Randomized gradient

[Ken-99]

Does anybody know of a plugin that will let me create a randomized
gradient? And by that I mean a random number of segments and random
placement of all the end and mid points, and random colors and alpha.

I am using Gimp 2.2

Thanks.

[Greg Ackerson]

> Does anybody know of a plugin that will let me create a randomized
> gradient? And by that I mean a random number of segments and random
> placement of all the end and mid points, and random colors and alpha.

I'd guess to make a Filter -> Render -> Clouds -> Plasma, and then take a
1-pixel-wide column from it, then scale it as wide as you need the gradient to
be... then apply it wherever you need the gradient.

Example: http://supersilly.com/~greg/images/random_gradient.jpg

No idea about alpha, though...

--GAck

[Ken-99]

--- In gimpwin-users@..., Greg Ackerson <greg@...> wrote:
>
> > Does anybody know of a plugin that will let me create a randomized
> > gradient? And by that I mean a random number of segments and random
> > placement of all the end and mid points, and random colors and alpha.
>
> I'd guess to make a Filter -> Render -> Clouds -> Plasma, and then
take a
> 1-pixel-wide column from it, then scale it as wide as you need the
gradient to
> be... then apply it wherever you need the gradient.
>
> Example: http://supersilly.com/~greg/images/random_gradient.jpg
>
> No idea about alpha, though...
>
> --GAck
>

This isn't what I mean. How would the gradient tool use this. I want
random gradients for the gradient tool. I guess I wasn't as clear
before as I thought I was. It sure seems like there should be a plugin
or script-fu thingy out there somewhere that will do this.

Thanks.
--Ken

[Alec Burgess]

  "Ken" <kenba_nistu@...> said on May 20, 2008 22:01 -0400 (in part):

>> I'd guess to make a Filter -> Render -> Clouds -> Plasma, and then
>>    
> take a
>  
>> > 1-pixel-wide column from it, then scale it as wide as you need the
>>    
> gradient to
>  
>> > be... then apply it wherever you need the gradient.
>> >
>> > Example: http://supersilly.com/~greg/images/random_gradient.jpg
>> >
>> > No idea about alpha, though...
>> >
>> > --GAck
>> >
>>    
>
> This isn't what I mean. How would the gradient tool use this. I want
> random gradients for the gradient tool. I guess I wasn't as clear
> before as I thought I was. It sure seems like there should be a plugin
> or script-fu thingy out there somewhere that will do this.

I followed Greg's suggestion too: use Filter -> Render -> Clouds ->
Plasma then take a 1-pixel strip and resize till it fills the entire
image. After looking at how the Gimp-Gradients tool works I realized
that I couldn't see any way to take this strip and turn it into a
gradient (so it could be applied to arbitrary images) with support for
the options that gradient tools supports - select a Mode, Opacity, Shape
and Repeat, Dithering-ON/OFF, Adaptive Supersampling-ON/OFF.

The first two (Mode+Opacity) can be handled by creating a layer
containing the resized 1=pixel strip but I can't see any way to handle
the remaining ones?

Looking at a GGR file it appears to be just a text file with a variable
number of lines of info.
eg. here are the contents of Abstract_1.ggr
It contains 13 columns of info per entry and appears to be suitable for
manipulation in a spreadsheet etc. if I knew what the contents of each
column are supposed to represent.

    * GIMP Gradient
    * Name: Abstract 1
    * 6
    * 0.000000 0.286311 0.572621 0.269543 0.259267 1.000000 1.000000
      0.215635 0.407414 0.984953 1.000000 0 0
    * 0.572621 0.657763 0.716194 0.215635 0.407414 0.984953 1.000000
      0.040368 0.833333 0.619375 1.000000 0 0
    * 0.716194 0.734558 0.749583 0.040368 0.833333 0.619375 1.000000
      0.680490 0.355264 0.977430 1.000000 0 0
    * 0.749583 0.784641 0.824708 0.680490 0.355264 0.977430 1.000000
      0.553909 0.351853 0.977430 1.000000 0 0
    * 0.824708 0.853088 0.876461 0.553909 0.351853 0.977430 1.000000
      1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000 0 0
    * 0.876461 0.943172 1.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000
      1.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 0 0


Can any one point to documentation somewhere?
Later ... Goggle is my friend <GRIN> searching for: gimp+ggr+format
turns up (as #1 hit of 21,300) this blog entry:
http://raikardesigns.blogspot.com/ which has a link to this explanation:
http://rockraikar.googlepages.com/gimpGGRformat.txt :

    * GIMP Gradient
    * Name: My Grad
    * 2
    * 0.000000 0.250000 0.500000 1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
      0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 3 0 0 0
    * 0.500000 0.750000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000
      0.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000 4 0 0 0
    * ------------------------------------------------------
    * First line says it is a gimp gradient file.
    * Second line gives your Gradient a suitable name.
    * Third line tells the number of segments in the gradient.
    * Each line following defines the property of each segment in
      following order.
    *  1. [position of left stoppoint]
    *  2. [pos. of middle point]
    *  3. [pos. of right stoppoint]
    *  4. [R for left stoppoint]
    *  5. [G for left stoppoint]
    *  6. [B for left stoppoint]
    *  7. [R for right stoppoint]
    *  8. [G for right stoppoint]
    *  9. [B for right stoppoint]
    * 10. [Blending function constant]
    * 11. [Blending function  constant]
    * 12. [Blending function constant]
    * 13. [Blending function constant]

So it looks to create a "Random" gradient all you have to do is choose
for each line values for 1,2,3 so that line-1-column-1 is 0.0,
line-last-column-3 is 1.0 with the values columns 1,2,3 increasing in
each line.

Then choose random values for colors in columns 4-9 and blending
function columns 10-13.
For a complicated one (46 lines) look at "Flare Glow Angular 1"
Comparing data shown in text editor with values shown in the Gimp
Gradient editor it appears to me that the names for columns 7-9 above
are incorrect (s/b HSV values(?)). Two of the "Blending function
constants" are probably Luminance and Opacity. That leaves the two
integers (12-13) unexplained. Most GGR files have values 0,0 though I
spotted some with small integer values between 1 and 5.

Ken - does that give you enough to make a start? Please post back with
any results etc. (I haven't tried to create any yet myself but will
attempt it "real soon now"). If I knew how to use script-fu it also
sounds like a "natural" for it.

(Will be Reposting to Flickr-Gimp Users group.)

Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
--



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ken-99]

> I followed Greg's suggestion too: use Filter -> Render -> Clouds ->
> Plasma then take a 1-pixel strip and resize till it fills the entire
> image. After looking at how the Gimp-Gradients tool works I realized
> that I couldn't see any way to take this strip and turn it into a
> gradient (so it could be applied to arbitrary images) with support for
> the options that gradient tools supports - select a Mode, Opacity,
Shape

> and Repeat, Dithering-ON/OFF, Adaptive Supersampling-ON/OFF.
>
> The first two (Mode+Opacity) can be handled by creating a layer
> containing the resized 1=pixel strip but I can't see any way to handle
> the remaining ones?
>
> Looking at a GGR file it appears to be just a text file with a variable
> number of lines of info.
> eg. here are the contents of Abstract_1.ggr
> It contains 13 columns of info per entry and appears to be suitable for
> manipulation in a spreadsheet etc. if I knew what the contents of each
> column are supposed to represent.
>
>     * GIMP Gradient
>     * Name: Abstract 1
>     * 6
>     * 0.000000 0.286311 0.572621 0.269543 0.259267 1.000000 1.000000
>       0.215635 0.407414 0.984953 1.000000 0 0
>     * 0.572621 0.657763 0.716194 0.215635 0.407414 0.984953 1.000000
>       0.040368 0.833333 0.619375 1.000000 0 0
>     * 0.716194 0.734558 0.749583 0.040368 0.833333 0.619375 1.000000
>       0.680490 0.355264 0.977430 1.000000 0 0
>     * 0.749583 0.784641 0.824708 0.680490 0.355264 0.977430 1.000000
>       0.553909 0.351853 0.977430 1.000000 0 0
>     * 0.824708 0.853088 0.876461 0.553909 0.351853 0.977430 1.000000
>       1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000 0 0
>     * 0.876461 0.943172 1.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000
>       1.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 0 0
>
>
> Can any one point to documentation somewhere?
> Later ... Goggle is my friend <GRIN> searching for: gimp+ggr+format
> turns up (as #1 hit of 21,300) this blog entry:
> http://raikardesigns.blogspot.com/ which has a link to this

