Python 3000 is coming?
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Python 3000 is coming?
by John-681
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Hi,
Does anyone know the issues that 3000 could cause? -- John Fabiani _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/200708311301.49371.jfabiani@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Ed Leafe
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On Aug 31, 2007, at 4:01 PM, johnf wrote:
> Does anyone know the issues that 3000 could cause? Well, the biggest for me is the way I debug, since there will be no more 'print' statement; instead, I'll have to get used to using the print() function. I don't know of any places in our code that use any of the functions that have been removed, but I hope to download the alpha soon just to find out. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/A5E94062-7D93-4738-9F6A-1CD5D2971B73@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Paul McNett
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Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Aug 31, 2007, at 4:01 PM, johnf wrote: > >> Does anyone know the issues that 3000 could cause? > > Well, the biggest for me is the way I debug, since there will be no > more 'print' statement; instead, I'll have to get used to using the > print() function. > > I don't know of any places in our code that use any of the functions > that have been removed, but I hope to download the alpha soon just to > find out. We'll get bitten by the change in unicode handling, for sure... -- pkm ~ http://paulmcnett.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/46D89751.3050201@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Ed Leafe
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On Aug 31, 2007, at 6:33 PM, Paul McNett wrote:
> We'll get bitten by the change in unicode handling, for sure... Yeah, but it will more of a "love bite". It's going to be so much nicer not to have a distinction between str and unicode. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/67E7F1B6-0504-4D8B-A1C5-9C9F69DDD589@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Paul McNett
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Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Aug 31, 2007, at 6:33 PM, Paul McNett wrote: > >> We'll get bitten by the change in unicode handling, for sure... > > Yeah, but it will more of a "love bite". It's going to be so much > nicer not to have a distinction between str and unicode. More like a "love byte". :) Agreed on it being nicer... however what kind of freaks me out is that I'm not seeing a way to have a common codebase for both 3.0 and 2.x. -- pkm ~ http://paulmcnett.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/46D899AC.7000106@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by John-681
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On Friday 31 August 2007 15:43, Paul McNett wrote:
> > Agreed on it being nicer... however what kind of freaks me out is that > I'm not seeing a way to have a common codebase for both 3.0 and 2.x. Yea, I was wondering how supporting two pythons would work. I just see the 2.5 version of Dabo reaching a "stable" point and development stopping (maybe bug fixes). I see the new DaboIDE on the other hand completely in 3000. -- John Fabiani _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/200708311611.51921.jfabiani@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Ed Leafe
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On Aug 31, 2007, at 6:43 PM, Paul McNett wrote:
> Agreed on it being nicer... however what kind of freaks me out is that > I'm not seeing a way to have a common codebase for both 3.0 and 2.x. Well, that's the whole idea of breaking backwards compatibility. Fortunately, we won't have to support it for a year or so. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/61C44CB0-5ED8-4207-B118-9F9C912361F4@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Ed Leafe
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On Aug 31, 2007, at 7:11 PM, johnf wrote:
> Yea, I was wondering how supporting two pythons would work. I just > see the > 2.5 version of Dabo reaching a "stable" point and development > stopping (maybe > bug fixes). I see the new DaboIDE on the other hand completely in > 3000. That would be tough, since the visual tools are written in Dabo! -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/8EF00397-F796-4F01-BACD-D3D97B3A2AA5@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by John-681
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On Friday 31 August 2007 19:12, Ed Leafe wrote:
> That would be tough, since the visual tools are written in Dabo! Let me re-state. I mean to say that the new IDE (including the Dabo framework that supports the IDE) should be built on python 3000. I don't recall what the time table is for the IDE but It's off aways. So why not build on the latest and greatest? -- John Fabiani _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/200708311942.00268.jfabiani@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Ed Leafe
