Nabble - PIC - [OT]

Re: Selamat Hari Natal

2009-12-24T11:04:33Z

On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 01:02:18 +1300, "Russell McMahon"
<apptechnz@...> said:
> >From the dawn of time -

And from space, the final frontier:

"QISmaS Quch Daghajjaj"

:) Bob

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Re: Selamat Hari Natal

2009-12-24T10:56:46Z

----- Original Message ----
The dutch get their wishes 3 times.

> Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een Gelukkig Nieuwjaar! or Zalig Kerstfeast

That's 1 & 2 The "or" here is in english.

[snip]

> Zalig Kerstfeest en Gelukkig nieuw jaar
And that's 3.

Thank you, dank u.

A merry christmas to all.

Peter van Hoof.

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Re: Selamat Hari Natal

2009-12-24T08:28:37Z

Russell,
You think you are the Pope and disaptching his Urbi & Orbi mesasge to mankind
;-)

Joyeux Noel!

Selon John Chung <kravnus@...>:

> Russell,
>
> Try translating this*Hint Bahasa Melayu*:
> Terima kasih atas ucapan kamu. Saya harap kamu akan menyambut
> Hari Natal dengan bahagia dan makmur.
>
> Merry Christmas,
> John
>
> --- On Thu, 12/24/09, Russell McMahon <apptechnz@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Russell McMahon <apptechnz@...>
> > Subject: [OT]:: Selamat Hari Natal
> > To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclist@...>
> > Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 4:32 PM
> > >From the dawn of time -
> >
> > Geseënde Kersfees
> > Een Plesierige Kerfees
> > Rehus-Beal-Ledeats
> > Gezur Krislinjden
> > Milad Majid
> > Feliz Navidad
> > Shenoraavor Nor Dari yev Pari Gaghand
> > Tezze Iliniz Yahsi Olsun
> > Selamat Hari Natal
> > Zorionak eta Urte Berri On!
> > Shuvo Naba Barsha
> > Vesele Vanoce
> > Cestit Bozic i Sretna Nova godina
> > Feliz Natal
> > Nedeleg laouen na bloavezh mat
> > Tchestita Koleda; Tchestito Rojdestvo Hristovo
> > Bon Nadal i un Bon Any Nou!
> > Feliz Navidad
> > Gun Tso Sun Tan'Gung Haw Sun
> > Kung His Hsin Nien bing Chu Shen Tan
> > Yukpa, Nitak Hollo Chito
> > Feliz Navidad y Próspero Año Nuevo
> > Nadelik looan na looan blethen noweth
> > Pace e salute
> > Rot Yikji Dol La Roo
> > Mitho Makosi Kesikansi
> > Sretan Bozic
> > Prejeme Vam Vesele Vanoce a stastny Novy Rok
> > Glædelig Jul
> > Christmas-e- Shoma Mobarak
> > Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een Gelukkig Nieuwjaar! or Zalig
> > Kerstfeast
> > Merry Christmas
> > Jutdlime pivdluarit ukiortame pivdluaritlo!
> > Gajan Kristnaskon
> > Rõõmsaid Jõulupühi
> > Melkin Yelidet Beaal
> > Gledhilig jol og eydnurikt nyggjar!
> > Cristmas-e-shoma mobarak bashad
> > Hyvaa joulua
> > Zalig Kerstfeest en Gelukkig nieuw jaar
> > Joyeux Noel
> > Noflike Krystdagen en in protte Lok en Seine yn it Nije
> > Jier!
> > Bo Nada
> > Nollaig chridheil agus Bliadhna mhath ùr!
> > Fröhliche Weihnachten
> > Kala Christouyenna!
> > Jwaye Nowel or to Jesus Edo Bri'cho o Rish D'Shato
> > Brichto
> > Barka da Kirsimatikuma Barka da Sabuwar Shekara!
> > Mele Kalikimaka
> > Mo'adim Lesimkha. Chena tova
> > [Shub Naya Baras]
> > Kellemes Karacsonyi unnepeket
> > Gledileg Jol
> > Selamat Hari Natal
> > Idah Saidan Wa Sanah Jadidah
> > Nollaig Shona Dhuit, or Nodlaig mhaith chugnat
> > Ojenyunyat Sungwiyadeson honungradon nagwutut. Ojenyunyat
> > osrasay.
> > Buone Feste Natalizie
> > Shinnen omedeto. Kurisumasu Omedeto
> > Mithag Crithagsigathmithags
> > Sung Tan Chuk Ha
> > souksan van Christmas
> > Natale hilare et Annum Faustum!
> > Prieci'gus Ziemsve'tkus un Laimi'gu Jauno Gadu!
> > Wjesole hody a strowe nowe leto
> > Priecigus Ziemassvetkus
> > Linksmu Kaledu
> > Heughliche Winachten un 'n moi Nijaar
> > Schèine Chreschtdaag an e gudde Rutsch
> > Sreken Bozhik
> > IL-Milied It-tajjeb
> > Nollick ghennal as blein vie noa
> > Meri Kirihimete
> > [Shub Naya Varsh]
> > Merry Keshmish
> > God Jul, or Gledelig Jul
> > Pulit nadal e bona annado
> > Bon Pasco
> > Bikpela hamamas blong dispela Krismas na Nupela yia i go
> > long yu
> > En frehlicher Grischtdaag un en hallich Nei Yaahr!
> > Feliz Navidad y un Venturoso Año Nuevo
> > Maligayang Pasko!
> > Wesolych Swiat Bozego Narodzenia or Boze Narodzenie
> > Feliz Natal
> > Christmas Aao Ne-way Kaal Mo Mobarak Sha
> > Mata-Ki-Te-Rangi. Te-Pito-O-Te-Henua
> > Bellas festas da nadal e bun onn
> > Legreivlas fiastas da Nadal e bien niev onn!
> > Sarbatori vesele or Craciun fericit
> > Pozdrevlyayu s prazdnikom Rozhdestva is Novim Godom
> > Buorrit Juovllat
> > La Maunia Le Kilisimasi Ma Le Tausaga Fou
> > Bonu nadale e prosperu annu nou
> > Nollaig chridheil huibh
> > Hristos se rodi.
> > Subha nath thalak Vewa. Subha Aluth Awrudhak Vewa
> > Vesele Vianoce. A stastlivy Novy Rok
> > Vesele Bozicne Praznike Srecno Novo Leto or Vesel Bozic in
> > srecno Novo leto
> > Feliz Navidad
> > God Jul and (Och) Ett Gott Nytt År
> > Maligayamg Pasko. Masaganang Bagong Taon
> > [ Nathar Puthu Varuda Valthukkal]
> > Neekiriisimas annim oo iyer seefe feyiyeech!
> > Sawadee Pee Mai or souksan wan Christmas
> > Noeliniz Ve Yeni Yiliniz Kutlu Olsun
> > Srozhdestvom Kristovym or Z RIZDVOM HRYSTOVYM
> > [Naya Saal Mubarak Ho]
> > Chuc Mung Giang Sinh
> > Nadolig Llawen
> > E ku odun, e ku iye'dun!
> >
> >
> >
> > Russell
> >
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
>
>
>
>
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Re: Selamat Hari Natal

