Please comment on trademark guidelines

[Josh Berkus]

Advocacy geeks,

Based on requests for clarification from vendors, Dave Page crafted this
draft trademark policy for use of "Slonik":

http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy

Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.  Please no
armchair lawyering, unless you *are* an attorney; we just want to make
sure that this policy encompasses desired community uses, not its legal
pedigree.

Thanks.

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
www.pgexperts.com

--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Greg Sabino Mullane]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160


> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy
>
> Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.

<quote>"Slony" is a registered trademark.</quote>

Registered to who? The page should state at least that.

Also, this page should be renamed if its really about the Slonik
logo and nothing else.

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@...
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200909281352
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iEYEAREDAAYFAkrA99gACgkQvJuQZxSWSsgPbACg3/LQo73L/Xv9ou6qa9m/siAu
oCMAoJtuniPiZQI+f27g5cxm3ujPm03B
=6pv1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Santiago Zarate-2]

*. You may not state or otherwise lead people to believe, that you represent the
PostgreSQL Global Development Group in any way other than as an individual or corporate
contributor to the project.

I would add/say also "corporate user or individual user", since not everybody using
postgresql, is giving back something at all (money, code, documentation, promotion...) and
we all know, contributing is not the same as using...

just my two cents...

--
Santiago Zarate
santiago@...
([phone]
([phone]

[Joshua D. Drake]

On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 10:26 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:

> Advocacy geeks,
>
> Based on requests for clarification from vendors, Dave Page crafted this
> draft trademark policy for use of "Slonik":
>
> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy
>
> Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.  Please no
> armchair lawyering, unless you *are* an attorney; we just want to make
> sure that this policy encompasses desired community uses, not its legal
> pedigree.
>
> Thanks.

Uhhh what trademark?


>
> --
> Josh Berkus
> PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
> www.pgexperts.com
>
--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
If the world pushes look it in the eye and GRR. Then push back harder. - Salamander


--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Dave Page-7]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:10 PM, Santiago Zarate
<santiago@...> wrote:
> *. You may not state or otherwise lead people to believe, that you represent the
> PostgreSQL Global Development Group in any way other than as an individual or corporate
> contributor to the project.
>
> I would add/say also "corporate user or individual user", since not everybody using
> postgresql, is giving back something at all (money, code, documentation, promotion...) and
> we all know, contributing is not the same as using...

Well, users shouldn't be presenting themselves as (part of) the
development team anyway. We intentionally use the term 'contributor'
in this case.

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com

--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Dave Page-7]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@...> wrote:

> On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 10:26 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
>> Advocacy geeks,
>>
>> Based on requests for clarification from vendors, Dave Page crafted this
>> draft trademark policy for use of "Slonik":
>>
>> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy
>>
>> Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.  Please no
>> armchair lawyering, unless you *are* an attorney; we just want to make
>> sure that this policy encompasses desired community uses, not its legal
>> pedigree.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Uhhh what trademark?

The 'Slonik' elephant logo has been a trademark owned by Marc for years.


--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com

--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Chander Ganesan-3]

Josh Berkus wrote:

> Advocacy geeks,
>
> Based on requests for clarification from vendors, Dave Page crafted this
> draft trademark policy for use of "Slonik":
>
> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy
>
> Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.  Please no
> armchair lawyering, unless you *are* an attorney; we just want to make
> sure that this policy encompasses desired community uses, not its legal
> pedigree.
>  

I looked at the USPTO.gov search site (an owner search using Fournier as
the owner name) and couldn't find a reference to such a trademark.

I'm wondering if putting up a policy regarding the trademark use at this
point is "armchair lawyering" itself.  Before trying to apply global
enforcement of a trademark held in one country, might it be appropriate
to check with a lawyer to make sure that doing so legitimate?

A link to the trademark itself, if available, would be nice to have
there, and would help to at least legitimatize the policy somewhat.

--
Chander Ganesan
Open Technology Group, Inc.
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC  27560
919-463-0999/877-258-8987
http://www.otg-nc.com



--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Peter Eisentraut-2]

On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 08:51 -0400, Chander Ganesan wrote:

> Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Advocacy geeks,
> >
> > Based on requests for clarification from vendors, Dave Page crafted this
> > draft trademark policy for use of "Slonik":
> >
> > http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy
> >
> > Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.  Please no
> > armchair lawyering, unless you *are* an attorney; we just want to make
> > sure that this policy encompasses desired community uses, not its legal
> > pedigree.
> >  
> I looked at the USPTO.gov search site (an owner search using Fournier as
> the owner name) and couldn't find a reference to such a trademark.

It's registered in Canada.



