RE: [mb-style] State of the Style Secretary

   -----Original Message-----
   From: musicbrainz-style-bounces@...
   [mailto:musicbrainz-style-bounces@...] On Behalf
   Of Don Redman
   Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:57 PM
   To: MusicBrainz style discussion
   Subject: Re: [mb-style] State of the Style Secretary
   
[Snip]
   
   What I wanted to do was to observe the discussion and
   summarize consensus.  

[Beth] Which you do very well at. Often times I have sat back and said. Wow,
that was a muddy mess clarified very nicely!
[/beth]

   The Checklist was intended as a guide for the community.
   Instead the checklist has suffocated discussions, people go
   through the chelist by themselves, present it to me and I
   have to make a decision. This is bullshit. It does not work.
   
[Beth] I think there is some confusion from the end user as to how the
checklist is to be summarized. Some people simply don't know the effect on
the community, or the amount of programming needed. They are not
programmers, or they haven't thought about the impact on the community.
Therefore it's a very open and diffictul to interpret thing for your
"novice" user to truly forge forth and say "this has said impact".
[/beth]

   So what to do now? I reall do not know. My great hope is
   that we can invent a new procedure for style issues that
   works more along the lines of fixing bugs and less along
   those of discussing things to death or a controlling secretary.
   
   I am prepared to put a lot of work into this but please do
   not lean back and watch Don struggle. Please, if I start to
   do things in a certain way, do not assume that now I (or any
   other secretary) will have to do them until the end of time.
   Instead, if it has worked, do it yourself next time. Please
   tread in my footsteps if it makes sense and take new paths
   if it does not.
   
   I think it still makes sense to tackle one style issue at a
   time. I think we should start with Luks' arrangement
   proposal (or rather close it). And here already, I have to
   point out that I do not claim to be the one who decides
   which comes next. Make your proposals and discuss this!
   
   I like Stefan's proposal of quick chat sessions, especially
   if combined with editing on test.

[Beth] The one problem I see with the chat session is the conflict of time
schedules for people in differing countries. I don't believe I mentioned
that before due to lack of cultural knowledge of the main style people. In
fact, I may be stepping on toes by responding here. Often times I've felt I
shouldn't comment on style issues, due to being new. So, if that's the
case.. By all means, just ignore the letter and maybe drop me a personal
note to "butt out". :D
[/beth]
   
   I think the checklist still is helpful, but only if it
   guides public debate on mb-style.
   
   Consensus should still be the thing that makes a style change pass.  
   Remember that I cannot create consensus. I can only observe
   that there is consensus or not. The OK from the secretary is
   there to prevent that someone claims that there is consensus
   just because people have ceased to object out of fatigue. That's all.
   
   So if you seek out consensus about a style issue, do so on
   mb-style and address everybody here.
   
   I think the tickets on trac are helpful to tackle style
   issues one after the other in order of importance, but they
   can never replace lively debate here.
   
      DonRedman
   
   
   
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