTE <gantte@gmail. com <mailto:gantte@...> > wrote:

 



I would like to submit to this group, a topic for discussion.
I am an experienced Scouter, I have completed many BSA training classes, and have myself TAUGHT Merit Badge Counselor Orientation.

But there is an area related to merit badges, that has never really been answered and I'll lay out the scenario, and ask for opinions.

Please be civil in your replies and honor the opinions of others, but also please take time to HAVE an opinion and share it with this group, so that we may all benefit from the collective wisdom.

The core question is, "Can a boy Scout use experiences/ activities from
his past, in completion of a merit badge's requirements?"

We all know, that a Scout may not begin working on a badge, until his Unit Leader has signed his blue card (or the local unit equivalent to the blue card). Does that mean that ANY "work", even if it was coincidental, could not be allowed for completion of the badge?

I'll give an example:
Citizenship in the Nation MB.
Requirement Two is listed, far below.

So to highlight my question, let's say a Scout and his family take a trip to Washington DC over the summer for family vacation. Among many of the sights, they visit the Washington Monument. Before and during their trip, this Scout had not started Cit/Nation and had not received permission to do so.

So one month later, summer is over, and he comes to a Scout meeting and gets a signed blue card from his Unit Leader to start Cit/Nation and is also assigned a MB Counselor. For the sake of this example, lets also say it's been four weeks since his family trip.

Would it be acceptable for him to complete requirement 2.1, by choosing his visit to the Washington monument, and tell his counselor what he learned about the site and what was interesting?

Or would the rules ONLY allow the Scout to do the requirements AFTER he received permission to start?

Now... it seems to me that good judgment would allow this Scout to use
that trip from last month. If we are still in agreement, then what if the trip to Wash. DC was a year ago, or three years ago... would he still be allowed to use that trip for this requirement?

Example two:
What if the Scout was a Webelos II, four months from bridging into a Troop. They went on an activity, say to Patriot's Point, where they participated in an Oceanography program and covered many of the requirements for Oceanography. Again, they are Webelos. They will bridge in four months. They did not ask for permission and therefore were not given permission to work on a Boy Scout merit badge. Would it be acceptable to take their experiences, in say four months and apply it to Oceanography merit badge and get partial credit toward that once they bridge and join a Boy Scout Troop.

OK, what say you?

============ ========= =

Citizenship in the Nation MB, requirement Two:

(2) Do TWO of the following:

1. Visit a place that is listed as a National Historic Landmark or that is on the National Register of Historic Places. Tell your counselor what you learned about the landmark or site and what you found interesting about it.
2. Tour your state capitol building or the U.S. Capitol. Tell your counselor what you learned about the capitol, its function, and the history.
3. Tour a federal facility. Explain to your counselor what you saw there and what you learned about its function in the local community and how it serves this nation.
4. Choose a national monument that interests you. Using books, brochures, the Internet (with your parent's permission), and other resources, find out more about the monument. Tell your counselor what you learned, and explain why the monument is important to this country's citizens.




--
Thanks!
Matthew Price