PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What
is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of
nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles
Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know
is this:

WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR?

It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for
websites, applications and viewers.

Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments
in mind. 

Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like
"Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine
fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project
spec, how can I decide which engine to use?

I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar
with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used
Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful
for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here?

Thanks,
Andy.

	PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by andysk8er :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. =============================================== Check out my blog for Flash, AS3, and web development stuff: http://www.wastedpotential.com
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by Maggical :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message >From what I've read Papervision3D is including Away3D sometime soon or already has... Away3D is a modification of Papervision3D as I recall... On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:26 AM, andysk8er <elbarto37@...> wrote: Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by Peter Kapelyan :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message If you ask this question on the Away3D list, you'll probably get a more intelligent answer :) -Pete On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:26 AM, andysk8er <elbarto37@...> wrote: Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org -- ___________________ Actionscript 3.0 Flash 3D Graphics Engine HTTP://AWAY3D.COM _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by LI - Kai Reinhardt :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Away3D is based on PV, as far as I know. LEERRAUM-IMAGINATIONEN Dipl.-Des. (FH) Kai Reinhardt Balzenbergstraße 1 76530 Baden-Baden Deutschland Mob. +49 (0) 163 63 63 824 Mail info@... Skype leerraum-imaginationen MSN info@... Javier España \| javierespana.com schrieb: > >From what I've read Papervision3D is including Away3D sometime soon > or already has... > > Away3D is a modification of Papervision3D as I recall... > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:26 AM, andysk8er <elbarto37@... > <mailto:elbarto37@...>> wrote: > > > Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive > answer. What > is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a > bunch of > nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away > handles > Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really > want to know > is this: > > WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? > > It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended > mostly for > websites, applications and viewers. > > Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game > environments > in mind. > > Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about > things like > "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious > which engine > fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a > project > spec, how can I decide which engine to use? > > I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very > familiar > with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used > Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may > be helpful > for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone > here? > > Thanks, > Andy. > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html > Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > Papervision3D@... <mailto:Papervision3D@...> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > Papervision3D@... > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by Ralph Hauwert :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message An intelligent answer like, referring someone to another place ? Nah, you're wrong Peter. I'm not going to digg deep in this, but by now Away3D has branched far from Papervision3D, even though originally it was just a branch. Away3D seems to be focussing a lot on code generated geometry etc, and seems to be built more for code structure. Papervision3D is focussing more on importing models, rather then generating, and the code structure is optimized for speed. With both engines beeing good in their own fields (Papervision3D is significantly faster when just showing moving 3D objects, where Away3D has more hooks for optimizing for still scenes, although both engine can do the same in that field), I'd advise anyone to have a look at all engines for their purpose. Although there is a reason why Papervision3D is a household name ;-) Ralph. On Jul 2, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Peter Kapelyan wrote: If you ask this question on the Away3D list, you'll probably get a more intelligent answer :) -Pete On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:26 AM, andysk8er <elbarto37@...> wrote: Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org -- ___________________ Actionscript 3.0 Flash 3D Graphics Engine HTTP://AWAY3D.COM _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by Rob Bateman :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Hey Javier i'm sure there are plenty of people ready to elucidate you on the wherefores and whys of papervision, but i can certainly give you the Away3d answers. Away3d was started in april 2007 as an extension of Papervision that filled some functionality holes that were necessary for the projects we were working on. Since then, it has been about creating a stable, easy to use and well documented engine that has regular release updates and packages new features in with the old in the most compatible way we can manage (ie. in a way that doesn't break old code) A lot of people think Away3d is ideal for game development, and certainly with all the extra tools and geometry manipulation/generating classes, this is true. But our intention was to produce an all-purpose engine whose 3d framework offer it's users simplicity, extensiblity and stablity. game development being a more complex discipline is obviuosly going to see these differences more than people designing more basic websites, but we are not intentionally targetting one set of people over another. you can see the evolution of away3d documented in our features page, whcih is updated with every new release: http://away3d.com/features cheers Rob 2009/7/2 Javier España \| javierespana.com <info@...> >From what I've read Papervision3D is including Away3D sometime soon or already has... Away3D is a modification of Papervision3D as I recall... On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:26 AM, andysk8er <elbarto37@...> wrote: Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org -- Rob Bateman Flash Development & Consultancy rob.bateman@... www.infiniteturtles.co.uk www.away3d.com _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by Peter Kapelyan :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Hey Ralph, For puposes of being fair, the answer you'll get from this question from just this list would only give you a 1/2 answer :) That's all I meant. To get the full "intelligent" answer it would be fair to ask users of both engines, that simple :) -Pete On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Ralph Hauwert <r.hauwert@...> wrote: An intelligent answer like, referring someone to another place ? Nah, you're wrong Peter. I'm not going to digg deep in this, but by now Away3D has branched far from Papervision3D, even though originally it was just a branch. Away3D seems to be focussing a lot on code generated geometry etc, and seems to be built more for code structure. Papervision3D is focussing more on importing models, rather then generating, and the code structure is optimized for speed. With both engines beeing good in their own fields (Papervision3D is significantly faster when just showing moving 3D objects, where Away3D has more hooks for optimizing for still scenes, although both engine can do the same in that field), I'd advise anyone to have a look at all engines for their purpose. Although there is a reason why Papervision3D is a household name ;-) Ralph. On Jul 2, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Peter Kapelyan wrote: If you ask this question on the Away3D list, you'll probably get a more intelligent answer :) -Pete On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:26 AM, andysk8er <elbarto37@...> wrote: Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org -- ___________________ Actionscript 3.0 Flash 3D Graphics Engine HTTP://AWAY3D.COM _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org -- ___________________ Actionscript 3.0 Flash 3D Graphics Engine HTTP://AWAY3D.COM _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by LI - Kai Reinhardt :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message > where Away3D has more hooks for optimizing for still scenes tell me more, please... I didn't heared about this. .. yes I know, this list is not about away3D.... ;) LEERRAUM-IMAGINATIONEN Dipl.-Des. (FH) Kai Reinhardt Balzenbergstraße 1 76530 Baden-Baden Deutschland Mob. +49 (0) 163 63 63 824 Mail info@... Skype leerraum-imaginationen MSN info@... Ralph Hauwert schrieb: > An intelligent answer like, referring someone to another place ? Nah, > you're wrong Peter. > > I'm not going to digg deep in this, > but by now Away3D has branched far from Papervision3D, even though originally it was just a branch. > > Away3D seems to be focussing a lot on code generated geometry etc, and > seems to be built more for code structure. > Papervision3D is focussing more on importing models, rather then > generating, and the code structure is optimized for speed. > > With both engines beeing good in their own fields (Papervision3D is > significantly faster when just showing moving 3D objects, where Away3D > has more hooks for optimizing for still scenes, although both engine > can do the same in that field), I'd advise anyone to have a look at > all engines for their purpose. Although there is a reason why > Papervision3D is a household name ;-) > > Ralph. > > > On Jul 2, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Peter Kapelyan wrote: > >> If you ask this question on the Away3D list, you'll probably get a >> more intelligent answer :) >> >> -Pete >> >> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:26 AM, andysk8er <elbarto37@... >> <mailto:elbarto37@...>> wrote: >> >> >> Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive >> answer. What >> is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a >> bunch of >> nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away >> handles >> Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really >> want to know >> is this: >> >> WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? >> >> It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended >> mostly for >> websites, applications and viewers. >> >> Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game >> environments >> in mind. >> >> Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about >> things like >> "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious >> which engine >> fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a >> project >> spec, how can I decide which engine to use? >> >> I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very >> familiar >> with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't >> used >> Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may >> be helpful >> for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from >> anyone here? >> >> Thanks, >> Andy. >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html >> Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Papervision3D mailing list >> Papervision3D@... <mailto:Papervision3D@...> >> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ___________________ >> >> Actionscript 3.0 Flash 3D Graphics Engine >> >> HTTP://AWAY3D.COM >> _______________________________________________ >> Papervision3D mailing list >> Papervision3D@... <mailto:Papervision3D@...> >> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > Papervision3D@... > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by andysk8er :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Hey Rob, Thanks for the info. Can you give a specific example of a project that you think is better suited to Away3D? As one of the principal developers of Away, I'm sure you can explain which specific features of Away you think set it apart from PV3D. I know that the PV core team has been working hard to integrate a lot of these features into PV3D, but as your codebase is diverging into 2 completely separate engines, I think that Away and PV may begin to be better suited to different projects. Maybe a simpler way to say it is this: can you think of a project that Away is better suited for and what features of Away tip the balance? Sorry to be a pain. I'm just really curious. Thanks, Andy. Rob Bateman wrote: Hey Javier i'm sure there are plenty of people ready to elucidate you on the wherefores and whys of papervision, but i can certainly give you the Away3d answers. Away3d was started in april 2007 as an extension of Papervision that filled some functionality holes that were necessary for the projects we were working on. Since then, it has been about creating a stable, easy to use and well documented engine that has regular release updates and packages new features in with the old in the most compatible way we can manage (ie. in a way that doesn't break old code) A lot of people think Away3d is ideal for game development, and certainly with all the extra tools and geometry manipulation/generating classes, this is true. But our intention was to produce an all-purpose engine whose 3d framework offer it's users simplicity, extensiblity and stablity. game development being a more complex discipline is obviuosly going to see these differences more than people designing more basic websites, but we are not intentionally targetting one set of people over another. you can see the evolution of away3d documented in our features page, whcih is updated with every new release: http://away3d.com/features cheers Rob 2009/7/2 Javier España \| javierespana.com <info@javierespana.com> > >From what I've read Papervision3D is including Away3D sometime soon or > already has... > > Away3D is a modification of Papervision3D as I recall... > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:26 AM, andysk8er <elbarto37@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. >> What >> is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of >> nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles >> Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to >> know >> is this: >> >> WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? >> >> It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for >> websites, applications and viewers. >> >> Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments >> in mind. >> >> Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like >> "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which >> engine >> fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project >> spec, how can I decide which engine to use? >> >> I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar >> with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used >> Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be >> helpful >> for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? >> >> Thanks, >> Andy. >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html >> Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Papervision3D mailing list >> Papervision3D@osflash.org >> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > Papervision3D@osflash.org > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > > -- Rob Bateman Flash Development & Consultancy rob.bateman@gmail.com www.infiniteturtles.co.uk www.away3d.com _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@osflash.org http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org =============================================== Check out my blog for Flash, AS3, and web development stuff: http://www.wastedpotential.com
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by xero :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message syntatically there are some core differences in the engines as well. papervision3D uses the standard: myObject.myFunction(param:Type, arg:Type):return style of coding. which is one of my favorite things about PV3D. this helps the compiler to use code hinting to tell the programmer what the function needs exactly. while away3D uses the more abstract technique of: myObject.myFunction( { param1, args } ):return style of coding. i have gotten into more then a few arguments about this on different mailing lists + forums. so im just gonna say that this style is very popular, just not really my cup of tea. (does anyone know the names of these techniques???) i cant say for away3D, but i know from experiance that the PV3D dev team are CONSTANTLY working on design patterns, typing schemes, and other optmizations to gain more speed one frame per second at a time. (a good example of this was a few monts agos PV3D's trunk switched from arrays to dictionarys to shave of a few more seconds of calculations). but its like everything in the computer world. there are 1000+ ways to do the same thing. you need to check out all your options and see which one best aligns w/ yer goals. im many cases this is achieved by creating the same application on multiple languages. hope that helps! ____ ___ \ \/ /___________ ____ .\ // __ \_ __ \/ _ \ ./ \ ___/ \| \| \( <_> ) /___/\ \___ >__\|---\____/ \| \_/ \/ \| \| xero harrison \| \| xero.nu@gmail.com \| \| http://xero.nu \| \| http://fontvir.us \| \| http://hexarray.nu \| \| http://xero.owns.us \| `---------------------' ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: andysk8er <elbarto37@...> To: papervision3D@... Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Papervision3D] PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by Rob Bateman :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message @Andy sure, there are a lot of examples of Away3d sites out there and the feedback we get from our users is almost always positive on working with the framework. Some specific examples of the work we have done are as follows: ITManager3: Unseen Forces (http://itmanager3.intel.com/): uses Away3D's triangle caching system to great effect, producing static 3d scenes that have very good framerates despite the detail contained within, and remain fully interactive. BBC F1 Circuit Guides (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/circuit_guide/default.stm#top) used the geometry generation tools (in particular the pathextrusion tools) to create optimised geometry for the F1 tracks, providing a fast development turnaround and a perfect balance between detail and perfomance in the scenes. Morgan Stanley Matrix (http://www.morganstanley.com/matrixinfo/): used the Awaybuilder framework to provide a seamless workflow between 3d modeling and Flash, also took advantage of the soon to be released texfields upgrade. @xero were you aware that you can keep everything typedchecked in an Away3d project by assigning properties after object instantiation? almost all properties set by the initialiser can also be set by property setters. Opinion has always been polarised about the untyped object initialiser, but it's important to stress that it is not a compulsory way of working in Away3d @Ralph Although there is a reason why Papervision3D is a household name ;-) bit of a lazy comment, isn't that? If history teaches us anything, it's that the most popular is not necessarily the best. You've only got to look at the TV programme 'Britain's Got Talent' to realise that.. ;) also, just to clarify, papervision has no hooks for optimizing for still scenes. and while papervision may be faster for certain moving scenes, Away3d has better memory management which becomes very important for something like the ITM3 game, where average playing times can exceed half an hour. Rob On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:24 PM, xero <xero.nu@gmail.com> wrote: syntatically there are some core differences in the engines as well. papervision3D uses the standard: myObject.myFunction(param:Type, arg:Type):return style of coding. which is one of my favorite things about PV3D. this helps the compiler to use code hinting to tell the programmer what the function needs exactly. while away3D uses the more abstract technique of: myObject.myFunction( { param1, args } ):return style of coding. i have gotten into more then a few arguments about this on different mailing lists + forums. so im just gonna say that this style is very popular, just not really my cup of tea. (does anyone know the names of these techniques???) i cant say for away3D, but i know from experiance that the PV3D dev team are CONSTANTLY working on design patterns, typing schemes, and other optmizations to gain more speed one frame per second at a time. (a good example of this was a few monts agos PV3D's trunk switched from arrays to dictionarys to shave of a few more seconds of calculations). but its like everything in the computer world. there are 1000+ ways to do the same thing. you need to check out all your options and see which one best aligns w/ yer goals. im many cases this is achieved by creating the same application on multiple languages. hope that helps! ____ ___ \ \/ /___________ ____ .\ // __ \_ __ \/ _ \ ./ \ ___/ \| \| \( <_> ) /___/\ \___ >__\|---\____/ \| \_/ \/ \| \| xero harrison \| \| xero.nu@gmail.com \| \| http://xero.nu \| \| http://fontvir.us \| \| http://hexarray.nu \| \| http://xero.owns.us \| `---------------------' ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: andysk8er <elbarto37@...> To: papervision3D@... Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Papervision3D] PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org -- Rob Bateman Flash Development & Consultancy rob.bateman@... www.infiniteturtles.co.uk www.away3d.com _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by speedok :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Out of the box difference is: Pv3d vs Away3d is like Speed vs Gadgets i would say :) To be fair i need to test Away3d more and see how to turn off 'intelligent' z-sorting, since i bet that makes a huge difference in speed.
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by xero :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message @rob, "untyped object initialiser" thats the phrase i was looking for. and no, i was unware of that. good to know. as for optimizations of static scenes; the PV3D renderengine is quite flexable. its very easy to create multiple scenes/camers/objects and selectivly render only what has been updated. its not a core feature of the engine, but is very easly accomplished w/ some simple coding logic. side note: pete got me in dive into away3D when they hit their 2nd major milestone version... and i have to say, i was very impressed. the real reason i stuck w/ PV3D is familiarity. i have used the engine since beta, and are friends w/ lots of dev team members. is this the best reason to go w/ one engine over another? probally not. but thats just the way it is for me. @andy, sorry for the thread hijack. play around w/ the two engine's example files and you will almost immediatly see the differences between the workflow of each engine. ____ ___ \ \/ /___________ ____ .\ // __ \_ __ \/ _ \ ./ \ ___/ \| \| \( <_> ) /___/\ \___ >__\|---\____/ \| \_/ \/ \| \| xero harrison \| \| xero.nu@gmail.com \| \| http://xero.nu \| \| http://fontvir.us \| \| http://hexarray.nu \| \| http://xero.owns.us \| `---------------------' ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rob Bateman <rob.bateman@...> To: papervision3d@... Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 18:01:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! @Andy sure, there are a lot of examples of Away3d sites out there and the feedback we get from our users is almost always positive on working with the framework. Some specific examples of the work we have done are as follows: ITManager3: Unseen Forces (http://itmanager3.intel.com/): uses Away3D's triangle caching system to great effect, producing static 3d scenes that have very good framerates despite the detail contained within, and remain fully interactive. BBC F1 Circuit Guides (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/circuit_guide/default.stm#top) used the geometry generation tools (in particular the pathextrusion tools) to create optimised geometry for the F1 tracks, providing a fast development turnaround and a perfect balance between detail and perfomance in the scenes. Morgan Stanley Matrix (http://www.morganstanley.com/matrixinfo/): used the Awaybuilder framework to provide a seamless workflow between 3d modeling and Flash, also took advantage of the soon to be released texfields upgrade. @xero were you aware that you can keep everything typedchecked in an Away3d project by assigning properties after object instantiation? almost all properties set by the initialiser can also be set by property setters. Opinion has always been polarised about the untyped object initialiser, but it's important to stress that it is not a compulsory way of working in Away3d @Ralph Although there is a reason why Papervision3D is a household name ;-) bit of a lazy comment, isn't that? If history teaches us anything, it's that the most popular is not necessarily the best. You've only got to look at the TV programme 'Britain's Got Talent' to realise that.. ;) also, just to clarify, papervision has no hooks for optimizing for still scenes. and while papervision may be faster for certain moving scenes, Away3d has better memory management which becomes very important for something like the ITM3 game, where average playing times can exceed half an hour. Rob On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:24 PM, xero <xero.nu@gmail.com> wrote: syntatically there are some core differences in the engines as well. papervision3D uses the standard: myObject.myFunction(param:Type, arg:Type):return style of coding. which is one of my favorite things about PV3D. this helps the compiler to use code hinting to tell the programmer what the function needs exactly. while away3D uses the more abstract technique of: myObject.myFunction( { param1, args } ):return style of coding. i have gotten into more then a few arguments about this on different mailing lists + forums. so im just gonna say that this style is very popular, just not really my cup of tea. (does anyone know the names of these techniques???) i cant say for away3D, but i know from experiance that the PV3D dev team are CONSTANTLY working on design patterns, typing schemes, and other optmizations to gain more speed one frame per second at a time. (a good example of this was a few monts agos PV3D's trunk switched from arrays to dictionarys to shave of a few more seconds of calculations). but its like everything in the computer world. there are 1000+ ways to do the same thing. you need to check out all your options and see which one best aligns w/ yer goals. im many cases this is achieved by creating the same application on multiple languages. hope that helps! ____ ___ \ \/ /___________ ____ .\ // __ \_ __ \/ _ \ ./ \ ___/ \| \| \( <_> ) /___/\ \___ >__\|---\____/ \| \_/ \/ \| \| xero harrison \| \| xero.nu@gmail.com \| \| http://xero.nu \| \| http://fontvir.us \| \| http://hexarray.nu \| \| http://xero.owns.us \| `---------------------' ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: andysk8er <elbarto37@...> To: papervision3D@... Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Papervision3D] PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/PV3d-vs.-Away3D---what-the-difference--BE-SPECIFIC%21-tp24306699p24306699.html Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org -- Rob Bateman Flash Development & Consultancy rob.bateman@... www.infiniteturtles.co.uk www.away3d.com _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by andysk8er :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Thanks Rob! It sounds like Away has a lot of great tools for programatically creating and modifying geometry (like the path extrusion tool) and I noticed that the Away library has a lot more core object geometries built-in. I am hoping to do some experiments with Away in the near future, but it takes me a while to learn a new library and I've been swamped lately. Thanks for all of your input! -Andy =============================================== Check out my blog for Flash, AS3, and web development stuff: http://www.wastedpotential.com
	Hiding plane mesh by jmerrill_2001 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message I am making good progress on my first PV3d project building a 3D menu - I have the basics built - thanks for those who helped! Question: I am attaching the 3D buttons I am making to a plane, and then rotating the plane to rotation the buttons in unison - works great (this is probably the ways others do this I assume) - but I don't want the plane to actually render it's mesh - I want it to be hidden obviously - how to accomplish that? Hiding the plane's visibility or changing its alpha would hide the child objects (the buttons), so is there a way to make the mesh transparent? (When I make the plane, I pass in null for the material argument. ) Thanks. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Shared Services Solutions Development Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences - join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: Hiding plane mesh by Mark I. Ross :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Maybe I misunderstand, but if you don't want to see the plane why not just add your buttons to a "new DisplayObject3D()" - its a good container with no inherant visual representation. HTH, mark > I am making good progress on my first PV3d project building a 3D menu - > I have the basics built - thanks for those who helped! > > Question: I am attaching the 3D buttons I am making to a plane, and > then rotating the plane to rotation the buttons in unison - works great > (this is probably the ways others do this I assume) - but I don't want > the plane to actually render it's mesh - I want it to be hidden > obviously - how to accomplish that? Hiding the plane's visibility or > changing its alpha would hide the child objects (the buttons), so is > there a way to make the mesh transparent? (When I make the plane, I > pass in null for the material argument. ) > > Thanks. > > > Jason Merrill > > Bank of America Global Learning > Shared Services Solutions Development > > Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences > - join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community > > > > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > Papervision3D@... > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: Hiding plane mesh by jmerrill_2001 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message >> Maybe I misunderstand, but if you don't want to see the plane why not just >>add your buttons to a "new DisplayObject3D()" - its a good container with >>no inherant visual representation. Thanks, I'm completely new to Papervision3d development so unfamiliar with how you use different parts of the framework - thanks, I'll give that a try. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Shared Services Solutions Development Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences - join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: Hiding plane mesh by jmerrill_2001 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Works perfect, thanks Mark! Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Shared Services Solutions Development Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences - join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community -----Original Message----- From: papervision3d-bounces@... [mailto:papervision3d-bounces@...] On Behalf Of nospam@... Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:50 PM To: papervision3d@... Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Hiding plane mesh Maybe I misunderstand, but if you don't want to see the plane why not just add your buttons to a "new DisplayObject3D()" - its a good container with no inherant visual representation. HTH, mark _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by Peter Strømberg :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message There's one difference that hasn't been mentioned, but has proven to be of paramount importance to me, at least for product presentation, and that is normal mapping. Away has it, PV does not yet, though I've heard it mentioned a few times. http://away3d.com/away3d-normal-mapped-bust Don't confuse this with bump mapping, as I've seen people do. Normal mapping makes a low poly model look like a high poly model, and the only "hit" is an extra bitmap in the materials stack. While bump maps and normal maps can add detail, normal mapping has the appearance to adding geometry, especially to large smooth, rounded surfaces, not to mention nipples. For more info and examples google "Normal Mapping" Cheers, Pete(2) andysk8er wrote: Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2214 - Release Date: 07/02/09 05:54:00 -- PETER MCATOMINEY STRØMBERG hyperGIS ApS Helsingforsgade 27 8200 Århus N Denmark tlf: (0045) 70 20 04 03 mobile: (0045) 30 53 83 87 www.hypergis.com _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
	Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC! by Antoine Azar - 2XM Labs :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Nice demo, but to clarify what you say, normal mapping IS bump mapping. Antoine Azar 2XM Labs 645 Wellington W. Montreal, Quebec H3C 1T2, Canada T. 514-606-4821 http://www.2xmlabs.com On 3-Jul-09, at 2:44 PM, Peter Strømberg wrote: There's one difference that hasn't been mentioned, but has proven to be of paramount importance to me, at least for product presentation, and that is normal mapping. Away has it, PV does not yet, though I've heard it mentioned a few times. http://away3d.com/away3d-normal-mapped-bust Don't confuse this with bump mapping, as I've seen people do. Normal mapping makes a low poly model look like a high poly model, and the only "hit" is an extra bitmap in the materials stack. While bump maps and normal maps can add detail, normal mapping has the appearance to adding geometry, especially to large smooth, rounded surfaces, not to mention nipples. For more info and examples google "Normal Mapping" Cheers, Pete(2) andysk8er wrote: Okay, I have been researching this and I can't find a definitive answer. What is the main difference between PV3D and Away3D? Don't give me a bunch of nebulous statements like "Papervision has more shaders" or "Away handles Interactive materials better" or "PV is faster." What I really want to know is this: WHAT WAS EACH ENGINE BUILT FOR? It looks like PV3D has a broad feature set that was intended mostly for websites, applications and viewers. Away looks like it was designed with making 3D games and game environments in mind. Is this true or am I off the mark? I don't really care about things like "Away has a torus as a native object." I'm really just curious which engine fits a certain type of project better than another. If I have a project spec, how can I decide which engine to use? I'm not trying to start any arguments about the engines. I'm very familiar with Papervision and have built several projects in it. I haven't used Away3D, but I'm starting to think that a few of it's features may be helpful for a game I am designing in my spare time. Any advice from anyone here? Thanks, Andy. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2214 - Release Date: 07/02/09 05:54:00 -- PETER MCATOMINEY STRØMBERG hyperGIS ApS Helsingforsgade 27 8200 Århus N Denmark tlf: (0045) 70 20 04 03 mobile: (0045) 30 53 83 87 www.hypergis.com _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list Papervision3D@... http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org

PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Hiding plane mesh

Re: Hiding plane mesh

Re: Hiding plane mesh

Re: Hiding plane mesh

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!

Re: PV3d vs. Away3D - what the difference? BE SPECIFIC!