--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Peter Eisentraut-2]

On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 08:45 +0100, Dave Page wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 10:26 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> >> Advocacy geeks,
> >>
> >> Based on requests for clarification from vendors, Dave Page crafted this
> >> draft trademark policy for use of "Slonik":
> >>
> >> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy
> >>
> >> Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.  Please no
> >> armchair lawyering, unless you *are* an attorney; we just want to make
> >> sure that this policy encompasses desired community uses, not its legal
> >> pedigree.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > Uhhh what trademark?
>
> The 'Slonik' elephant logo has been a trademark owned by Marc for years.

A few comments then:

- Many of us know that "PostgreSQL" is registered as a trademark.  A
trademark policy on that might be useful, more so than for the logo.

- It's easy to find the registration for "PostgreSQL" in the Canadian
trademark database, but searching for the logo is a bit harder.  Link
please.

- In general, it would be better to give a complete account of who holds
what trademark and how alongside the rules that are supposed to govern
the use.

- Calling the logo "Slonik" is confusing, as "Slonik" is clearly (also)
associated with the Slony project, which incidentally uses a different
logo.  (Wasn't the old crystal elephant Slonik anyway?)

- If we're getting legalistic on the logo use, we also need a copyright
license for it (which would probably look very similar to the trademark
policy).



--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Richard Broersma]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@...> wrote:

> Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.  Please no
> armchair lawyering, unless you *are* an attorney; we just want to make
> sure that this policy encompasses desired community uses, not its legal
> pedigree.

I have a question regarding the difference between a trademark and the
BSD license.

pgfoundry shows that all of the graphics in this project are release
under the BSD license:
http://pgfoundry.org/projects/graphics/
http://pgfoundry.org/docman/view.php/1000089/120/elephant-64.png


Will the policy the graphic use harmonize with the BSD license?

--
Regards,
Richard Broersma Jr.

Visit the Los Angeles PostgreSQL Users Group (LAPUG)
http://pugs.postgresql.org/lapug

--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Shane Ambler-4]

Richard Broersma wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@...> wrote:
>
>> Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.  Please no
>> armchair lawyering, unless you *are* an attorney; we just want to make
>> sure that this policy encompasses desired community uses, not its legal
>> pedigree.
>
> I have a question regarding the difference between a trademark and the
> BSD license.
>
> pgfoundry shows that all of the graphics in this project are release
> under the BSD license:
> http://pgfoundry.org/projects/graphics/
> http://pgfoundry.org/docman/view.php/1000089/120/elephant-64.png
>
>
> Will the policy the graphic use harmonize with the BSD license?
>

Having the trademark allows you to stop the logo being used to promote
a non-postgresql product.

The source for recreating the image can be freely available (BSD) and
you can freely distribute copies of the image, but you need to comply
with the trademark conditions if you want to display the resulting
image.


--

Shane Ambler
pgSQL (at) Sheeky (dot) Biz

--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

[Robert Treat]

On Tuesday 29 September 2009 09:24:45 Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 08:45 +0100, Dave Page wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Joshua D. Drake
<jd@...> wrote:

> > > On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 10:26 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > >> Advocacy geeks,
> > >>
> > >> Based on requests for clarification from vendors, Dave Page crafted
> > >> this draft trademark policy for use of "Slonik":
> > >>
> > >> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy
> > >>
> > >> Please comment on this policy here or on its discussion page.  Please
> > >> no armchair lawyering, unless you *are* an attorney; we just want to
> > >> make sure that this policy encompasses desired community uses, not its
> > >> legal pedigree.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks.
> > >
> > > Uhhh what trademark?
> >
> > The 'Slonik' elephant logo has been a trademark owned by Marc for years.
>
> A few comments then:
>
> - Many of us know that "PostgreSQL" is registered as a trademark.  A
> trademark policy on that might be useful, more so than for the logo.
>

I guess I can't comment since we're not supposed to be armchair lawyering,
though I think I agreed with the poster upthread who said this whole topic is
just armchair lawyering.

> - It's easy to find the registration for "PostgreSQL" in the Canadian
> trademark database, but searching for the logo is a bit harder.  Link
> please.

+1

> - In general, it would be better to give a complete account of who holds
> what trademark and how alongside the rules that are supposed to govern
> the use.
>
> - Calling the logo "Slonik" is confusing, as "Slonik" is clearly (also)
> associated with the Slony project, which incidentally uses a different
> logo.  (Wasn't the old crystal elephant Slonik anyway?)
>

Yes, but the mascot has always been referred to as Slonik, before Slony
started doing it. (IIRC Vadeem was the one who named it)

OTOH, pretty sure that any trademark hel by Marc would also be on the old
crystal elephant logo anyway; as mentioned it would be great to see a link to
any actual trademark registry there is.

> - If we're getting legalistic on the logo use, we also need a copyright
> license for it (which would probably look very similar to the trademark
> policy).

No argument, but you also need to factor in that it is BSD licensed.

--
Robert Treat
Conjecture: http://www.xzilla.net
Consulting: http://www.omniti.com

--
Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@...)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy