Rails 2.1.0 or 2.1.1 for NetBeans 6.5

[Chris Kutler]

Hi,

I just want to verify that NetBeans Ruby 6.5 will be bundled with Rails
2.1.0 and not 2.1.1, which came out 9/4

Chris

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[Tor Norbye]

On Sep 29, 2008, at 11:35 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just want to verify that NetBeans Ruby 6.5 will be bundled with  
> Rails 2.1.0 and not 2.1.1, which came out 9/4

I already upgraded us to 2.1.1  ( http://hg.netbeans.org/main/rev/da9d165de790 
  )

2.1.1 is just a bugfix release over 2.1.0, including an important  
security bug fix, which is why I made the upgrade.  I hope this  
doesn't cause problems for anyone. There should be no feature changes  
or incompatibility that should require updating of descriptions.

-- Tor


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[Chris Kutler]

This has a doc impact, I am glad I thought to ask. I had checked the
recent changes and it wasn't mentioned. (and my last dev build installed
still had 2.1.0). I will make the changes in the book and tutorials. I
am hoping that it is just a version number change and the tutorials are
otherwise unchanged.

Tor Norbye wrote:

> On Sep 29, 2008, at 11:35 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just want to verify that NetBeans Ruby 6.5 will be bundled with
>> Rails 2.1.0 and not 2.1.1, which came out 9/4
>
> I already upgraded us to 2.1.1  (
> http://hg.netbeans.org/main/rev/da9d165de790 )
>
> 2.1.1 is just a bugfix release over 2.1.0, including an important
> security bug fix, which is why I made the upgrade.  I hope this
> doesn't cause problems for anyone. There should be no feature changes
> or incompatibility that should require updating of descriptions.
>
> -- Tor
>
>
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[Nick Sieger-2]

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Tor Norbye <tor.norbye@...> wrote:

> On Sep 29, 2008, at 11:35 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just want to verify that NetBeans Ruby 6.5 will be bundled with Rails
>> 2.1.0 and not 2.1.1, which came out 9/4
>
> I already upgraded us to 2.1.1  (
> http://hg.netbeans.org/main/rev/da9d165de790 )
>
> 2.1.1 is just a bugfix release over 2.1.0, including an important security
> bug fix, which is why I made the upgrade.  I hope this doesn't cause
> problems for anyone. There should be no feature changes or incompatibility
> that should require updating of descriptions.

Just a word of warning that 2.1.1 introduced code that breaks Rails
when running on JRuby (because JRuby runs with ObjectSpace off by
default for performance).

http://github.com/rails/rails/commit/6c970d79a064b953d3d9555a362a1ad1e0058d1c

We haven't yet decided on a course of action. I need to submit a patch
to Rails core, and we'll probably supply an equivalent fix in JRuby,
but neither have had a release since then. I'm not necessarily
suggesting you back out the change; I don't have a good answer right
now.

/Nick

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[Chris Kutler]

Do we have an idea of when we will know? I have just a very short window (between now and the 16th) left for the docs and correct wording is essential. If we do not know if we can make a decision by then it will be harder to add the wiggle words to the tutorials and book.

Here are some attempts. Please advise.

Note   The Rails version that is bundled with JRuby (2.1.1) is not compatible with JRuby. You must either upgrade to a patch, if one is available, or you must uninstall Rails 2.1.1 and install Rails 2.1.0.

or

Note   The JRuby and Rails bundle includes Rails 2.1.0. As of the time of this writing, Rails 2.1.1 is not compatible with JRuby. You should not upgrade the Rails gem until this is fixed.

Where do they go to learn if a patch is available?

Nick Sieger wrote:

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Tor Norbye tor.norbye@... wrote:
  

On Sep 29, 2008, at 11:35 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:

    

Hi,

I just want to verify that NetBeans Ruby 6.5 will be bundled with Rails
2.1.0 and not 2.1.1, which came out 9/4
      

I already upgraded us to 2.1.1  (
http://hg.netbeans.org/main/rev/da9d165de790 )

2.1.1 is just a bugfix release over 2.1.0, including an important security
bug fix, which is why I made the upgrade.  I hope this doesn't cause
problems for anyone. There should be no feature changes or incompatibility
that should require updating of descriptions.
    