explanation:

> http://rockraikar.googlepages.com/gimpGGRformat.txt :
>
>     * GIMP Gradient
>     * Name: My Grad
>     * 2
>     * 0.000000 0.250000 0.500000 1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
>       0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 3 0 0 0
>     * 0.500000 0.750000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000
>       0.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000 4 0 0 0
>     * ------------------------------------------------------
>     * First line says it is a gimp gradient file.
>     * Second line gives your Gradient a suitable name.
>     * Third line tells the number of segments in the gradient.
>     * Each line following defines the property of each segment in
>       following order.
>     *  1. [position of left stoppoint]
>     *  2. [pos. of middle point]
>     *  3. [pos. of right stoppoint]
>     *  4. [R for left stoppoint]
>     *  5. [G for left stoppoint]
>     *  6. [B for left stoppoint]
>     *  7. [R for right stoppoint]
>     *  8. [G for right stoppoint]
>     *  9. [B for right stoppoint]
>     * 10. [Blending function constant]
>     * 11. [Blending function  constant]
>     * 12. [Blending function constant]
>     * 13. [Blending function constant]
>
> So it looks to create a "Random" gradient all you have to do is choose
> for each line values for 1,2,3 so that line-1-column-1 is 0.0,
> line-last-column-3 is 1.0 with the values columns 1,2,3 increasing in
> each line.
>
> Then choose random values for colors in columns 4-9 and blending
> function columns 10-13.
> For a complicated one (46 lines) look at "Flare Glow Angular 1"
> Comparing data shown in text editor with values shown in the Gimp
> Gradient editor it appears to me that the names for columns 7-9 above
> are incorrect (s/b HSV values(?)). Two of the "Blending function
> constants" are probably Luminance and Opacity. That leaves the two
> integers (12-13) unexplained. Most GGR files have values 0,0 though I
> spotted some with small integer values between 1 and 5.
>
> Ken - does that give you enough to make a start? Please post back with
> any results etc. (I haven't tried to create any yet myself but will
> attempt it "real soon now"). If I knew how to use script-fu it also
> sounds like a "natural" for it.
>
> (Will be Reposting to Flickr-Gimp Users group.)
>
> Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
> --
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

This looks promising, but I will need to look it over some more.
I don't know what "Blending function constant" means, and alpha has to
be in there somewhere too.

But this is a start, and it is more than I knew before.
--Ken

 

[Alec Burgess]

  "Ken" <kenba_nistu@...> said on May 22, 2008 0:54 -0400 (in part):
>> Alec: Can any one point to documentation somewhere?
>> > Later ... Goggle is my friend <GRIN> searching for: gimp+ggr+format
>> > turns up (as #1 hit of 21,300) this blog entry:
>> > http://raikardesigns.blogspot.com/ which has a link to this
>> explanation: http://rockraikar.googlepages.com/gimpGGRformat.txt
> Ken: This looks promising, but I will need to look it over some more.
> I don't know what "Blending function constant" means, and alpha has to
> be in there somewhere too.

Just curious: what are you trying to accomplish with Randomized gradients?

