Nabble - Photo Forum

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-10T12:35:44Z

In a message dated 10/11/2009 01:22:05 GMT Standard Time, eichhorn@... writes:

am reluctant to contact them
for fear of asking naive questions that would display me as a fool!

I am sure you would get much further with an expert by saying at the start - this is something about which I know nothing, can you help me -

in contrast those who start with some kind of half truth or assumption eg 'all libraries use the Dewey Decimal Classification System' ,' a boat made from cement would sink like a stone' are more likely to get a brush off from and expert with an 'if you say so' kind of response.

In the days of conscription into the armed services it was not unusual for the person in charge to know less about a topic than some of his trainees hence in certain service classrooms the blackboards had a legend which read 'if you know nothing, say nothing - if you know something, say less.

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-10T06:50:20Z

Roger,

Artists can depict with color feelings and abstractions - things,
un-see-able to the eye.

Eyes evolved in dozens of ways. In an infinite universe it is probably
better to be an artist than a scientist to imagine fanciful ways of
seeing colors. But if you need some basis in science to get you going
try wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision

FYI us primates have three types of color receptors - mantis shrimp
have twelve! They make convincing "aliens":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stomatopod

How about art with this kind of stuff:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080811092450.htm

AZ

LOOKAROUND - Since 1978
Build a 120/35mm Lookaround!
The Lookaround E-Book
FREE COPY
http://www.panoramacamera.us

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [SPAM] Re: Imaginary colors Speculation
> From: Roger Eichhorn <eichhorn@...>
> Date: Mon, November 09, 2009 8:18 pm
> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
> <photoforum@...>
> It would be nice if some actual vision scientists would weigh in on
> this issue. Anyone know one? I do, but am reluctant to contact them
> for fear of asking naive questions that would display me as a fool!
> Roger
> On 9 Nov 2009, at 1:38 PM, Laurenz Bobke wrote:
> > Hmm,
> >
> > being addicted to photography, we're of course tempted to assume that
> > the eye was primarily created for us to produce and appreciate art.
> >
> > But, seen from a scientific point of view,isn't an eye just an organ
> > developed to grant its possessor an evolutionary advantage?
> > Even plants can detect the direction from which light falls on them
> > and adjust accordingly.
> > For just about any organism, the most important function of any eye
> > would be to find food and avoid becoming food for others, I assume,
> > followed by the need to find a mate and to communicate.
> > Consequently, our eyes are quite sensitive for green as this happens
> > to be the colour of plants using chlorophyll to convert sunlight into
> > usable energy.
> > Maybe, if they used a slightly different molecule, our eyes would be
> > optimised for a slightly different spectrum?
> > I assume that any "alien" would be adapted to his/her/its/?
> > environment, depending on the light spectrum emitted by the local
> > star(s), the availability of chemical elements and the course of the
> > evolution on their world.
> >
> > Perhaps, those aliens would find beauty in a certain balance of
> > colours and a geometry relevant to their species and find it difficult
> > to relate to our concepts.
> >
> > Just a thought,
> >
> > Laurenz
> > http://www.travelphoto.net/
> >
> >
> > 2009/11/9, lookaround360@... <lookaround360@...
> > >:
> >> DDB,
> >>
> >> That poses an interesting problem. What kind of pigments would a
> >> non-human use? I'm think something in UV range made from fluorescing
> >> minerals or something like that. There are some artist pigments that
> >> change colors depending on angle of light. Looks way-cool in gallery.
> >> Move your head a bit and what was one color changes to another.
> >> I'll see
> >> if I can find example from a gallery show we had last spring.
> >>
> >> AZ
> >>
> >> LOOKAROUND - Since 1978
> >> GET FREE COPY
> >> Build a 120/35mm Lookaround!
> >> The Lookaround E-Book 5ed.
> >> http://www.panoramacamera.us
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: Imaginary colors Speculation
> >>> From: David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@...>
> >>> Date: Sun, November 08, 2009 12:39 pm
> >>> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
> >>> <photoforum@...>
> >>> PhotoRoy6@... wrote:
> >>>> In a message dated 11/7/2009 11:46:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >>>> dd-b@... writes:Your first two sentences may be tautologically
> >>>> true (if you're asserting
> >>>> that "color" is a human construct), but it's also useless.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Now I titled my email "Imaginary colors Speculation" What I am
> >>>> saying
> >>>> is that there is no colors that we don't see (as a group). That
> >>>> there
> >>>> is no new color you can get by other means. When bats view sound
> >>>> waves
> >>>> if they see this as color it is of our spectrum but I suspect there
> >>>> brain senses sound waves as some sort of pattern.
> >>>> There is no point in searching for other colors.
> >>> At least short of brain modification, surgically or through genetic
> >>> engineering.
> >>> Not that I'm volunteering to be a test subject!!!!
> >>> There was an interesting bit in a very fine SF novel not mostly
> >>> about
> >>> sight (this was just a side detail), where it became relevant
> >>> dealing
> >>> with an alien species that they used different pigments in their
> >>> visual
> >>> receptors than we did. Hence blended colors, which is to say
> >>> nearly all
> >>> reproduced images and even original paintings, looked different to
> >>> them
> >>> than they did to us. Their artists were talking about trying to
> >>> figure
> >>> out how to paint for a human audience.
> >>> --
> >>> David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
> >>> Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
> >>> Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
> >>> Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
> >>
> >>
> >

Re: tablets anyone?