2009-12-24T08:18:47Z

Russell,

Try translating this*Hint Bahasa Melayu*:
Terima kasih atas ucapan kamu. Saya harap kamu akan menyambut
Hari Natal dengan bahagia dan makmur.

Merry Christmas,
John

--- On Thu, 12/24/09, Russell McMahon <apptechnz@...> wrote:

> From: Russell McMahon <apptechnz@...>
> Subject: [OT]:: Selamat Hari Natal
> To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclist@...>
> Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 4:32 PM
> >From the dawn of time -
>
> Geseënde Kersfees
> Een Plesierige Kerfees
> Rehus-Beal-Ledeats
> Gezur Krislinjden
> Milad Majid
> Feliz Navidad
> Shenoraavor Nor Dari yev Pari Gaghand
> Tezze Iliniz Yahsi Olsun
> Selamat Hari Natal
> Zorionak eta Urte Berri On!
> Shuvo Naba Barsha
> Vesele Vanoce
> Cestit Bozic i Sretna Nova godina
> Feliz Natal
> Nedeleg laouen na bloavezh mat
> Tchestita Koleda; Tchestito Rojdestvo Hristovo
> Bon Nadal i un Bon Any Nou!
> Feliz Navidad
> Gun Tso Sun Tan'Gung Haw Sun
> Kung His Hsin Nien bing Chu Shen Tan
> Yukpa, Nitak Hollo Chito
> Feliz Navidad y Próspero Año Nuevo
> Nadelik looan na looan blethen noweth
> Pace e salute
> Rot Yikji Dol La Roo
> Mitho Makosi Kesikansi
> Sretan Bozic
> Prejeme Vam Vesele Vanoce a stastny Novy Rok
> Glædelig Jul
> Christmas-e- Shoma Mobarak
> Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een Gelukkig Nieuwjaar! or Zalig
> Kerstfeast
> Merry Christmas
> Jutdlime pivdluarit ukiortame pivdluaritlo!
> Gajan Kristnaskon
> Rõõmsaid Jõulupühi
> Melkin Yelidet Beaal
> Gledhilig jol og eydnurikt nyggjar!
> Cristmas-e-shoma mobarak bashad
> Hyvaa joulua
> Zalig Kerstfeest en Gelukkig nieuw jaar
> Joyeux Noel
> Noflike Krystdagen en in protte Lok en Seine yn it Nije
> Jier!
> Bo Nada
> Nollaig chridheil agus Bliadhna mhath ùr!
> Fröhliche Weihnachten
> Kala Christouyenna!
> Jwaye Nowel or to Jesus Edo Bri'cho o Rish D'Shato
> Brichto
> Barka da Kirsimatikuma Barka da Sabuwar Shekara!
> Mele Kalikimaka
> Mo'adim Lesimkha. Chena tova
> [Shub Naya Baras]
> Kellemes Karacsonyi unnepeket
> Gledileg Jol
> Selamat Hari Natal
> Idah Saidan Wa Sanah Jadidah
> Nollaig Shona Dhuit, or Nodlaig mhaith chugnat
> Ojenyunyat Sungwiyadeson honungradon nagwutut. Ojenyunyat
> osrasay.
> Buone Feste Natalizie
> Shinnen omedeto. Kurisumasu Omedeto
> Mithag Crithagsigathmithags
> Sung Tan Chuk Ha
> souksan van Christmas
> Natale hilare et Annum Faustum!
> Prieci'gus Ziemsve'tkus un Laimi'gu Jauno Gadu!
> Wjesole hody a strowe nowe leto
> Priecigus Ziemassvetkus
> Linksmu Kaledu
> Heughliche Winachten un 'n moi Nijaar
> Schèine Chreschtdaag an e gudde Rutsch
> Sreken Bozhik
> IL-Milied It-tajjeb
> Nollick ghennal as blein vie noa
> Meri Kirihimete
> [Shub Naya Varsh]
> Merry Keshmish
> God Jul, or Gledelig Jul
> Pulit nadal e bona annado
> Bon Pasco
> Bikpela hamamas blong dispela Krismas na Nupela yia i go
> long yu
> En frehlicher Grischtdaag un en hallich Nei Yaahr!
> Feliz Navidad y un Venturoso Año Nuevo
> Maligayang Pasko!
> Wesolych Swiat Bozego Narodzenia or Boze Narodzenie
> Feliz Natal
> Christmas Aao Ne-way Kaal Mo Mobarak Sha
> Mata-Ki-Te-Rangi. Te-Pito-O-Te-Henua
> Bellas festas da nadal e bun onn
> Legreivlas fiastas da Nadal e bien niev onn!
> Sarbatori vesele or Craciun fericit
> Pozdrevlyayu s prazdnikom Rozhdestva is Novim Godom
> Buorrit Juovllat
> La Maunia Le Kilisimasi Ma Le Tausaga Fou
> Bonu nadale e prosperu annu nou
> Nollaig chridheil huibh
> Hristos se rodi.
> Subha nath thalak Vewa. Subha Aluth Awrudhak Vewa
> Vesele Vianoce. A stastlivy Novy Rok
> Vesele Bozicne Praznike Srecno Novo Leto or Vesel Bozic in
> srecno Novo leto
> Feliz Navidad
> God Jul and (Och) Ett Gott Nytt År
> Maligayamg Pasko. Masaganang Bagong Taon
> [ Nathar Puthu Varuda Valthukkal]
> Neekiriisimas annim oo iyer seefe feyiyeech!
> Sawadee Pee Mai or souksan wan Christmas
> Noeliniz Ve Yeni Yiliniz Kutlu Olsun
> Srozhdestvom Kristovym or Z RIZDVOM HRYSTOVYM
> [Naya Saal Mubarak Ho]
> Chuc Mung Giang Sinh
> Nadolig Llawen
> E ku odun, e ku iye'dun!
>
>
>
> Russell
>
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Selamat Hari Natal