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On Aug 31, 2007, at 10:42 PM, johnf wrote:
> I mean to say that the new IDE (including the Dabo framework that > supports the > IDE) should be built on python 3000. I don't recall what the time > table is > for the IDE but It's off aways. So why not build on the latest and > greatest? Well, we still support Python 2.3, even though 2.5 has been out for quite some time. I'm taking a wait-and-see approach. If 3.x turns out to be relatively glitch-free and momentum quickly moves in that direction, so will Dabo. If it has more than the expected number of bugs and problems, we'll probably stay with 2.x for the foreseeable future. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/6BCC908D-7A43-4AA6-A6C1-3C941574D132@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Uwe Grauer-5
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johnf wrote:
> On Friday 31 August 2007 15:43, Paul McNett wrote: >> Agreed on it being nicer... however what kind of freaks me out is that >> I'm not seeing a way to have a common codebase for both 3.0 and 2.x. > > Yea, I was wondering how supporting two pythons would work. I just see the > 2.5 version of Dabo reaching a "stable" point and development stopping (maybe > bug fixes). I see the new DaboIDE on the other hand completely in 3000. I wouldn't like a fast switch to python 3.0. Python version are very long living. So it would be wise to let python 3.x stable for a long time before switching to a new codebase for Dabo. Let's wait for something like python 3.1.x for the switch. Keep in mind that there are very much projects which still depend on python < 2.3. Uwe _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/46D91740.9090707@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Uwe Grauer-5
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Uwe Grauer wrote:
> johnf wrote: >> On Friday 31 August 2007 15:43, Paul McNett wrote: >>> Agreed on it being nicer... however what kind of freaks me out is that >>> I'm not seeing a way to have a common codebase for both 3.0 and 2.x. >> Yea, I was wondering how supporting two pythons would work. I just see the >> 2.5 version of Dabo reaching a "stable" point and development stopping (maybe >> bug fixes). I see the new DaboIDE on the other hand completely in 3000. > > I wouldn't like a fast switch to python 3.0. > Python version are very long living. > So it would be wise to let python 3.x stable for a long time > before switching to a new codebase for Dabo. > > Let's wait for something like python 3.1.x for the switch. > Keep in mind that there are very much projects which still depend > on python < 2.3. > > Uwe Seems like i was right with the above. >From the anouncement: [Bcc: python-list@...] The first Python 3000 release is out -- Python 3.0a1. Be the first one on your block to download it! http://python.org/download/releases/3.0/ Excerpts: Python 3000 (a.k.a. "Py3k", and released as Python 3.0) is a new version of the language that is incompatible with the 2.x line of releases. The language is mostly the same, but many details, especially how built-in objects like dictionaries and strings work, have changed considerably, and a lot of deprecated features have finally been removed. This is an ongoing project; the cleanup isn't expected to be complete until 2008. In particular there are plans to reorganize the standard library namespace. The release plan is to have a series of alpha releases in 2007, beta releases in 2008, and a final release in August 2008. The alpha releases are primarily aimed at developers who want a sneak peek at the new langauge, especially those folks who plan to port their code to Python 3000. The hope is that by the time of the final release, many 3rd party packages will already be available in a 3.0-compatible form. _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/46D95892.2050701@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Paul McNett
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johnf wrote:
> On Friday 31 August 2007 15:43, Paul McNett wrote: >> Agreed on it being nicer... however what kind of freaks me out is that >> I'm not seeing a way to have a common codebase for both 3.0 and 2.x. > > Yea, I was wondering how supporting two pythons would work. I just see the > 2.5 version of Dabo reaching a "stable" point and development stopping (maybe > bug fixes). I see the new DaboIDE on the other hand completely in 3000. The only reason development of Dabo would stop would be if we abandoned it. -- pkm ~ http://paulmcnett.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/46D97DE3.7050200@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by John-681
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On Saturday 01 September 2007 07:57, Paul McNett wrote:
> johnf wrote: > > On Friday 31 August 2007 15:43, Paul McNett wrote: > >> Agreed on it being nicer... however what kind of freaks me out is that > >> I'm not seeing a way to have a common codebase for both 3.0 and 2.x. > > > > Yea, I was wondering how supporting two pythons would work. I just see > > the 2.5 version of Dabo reaching a "stable" point and development > > stopping (maybe bug fixes). I see the new DaboIDE on the other hand > > completely in 3000. > > The only reason development of Dabo would stop would be if we abandoned it. stop. I meant that development would use python 3000. I don't see you and Ed maintaining two branchs (one for 2.5 and the other for 3000) for very long. -- John Fabiani _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/200709010818.24405.jfabiani@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Ed Leafe
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On Sep 1, 2007, at 11:18 AM, johnf wrote:
> Maybe you did not read my follow-up. I did NOT mean that > development would > stop. I meant that development would use python 3000. I don't see > you and > Ed maintaining two branchs (one for 2.5 and the other for 3000) > for very > long. I don't see that. Paul and I have already spoken about dropping 2.3 support as of 0.9, so that we can get rid of the conditional checks for Decimal, and also so that we can clean up a lot of our property code using decorator syntax. Point releases can break backwards compatibility, and so the current plan is to make Python 2.4 and wxPython 2.8 as the minimum requirements for Dabo 0.9. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/B0373C52-2138-41A5-A9CE-7BA4DE95C3DA@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by John-681
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On Saturday 01 September 2007 08:47, Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2007, at 11:18 AM, johnf wrote: > > Maybe you did not read my follow-up. I did NOT mean that > > development would > > stop. I meant that development would use python 3000. I don't see > > you and > > Ed maintaining two branchs (one for 2.5 and the other for 3000) > > for very > > long. > > I don't see that. Paul and I have already spoken about dropping 2.3 > support as of 0.9, so that we can get rid of the conditional checks > for Decimal, and also so that we can clean up a lot of our property > code using decorator syntax. Point releases can break backwards > compatibility, and so the current plan is to make Python 2.4 and > wxPython 2.8 as the minimum requirements for Dabo 0.9. > OK at some point release support for python 2.5 will be dropped. -- John Fabiani _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/200709010913.56735.jfabiani@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Uwe Grauer-5
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Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2007, at 11:18 AM, johnf wrote: > >> Maybe you did not read my follow-up. I did NOT mean that >> development would >> stop. I meant that development would use python 3000. I don't see >> you and >> Ed maintaining two branchs (one for 2.5 and the other for 3000) >> for very >> long. > > I don't see that. Paul and I have already spoken about dropping 2.3 > support as of 0.9, so that we can get rid of the conditional checks > for Decimal, and also so that we can clean up a lot of our property > code using decorator syntax. Point releases can break backwards > compatibility, and so the current plan is to make Python 2.4 and > wxPython 2.8 as the minimum requirements for Dabo 0.9. What does "we can get rid of the conditional checks for Decimal" mean to you? Please explain. Uwe _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/46D9C424.5090205@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Ed Leafe
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On Sep 1, 2007, at 3:57 PM, Uwe Grauer wrote:
> What does "we can get rid of the conditional checks for Decimal" > mean to you? > Please explain. The Decimal module became standard in Python 2.4; prior to that it was an optional addition. Any code in Dabo that uses the Decimal module has to first check if it can be imported, and if not, behave differently. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/F1B03F19-15BD-4E9F-AC93-91765852CB27@... |
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Re: Python 3000 is coming?
by Uwe Grauer-5
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Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2007, at 3:57 PM, Uwe Grauer wrote: > >> What does "we can get rid of the conditional checks for Decimal" >> mean to you? >> Please explain. > > The Decimal module became standard in Python 2.4; prior to that it > was an optional addition. Any code in Dabo that uses the Decimal > module has to first check if it can be imported, and if not, behave > differently. > Ok, thanks for explanation. No problem at all, if it still will behave differently regarding Decimal. :-) Uwe _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: Dabo-dev@... Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-dev Searchable Archives: http://leafe.com/archives/search/dabo-dev This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/dabo-dev/46D9C6E6.7030307@... |
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