2009-11-10T06:17:35Z

On Tue, November 10, 2009 02:01, James B. Davis wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:05:48 +0800, karl shah-jenner
> <shahjen@...>
> wrote/replied to:
>
>>on matters technology, the rapid PS processors might like to look at the
>>new OpenOffice mouse
>>http://warmouse.com/blog/?cat=3
>
> That reminds me, I bought a new toy the other day, and it's related to
> photography even.
>
> I bought a Bamboo Pen and Touch Tablet. Have only played with it a bit so
> far
> but I like it!

I've had an Intuous 4 for some years, but I have to say I find I never use
it. I do a fair amount of retouching and mask making when I'm doing
photos, but the tablet just doesn't work for me. Probably because I never
learned to draw in the first place; what little I do know, I learned using
a mouse, later in life.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

RE: tablets anyone?

2009-11-10T05:38:49Z

Jim,

I got a Bamboo too. Now my brain needs to be re-wired I'm so used to
mousing. Aeon's ago when I did CAD I used a pen. If you do graphics a
pen is better. A couple of my buds are sold on tablets for PS. Some
genius should design a finger tip pen.

AZ

LOOKAROUND - Since 1978
Build a 120/35mm Lookaround!
The Lookaround E-Book
FREE COPY
http://www.panoramacamera.us

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [SPAM] tablets anyone?
> From: "James B. Davis" <jim@...>
> Date: Tue, November 10, 2009 3:01 am
> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
> <photoforum@...>
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:05:48 +0800, karl shah-jenner <shahjen@...>
> wrote/replied to:
> >on matters technology, the rapid PS processors might like to look at the
> >new OpenOffice mouse
> >http://warmouse.com/blog/?cat=3
> That reminds me, I bought a new toy the other day, and it's related to
> photography even.
> I bought a Bamboo Pen and Touch Tablet. Have only played with it a bit so far
> but I like it!
> --
> Jim Davis, Owner, Eastern Beaver Company:
> http://easternbeaver.com/ - Motorcycle Electrics
> Check out my incredible fuse panel - the PC-8 is a hit!
> 1990 Honda VFR750, 1988 Honda Africa Twin 650

Re: tablets anyone?

2009-11-10T04:14:17Z

I just bought the Intuos 4 tablet. It makes for some fabulous image
processing. So much easier than a mouse.

I think tablets are kind of the unsung heroes of computer peripheries.

Lea

life is short. photograph it.

On Nov 10, 2009, at 2:01 AM, "James B. Davis" <jim@...>
wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:05:48 +0800, karl shah-jenner <shahjen@...
> >
> wrote/replied to:
>
>> on matters technology, the rapid PS processors might like to look
>> at the
>> new OpenOffice mouse
>> http://warmouse.com/blog/?cat=3
>
> That reminds me, I bought a new toy the other day, and it's related to
> photography even.
>
> I bought a Bamboo Pen and Touch Tablet. Have only played with it a
> bit so far
> but I like it!
>
> --
> Jim Davis, Owner, Eastern Beaver Company:
> http://easternbeaver.com/ - Motorcycle Electrics
> Check out my incredible fuse panel - the PC-8 is a hit!
> 1990 Honda VFR750, 1988 Honda Africa Twin 650
>

tablets anyone?

2009-11-10T00:01:29Z

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:05:48 +0800, karl shah-jenner <shahjen@...>
wrote/replied to:

>on matters technology, the rapid PS processors might like to look at the
>new OpenOffice mouse
>http://warmouse.com/blog/?cat=3

That reminds me, I bought a new toy the other day, and it's related to
photography even.

I bought a Bamboo Pen and Touch Tablet. Have only played with it a bit so far
but I like it!

--
Jim Davis, Owner, Eastern Beaver Company:
http://easternbeaver.com/ - Motorcycle Electrics
Check out my incredible fuse panel - the PC-8 is a hit!
1990 Honda VFR750, 1988 Honda Africa Twin 650

Re: Question

2009-11-09T21:14:30Z

Laurenz:

Even quite inexpensive LCD projectors should be able to project
something like a book page relatively faithfully.
You should be able to adjust the colours if necessary via your computer.

Really good colours for showing off your best photographs combined
with relatively high resolution and a need to produce enough light to
really show images to a large group makes things much more costly of
course.

Problem is: most projectors are nowadays geared towards one of two
groups: business people who want to show bright graphics to large
audiences in rooms which are not completely darkened (but do not
really care about careful colour rendition) and secondly movie freaks
who want to watch the latest film in a relatively small, completely
dark room.

here's a bit more of an explanation of the various mainstream types and
shortcomings:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcd_dlp.htm

Re: Question - and a mouse

2009-11-09T21:05:48Z

>Ah, for the old epidiascope days!

haha, I still have a couple! the big one does 8x10's and is on loan to a
sculptor, the smaller doing 4x6's is in the hands of a leadlighter - they
are both very happy with such technology ;)

on matters technology, the rapid PS processors might like to look at the
new OpenOffice mouse
http://warmouse.com/blog/?cat=3

even as a MMORPGer, even I find this intimidating !

(main pic http://warmouse.com/ )

k

Re: Question

2009-11-09T20:55:32Z

Even quite inexpensive LCD projectors should be able to project
something like a book page relatively faithfully.
You should be able to adjust the colours if necessary via your computer.

Really good colours for showing off your best photographs combined
with relatively high resolution and a need to produce enough light to
really show images to a large group makes things much more costly of
course.

Problem is: most projectors are nowadays geared towards one of two
groups: business people who want to show bright graphics to large
audiences in rooms which are not completely darkened (but do not
really care about careful colour rendition) and secondly movie freaks
who want to watch the latest film in a relatively small, completely
dark room.

Laurenz

2009/11/10, Emily L. Ferguson <elf@...>:

> In my not very humble opinion if you're planning on projecting
> anything except text, color has to be as close to exact as possible.
> Even a projected page from a book in which the black is blueish and
> the white is pinkish is really not a very good option.
> --
> Emily L. Ferguson
> mailto:elf@...
> 508-563-6822
> New England landscapes, wooden boats and races
> http://www.landsedgephoto.com
> http://e-and-s.instaproofs.com/
>
>

Re: Question

2009-11-09T19:34:47Z

Ah, for the old epidiascope days!

Roger

On 9 Nov 2009, at 8:57 PM, Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

Re: Question

2009-11-09T18:57:03Z

In my not very humble opinion if you're planning on projecting
anything except text, color has to be as close to exact as possible.
Even a projected page from a book in which the black is blueish and
the white is pinkish is really not a very good option.
--
Emily L. Ferguson
mailto:elf@...
508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races
http://www.landsedgephoto.com
http://e-and-s.instaproofs.com/

Re: PHOTOFORUM digest 5263

2009-11-09T18:28:00Z

Thanks Emily, I've needed a site like that! Ill see how it goes.

Roger

On 9 Nov 2009, at 2:08 PM, Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

> At 6:35 PM +0000 11/9/09, Dan Mitchell wrote:
>> Thanks for that - I too have had to give up just about all of my
>> unmoderated newsgroups because of similar off-topic activity. My
>> favorite Apple Mac help site was in the end inundated with
>> political and conspiracy theories from one individual who kept
>> changing his name to avoid the filters.
>>
>> dan.
>
> Try the Mac-L. The moderators are so smart and fair that noone
> tries that sort of trick. And the info is top notch.
>
> http://www.listmoms.net/lists/mac-l/
> --
> Emily L. Ferguson
> mailto:elf@...
> 508-563-6822
> New England landscapes, wooden boats and races
> http://www.landsedgephoto.com
> http://e-and-s.instaproofs.com/
>

Re: Question

2009-11-09T17:49:19Z

Thank you, Karl.

Marilyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "karl shah-jenner" <shahjen@...>
To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students"
<photoforum@...>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: Question

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marilyn
> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:16 AM
> Subject: Question
>
>
> I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but I figured if any one can help me,
> that someone would be here.
>
> I need a projector to (and I may not have this right) project photographs
> I've taken and put on a DVD onto a movie-type screen.
>
> Or - I may be looking for equipment that will enable me to put on a power
> point program.
>
> I've been avoiding having to invest in this equipment because I'm not sure
> what I need. Am I making any sense? (If so, it would be a first for me
> {:->
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
>
>
> there's a small LED laser data projector around now with low power
> consumption and a theoretically better colour range than the LCD types..
> http://www.microvision.com/ is the manufacturer
> http://craziestgadgets.com/2008/02/25/pocket-size-laser-projector/
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_video_projector
>
>
>
> more common though is the LCD gate type - be aware these are more popular,
> but replacement lamnps can cost HEAPS and they need to be handled gently
> http://www.officeworks.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=10&Itemid=36
>
>
>
> a general overview:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_projector
>

Re: Question

2009-11-09T17:48:46Z

Hi James,

For groups of about 40; color doesn't have to be exact.

Thank you for taking the time to help me out.

Marilyn

----- Original Message -----

From: jds@...

To: photoforum@...

Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:04 PM

Subject: RE: Question

Marilyn:

Could you elaborate a little on the use? Large groups? Small groups? Does the color have to be very exact more so than on a TV screen coming from the DVD?

I think I saw a reference to a very small projector that might be suitable but Ill have to dig around to find the reference.

I think normal VGA resolution digital projectors can be had for less than $1,000 (US) pretty readily.

Cheers,

James

From: owner-photoforum@... [mailto:owner-photoforum@...] On Behalf Of Marilyn
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 6:16 PM
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
Subject: Question

I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but I figured if any one can help me, that someone would be here.

I need a projector to (and I may not have this right) project photographs I've taken and put on a DVD onto a movie-type screen.

Or - I may be looking for equipment that will enable me to put on a power point program.

I've been avoiding having to invest in this equipment because I'm not sure what I need. Am I making any sense? (If so, it would be a first for me {:->

Thank you in advance.

Marilyn

Re: Question

2009-11-09T17:34:48Z

----- Original Message -----
From: Marilyn
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:16 AM
Subject: Question

I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but I figured if any one can help me,
that someone would be here.

I need a projector to (and I may not have this right) project photographs
I've taken and put on a DVD onto a movie-type screen.

Or - I may be looking for equipment that will enable me to put on a power
point program.

I've been avoiding having to invest in this equipment because I'm not sure
what I need. Am I making any sense? (If so, it would be a first for me
{:->

Thank you in advance.

there's a small LED laser data projector around now with low power
consumption and a theoretically better colour range than the LCD types..
http://www.microvision.com/ is the manufacturer
http://craziestgadgets.com/2008/02/25/pocket-size-laser-projector/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_video_projector

more common though is the LCD gate type - be aware these are more popular,
but replacement lamnps can cost HEAPS and they need to be handled gently
http://www.officeworks.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=10&Itemid=36

a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_projector

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T17:18:30Z

It would be nice if some actual vision scientists would weigh in on
this issue. Anyone know one? I do, but am reluctant to contact them
for fear of asking naive questions that would display me as a fool!

Roger

On 9 Nov 2009, at 1:38 PM, Laurenz Bobke wrote:

> Hmm,
>
> being addicted to photography, we're of course tempted to assume that
> the eye was primarily created for us to produce and appreciate art.
>
> But, seen from a scientific point of view,isn't an eye just an organ
> developed to grant its possessor an evolutionary advantage?
> Even plants can detect the direction from which light falls on them
> and adjust accordingly.
> For just about any organism, the most important function of any eye
> would be to find food and avoid becoming food for others, I assume,
> followed by the need to find a mate and to communicate.
> Consequently, our eyes are quite sensitive for green as this happens
> to be the colour of plants using chlorophyll to convert sunlight into
> usable energy.
> Maybe, if they used a slightly different molecule, our eyes would be
> optimised for a slightly different spectrum?
> I assume that any "alien" would be adapted to his/her/its/?
> environment, depending on the light spectrum emitted by the local
> star(s), the availability of chemical elements and the course of the
> evolution on their world.
>
> Perhaps, those aliens would find beauty in a certain balance of
> colours and a geometry relevant to their species and find it difficult
> to relate to our concepts.
>
> Just a thought,
>
> Laurenz
> http://www.travelphoto.net/
>
>
> 2009/11/9, lookaround360@... <lookaround360@...
> >:
>> DDB,
>>
>> That poses an interesting problem. What kind of pigments would a
>> non-human use? I'm think something in UV range made from fluorescing
>> minerals or something like that. There are some artist pigments that
>> change colors depending on angle of light. Looks way-cool in gallery.
>> Move your head a bit and what was one color changes to another.
>> I'll see
>> if I can find example from a gallery show we had last spring.
>>
>> AZ
>>
>> LOOKAROUND - Since 1978
>> GET FREE COPY
>> Build a 120/35mm Lookaround!
>> The Lookaround E-Book 5ed.
>> http://www.panoramacamera.us
>>
>>
>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: Imaginary colors Speculation
>>> From: David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@...>
>>> Date: Sun, November 08, 2009 12:39 pm
>>> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
>>> <photoforum@...>
>>> PhotoRoy6@... wrote:
>>>> In a message dated 11/7/2009 11:46:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>>> dd-b@... writes:Your first two sentences may be tautologically
>>>> true (if you're asserting
>>>> that "color" is a human construct), but it's also useless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now I titled my email "Imaginary colors Speculation" What I am
>>>> saying
>>>> is that there is no colors that we don't see (as a group). That
>>>> there
>>>> is no new color you can get by other means. When bats view sound
>>>> waves
>>>> if they see this as color it is of our spectrum but I suspect there
>>>> brain senses sound waves as some sort of pattern.
>>>> There is no point in searching for other colors.
>>> At least short of brain modification, surgically or through genetic
>>> engineering.
>>> Not that I'm volunteering to be a test subject!!!!
>>> There was an interesting bit in a very fine SF novel not mostly
>>> about
>>> sight (this was just a side detail), where it became relevant
>>> dealing
>>> with an alien species that they used different pigments in their
>>> visual
>>> receptors than we did. Hence blended colors, which is to say
>>> nearly all
>>> reproduced images and even original paintings, looked different to
>>> them
>>> than they did to us. Their artists were talking about trying to
>>> figure
>>> out how to paint for a human audience.
>>> --
>>> David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
>>> Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
>>> Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
>>> Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
>>
>>
>

RE: Question

2009-11-09T17:04:55Z

Marilyn:

Could you elaborate a little on the use? Large groups? Small groups? Does the color have to be very exact – more so than on a TV screen coming from the DVD?

