POLL: Linux preferences from FreeBSD users

[Daniel Underwood]

QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
prefer? and why?

I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux
distributions from FreeBSD fans.
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[Jon Radel]

Daniel Underwood wrote:

> I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux
> distributions from FreeBSD fans.

Why?

--

--Jon Radel
jon@...

[Chris Halbersma]

> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> prefer? and why?

None, I'm a BSD kindof guy :).  Although Damn Small Linux and Tiny Core  
are nice ideas.

> I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux
> distributions from FreeBSD fans.

Indeed why?



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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[PuffyBSD]

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Daniel Underwood<djuatdelta@...> wrote:
> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> prefer? and why?
>
> I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux
> distributions from FreeBSD fans.

of all the Linux distros I have tried, the least confusing is Gentoo
Gentoo portage is "kinda" like FreeBSD ports

they also have another project http://www.sabayonlinux.org/
that is Gentoo based, and I am hoping that one day

PC-BSD will grow into what Sabayon now is, but FreeBSD based.


in my Opinion, package management is the Big question that all os's
have to deal with.
things like debian's aptget do not handle upgrades very well.

PC-BSD has a Great start on this with "PBI's"


Sam Fourman Jr.
Fourma Networks
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[Glen Barber-2]

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Daniel Underwood<djuatdelta@...> wrote:
> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> prefer? and why?
>
> I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux
> distributions from FreeBSD fans.

Although I am hesitant to contribute to what will most certainly turn
into a flamewar, I have used Fedora, *buntu, and OpenSuse.  Of those 3
distributions, *buntu tends to install the least nonsense -- OpenSuse
the most.

When I do need linux for something, I try to use some Ubuntu variant
as I can have better control over what is installed.

Of course, when I can control it, I install FreeBSD, as I have greater
control over everything.


--
Glen Barber
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[Daniel Underwood]

> of all the Linux distros I have tried, the least confusing is Gentoo
> Gentoo portage is "kinda" like FreeBSD ports

Yes, I'd like to give Gentoo a try.
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[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 01 Jul 2009 at 16:12:40 PDT Christopher Ryan Halbersma wrote:
>>QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
>>prefer? and why?
>
>None, I'm a BSD kindof guy

Same here, but my other machine is a Mac (still BSD under the hood).
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[Giorgos Keramidas]

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400, Daniel Underwood <djuatdelta@...> wrote:
> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> prefer? and why?
>
> I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux
> distributions from FreeBSD fans.

Debian is the one I can almost tolerate.

There's a special place in hell for the people who write the source of
code of horrible, terrifying, ugly things like iptables and the default
packaging of GNU Emacs in Debian, but it's the one that I can tune a bit
to match my preferences :-)

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[Martin McCormick]

Daniel Underwood writes:
> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> prefer? and why?

        I like Debian and ubuntu which is a Debian distribution
but that is not to say that other distributions are poorly done.
Part of my preference is nothing more than that is what I
started out with for a Linux distribution back around 2001 so I
am accustomed to it.

        I like the Debian installation CD because as a computer
user who is blind, I use a serial installation console and both
the Debian5 CD and ubuntu Server can be easily started in serial
mode.

        I also do not like any distribution that uses a
GUI-based installation method unless there is a text-based
method which is still available and easy to start.

        Debian was also one of the first few distributions to be
more conservative about security settings. I work for a
university and let's say that it is a good place to find out how
weak one's settings are. Anybody who finds a hole will not
necessarily tell you, but you will unfortunately find out in due
time when the complaints start rolling in from all over the
world.

        All the major distributions now are much better about
security so this is not as much of a factor as it used to be. As
with many things, your mileage will be determined by what you
need to do and how well your particular flavor of Linux does it.

        All Linux versions use the same kernel but some may
modify portions of it for special purposes.

        The distribution known as grml, for instance, has a set
of modules in the kernel to support software speech synthesis. I
would love to put it on a certain laptop I have but the laptop
has other ideas. grml is a flavor of Debian and, on my laptop,
the live CD is dead. Ubuntu's live CD also does software speech
synthesis for blind computer users, along with an Orca desktop,
but it also needs a pretty hefty system just to boot the live
CD. That laptop of mine is a 1-GHZ processor and 256 megs of RAM
and it still isn't enough. That live CD is also a dead one on
that computer. One thing, though, the ubuntu live CD can seem to
find the sound card as I hear the bongo drums in the ubuntu
bootup, but then the drums fall silent and the screen goes
psychedelic as RAM is exhausted and the system looses sanity.
That particular psychedelic trip can only be ended by a forced
power-down.

        The only distribution that does work there is something
called "Oralux" whose development stopped around 4 years ago. It
has software synthesis and it does talk all right, but the sound
card can not record sound and it really is too old to be safe or
very useful any more.

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK
Systems Engineer
OSU Information Technology Department Telecommunications Services Group
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[Polytropon]

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400, Daniel Underwood <djuatdelta@...> wrote:
> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> prefer? and why?

Actually, I'm not a Linux user. But Linux was my first step into
using UNIX on a x86 PC. More than 10 years ago, I started with
Slackware Linux, and with the rise of FreeBSD 4.0, I did abandon
it.

"Modern" Linux distributions don't appeal very much to me, because
they are messy: Missing manpages, partially ununderstandable file
system hierarchy layout, untidy source code. Ah yes, and I need a
very modern PC to run them. No thanks, not my party. That's why I
can't tell about them, because I've not used them.

The only thing that I observed when playing around with SuSE live
CDs was that the Gnome version of their Linux had a much better
internationalisation than the KDE version. Set language to "German",
and Gnome gives german text and messages most of the time, nearly
everywhere. KDE cannot do that. It even gives english error messages.
This is what scares Germans who want to try Linux. They cannot
stand such complicated computer thingies. :-)



> I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux
> distributions from FreeBSD fans.

Why?

And an addition: I'm not a "FreeBSD fan", I'm a FreeBSD user. I
am using it because it serves my needs best, and I am nearly
exclusively using it (along with Solaris).



--
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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[Jonathan McKeown-5]

On Thursday 02 July 2009 07:21:25 Polytropon wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400, Daniel Underwood <djuatdelta@...>
wrote:
> > QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> > prefer? and why?
>
> Actually, I'm not a Linux user. But Linux was my first step into
> using UNIX on a x86 PC. More than 10 years ago, I started with
> Slackware Linux, and with the rise of FreeBSD 4.0, I did abandon
> it.

I was wondering if there were any other Slackers out there!

I've still got my first Linux distribution, and possibly my first FreeBSD
release too: I bought the Walnut Creek 4-CD box of Slackware 3.6 in a little
shop in the West End of London, and a couple of years later, the boxed set of
FreeBSD 4.5 from either the Linux Emporium or CheapBytes (can't remember
which).

Jonathan
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[Artifex Maximus]

Hello!

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Daniel Underwood <djuatdelta@...>
 wrote:

> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> prefer? and why?


I used to like Slackware but moved to Ubuntu two or three years before. I
liked Slackware simplicity but its package system was too simple and then I
moved to FreeBSD. Some years before I had found Ubuntu and stayed there for
Linux boxes. Some people prefer Debian over Ubuntu but I dislike Debian
approach on packages (namely patch the older version as long as you can
instead of switch to a newer one).

Bye,
a
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[Daniel Underwood]

>> I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux
>> distributions from FreeBSD fans.
>
> Why?

Good question.  Because of the perspective many FreeBSD fans (people
who like and use FreeBSD) have toward *NIX OS's.  You said it well:

> "Modern" Linux distributions don't appeal very much to me, because
> they are messy: Missing manpages, partially ununderstandable file
> system hierarchy layout, untidy source code.

These are things, I'm guessing, that the casual Linux user may not
appreciate.  Someone who has a great deal of experience with both
FreeBSD and various Linux distributions, however, probably would
appreciate these things.  If I were to poll a sample of individuals
who only have experience with, say, Windows and Linux, then the
responses would likely represent opinions formed upon a wholly
different set of criteria.
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[modulok-2]

> On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400, Daniel Underwood <djuatdelta@...>
> wrote:
>> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
>> prefer? and why?
>
> "Modern" Linux distributions don't appeal very much to me, because
> they are messy: Missing manpages...

That and Linux seems to only ever get the abridged version of manual
pages. When you compare manual pages for an equivalent commands
between FreeBSD and most Linux flavors, it really shows. I noticed
this when I went from Debian to FreeBSD. "Finally! Real
documentation!"

-Modulok-
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[Giorgos Keramidas]

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:07:08 +0200, Jonathan McKeown <j.mckeown@...> wrote:
> I was wondering if there were any other Slackers out there!

Of course we are still `out there'.

I started using a UNIX-like clone on my 386 SX with Slackware, by
fetching the floppy disk images.  I've abandoned Linux for serious work
for years now, but I still have my Infomagic CD-ROMs :)

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[Bill Campbell-4]

On Thu, Jul 02, 2009, Artifex Maximus wrote:

>Hello!
>
>On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Daniel Underwood <djuatdelta@...>
> wrote:
>
>> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
>> prefer? and why?
>
>I used to like Slackware but moved to Ubuntu two or three years before. I
>liked Slackware simplicity but its package system was too simple and then I
>moved to FreeBSD. Some years before I had found Ubuntu and stayed there for
>Linux boxes. Some people prefer Debian over Ubuntu but I dislike Debian
>approach on packages (namely patch the older version as long as you can
>instead of switch to a newer one).

We currently use CentOS for servers and Macs for desktops.  Over
the years we have gone from Caldera->SuSE->CentOS, and I am most
comfortable in an RPM environment having used it since 1995 or so.

All our server software is built under the OpenPKG portable
packaging system whether the system is FreeBSD, Linux, OS X,
OpenSolaris, or even SCO OpenServer 5.0.6.

Bill
--
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URL: http://www.celestial.com/  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice:          [phone]  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
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[prad-2]

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:58:15 -0400
Daniel Underwood <djuatdelta@...> wrote:

> Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> prefer? and why?
>
we use archlinux (though we've enjoyed debian and the ubuntus).
arch is very clean and fast - rather bsd like in fact.
it is very well supported by the community - even before you use it:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_vs_Others

--
In friendship,
prad

                                      ... with you on your journey
Towards Freedom
http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website)
Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's


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[Polytropon]

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:28:01 -0600, Modulok <modulok@...> wrote:
> That and Linux seems to only ever get the abridged version of manual
> pages. When you compare manual pages for an equivalent commands
> between FreeBSD and most Linux flavors, it really shows. I noticed
> this when I went from Debian to FreeBSD. "Finally! Real
> documentation!"

There ware two things that I found to be solved better in FreeBSD than
in various Linusi:

1. Amount of manual pages: FreeBSD does not only document commands,
it documents configuration files, kerlen interfaces, library functions
and maintenance procedures. The tradition of manual pages furthermore
is carried by third party software (ports), e. g. "man opera" - you
would not guess that it existed. In the opposite, try to find a
manpage of some KDE program (as if anyone would read manpages for
KDE things).

2. Quality of documentation: The manpages are excellently written.
No "look at our Wiki" or "this page intentionally left free" there.
furthermore, the OS's source is very tidy, uses good names for
functions, variables and datatypes, and has lots of useful comments.

As a developer, documentation is a MUST HAVE for me. Having all
the documentation avaliable "off line" right after installation
is very good.

Sadly, Linux didn't (doesn't?) offer this.

In functionality - driver availability, to call it by name - Linux
may be much better than FreeBSD. It may even support crap devices
as it is done by proprietary "Windows" drivers. But because I (1)
do not own such hardware and (2) usually don't use "modern"
computers, I do not depend on them. That's the great thing when you
live in the stone age - you don't have to care for any "modern"
stuff. :-)

FreeBSD, in opposite to most Linusi, enables me to run my old
hardware FASTER (!) with each release. Sadly, this gain of speed
is eaten up by other things I use right away, such as X and its
applications. I can't imagine that Linux would make a better shape
here. I sometimes try some Live system CD from a Linux distribution
to see it this is still the case. Is this the case? Yes, it is
the case. Reboot, return to FreeBSD. :-)



--
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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[Polytropon]

On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:14:12 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@...> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:07:08 +0200, Jonathan McKeown <j.mckeown@...> wrote:
> > I was wondering if there were any other Slackers out there!
>
> Of course we are still `out there'.
>
> I started using a UNIX-like clone on my 386 SX with Slackware, by
> fetching the floppy disk images.  I've abandoned Linux for serious work
> for years now, but I still have my Infomagic CD-ROMs :)

hehe, me too. :-) In my case, it's a POWER!-CD LINUX (from Sybex) of
Slackware with kernel 2.0.32, X 3.1.1 - purchased with a magazine for
29,95 DM many years ago. The system it ran on was a 486 DX2 / 66.
And the system was quite usable, especially support for PS printer
and LaTeX were most helpful.


--
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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[Doug Poland]

Daniel Underwood wrote:
> QUESTION: Of the various modern Linux distributions, which do you
> prefer? and why?
>
> I'm very interested to see the spread of opinion about Linux
> distributions from FreeBSD fans.
>
I've been using FreeBSD since 2.2.1 and I implement and support FreeBSD
whenever I can.  That said, many companies already have a *nix
infrastructure and one must use what one is given.  I find Red Hat is
the most common linux distribution out there.  CentOS is often used by
these same companies for dev and test environments.

Occasionally end-users will ask me to recommend a version of linux to
play with and I point them to Ubuntu.


--
Regards,
Doug

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