Practical Session Limits

[David Ringsmuth]

I've got a Client who wants to put up a web site that will server 50,000 to
100,000 users.

 

In the current architecture of A4Dv4.5r1 and 4D 04.7R3HF3 on Windows Server
2003 SE SP2 on 2 CPU 2.66GHz with 1GB RAM, and a major high speed internet
connection.

 

..is it reasonable to say that A4D can responsively support 5000
simultaneous user sessions where the users are editing their own individual
user records, A4D is written using FuseBox methods, the HTML uses an IFrame
to return the changed portion of the user experience, the other elements
reasonably optimized?

 

If the answer is "YES", please show me a site that handles this kind of
volume so that I can tell my client, "Look here."

 

Thanks,

David

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[David Wright-9]

David

Obviously I don't know what the nature of your proposed site is, but  
on average I would not expect a very high proportion of users to be  
online simultaneously (ie, within the lifetime of a session item). We  
have sites with 10,000-plus users, and we encourage them to log in  
using reminder emails. We send all the emails in one burst, and even  
then our A4D-based system is comfortably within its capabilities. You  
could stagger reminders.

We tend to see the most sessions open when Google or someone is  
harvesting!

As far as I know the number of session items is not too significant,  
but you need to be sure that the amount of RAM they add up to is  
within your hardware's specification.

Bear in mind I'm not a great expert!

David Wright

On 15 Jun 2009, at 22:03, David Ringsmuth wrote:

> I've got a Client who wants to put up a web site that will server  
> 50,000 to
> 100,000 users.
>
> In the current architecture of A4Dv4.5r1 and 4D 04.7R3HF3 on Windows  
> Server
> 2003 SE SP2 on 2 CPU 2.66GHz with 1GB RAM, and a major high speed  
> internet
> connection.
>
> ..is it reasonable to say that A4D can responsively support 5000
> simultaneous user sessions where the users are editing their own  
> individual
> user records, A4D is written using FuseBox methods, the HTML uses an  
> IFrame
> to return the changed portion of the user experience, the other  
> elements
> reasonably optimized?
>
> If the answer is "YES", please show me a site that handles this kind  
> of
> volume so that I can tell my client, "Look here."

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[David Ringsmuth]

David Wright,

I knew when posting that I left wiggle room in the area of RAM and the
number of users who are really using the site at once. For the record, let's
say RAM is not an issue. We can keep the session vars to a minimum.

I was trying to get a response for the Practical Session Limits in the
environment I described.

I guess another approach is to try to determine the bottle-necks. What is
the most limiting factor, then the next, etc.

I'm expecting that 4D/A4D will be the first bottle-neck. If that is the
case, then it may be possible to have a web server in front of 4D/A4D that
load-balances among several 4D Client/A4D web servers. Who is doing this
http server architecture that I can point to and say "Look here..."

If someone is doing this, are they running multiple 4D/A4D web clients on
single a multi-processor box? I really wonder how this scenario can be load
balanced managed by front-end web server (probably using running/repeating
sequence of IP ports [8080;then 8081;8082...8089;then 8080;etc..]).

I need a scale-ability answer to point to and say.... (you get the idea).

Thanks,
David

-----Original Message-----
From: active4d-dev-bounces@...
[mailto:active4d-dev-bounces@...] On Behalf Of David Wright
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:26 PM
To: active4d-dev@...
Subject: Re: [Active4d-dev] Practical Session Limits

David

Obviously I don't know what the nature of your proposed site is, but  
on average I would not expect a very high proportion of users to be  
online simultaneously (ie, within the lifetime of a session item). We  
have sites with 10,000-plus users, and we encourage them to log in  
using reminder emails. We send all the emails in one burst, and even  
then our A4D-based system is comfortably within its capabilities. You  
could stagger reminders.

We tend to see the most sessions open when Google or someone is  
harvesting!

As far as I know the number of session items is not too significant,  
but you need to be sure that the amount of RAM they add up to is  
within your hardware's specification.

Bear in mind I'm not a great expert!

David Wright

On 15 Jun 2009, at 22:03, David Ringsmuth wrote:

> I've got a Client who wants to put up a web site that will server  
> 50,000 to
> 100,000 users.
>
> In the current architecture of A4Dv4.5r1 and 4D 04.7R3HF3 on Windows  
> Server
> 2003 SE SP2 on 2 CPU 2.66GHz with 1GB RAM, and a major high speed  
> internet
> connection.
>
> ..is it reasonable to say that A4D can responsively support 5000
> simultaneous user sessions where the users are editing their own  
> individual
> user records, A4D is written using FuseBox methods, the HTML uses an  
> IFrame
> to return the changed portion of the user experience, the other  
> elements
> reasonably optimized?
>
> If the answer is "YES", please show me a site that handles this kind  
> of
> volume so that I can tell my client, "Look here."