I think I saw a reference to a very small projector that might be suitable but I’ll have to dig around to find the reference.

I think ‘normal’ VGA resolution digital projectors can be had for less than $1,000 (US) pretty readily.

Cheers,

James

From: owner-photoforum@... [mailto:owner-photoforum@...] On Behalf Of Marilyn
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 6:16 PM
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
Subject: Question

I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but I figured if any one can help me, that someone would be here.

I need a projector to (and I may not have this right) project photographs I've taken and put on a DVD onto a movie-type screen.

Or - I may be looking for equipment that will enable me to put on a power point program.

I've been avoiding having to invest in this equipment because I'm not sure what I need. Am I making any sense? (If so, it would be a first for me {:->

Thank you in advance.

Marilyn

Re: Question

2009-11-09T16:34:59Z

Thank you, Emily. Any information is helpful to me.

Marilyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf@...>
To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students"
<photoforum@...>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Question

> Digital projectors are very common now, but not yet very inexpensive.
> Check B&H for specs.
>
> Recently I judged submissions at my local camera club using one owned by
> my local library. It wasn't very high quality so it couldn't be
> calibrated for accurate color.
>
> After about 45 minutes of attempting to use it, I looked behind me at the
> group and discovered that most of them were craning their necks to see my
> little PowerBook and we ended up discussing whether the club should do
> some research and buy one of its own.
> --
> Emily L. Ferguson
> mailto:elf@...
> 508-563-6822
> New England landscapes, wooden boats and races
> http://www.landsedgephoto.com
> http://e-and-s.instaproofs.com/
>

Re: Question

2009-11-09T15:58:49Z

Digital projectors are very common now, but not yet very inexpensive.
Check B&H for specs.

Recently I judged submissions at my local camera club using one owned
by my local library. It wasn't very high quality so it couldn't be
calibrated for accurate color.

After about 45 minutes of attempting to use it, I looked behind me at
the group and discovered that most of them were craning their necks
to see my little PowerBook and we ended up discussing whether the
club should do some research and buy one of its own.
--
Emily L. Ferguson
mailto:elf@...
508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races
http://www.landsedgephoto.com
http://e-and-s.instaproofs.com/

Question

2009-11-09T15:16:01Z

I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but I figured if any one can help me, that someone would be here.

I need a projector to (and I may not have this right) project photographs I've taken and put on a DVD onto a movie-type screen.

Or - I may be looking for equipment that will enable me to put on a power point program.

I've been avoiding having to invest in this equipment because I'm not sure what I need. Am I making any sense? (If so, it would be a first for me {:->

Thank you in advance.

Marilyn

Re: PHOTOFORUM digest 5263

2009-11-09T12:08:50Z

At 6:35 PM +0000 11/9/09, Dan Mitchell wrote:
>Thanks for that - I too have had to give up just about all of my
>unmoderated newsgroups because of similar off-topic activity. My
>favorite Apple Mac help site was in the end inundated with political
>and conspiracy theories from one individual who kept changing his
>name to avoid the filters.
>
>dan.

Try the Mac-L. The moderators are so smart and fair that noone tries
that sort of trick. And the info is top notch.

http://www.listmoms.net/lists/mac-l/
--
Emily L. Ferguson
mailto:elf@...
508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races
http://www.landsedgephoto.com
http://e-and-s.instaproofs.com/

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T11:38:50Z

Hmm,

being addicted to photography, we're of course tempted to assume that
the eye was primarily created for us to produce and appreciate art.

But, seen from a scientific point of view,isn't an eye just an organ
developed to grant its possessor an evolutionary advantage?
Even plants can detect the direction from which light falls on them
and adjust accordingly.
For just about any organism, the most important function of any eye
would be to find food and avoid becoming food for others, I assume,
followed by the need to find a mate and to communicate.
Consequently, our eyes are quite sensitive for green as this happens
to be the colour of plants using chlorophyll to convert sunlight into
usable energy.
Maybe, if they used a slightly different molecule, our eyes would be
optimised for a slightly different spectrum?
I assume that any "alien" would be adapted to his/her/its/?
environment, depending on the light spectrum emitted by the local
star(s), the availability of chemical elements and the course of the
evolution on their world.

Perhaps, those aliens would find beauty in a certain balance of
colours and a geometry relevant to their species and find it difficult
to relate to our concepts.

