« Return to Thread: Advocating for Grails over Seam in an EJB3 landscape
RE: Advocating for Grails over Seam in an EJB3 landscape
by Bob Brown-3
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I used Seam (1.x) a while back...I found that some if its features (like
@DataModel/@DataModelSelection) were interesting but came up short in
practise...essentially, as soon as one stepped outside its prescribed limits
(such as trying to do master-detail stuff), it was like not having anything
there at all: you had to go back to doing everything by hand. I ended up
saying "so what exactly did Seam contribute?"
I didn't really see 'outjection' as useful...plain spring-style DI is more
useful, practically speaking...and outjection doesn't appear in the WebBeans
'standard'.
This has a few more comments:
http://gusiev.com/2009/05/jboss-seam-usage-makes-the-application-code-crazy/
I REALLY like what they are trying to do, but Seam didn't 'click; with me.
Also: not uniquely Seam, but JSF/facelets and therefore relevant...I have
been bitten by this:
http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Projects/FaceletsFAQ#I_m_getting_Duplicate_ID_
Errors
PAINFUL!
It hit so hard that we had to throw away the whole view layer (80%
complete): The UI design had tabs where each tab came from a different URL.
JSF/Facelets got so messed up that we couldn't continue...there was just NO
WAY to prevent duplicate Ids from being allocated and throwing up errors. I
won't be voluntarily using JSF in a hurry again, I can tell you!
Note that there is no fix to this issue...effectively: if it bites you,
you're dead.
Again: I like the idea, but the implementation didn't cut it.
HTH.
BOB
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Young [mailto:ejy@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2009 5:50 AM
> To: user@...
> Subject: [grails-user] Advocating for Grails over Seam in an EJB3
> landscape
>
> I'm on a project where we are considering which web framework to use
> for a system that has a nascent EJB3 persistance landscape in
> development. Tomorrow (July 1) we will have a discussion about which is
> the best framework for our project.
>
> Seam is the competing framework and no surprise, there are strongly
> held opinions, some more valid than others. Interestingly there is no
> one at our shop with any real Seam experience, but it is non the less
> favored by some anyway.
>
> The main issue seems to be that there is a EJB3 persistance model being
> developed and the argument is that Grails will have to circumvent the
> EJB3 technology while Seam is designed around EJB3, and JPA.
>
> I have alot of Grails experience, but all of it greenfield db
> development. No legacy mapping, and no EJB3. I wonder how much of an
> issue this is in reality. Trust me, I'm scrambling to learn all I can
> asap.
>
> I see that there is some coverage in DGG chapter 17 "Legacy Integration
> with Hibernate":EJB 3 Compliant Mapping and I plan on looking into this
> to diffuse that argument, hopefully. Can anyone point me to any other
> resources for this kind of issue?
>
> So, is the EJB3 deal breaker in favor of Seam?
>
> Also, it may be argued that Grails does not have mature JPA support?
> Can anyone speak to this issue?
>
> Also, what other points can there made to argue for Grails over Seam in
> this instance?
>
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@DataModel/@DataModelSelection) were interesting but came up short in
practise...essentially, as soon as one stepped outside its prescribed limits
(such as trying to do master-detail stuff), it was like not having anything
there at all: you had to go back to doing everything by hand. I ended up
saying "so what exactly did Seam contribute?"
I didn't really see 'outjection' as useful...plain spring-style DI is more
useful, practically speaking...and outjection doesn't appear in the WebBeans
'standard'.
This has a few more comments:
http://gusiev.com/2009/05/jboss-seam-usage-makes-the-application-code-crazy/
I REALLY like what they are trying to do, but Seam didn't 'click; with me.
Also: not uniquely Seam, but JSF/facelets and therefore relevant...I have
been bitten by this:
http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Projects/FaceletsFAQ#I_m_getting_Duplicate_ID_
Errors
PAINFUL!
It hit so hard that we had to throw away the whole view layer (80%
complete): The UI design had tabs where each tab came from a different URL.
JSF/Facelets got so messed up that we couldn't continue...there was just NO
WAY to prevent duplicate Ids from being allocated and throwing up errors. I
won't be voluntarily using JSF in a hurry again, I can tell you!
Note that there is no fix to this issue...effectively: if it bites you,
you're dead.
Again: I like the idea, but the implementation didn't cut it.
HTH.
BOB
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Young [mailto:ejy@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2009 5:50 AM
> To: user@...
> Subject: [grails-user] Advocating for Grails over Seam in an EJB3
> landscape
>
> I'm on a project where we are considering which web framework to use
> for a system that has a nascent EJB3 persistance landscape in
> development. Tomorrow (July 1) we will have a discussion about which is
> the best framework for our project.
>
> Seam is the competing framework and no surprise, there are strongly
> held opinions, some more valid than others. Interestingly there is no
> one at our shop with any real Seam experience, but it is non the less
> favored by some anyway.
>
> The main issue seems to be that there is a EJB3 persistance model being
> developed and the argument is that Grails will have to circumvent the
> EJB3 technology while Seam is designed around EJB3, and JPA.
>
> I have alot of Grails experience, but all of it greenfield db
> development. No legacy mapping, and no EJB3. I wonder how much of an
> issue this is in reality. Trust me, I'm scrambling to learn all I can
> asap.
>
> I see that there is some coverage in DGG chapter 17 "Legacy Integration
> with Hibernate":EJB 3 Compliant Mapping and I plan on looking into this
> to diffuse that argument, hopefully. Can anyone point me to any other
> resources for this kind of issue?
>
> So, is the EJB3 deal breaker in favor of Seam?
>
> Also, it may be argued that Grails does not have mature JPA support?
> Can anyone speak to this issue?
>
> Also, what other points can there made to argue for Grails over Seam in
> this instance?
>
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http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
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