Just a word of warning that 2.1.1 introduced code that breaks Rails
when running on JRuby (because JRuby runs with ObjectSpace off by
default for performance).

http://github.com/rails/rails/commit/6c970d79a064b953d3d9555a362a1ad1e0058d1c

We haven't yet decided on a course of action. I need to submit a patch
to Rails core, and we'll probably supply an equivalent fix in JRuby,
but neither have had a release since then. I'm not necessarily
suggesting you back out the change; I don't have a good answer right
now.

/Nick

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[Tor Norbye]

On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:28 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:

> Do we have an idea of when we will know? I have just a very short  
> window (between now and the 16th) left for the docs and correct  
> wording is essential. If we do not know if we can make a decision by  
> then it will be harder to add the wiggle words to the tutorials and  
> book.
>
> Here are some attempts. Please advise.
>
> Note   The Rails version that is bundled with JRuby (2.1.1) is not  
> compatible with JRuby. You must either upgrade to a patch, if one is  
> available, or you must uninstall Rails 2.1.1 and install Rails 2.1.0.

I think it would be best to leave out specific version numbers in the  
documentation. It's the kind of thing that can change for example via  
auto update patches. Dot dot releases contain bug fixes so (especially  
when there are security bugs) we may choose to bundle those.  Can you  
say "2.1" or "2.1.x" instead? We won't upgrade from say 2.1 to 2.2,  
but upgrading from 2.1.1 to 2.1.2 to 2.1.3 to 2.1.4 is a possibility.

> Note   The JRuby and Rails bundle includes Rails 2.1.0. As of the  
> time of this writing, Rails 2.1.1 is not compatible with JRuby. You  
> should not upgrade the Rails gem until this is fixed.

I'm pretty surprised this happened. I did some heartbeat tests on  
Rails projects with 2.1.1 and didn't see a problem but I suppose the  
issue is more subtle.

In any case, I just IM'ed with some of the JRuby developers and it  
doesn't sound like this is something which can get resolved in the  
next couple of days, so I'm going to revert us back to 2.1.0 for now.

However, ... we're already pushing people towards updating Rails (for  
example, in the New Rails wizard it will tell you if your Rails is out  
of date). If these versions are indeed incompatible, it would be good  
if we somehow alerted people to this.

Erno, how hard would it be to add some logic in a few places to detect  
that if you're using JRuby, updating Rails (to 2.1.1, not say 2.1.2  
when that is released), give some kind of a warning message with a URL  
pointing to the relevant issue, or perhaps our own wiki page  
describing the problem?

-- Tor


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[Chris Kutler]

Tor,

Yes, I can use 2.1, but I have to disagree with you about leaving
version numbers out of the docs or being ambiguous. If the Rails
2.1.1/JRuby problem is not resolved before the tutorials are released,
and this combination is not going to work, and I don't tell the users,
then I am going to have to deal with a lot of complaints. There is a
feed back button at the bottom of the tutorials and people use them.

At first I did not put Rails versions in the tutorials and I got tons of
emails complaining that the tutorials were not working for them. Now I
specifically state which Rails version the tutorial is written for. Even
then I get a couple of emails a week complaining that the tutorial isn't
working, only to find out they are using a different Rails version. Even
the bump from 2.0 to 2.1 breaks the getting started tutorial.

What might be helpful is to better understand the bug. Perhaps this bug
is just a corner case that most NetBeans Ruby users will not encounter.
Can someone explain to me when and how one runs into this bug? How badly
is this broken?





Tor Norbye wrote:

> On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:28 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:
>
>> Do we have an idea of when we will know? I have just a very short
>> window (between now and the 16th) left for the docs and correct
>> wording is essential. If we do not know if we can make a decision by
>> then it will be harder to add the wiggle words to the tutorials and
>> book.
>>
>> Here are some attempts. Please advise.
>>
>> Note   The Rails version that is bundled with JRuby (2.1.1) is not
>> compatible with JRuby. You must either upgrade to a patch, if one is
>> available, or you must uninstall Rails 2.1.1 and install Rails 2.1.0.
>
> I think it would be best to leave out specific version numbers in the
> documentation. It's the kind of thing that can change for example via
> auto update patches. Dot dot releases contain bug fixes so (especially
> when there are security bugs) we may choose to bundle those.  Can you
> say "2.1" or "2.1.x" instead? We won't upgrade from say 2.1 to 2.2,
> but upgrading from 2.1.1 to 2.1.2 to 2.1.3 to 2.1.4 is a possibility.
>
>> Note   The JRuby and Rails bundle includes Rails 2.1.0. As of the
>> time of this writing, Rails 2.1.1 is not compatible with JRuby. You
>> should not upgrade the Rails gem until this is fixed.
>
> I'm pretty surprised this happened. I did some heartbeat tests on
> Rails projects with 2.1.1 and didn't see a problem but I suppose the
> issue is more subtle.
>
> In any case, I just IM'ed with some of the JRuby developers and it
> doesn't sound like this is something which can get resolved in the
> next couple of days, so I'm going to revert us back to 2.1.0 for now.
>
> However, ... we're already pushing people towards updating Rails (for
> example, in the New Rails wizard it will tell you if your Rails is out
> of date). If these versions are indeed incompatible, it would be good
> if we somehow alerted people to this.
>
> Erno, how hard would it be to add some logic in a few places to detect
> that if you're using JRuby, updating Rails (to 2.1.1, not say 2.1.2
> when that is released), give some kind of a warning message with a URL
> pointing to the relevant issue, or perhaps our own wiki page
> describing the problem?
>
> -- Tor
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@...
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[Chris Kutler]