Just a thought,

Laurenz
http://www.travelphoto.net/

2009/11/9, lookaround360@... <lookaround360@...>:

> DDB,
>
> That poses an interesting problem. What kind of pigments would a
> non-human use? I'm think something in UV range made from fluorescing
> minerals or something like that. There are some artist pigments that
> change colors depending on angle of light. Looks way-cool in gallery.
> Move your head a bit and what was one color changes to another. I'll see
> if I can find example from a gallery show we had last spring.
>
> AZ
>
> LOOKAROUND - Since 1978
> GET FREE COPY
> Build a 120/35mm Lookaround!
> The Lookaround E-Book 5ed.
> http://www.panoramacamera.us
>
>
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: Imaginary colors Speculation
>> From: David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@...>
>> Date: Sun, November 08, 2009 12:39 pm
>> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
>> <photoforum@...>
>> PhotoRoy6@... wrote:
>> > In a message dated 11/7/2009 11:46:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> > dd-b@... writes:Your first two sentences may be tautologically
>> > true (if you're asserting
>> > that "color" is a human construct), but it's also useless.
>> >
>> >
>> > Now I titled my email "Imaginary colors Speculation" What I am saying
>> > is that there is no colors that we don't see (as a group). That there
>> > is no new color you can get by other means. When bats view sound waves
>> > if they see this as color it is of our spectrum but I suspect there
>> > brain senses sound waves as some sort of pattern.
>> > There is no point in searching for other colors.
>> At least short of brain modification, surgically or through genetic
>> engineering.
>> Not that I'm volunteering to be a test subject!!!!
>> There was an interesting bit in a very fine SF novel not mostly about
>> sight (this was just a side detail), where it became relevant dealing
>> with an alien species that they used different pigments in their visual
>> receptors than we did. Hence blended colors, which is to say nearly all
>> reproduced images and even original paintings, looked different to them
>> than they did to us. Their artists were talking about trying to figure
>> out how to paint for a human audience.
>> --
>> David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
>> Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
>> Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
>> Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
>
>

Re: PHOTOFORUM digest 5263

2009-11-09T10:35:34Z

On 9 Nov 2009, at 04:06, List for Photo/Imaging Educators -
Professionals - Students wrote:

>
> From: ADavidhazy <andpph@...>
>

> It is a shame that as a result of one person a request to stop
> disruptive, off-topic, messages that smack of "phishing" this
> message would have to be posted to the list.

-----------------------------------

Thanks for that - I too have had to give up just about all of my
unmoderated newsgroups because of similar off-topic activity. My
favorite Apple Mac help site was in the end inundated with political
and conspiracy theories from one individual who kept changing his name
to avoid the filters.

dan.

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T09:05:44Z

You want imaginary colors? Check out any male hummingbird. The
colors are vibrant viewed from the correct angle.

Roger

On 9 Nov 2009, at 10:49 AM, lookaround360@... wrote:

>
> Karl,
>
> Was the trucks paint some sort of nano pigment? That's something Ford
> used to offer. Cars looked kind of pinkish, kind of blueish... .
> Kind of
> gorpy!
>
> The paintings I saw were displayed kind of like you suggest with more
> than one color temp light. That was not on-purpose! Can't find the
> pics
> I took of them with our gallery manager holding them at different
> angles
> - darn!
>
> Now the question is - where can I get some for my ink jet printer?
> I could make my own from crushed butterfly wings, Windex, glycerin,...
>
> AZ
>
> LOOKAROUND - Since 1978
> Build a 120/35mm Lookaround!
> The Lookaround E-Book 5ed.
> GET FREE COPY
> http://www.panoramacamera.us
>
>
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: Imaginary colors Speculation
>> From: karl shah-jenner <shahjen@...>
>> Date: Mon, November 09, 2009 11:28 am
>> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
>> <photoforum@...>
>> Alan:
>> That poses an interesting problem. What kind of pigments would a
>> non-human use? I'm think something in UV range made from fluorescing
>> minerals or something like that. There are some artist pigments that
>> change colors depending on angle of light. Looks way-cool in gallery.
>> Move your head a bit and what was one color changes to another.
>> I'll see
>> if I can find example from a gallery show we had last spring.
>> here's a car I photographed painted in one such style of paint
>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~shahjen/images/small.jpg
>

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T08:49:35Z

Karl,

Was the trucks paint some sort of nano pigment? That's something Ford
used to offer. Cars looked kind of pinkish, kind of blueish... . Kind of
gorpy!

The paintings I saw were displayed kind of like you suggest with more
than one color temp light. That was not on-purpose! Can't find the pics
I took of them with our gallery manager holding them at different angles
- darn!

Now the question is - where can I get some for my ink jet printer?
I could make my own from crushed butterfly wings, Windex, glycerin,...