If not interested, just ignore the rest of this ...

In the first reference above: http://raikardesigns.blogspot.com/ their
is a further reference to:
> If you have appetite for more of gradients, you should try SpectraG,
> an opensource gradient editing software written by Rosros in Python.
> It represents gradients with formulas, so you need a understanding of
> little math but it appears to be a very interesting and immersing
> gradient editor. It allows importing and saving to .ggr format among
> various others.
at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/spectrag - from the downloads
section get:

    * SpectraG-1_11e - the python program and some bits and pieces and
    * formulae - unzip in a folder below folder where you put
      SpectraG-1_11e
    * gradients - ditto


To use it was (for me), a bit of an exercise. I already had python 2.5
installed - you just need it installed, you don't actually have to know
anything about python or work with it (much). What it did require that I
didn't already have was:

    * GPL Ghostscript  http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/doc/GPL/gpl860.htm
    * GSview  http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/gsview/get49.htm
    * pstoedit  http://www.pstoedit.net/pstoedit/

first one is needed, second two are "nice" to have if you want to use
Ghostscript as more than an underpinning for Spectra-G.
Once you install Spectra-G and attempt to run it, you get a CMD window
"flash" and silent termination.
If you make a copy of "Spectra-0_1.pyw" as "Spectra-0_1.py" and run it
in a cmd (DOS) window instead of just a flash you'll see some error
messages complaining about missing modules: PIL, numpy and scipy.

Windows installers for these can be found at:

    * PIL - http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm -
      PIL-1.1.6.win32-py2.5.exe
    * Numerical Python -
      http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=1369 -
      numpy-1.0.4.win32-py2.5.msi
    * SciPy: Scientific Library for Python -
      http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=27747
      -scipy-0.6.0.win32-py2.5.exe

Once installed, double clicking Spectra-0_1.pyw will bring up the
program - yippee.
Here's the second one I created, selecting a formula at random and
tweaking the sliders, again randomly:
http://buralex.googlepages.com/amb002-ripple001.ggr (its got 61 segments
so I haven't posted the text here). Just put it in (for me on WinXP2)
C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\.gimp-2.4\gradients before starting
GIMP.

Above looks complicated, but only took an hour or so from start to
finish - YMMV - or you may just say the heck with it. I certainly know a
lot more about GIMP gradients than I did a two days ago!

Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
--



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ken-99]

> Just curious: what are you trying to accomplish with Randomized
gradients?

I have been using the gradient tool to make some abstract wallpapers
and thought it would be interesting to see what kind of results I can
get with randomly created gradients.


> > If you have appetite for more of gradients, you should try SpectraG,
> > an opensource gradient editing software written by Rosros in Python.

I did see the link to SpectraG and downloaded it (and I have Python).
I haven't unziped it or anything yet, and I have doubts it's going to
run right on my Win98se machine. The website said it was for WinNT,
which should include XP and Vista(maybe) but not 98.


> Here's the second one I created, selecting a formula at random and
> tweaking the sliders, again randomly:
> http://buralex.googlepages.com/amb002-ripple001.ggr (its got 61
segments
> so I haven't posted the text here).

Saved it. Can't wait to look at it. 61 segments is A LOT.


> I certainly know a
> lot more about GIMP gradients than I did a two days ago!

I'm glad I could be a catalist for learning. :)

--Ken

[Alec Burgess]

  "Ken" <kenba_nistu@...> said on May 23, 2008 23:51 -0400 (in part):
> > Just curious: what are you trying to accomplish with Randomized
> gradients?
>
> I have been using the gradient tool to make some abstract wallpapers
> and thought it would be interesting to see what kind of results I can
> get with randomly created gradients.
>
> > > If you have appetite for more of gradients, you should try SpectraG,
> > > an opensource gradient editing software written by Rosros in Python.