My apologies. I did not scroll down to see the other stuff that you
wrote. So, thanks for the input and answers.

Chris Kutler wrote:

>
>>
>> I'm pretty surprised this happened. I did some heartbeat tests on
>> Rails projects with 2.1.1 and didn't see a problem but I suppose the
>> issue is more subtle.
>>
>> In any case, I just IM'ed with some of the JRuby developers and it
>> doesn't sound like this is something which can get resolved in the
>> next couple of days, so I'm going to revert us back to 2.1.0 for now.
>>
>> However, ... we're already pushing people towards updating Rails (for
>> example, in the New Rails wizard it will tell you if your Rails is
>> out of date). If these versions are indeed incompatible, it would be
>> good if we somehow alerted people to this.
>>
>> Erno, how hard would it be to add some logic in a few places to
>> detect that if you're using JRuby, updating Rails (to 2.1.1, not say
>> 2.1.2 when that is released), give some kind of a warning message
>> with a URL pointing to the relevant issue, or perhaps our own wiki
>> page describing the problem?
>>
>> -- Tor
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@...
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[Tor Norbye]

On Oct 1, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:

> Tor,
>
> Yes, I can use 2.1, but I have to disagree with you about leaving  
> version numbers out of the docs or being ambiguous. If the Rails  
> 2.1.1/JRuby problem is not resolved before the tutorials are  
> released, and this combination is not going to work, and I don't  
> tell the users, then I am going to have to deal with a lot of  
> complaints. There is a feed back button at the bottom of the  
> tutorials and people use them.
>
> At first I did not put Rails versions in the tutorials and I got  
> tons of emails complaining that the tutorials were not working for  
> them. Now I specifically state which Rails version the tutorial is  
> written for. Even then I get a couple of emails a week complaining  
> that the tutorial isn't working, only to find out they are using a  
> different Rails version. Even the bump from 2.0 to 2.1 breaks the  
> getting started tutorial.

Just to clarify -- version 2.0 to 2.1 is a big deal - dot releases do  
change features.  Dot dot releases, e.g. 2.0.0 to 2.0.1, those are  
supposed to be only bug fixes. So I'm saying you -should- include the  
version number, but probably only to the first decimal digit, e.g. 2.0  
or 2.1, since the micro number can change as we upgrade bugs.

 From what I understand, in Rails 2.1.1 they accidentally used a Ruby  
feature which cannot be supported in JRuby. I believe it has been  
changed back, but this won't be released until 2.1.2, which probably  
won't happen in the next couple of days, so I think our only course of  
action for 6.5 is to go back to 2.1.0.  But we also have to worry  
about people upgrading Rails themselves, so it would be good if we  
could give them some automatic help, for example in the platform  
manager (if it detects you are using JRuby, and Rails version ==  
2.1.1, then print out some kind of warning message somewhere.

-- Tor


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[Chris Kutler]

Thanks for the clarification. Again, my apologies for not reading your
full response the first time.