2009-12-24T04:02:18Z

>From the dawn of time -

Geseënde Kersfees
Een Plesierige Kerfees
Rehus-Beal-Ledeats
Gezur Krislinjden
Milad Majid
Feliz Navidad
Shenoraavor Nor Dari yev Pari Gaghand
Tezze Iliniz Yahsi Olsun
Selamat Hari Natal
Zorionak eta Urte Berri On!
Shuvo Naba Barsha
Vesele Vanoce
Cestit Bozic i Sretna Nova godina
Feliz Natal
Nedeleg laouen na bloavezh mat
Tchestita Koleda; Tchestito Rojdestvo Hristovo
Bon Nadal i un Bon Any Nou!
Feliz Navidad
Gun Tso Sun Tan'Gung Haw Sun
Kung His Hsin Nien bing Chu Shen Tan
Yukpa, Nitak Hollo Chito
Feliz Navidad y Próspero Año Nuevo
Nadelik looan na looan blethen noweth
Pace e salute
Rot Yikji Dol La Roo
Mitho Makosi Kesikansi
Sretan Bozic
Prejeme Vam Vesele Vanoce a stastny Novy Rok
Glædelig Jul
Christmas-e- Shoma Mobarak
Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een Gelukkig Nieuwjaar! or Zalig Kerstfeast
Merry Christmas
Jutdlime pivdluarit ukiortame pivdluaritlo!
Gajan Kristnaskon
Rõõmsaid Jõulupühi
Melkin Yelidet Beaal
Gledhilig jol og eydnurikt nyggjar!
Cristmas-e-shoma mobarak bashad
Hyvaa joulua
Zalig Kerstfeest en Gelukkig nieuw jaar
Joyeux Noel
Noflike Krystdagen en in protte Lok en Seine yn it Nije Jier!
Bo Nada
Nollaig chridheil agus Bliadhna mhath ùr!
Fröhliche Weihnachten
Kala Christouyenna!
Jwaye Nowel or to Jesus Edo Bri'cho o Rish D'Shato Brichto
Barka da Kirsimatikuma Barka da Sabuwar Shekara!
Mele Kalikimaka
Mo'adim Lesimkha. Chena tova
[Shub Naya Baras]
Kellemes Karacsonyi unnepeket
Gledileg Jol
Selamat Hari Natal
Idah Saidan Wa Sanah Jadidah
Nollaig Shona Dhuit, or Nodlaig mhaith chugnat
Ojenyunyat Sungwiyadeson honungradon nagwutut. Ojenyunyat osrasay.
Buone Feste Natalizie
Shinnen omedeto. Kurisumasu Omedeto
Mithag Crithagsigathmithags
Sung Tan Chuk Ha
souksan van Christmas
Natale hilare et Annum Faustum!
Prieci'gus Ziemsve'tkus un Laimi'gu Jauno Gadu!
Wjesole hody a strowe nowe leto
Priecigus Ziemassvetkus
Linksmu Kaledu
Heughliche Winachten un 'n moi Nijaar
Schèine Chreschtdaag an e gudde Rutsch
Sreken Bozhik
IL-Milied It-tajjeb
Nollick ghennal as blein vie noa
Meri Kirihimete
[Shub Naya Varsh]
Merry Keshmish
God Jul, or Gledelig Jul
Pulit nadal e bona annado
Bon Pasco
Bikpela hamamas blong dispela Krismas na Nupela yia i go long yu
En frehlicher Grischtdaag un en hallich Nei Yaahr!
Feliz Navidad y un Venturoso Año Nuevo
Maligayang Pasko!
Wesolych Swiat Bozego Narodzenia or Boze Narodzenie
Feliz Natal
Christmas Aao Ne-way Kaal Mo Mobarak Sha
Mata-Ki-Te-Rangi. Te-Pito-O-Te-Henua
Bellas festas da nadal e bun onn
Legreivlas fiastas da Nadal e bien niev onn!
Sarbatori vesele or Craciun fericit
Pozdrevlyayu s prazdnikom Rozhdestva is Novim Godom
Buorrit Juovllat
La Maunia Le Kilisimasi Ma Le Tausaga Fou
Bonu nadale e prosperu annu nou
Nollaig chridheil huibh
Hristos se rodi.
Subha nath thalak Vewa. Subha Aluth Awrudhak Vewa
Vesele Vianoce. A stastlivy Novy Rok
Vesele Bozicne Praznike Srecno Novo Leto or Vesel Bozic in srecno Novo leto
Feliz Navidad
God Jul and (Och) Ett Gott Nytt År
Maligayamg Pasko. Masaganang Bagong Taon
[ Nathar Puthu Varuda Valthukkal]
Neekiriisimas annim oo iyer seefe feyiyeech!
Sawadee Pee Mai or souksan wan Christmas
Noeliniz Ve Yeni Yiliniz Kutlu Olsun
Srozhdestvom Kristovym or Z RIZDVOM HRYSTOVYM
[Naya Saal Mubarak Ho]
Chuc Mung Giang Sinh
Nadolig Llawen
E ku odun, e ku iye'dun!