AZ

LOOKAROUND - Since 1978
Build a 120/35mm Lookaround!
The Lookaround E-Book 5ed.
GET FREE COPY
http://www.panoramacamera.us

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [SPAM] Re: Imaginary colors Speculation
> From: karl shah-jenner <shahjen@...>
> Date: Mon, November 09, 2009 11:28 am
> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
> <photoforum@...>
> Alan:
> That poses an interesting problem. What kind of pigments would a
> non-human use? I'm think something in UV range made from fluorescing
> minerals or something like that. There are some artist pigments that
> change colors depending on angle of light. Looks way-cool in gallery.
> Move your head a bit and what was one color changes to another. I'll see
> if I can find example from a gallery show we had last spring.
> here's a car I photographed painted in one such style of paint
> http://members.iinet.net.au/~shahjen/images/small.jpg

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T08:28:46Z

Alan:

That poses an interesting problem. What kind of pigments would a
non-human use? I'm think something in UV range made from fluorescing
minerals or something like that. There are some artist pigments that
change colors depending on angle of light. Looks way-cool in gallery.
Move your head a bit and what was one color changes to another. I'll see
if I can find example from a gallery show we had last spring.

here's a car I photographed painted in one such style of paint
http://members.iinet.net.au/~shahjen/images/small.jpg

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T07:54:17Z

On Mon, November 9, 2009 09:42, lookaround360@... wrote:

> That poses an interesting problem. What kind of pigments would a
> non-human use?

Presumably they would choose pigments that worked well to convey colors to
their visual system, while being compatible with the rest of the process
(easier for brush-applied pigments, somewhat harder for chromagenic color
film). Which is to say each species would make different choices.

Well, it's possible there are limited numbers of "good" choices for
retinal pigments, easily produced biologically and so forth, maybe. If
so, the range of what various species use would be smaller. Our
experience on earth is narrow since the species all seem to be pretty
closely related.

> I'm think something in UV range made from fluorescing
> minerals or something like that. There are some artist pigments that
> change colors depending on angle of light. Looks way-cool in gallery.
> Move your head a bit and what was one color changes to another. I'll see
> if I can find example from a gallery show we had last spring.

Oooh, deliberate metamerism! That'll really annoy some people. But
yeah, if used cleverly it might make for very interesting visual effects.
Maybe people would want to light the paintings with two lights at
different angles with different types of bulbs, to emphasize the effect.
In fact, maybe the lighting setup should be part of the work, so the
artist can plan things to do what he wants with the lighting setup.

--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T07:42:15Z

DDB,

That poses an interesting problem. What kind of pigments would a
non-human use? I'm think something in UV range made from fluorescing
minerals or something like that. There are some artist pigments that
change colors depending on angle of light. Looks way-cool in gallery.
Move your head a bit and what was one color changes to another. I'll see
if I can find example from a gallery show we had last spring.

AZ

LOOKAROUND - Since 1978
GET FREE COPY
Build a 120/35mm Lookaround!
The Lookaround E-Book 5ed.
http://www.panoramacamera.us

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [SPAM] Re: Imaginary colors Speculation
> From: David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@...>
> Date: Sun, November 08, 2009 12:39 pm
> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
> <photoforum@...>
> PhotoRoy6@... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/7/2009 11:46:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > dd-b@... writes:Your first two sentences may be tautologically
> > true (if you're asserting
> > that "color" is a human construct), but it's also useless.
> >
> >
> > Now I titled my email "Imaginary colors Speculation" What I am saying
> > is that there is no colors that we don't see (as a group). That there
> > is no new color you can get by other means. When bats view sound waves
> > if they see this as color it is of our spectrum but I suspect there
> > brain senses sound waves as some sort of pattern.
> > There is no point in searching for other colors.
> At least short of brain modification, surgically or through genetic
> engineering.
> Not that I'm volunteering to be a test subject!!!!
> There was an interesting bit in a very fine SF novel not mostly about
> sight (this was just a side detail), where it became relevant dealing
> with an alien species that they used different pigments in their visual
> receptors than we did. Hence blended colors, which is to say nearly all
> reproduced images and even original paintings, looked different to them
> than they did to us. Their artists were talking about trying to figure
> out how to paint for a human audience.
> --
> David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
> Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
> Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
> Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T06:30:47Z

Thanks, will investigate.

On 9/11/09 14:12, "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@...> wrote:

>
> On Mon, November 9, 2009 05:29, jonathan turner wrote:
>> Which SF novel was that? And by who? I'm a bit of an SF addict...quite
>> like
>> to read that.
>
> The bit I talked about was from _The Mote In God's Eye_ by Larry Niven and
> Jerry Pournelle.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Jonathan Turner
Photographer

e: pictures@...
t: 0113 217 1275
m:07796 470573

7 Scott Hall Walk, Leeds, LS7 3JQ

http://www.jonathan-turner.com

Re: UV/Haze filter

2009-11-09T06:15:37Z

On Mon, November 9, 2009 03:24, Kostas Papakotas wrote:

>
> Anyway, time to ask something too....is it true that a hood enhaces the
> image contrast? (maybe do not letting it degrade by the side light?)

Yes, it does.

At least, some of them do, some of the time; in cases where there would
have been a problem, but the hood manages to cut enough extraneous light
to make a difference. You know how you sometimes shade the lens with your
hand to block really bad visible flares, or flag lights on the set to keep
them from shining directly into the lens? Same thing.

For a wide-range zoom it's not going to do anything much except at the
wide end, of course.

--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T06:12:14Z

On Mon, November 9, 2009 05:29, jonathan turner wrote:
> Which SF novel was that? And by who? I'm a bit of an SF addict...quite
> like
> to read that.