Tor Norbye wrote:

> On Oct 1, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:
>
>> Tor,
>>
>> Yes, I can use 2.1, but I have to disagree with you about leaving
>> version numbers out of the docs or being ambiguous. If the Rails
>> 2.1.1/JRuby problem is not resolved before the tutorials are
>> released, and this combination is not going to work, and I don't tell
>> the users, then I am going to have to deal with a lot of complaints.
>> There is a feed back button at the bottom of the tutorials and people
>> use them.
>>
>> At first I did not put Rails versions in the tutorials and I got tons
>> of emails complaining that the tutorials were not working for them.
>> Now I specifically state which Rails version the tutorial is written
>> for. Even then I get a couple of emails a week complaining that the
>> tutorial isn't working, only to find out they are using a different
>> Rails version. Even the bump from 2.0 to 2.1 breaks the getting
>> started tutorial.
>
> Just to clarify -- version 2.0 to 2.1 is a big deal - dot releases do
> change features.  Dot dot releases, e.g. 2.0.0 to 2.0.1, those are
> supposed to be only bug fixes. So I'm saying you -should- include the
> version number, but probably only to the first decimal digit, e.g. 2.0
> or 2.1, since the micro number can change as we upgrade bugs.
>
> From what I understand, in Rails 2.1.1 they accidentally used a Ruby
> feature which cannot be supported in JRuby. I believe it has been
> changed back, but this won't be released until 2.1.2, which probably
> won't happen in the next couple of days, so I think our only course of
> action for 6.5 is to go back to 2.1.0.  But we also have to worry
> about people upgrading Rails themselves, so it would be good if we
> could give them some automatic help, for example in the platform
> manager (if it detects you are using JRuby, and Rails version ==
> 2.1.1, then print out some kind of warning message somewhere.
>
> -- Tor
>
>
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[Tor Norbye]

Ok, we're back to Rails 2.1.0 (changeset 4b480efccf14). If Rails 2.1.2  
comes out in the next couple of days (I've seen some e-mails seeing if  
it can be expedited) then I'll bring it up on this alias to see what  
we should do.

-- Tor

On Oct 1, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:

> Thanks for the clarification. Again, my apologies for not reading  
> your full response the first time.
>
> Tor Norbye wrote:
>> On Oct 1, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Chris Kutler wrote:
>>
>>> Tor,
>>>
>>> Yes, I can use 2.1, but I have to disagree with you about leaving  
>>> version numbers out of the docs or being ambiguous. If the Rails  
>>> 2.1.1/JRuby problem is not resolved before the tutorials are  
>>> released, and this combination is not going to work, and I don't  
>>> tell the users, then I am going to have to deal with a lot of  
>>> complaints. There is a feed back button at the bottom of the  
>>> tutorials and people use them.
>>>
>>> At first I did not put Rails versions in the tutorials and I got  
>>> tons of emails complaining that the tutorials were not working for  
>>> them. Now I specifically state which Rails version the tutorial is  
>>> written for. Even then I get a couple of emails a week complaining  
>>> that the tutorial isn't working, only to find out they are using a  
>>> different Rails version. Even the bump from 2.0 to 2.1 breaks the  
>>> getting started tutorial.
>>
>> Just to clarify -- version 2.0 to 2.1 is a big deal - dot releases  
>> do change features.  Dot dot releases, e.g. 2.0.0 to 2.0.1, those  
>> are supposed to be only bug fixes. So I'm saying you -should-  
>> include the version number, but probably only to the first decimal  
>> digit, e.g. 2.0 or 2.1, since the micro number can change as we  
>> upgrade bugs.
>>
>> From what I understand, in Rails 2.1.1 they accidentally used a  
>> Ruby feature which cannot be supported in JRuby. I believe it has  
>> been changed back, but this won't be released until 2.1.2, which  
>> probably won't happen in the next couple of days, so I think our  
>> only course of action for 6.5 is to go back to 2.1.0.  But we also  
>> have to worry about people upgrading Rails themselves, so it would  
>> be good if we could give them some automatic help, for example in  
>> the platform manager (if it detects you are using JRuby, and Rails  
>> version == 2.1.1, then print out some kind of warning message  
>> somewhere.
>>
>> -- Tor
>>
>>
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>
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[Erno Mononen]

Tor Norbye wrote:

> [..]
> However, ... we're already pushing people towards updating Rails (for
> example, in the New Rails wizard it will tell you if your Rails is out
> of date). If these versions are indeed incompatible, it would be good
> if we somehow alerted people to this.
>
> Erno, how hard would it be to add some logic in a few places to detect
> that if you're using JRuby, updating Rails (to 2.1.1, not say 2.1.2
> when that is released), give some kind of a warning message with a URL
> pointing to the relevant issue, or perhaps our own wiki page
> describing the problem?

It is quite easy to check in the new Rails project wizard, probably also
in the gem manager, but I'll talk to Martin before implementing it
there. I have a patch ready for the project wizard, but will need check
first whether it is still okay to push it to the main.

Erno



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