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[Peter Schumacher-2]

David,

talk with Alexander Heintz, he had a high volume site installed and  
running.

Am 16.06.2009 um 05:15 schrieb David Ringsmuth:

> I was trying to get a response for the Practical Session Limits in the
> environment I described.

Greetings,
[4D-Consulting.com]eK, Wiesbaden (Germany)
Peter Schumacher
--------------------------------------------------------
Web: http://www.4D-Consulting.com/
FreeCall:  0800-434 636 7
Tel.:      [phone] - Fax: [phone]
4D-Consulting.com eK - Scharnhorststr. 36 - 65195 Wiesbaden
Member of the German Developer Network  http://www.die4dwerkstatt.de









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[Mike Vogt]

David,
Our site www.willsub.com has a similar architecture as yours (same server
active 4d etc.), but we're still on 4D 2003.  We handled 742,000 individual
logins (which start a session) over the recent 180 day school year which
averages a little over 4100 logins per day.  These produced over 12 million
active4d requests in the same period.  I don't have specific peak numbers of
session count or memory demand, but it has never been a bottleneck.

HTH,
Sincerely,
Mike Vogt
Willsub Technical Support

> -----Original Message-----
> From: active4d-dev-bounces@...
> [mailto:active4d-dev-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
> David Ringsmuth
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 5:03 PM
>
> ..is it reasonable to say that A4D can responsively support
> 5000 simultaneous user sessions where the users are editing
> their own individual user records, A4D is written using
> FuseBox methods, the HTML uses an IFrame to return the
> changed portion of the user experience, the other elements
> reasonably optimized?
>
> If the answer is "YES", please show me a site that handles
> this kind of volume so that I can tell my client, "Look here."
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>

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[David Ringsmuth]

Peter!

Thanks.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: active4d-dev-bounces@...
[mailto:active4d-dev-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Peter
Schumacher
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:28 AM
To: active4d-dev@...
Subject: Re: [Active4d-dev] Practical Session Limits

David,

talk with Alexander Heintz, he had a high volume site installed and  
running.

Am 16.06.2009 um 05:15 schrieb David Ringsmuth:

> I was trying to get a response for the Practical Session Limits in the
> environment I described.

Greetings,
[4D-Consulting.com]eK, Wiesbaden (Germany)
Peter Schumacher
--------------------------------------------------------
Web: http://www.4D-Consulting.com/
FreeCall:  0800-434 636 7
Tel.:      [phone] - Fax: [phone]
4D-Consulting.com eK - Scharnhorststr. 36 - 65195 Wiesbaden
Member of the German Developer Network  http://www.die4dwerkstatt.de









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[David Ringsmuth]

Mike,

>From a "it can handle it without additional scalability concerns"
perspective, this helps me.

Thanks.

My issue seems to be very similar to the SQL Check Box of required
functionality for database servers. I need to be able to say, not only will
it work the way it is, but if it is truly required it has "scalability" --
Look here ->

David

-----Original Message-----
From: active4d-dev-bounces@...
[mailto:active4d-dev-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Mike Vogt
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 4:19 AM
To: active4d-dev@...
Subject: Re: [Active4d-dev] Practical Session Limits

David,
Our site www.willsub.com has a similar architecture as yours (same server
active 4d etc.), but we're still on 4D 2003.  We handled 742,000 individual
logins (which start a session) over the recent 180 day school year which
averages a little over 4100 logins per day.  These produced over 12 million
active4d requests in the same period.  I don't have specific peak numbers of
session count or memory demand, but it has never been a bottleneck.

HTH,
Sincerely,
Mike Vogt
Willsub Technical Support

> -----Original Message-----
> From: active4d-dev-bounces@...
> [mailto:active4d-dev-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
> David Ringsmuth
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 5:03 PM
>
> ..is it reasonable to say that A4D can responsively support
> 5000 simultaneous user sessions where the users are editing
> their own individual user records, A4D is written using
> FuseBox methods, the HTML uses an IFrame to return the
> changed portion of the user experience, the other elements
> reasonably optimized?
>
> If the answer is "YES", please show me a site that handles
> this kind of volume so that I can tell my client, "Look here."
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>

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