Are you "handy" with Excel etc? Not tested but you "ought" to be able to
massage GGR files using formula in a spread sheet possibly with some
before-after manipulation with (say) Notetab clips or perl or python
scripts to convert:
GGR-file --> CSV-file -- {manipulate with Excel} -- CSV file --> GGR-file.

Unfortunately, I think GIMP loads all the gradients at startup - I don't
know whether there is anyway to get it to refresh itself based on
current GGR files. Maybe playing with file preferences would trigger this?
> I did see the link to SpectraG and downloaded it (and I have Python).
> I haven't unziped it or anything yet, and I have doubts it's going to
> run right on my Win98se machine. The website said it was for WinNT,
> which should include XP and Vista(maybe) but not 98

If you get this message before 3:00 AM EST Sunday May 25, the
GiveawayOfTheDay today is ArtStudio:
http://www.giveawayoftheday.com/artstudio/ Unfortunately its
requirements are fairly challenging:

    * Windows XP/Vista; Microsoft .NET framework 2.0; DirectX 9; Video
      accelerator card with 'Pixel Shader 2.0' support

I didn't know what 'Pixel Shader 2.0' was but apparently I have it  8-)
It can do some "neat" things with gradients (and a whole lot of other
special effects). Maybe others here will have a chance to check it out.

Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
--



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ken-99]

> Are you "handy" with Excel etc?


Not at all.


> Unfortunately, I think GIMP loads all the gradients at startup - I
don't
> know whether there is anyway to get it to refresh itself based on
> current GGR files.


I think there is a refresh button in the gradient selection screen.


> If you get this message before 3:00 AM EST Sunday May 25, the
> GiveawayOfTheDay today is ArtStudio:
> http://www.giveawayoftheday.com/artstudio/ Unfortunately its
> requirements are fairly challenging:
>
>     * Windows XP/Vista; Microsoft .NET framework 2.0; DirectX 9; Video
>       accelerator card with 'Pixel Shader 2.0' support
>


Unfortunatly, there is no way this old Win98 'puter of mine will ever
run that. But that's ok. I have a plan.

Now that I am fairly certain that I know what all the numbers in a ggr
file are for, I am going to write a proggy to churn out random
gradients for me. Right now, the only language I know how to use is
JustBasic, so it will be writen in that. I have Python but haven't
started learning it yet (lazy).

--Ken

[Ken-99]

To be honest, I am a little disappointed. I really thought there would
be a plugin or script-fu thingy already out there that would do this.
I have a program called Ultra Fractal that is used to make fractal art
and the ability to randomize the gradient is built in. Because of
this, I felt it would be a commonly wanted feature in other programs
like the Gimp and somebody by now would have made a plugin or
script-fu script to do it.

--Ken

[Tor Lillqvist]

> To be honest, I am a little disappointed. I really thought there would
> be a plugin or script-fu thingy already out there that would do this.

Well, there can't be scripts for everything. "random gradient" is a
fuzzy concept. A script would either have tons of parameters and it is
questionable whether people in general would understand many of them,
or it would be too simple for some users anyway.

The basic parameter is how many segments should the gradient consist
of? Clearly there is no self-evident upper limit for this, so the
number of segments in a "random" gradient can't simply be evenly
distributed between one and some limit. So what distribution to use?
Normal distribution? With what mean and variance? Or some other
distribution? Or should the number of segments be a fixed number
entered by the user, and then the rest of the parameters are chosen
randomly?

And similar argumentation can be done for all other parameters....
For each segment, one would have to select how to select the left and
right end colour, the blending function for the segment, the coloring
type for it. And for the end colours one would have to select the
randomisation parameters... Separately uniformly distributed R,G,B? Or
randomly picked from some more perceptually uniform colour space? Etc,
etc...

Have a look at GIMP's gradient editor some time and check what you can
do with it (right click) and imagine if all that should be randomized,
how to then set up the randomisation parameters for it all... How
would the UI look for a script that would take enough parameters to
randomise all that?