Russell

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-23T11:27:58Z

Further to the stencil debate.

Elektor have just sent me a sales blurb on a a Stencil Machine
(basically a frame with a squeegee applicator platform for GBP 395.00
er US$645

<https://www.elektor.com/projects/elektor-smt-tools.1191189.lynkx>

Colin
--
cdb, colin@... on 12/24/2009

Web presence: www.btech-online.co.uk

Hosted by: www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359

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Re: (Civil) Engineer's Christmas Card

2009-12-23T09:39:16Z

Yoiks very good sent it to my friends
Gus

> On Dec 23, 2009, at 6:58 AM, M.L. wrote:
>
> http://nnytech.net/~martin/Engineers_Christmas_Card.pdf
>
> --
> Martin K.
> --
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Re: Google Wave

2009-12-23T07:13:01Z

I wouldn't mind having a download please. Thanks. Ed

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Giant Panda <panda@...>wrote:

> I have a lot of invites too, If anybody wants one.
>
> Wave is great, but it's not so funny as I got it before.
> I don't think Wave will replace the Gmail. :)
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:09 PM, solarwind <x.solarwind.x@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I had access to google wave for some time now, but only recently have
> > I had a chance to experiment with it (exams are ending).
> >
> > Has anyone used it yet? What are your thoughts on it? If anyone
> > (really) wants an invite, I can invite you (but I have a limited
> > number of invites) so don't ask unless you're serious about it.
> > --
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(Civil) Engineer's Christmas Card

2009-12-23T05:58:19Z

http://nnytech.net/~martin/Engineers_Christmas_Card.pdf

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Re: Google Wave

2009-12-23T04:36:50Z

I have a lot of invites too, If anybody wants one.

Wave is great, but it's not so funny as I got it before.
I don't think Wave will replace the Gmail. :)

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:09 PM, solarwind <x.solarwind.x@...> wrote:

>
> I had access to google wave for some time now, but only recently have
> I had a chance to experiment with it (exams are ending).
>
> Has anyone used it yet? What are your thoughts on it? If anyone
> (really) wants an invite, I can invite you (but I have a limited
> number of invites) so don't ask unless you're serious about it.
> --
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Re: Traffic experiences

2009-12-23T01:18:39Z

> I did the same thing Russell did, except it was in Guangzhou during
> the 1980s.
> That is .... cross a one-way street with thousands of cars, scooters ,
> bikes , etc. parting around us.

I don't remember all the horn honking that Russell tells of, when we were in
China, but that was a dozen years ago now ...

But when travelling in Italy, someone I knew reckoned that if someone honked
angrily at you, the best thing to do was stop and wave the other person on.
Apparently Italian folk cannot have someone else being more polite than
them, so they stop and wave you on. Haven't been to Italy to try this out
yet.

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T23:08:38Z

Quoting Jesse Lackey <jsl-ml@...>:

> A few things regarding all this...
>
> I have modified mountsmd.ulp for generation of pick&place data (i.e.
> ...
> If anyone wants it, just ask. (to jesse AT celestialaudio DOT com).

I wouldn't mind taking a peek at it. I'm using the one that Screaming
Circuits put up on Cadsoft's download area.

> As mentioned the solder paste openings need to be segmented for some
> devices, this is particularly true of larger QFN, else they may "float"
> on too much solder and their "pin" pads not touch the board. ...
> ...

Hmmm... wasn't familiar with this issue, but good to know. I'll investigate.

> I really want to get pick&place running ...
> ...
> A year and a half ago I bought one of these:
> http://www.bidservice.com/browses/DHTML_PHOTOS.ASP?ProductID=13148&Mfg=MRSI&Mdl=501&InvNum=30063
> off of ebay. Needs total reprogramming for the modern era. A big
> project, but if the specs are to be believed I should be able to do all
> the way down to 0201.