The bit I talked about was from _The Mote In God's Eye_ by Larry Niven and
Jerry Pournelle.

--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T05:50:56Z

Not yet read any of his books, though keep running across his name so will
make a point of finding him out next.

Er, I guess this counts as 'off topic'? Oops. Has anyone read any books
recently (SF or otherwise) specifically about photography? I'm trying to
read 'The Photograph as Contemporary Art' by Charlotte Cotton, though if I'm
completely honest, it's a touch dry. Give me Phillip K Dick any day.

Jonathan.

On 9/11/09 12:10, "karl shah-jenner" <shahjen@...> wrote:

> Which SF novel was that? And by who? I'm a bit of an SF addict...quite like
> to read that.
>
> Jonathan.
>
>
> not one I know, the only I know of that refers to synisthesia is "Tiger,
> Tiger" (or The Stars My Destination) - Alfred Bester
>
>
> damn, that guy could write good sci-fi :)
>
> k
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Jonathan Turner
Photographer

e: pictures@...
t: 0113 217 1275
m:07796 470573

7 Scott Hall Walk, Leeds, LS7 3JQ

http://www.jonathan-turner.com

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T04:09:07Z

Which SF novel was that? And by who? I'm a bit of an SF addict...quite like
to read that.

Jonathan.

not one I know, the only I know of that refers to synisthesia is "Tiger,
Tiger" (or The Stars My Destination) - Alfred Bester

damn, that guy could write good sci-fi :)

k

Re: Imaginary colors Speculation

2009-11-09T03:29:58Z

Which SF novel was that? And by who? I'm a bit of an SF addict...quite like
to read that.

Jonathan.

On 8/11/09 17:39, "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@...> wrote:

> PhotoRoy6@... wrote:
>> In a message dated 11/7/2009 11:46:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> dd-b@... writes:Your first two sentences may be tautologically
>> true (if you're asserting
>> that "color" is a human construct), but it's also useless.
>>
>>
>> Now I titled my email "Imaginary colors Speculation" What I am saying
>> is that there is no colors that we don't see (as a group). That there
>> is no new color you can get by other means. When bats view sound waves
>> if they see this as color it is of our spectrum but I suspect there
>> brain senses sound waves as some sort of pattern.
>> There is no point in searching for other colors.
>
>
> At least short of brain modification, surgically or through genetic
> engineering.
>
>
> Not that I'm volunteering to be a test subject!!!!
>
>
> There was an interesting bit in a very fine SF novel not mostly about
> sight (this was just a side detail), where it became relevant dealing
> with an alien species that they used different pigments in their visual
> receptors than we did. Hence blended colors, which is to say nearly all
> reproduced images and even original paintings, looked different to them
> than they did to us. Their artists were talking about trying to figure
> out how to paint for a human audience.

Re: UV/Haze filter

2009-11-09T01:24:33Z

I am sort of in the middle of you....I have the UV filter constantly on..Else it may not be there when I need it...(paied the price with some "lost" frames)

and the hood has saved my lbig zoom ens being drop from I meter on the street....but I do not take chances with mis-behaviour...

baggies on the tripod feet? come on! new rubber taps are available at the dollar store!

Anyway, time to ask something too....is it true that a hood enhaces the image contrast? (maybe do not letting it degrade by the side light?)

enjoy, kostas

--- Στις Δευτ., 09/11/09, ο/η David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@...> έγραψε:

Από: David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@...>
Θέμα: Re: UV/Haze filter
Προς: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students" <photoforum@...>
Ημερομηνία: Δευτέρα, 9 Νοέμβριος 2009, 1:04

Gregory wrote:
> I'm the exact opposite. I never carry a UV on any lenses, just extra glass my sharpness is required to pass through. I keep my lenses hoods on at all times instead. I have yet to lose a lenses from blowing out the glass. I have also never lost any threads from using metal hoods, dented but functional is my norm. I have lost plenty of those plastic hoods.

I've done both at various times with various lenses (though, looking back, I see a pattern that my more expensive lenses are the ones I DON'T put a filter on). Haven't lost a lens or hood or even the threads to a fall in any case.

>
> My friends are amazed at how badly I treat my equipment. Anyone out there put plastic baggies on the feet of your tripod before use? I have a friend who does.

Not a baggy guy in that context, no.

I seem to handle my cameras somewhat gently, given how long they last and how few dents they have, but I don't feel it interferes with my getting pictures.

Hmmm; what are the craziest things people have done with their cameras? Only the first one of mine impresses even ME very much; I'm not a huge risk-taker.

I set my D700 on its back on the ground, pointed up at the muzzle of a mortar less than two feet away, knowing that in addition to the gunpowder and the projectile there were two baggies of gasoline in the barrel to "enhance" the muzzle blast; I had to clean a thin layer of gasoline off the front of the lens after that one. The picture was spectacular.

I've lowered cameras off a bridge by the tripod, to take shots from close to water level. As I remember it, the pictures weren't in the end very interesting.

--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

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