Hmmm... never seen that one. What is currently wrong with it?

I almost bought a used Zevatech for $500 a few weeks ago, thinking
that I could have a good base gantry system and if the electronics
were fried, I'd put in my own motor controllers and write my own
software. But a complete DIY system would get me exactly what I want
-- a compact/benchtop system that can do 0402's (though I'm only down
to 0603's currently). I've got a few unique ideas that I think would
be great to lower costs and make the whole process more hands-off if I
could pull them off.

> Anyone who is or will get serious about DIY P&P please let me know, I'd
> like to be part of a forum/discussion/development of basic motion
> control and image recognition software to do this.

I'll let you know if I do go the DIY route. Software seems relatively
easy, except for the image processing/recognition part. I can go read
up on it, but it seems so involved and I'm not sure I have the time
for it currently.

Cheers,
-Neil.

>
> Cheers...!
> J
>

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T22:09:45Z

A few things regarding all this...

I have modified mountsmd.ulp for generation of pick&place data (i.e.
centroid or "XYRS") so that it outputs mils with comma delimiting, which
a CM requested a few years ago when I was doing some initial designs.
If anyone wants it, just ask. (to jesse AT celestialaudio DOT com).

As mentioned the solder paste openings need to be segmented for some
devices, this is particularly true of larger QFN, else they may "float"
on too much solder and their "pin" pads not touch the board. TI
datasheets talk about this, as I recall, or google for info. I made
modified parts in Eagle to achieve this, and so far, no problems. It
can also be a problem if you need vias in the QFN pad. If the via is in
an area that gets solder paste, the paste can just flow down the hole
during reflow.

I really want to get pick&place running ... for the same reason, I often
need 25-100 of something, and while I have my usual shop relatively
nearby (Meritronics) sometimes I just want to do it FAST, there is no
practical (i.e. sane cost) way to get less than a 2-week turn, and it is
usually 3 weeks.
A year and a half ago I bought one of these:
http://www.bidservice.com/browses/DHTML_PHOTOS.ASP?ProductID=13148&Mfg=MRSI&Mdl=501&InvNum=30063
off of ebay. Needs total reprogramming for the modern era. A big
project, but if the specs are to be believed I should be able to do all
the way down to 0201.

Anyone who is or will get serious about DIY P&P please let me know, I'd
like to be part of a forum/discussion/development of basic motion
control and image recognition software to do this.

Cheers...!
J

PICdude wrote:

> Quoting Vitaliy <piclist@...>:
>
>> PICdude wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, I'm working on doing my own auto/semi-auto assembly, so more
>>> interested in the details of these processes currently.
>> Sounds cool. What is the motivation behind this project?
>>
>
> Necessity. We do 25-100 of many products at a time, and even for some
> products that we do thousands of per year, it's better to run smaller
> batches (250-500) so we don't have to float the cost of all those
> components at once. Our products are very similar components-wise
> (layout, config, and firmware very) so setup time (reel changes etc)
> would be minimal. Conservative calcs show that in-house will not cost
> much more. Quality and appearance will be better too. Add that I
> haven't been able to find a local SMD solderer, so I'm doing most of
> the SMD stuff lately, and getting backaches from being hunched over a
> desk for hours on end. CEM's have long lead times just to get a
> quote, and I expect no more backaches from . So it's pretty much a
> no-brainer.
>
> I got a decent conveyor oven already, but just need to find the right
> PnP machine at a price I can afford. In the meanwhile, I am seriously
> considering building my own PnP. Time is an issue, but I do have some
> of the sharper kids from my robotics club ready and eager to help with
> this though.
>
> Cheers,
> -Neil.
>
>
>
>> High volume assemblies are best outsourced to China. One-off protos are not
>> worth the setup time. However, it would be nice to have a way to build
>> 10-100 boards without paying an arm and a leg.
>>
>> Vitaliy
>>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T19:44:11Z

Quoting Giles Honeycutt <giles-pl@...>:

> Neil,
> I got my first stencil from http://www.stencilsunlimited.com/
> I called and talked the the guy who runs it, he helped me out a lot.
> ...

I spoke with a lady there a few days ago, but the best answer I got
was to explain it in comments. That leaves a lot of room for
problems. Quickstencil was similar.

> Some of the questions I left to him was, how thick, and the over/under.
> Also, he fixed a couple of things I did not know to do, like a big pad
> for a regulator, he sectioned into 4 pads as apposed to one large pad
> that could have problems with the squeegee.

Similar questions to mine. I found another stencil source today that
does kapton stencils for $25 (ohararp.com), and I figured I've give it
a shot, so I can tinker with vacuum placement and reflow profiles for
now. The guy there (Ryan) mentioned the same thing about splitting up
larger pads to help squeegeeing. He said that for my major question,
I should put it in on the cream layer (as Wouter suggested), and let
him know that those should be left exactly that size.

Cheers,
-Neil.

> Best regards,
> Giles Honeycutt
>

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T19:06:36Z

Quoting Vitaliy <piclist@...>:

> PICdude wrote:
>
>> FWIW, I'm working on doing my own auto/semi-auto assembly, so more
>> interested in the details of these processes currently.
>
> Sounds cool. What is the motivation behind this project?
>

Necessity. We do 25-100 of many products at a time, and even for some
products that we do thousands of per year, it's better to run smaller
batches (250-500) so we don't have to float the cost of all those
components at once. Our products are very similar components-wise
(layout, config, and firmware very) so setup time (reel changes etc)
would be minimal. Conservative calcs show that in-house will not cost
much more. Quality and appearance will be better too. Add that I
haven't been able to find a local SMD solderer, so I'm doing most of
the SMD stuff lately, and getting backaches from being hunched over a
desk for hours on end. CEM's have long lead times just to get a
quote, and I expect no more backaches from . So it's pretty much a
no-brainer.

I got a decent conveyor oven already, but just need to find the right
PnP machine at a price I can afford. In the meanwhile, I am seriously
considering building my own PnP. Time is an issue, but I do have some
of the sharper kids from my robotics club ready and eager to help with
this though.

Cheers,
-Neil.

> High volume assemblies are best outsourced to China. One-off protos are not
> worth the setup time. However, it would be nice to have a way to build
> 10-100 boards without paying an arm and a leg.
>
> Vitaliy
>

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T17:11:48Z

On Dec 22, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Vitaliy wrote:

> We started using the ULP for exporting .mnt files

Say all you want about EAGLE, but I *REALLY* like having the user
programming language there to "fix" things that might otherwise be
lacking...

BillW

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T16:56:33Z

PICdude wrote:

>> PICdude wrote:
>>> Ah, you mean the centroid data file... correct?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> But, do you mean you make your CEM go through THIS?! <:-O
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRAnZ-tTzTA
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>
> I used to have the CEMs create that, until I learned what a Centroid
> file was. Once there was no charge, and later it was $100 IIRC. But
> I can now generate centroid from Eagle with a ulp I found.

We started using the ULP for exporting .mnt files as soon as we switched
from PTH to SMT.

> FWIW, I'm working on doing my own auto/semi-auto assembly, so more
> interested in the details of these processes currently.

Sounds cool. What is the motivation behind this project?

High volume assemblies are best outsourced to China. One-off protos are not
worth the setup time. However, it would be nice to have a way to build
10-100 boards without paying an arm and a leg.

Sparkfun have a "real" ($$$) pick and place, and at one point we were even
considering buying one. A silly idea, considering our in-house production
volumes.

Vitaliy

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T15:53:42Z

Quoting Vitaliy <piclist@...>:

> PICdude wrote:
>> Ah, you mean the centroid data file... correct?
>
> Yes.
>
> But, do you mean you make your CEM go through THIS?! <:-O
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRAnZ-tTzTA
>
> ;-)
>

I used to have the CEMs create that, until I learned what a Centroid
file was. Once there was no charge, and later it was $100 IIRC. But
I can now generate centroid from Eagle with a ulp I found.

FWIW, I'm working on doing my own auto/semi-auto assembly, so more
interested in the details of these processes currently.

Cheers,
-Neil.

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T14:28:49Z

PICdude wrote:
>>> Errr... ahhh... mount file???
>>
>> You know, for the pick-n-place machine?
>>
>> Vitaliy
>> --
>
>
> Ah, you mean the centroid data file... correct?

Yes.

But, do you mean you make your CEM go through THIS?! <:-O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRAnZ-tTzTA

;-)

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T12:33:28Z

Quoting cdb <colin@...>:

>
>
> :: some of those
> :: pads get components right away, and some will get components
> :: manually
> :: later (depending on configuration), so it would save us having to
> :: wick
> :: off the solder later.
>
> The solder on an unused pad would act as a sort of protection to the
> copper and basically you'd have a ready tinned pad for a component if
> you did fit one.
>
> Why would you want to wick the solder off?
> Colin
> --

When I solder with tweezers and iron, I only put solder on one pad,
and use that to tack down one pin to hold the component in place. The
other pads need to be flat (w/o solder) at that point, and those will
get solder later. Otherwise, the component won't sit flat.

Cheers,
-Neil.

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T12:30:46Z

Quoting Vitaliy <piclist@...>:

> PICdude wrote:
>> Errr... ahhh... mount file???
>
> You know, for the pick-n-place machine?
>
> Vitaliy
> --

Ah, you mean the centroid data file... correct?
-Neil.

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T12:10:10Z

PICdude wrote:
> Errr... ahhh... mount file???

You know, for the pick-n-place machine?

Vitaliy
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Traffic experiences

2009-12-22T12:06:56Z

[OT]:: Traffic Experiences. :: <-- Re: [TECH] Led light too "cold"

> I did the same thing Russell did, except it was in Guangzhou during
> the 1980s.
> That is .... cross a one-way street with thousands of cars, scooters ,
> bikes , etc. parting around us.

Studied disregard is an art form in Chinese driving.
It varies with geography.
But, looking at someone shows you know they are there and begins a
dominance game. Not looking at them at all (apparently) means you
aren't taking any notice of them and will thus proceed as if they
don't exist. When everyone does it it's impressive and, surprisingly
to 'western' brains, seems to work.

I have photos of people on a pedestrian crossing at an intersection
with cars either side which are in both cases travelling on the
"wrong" side of the road past each other and around the pedestrians.
This was by no means uncommon but I didn't get many photos of it
happening. Having vehicles travel for various distances against
traffic flow was common - especially when entering busy traffic from a
hotel etc. Small vehicles (motorcycles, bicycles, 3 wheeled
miscellanea) might travel for indefinite distances near the curb and
against the main flow.

I have seen cars edging onto crossings with numerous people on them,
with the driver vigorously blowing their horn to chase the miscreants
away, even though the road beyond the crossing is blocked enough that
they will not be able to go far at all once they get over the
crossing. (One such incident, which I have on video, was outside the
Shanghai tower, so its not just a small town thing).

I rode around Beijing for 2 days on a bicycle (one handed mostly,
camera in right hand, photos on the fly). You get a very good feel for
the traffic 'laws' very quickly that way :-) - or else.

The use of the horn varies very considerably with area. In eg Qingdao
it announces continually that you are death incarnate and are going to
take every piece of road available and unavailable. In Beijing it was
usually more a loud but almost polite warning that death loomed if you
chose to turn in an unwise direction and that you really really
shouldn't, In Shanghai I can't remember an overall character but sat
on a bus as a (lady) bus driver using force of will and sheer
continual brain shattering acoustic power drove, over several minutes,
in great fury, a small streetful of cars backwards some tens of metres
so that the bus could make it's presumably rightful way up a street
against their prior flow. In Guilin our driver used the horn
continually but in short polite almost apologetic bursts to warn, very
reasonably, every pedestrian cyclist, trishaw driver, dog, goat,
chicken, and water buffalo that we were about to enter their environs
and that they should not stray from their path while we passed. None
did. In Qingdao I was involved, as a passenger, in one minor vehicle
accident where I think the other driver ran a very red light, but who
can be sure, and people argued loudly for many minutes over who was in
the right.

All that said, the Chinese traffic system is far more efficient at
handling cars than eg here in New Zealand, or even than in Hong Kong.
I'd estimate that they can almost double road throughput compared to
ours. And the accident rate seems reasonable considering the sheer
volume.

Interestingly, just across the border in Hong Kong (one country, two
systems, they tell you) the traffic, road rules and behaviour are
almost indistinguishable from in NZ. Here, unlike in China proper, you
drive (as in the UK and Singapore and Australia and NZ)(the sun never
sets on the British Empire) on the left, and very largely can expect a
pedestrian crossing or red or green traffic light, stop sign, yellow
lines, or no parking sign to function as the formal rules suggest, do
not meet a stream of traffic driving for variable distances against
the flow on the "other side" of the road, hear horns only seldom, and
see almost zero vehicles with 3 wheels (powered or pedal). Utterly
unlike China proper and even less than NZ HK has very few bicycles and
even has surprisingly few motorcycles. Macau, an hour by Ferry down
the bay, and soon enough to be 40 minutes away by 50 kilometre ocean
bridge (!), once proudly Portugese still redolent with almost as many
signs in that language as HK has in English, and also a two systems
one country enclave, has a traffic system somewhere between HK's and
the mainland's.

Russell

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T11:52:58Z

Errr... ahhh... mount file???

Quoting Vitaliy <piclist@...>:

> PICdude wrote:
>> Ah yes, I use Eagle too. I did see the tCream and bCream layers in
>> there, but so far the stencil companies have asked for only the gerber
>> files, and AFAIK the Cream layers are not part of the Gerber standard
>> file set... are they?
>
> For board assembly, they definitely are, along with the mount file.
>
> Vitaliy
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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T11:51:24Z

:: some of those
:: pads get components right away, and some will get components
:: manually
:: later (depending on configuration), so it would save us having to
:: wick
:: off the solder later.

The solder on an unused pad would act as a sort of protection to the
copper and basically you'd have a ready tinned pad for a component if
you did fit one.

Why would you want to wick the solder off?
Colin
--
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Web presence: www.btech-online.co.uk

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T11:40:08Z

Quoting Mike Harrison <mike@...>:

> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:47:20 -0800, you wrote:
>

>> (4) Is there a simple way to temporarily block holes on a stencil (for
>> various configurations etc of a PCB)?
>
> Why would you need to do this ? Doesn't matter if there is paste on
> unused pads.

Cause I'm trying to be super-mega-uber efficient ... some of those
pads get components right away, and some will get components manually
later (depending on configuration), so it would save us having to wick
off the solder later. Not a biggie though.

Cheers,
-Neil.

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T11:26:58Z

PICdude wrote:
> Ah yes, I use Eagle too. I did see the tCream and bCream layers in
> there, but so far the stencil companies have asked for only the gerber
> files, and AFAIK the Cream layers are not part of the Gerber standard
> file set... are they?

AFAIK the standard gerber jobs do not create such files, but you can
simply add one to your job.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T11:26:38Z

PICdude wrote:
> Ah yes, I use Eagle too. I did see the tCream and bCream layers in
> there, but so far the stencil companies have asked for only the gerber
> files, and AFAIK the Cream layers are not part of the Gerber standard
> file set... are they?

For board assembly, they definitely are, along with the mount file.

Vitaliy
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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T11:15:03Z

Neil,
I got my first stencil from http://www.stencilsunlimited.com/
I called and talked the the guy who runs it, he helped me out a lot.
You could ask him all your questions, and he could help you out a lot.
I think a stencil for prototypes is about $100.00 That includes a steel
squeegee and some FR4 scrap for making a jig. Add a little box tape for
a hinge, and I was done.

Some of the questions I left to him was, how thick, and the over/under.
Also, he fixed a couple of things I did not know to do, like a big pad
for a regulator, he sectioned into 4 pads as apposed to one large pad
that could have problems with the squeegee.

Best regards,
Giles Honeycutt

PICdude wrote:

> Ah yes, I use Eagle too. I did see the tCream and bCream layers in
> there, but so far the stencil companies have asked for only the gerber
> files, and AFAIK the Cream layers are not part of the Gerber standard
> file set... are they? But yes, these layers seem so much more logical
> to use for creating a stencil.
>
> I will use the "standard" squeegee method to apply the paste. The
> fours holes are far in the corners, so they should be out of the
> squeegee's way.
>
> Cheers,
> -Neil.
>
>
>
> Quoting Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@...>:
>
>
>>> I'm about to order my first stencil directly (rather than thru CEM),
>>> but have a few Q's, which I've not been able to get properly answered
>>> from a couple stencil companies.
>>>
>> You did not mention which PCB software you use :(
>>
>> Solder paste mask is a separate gerber file.
>>
>> In Eagle (the PCB software I known) solder paste is a separate layer.
>> SMD components have the appropriate shapes in this layer, but you can
>> draw in this layer if you want.
>>
>> I dunno how you apply your paste, but for my method anything rising
>> through the stencil would be a no-no.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Wouter van Ooijen
>>
>> -- -------------------------------------------
>> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
>> consultancy, development, PICmicro products
>> docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu
>>
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>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T10:57:51Z

Ah yes, I use Eagle too. I did see the tCream and bCream layers in
there, but so far the stencil companies have asked for only the gerber
files, and AFAIK the Cream layers are not part of the Gerber standard
file set... are they? But yes, these layers seem so much more logical
to use for creating a stencil.

I will use the "standard" squeegee method to apply the paste. The
fours holes are far in the corners, so they should be out of the
squeegee's way.

Cheers,
-Neil.

Quoting Wouter van Ooijen <wouter@...>:

>> I'm about to order my first stencil directly (rather than thru CEM),
>> but have a few Q's, which I've not been able to get properly answered
>> from a couple stencil companies.
>
> You did not mention which PCB software you use :(
>
> Solder paste mask is a separate gerber file.
>
> In Eagle (the PCB software I known) solder paste is a separate layer.
> SMD components have the appropriate shapes in this layer, but you can
> draw in this layer if you want.
>
> I dunno how you apply your paste, but for my method anything rising
> through the stencil would be a no-no.
>
> --
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu
>
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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T10:50:56Z

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:47:20 -0800, you wrote:

>Happy Holidays Ya'll,
>
>I'm about to order my first stencil directly (rather than thru CEM),
>but have a few Q's, which I've not been able to get properly answered
>from a couple stencil companies.
>
>(1) Since a copper layer specifies pads and traces on that layer, how
>do they determine what is a pad, vs. what is a trace? Is there
>something in the specification of the gerber that tells them that
>(I've found some basic gerber-format explanations so far, but nothing
>yet that tells me how a trace is specified different from a pad)? Or
>is it that pads are copper without soldermask? Or???

You output a paste -specific gerber layer from your PCB sofwtare, as it knows which pads are for SMD
parts

>(2) Are the stencil holes always the exact size as the pads, or is
>there some border that's left, making the stencil holes a bit smaller?

Typically a bit smaller

>(3) I need to add four 0.125" holes on the stencil to match holes on
>my PCB. I'll use these to easily align the stencil, by using four
>0.125" dowels. How can I best specify this on the PCB. If I create a
>library part that is a 0.125" circle and add these to the appropriate
>locations on the PCB, will I get these as 0.125" holes on the PCB, or
>will they be a bit smaller, or...?

Depends how the pad stack is defined for the hole - should be doable though.

>(4) Is there a simple way to temporarily block holes on a stencil (for
>various configurations etc of a PCB)?

Why would you need to do this ? Doesn't matter if there is paste on unused pads.

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Re: Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T10:43:44Z

> I'm about to order my first stencil directly (rather than thru CEM),
> but have a few Q's, which I've not been able to get properly answered
> from a couple stencil companies.

You did not mention which PCB software you use :(

Solder paste mask is a separate gerber file.

In Eagle (the PCB software I known) solder paste is a separate layer.
SMD components have the appropriate shapes in this layer, but you can
draw in this layer if you want.

I dunno how you apply your paste, but for my method anything rising
through the stencil would be a no-no.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu

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Stencil Q's

2009-12-22T09:47:20Z

Happy Holidays Ya'll,

I'm about to order my first stencil directly (rather than thru CEM),
but have a few Q's, which I've not been able to get properly answered
from a couple stencil companies.

(1) Since a copper layer specifies pads and traces on that layer, how
do they determine what is a pad, vs. what is a trace? Is there
something in the specification of the gerber that tells them that
(I've found some basic gerber-format explanations so far, but nothing
yet that tells me how a trace is specified different from a pad)? Or
is it that pads are copper without soldermask? Or???

(2) Are the stencil holes always the exact size as the pads, or is
there some border that's left, making the stencil holes a bit smaller?

(3) I need to add four 0.125" holes on the stencil to match holes on
my PCB. I'll use these to easily align the stencil, by using four
0.125" dowels. How can I best specify this on the PCB. If I create a
library part that is a 0.125" circle and add these to the appropriate
locations on the PCB, will I get these as 0.125" holes on the PCB, or
will they be a bit smaller, or...?

(4) Is there a simple way to temporarily block holes on a stencil (for
various configurations etc of a PCB)?

Cheers,
-Neil.

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Re: Extrasolar planets

2009-12-21T14:16:34Z

Oops...

I did'nt realize that the detection of such objects was within the reach
of "amateur" equipment, but apparently so -

http://enersec.org/id5.html

My brother is a member of the same astronomy club which sponsors these
fellows, and happened to mention it...
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Extrasolar planets

2009-12-21T14:06:04Z

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