> I have a program called Ultra Fractal that is used to make fractal art
> and the ability to randomize the gradient is built in.

But what kind of gradient is it? What parameters (how many?) does it
actually randomise?

--tml

[Kent Paul Dolan]

> From: "Ken" <kenba_nistu@...>
> Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 03:51:45 -0000

> I did see the link to SpectraG and downloaded it
> (and I have Python).  I haven't unziped it or
> anything yet, and I have doubts it's going to run
> right on my Win98se machine. The website said it
> was for WinNT, which should include XP and
> Vista(maybe) but not 98.

I'm a bit amazed that you can even run the current
GIMP on a Win98se machine. I'm pretty sure the GIMP
is out of maintenance for Win98, though the
developers have said they won't deliberate break
GIMP for that OS.

xanthian.

[Michael Schumacher]

Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

> I'm a bit amazed that you can even run the current
> GIMP on a Win98se machine.

GIMP 2.2 isn't current.


Michael

--
     GIMP > http://www.gimp.org      | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp
     Wiki > http://wiki.gimp.org     | .de: http://gimpforum.de
Plug-ins > http://registry.gimp.org |

[Ken-99]

--- In gimpwin-users@..., "Tor Lillqvist" <tml@...> wrote:

>
> > To be honest, I am a little disappointed. I really thought there would
> > be a plugin or script-fu thingy already out there that would do this.
>
> Well, there can't be scripts for everything. "random gradient" is a
> fuzzy concept. A script would either have tons of parameters and it is
> questionable whether people in general would understand many of them,
> or it would be too simple for some users anyway.
>
> The basic parameter is how many segments should the gradient consist
> of? Clearly there is no self-evident upper limit for this, so the
> number of segments in a "random" gradient can't simply be evenly
> distributed between one and some limit. So what distribution to use?
> Normal distribution? With what mean and variance? Or some other
> distribution? Or should the number of segments be a fixed number
> entered by the user, and then the rest of the parameters are chosen
> randomly?
>
> And similar argumentation can be done for all other parameters....
> For each segment, one would have to select how to select the left and
> right end colour, the blending function for the segment, the coloring
> type for it. And for the end colours one would have to select the
> randomisation parameters... Separately uniformly distributed R,G,B? Or
> randomly picked from some more perceptually uniform colour space? Etc,
> etc...
>
> Have a look at GIMP's gradient editor some time and check what you can
> do with it (right click) and imagine if all that should be randomized,
> how to then set up the randomisation parameters for it all... How
> would the UI look for a script that would take enough parameters to
> randomise all that?
>
> > I have a program called Ultra Fractal that is used to make fractal art
> > and the ability to randomize the gradient is built in.
>
> But what kind of gradient is it? What parameters (how many?) does it
> actually randomise?
>
> --tml

I guess I see what you are saying. A script that does this the way I
want it done may be too ridged and inflexible for others, and writing
a script that will please everyone (or most, anyway) would be a bit of
a nightmare.

--Ken

[Ken-99]

--- In gimpwin-users@..., Michael Schumacher
<schumaml@...> wrote:

>
> Kent Paul Dolan wrote:
>
> > I'm a bit amazed that you can even run the current
> > GIMP on a Win98se machine.
>
> GIMP 2.2 isn't current.
>
>
> Michael
>

I haven't bothered to download any newer versions of GIMP because I
don't think they will run right. And thats a pity because I like the
looks of that foreground select tool that was added to 2.4

Maybe I should get the newest version anyway. If it doesn't run right
I can just get rid of it and stick with 2.2

--Ken

[Alec Burgess]

  "Ken" <kenba_nistu@...> said on May 24, 2008 22:37 -0400 (in part):
> To be honest, I am a little disappointed. I really thought there would
> be a plugin or script-fu thingy already out there that would do this.
> I have a program called Ultra Fractal that is used to make fractal art
> and the ability to randomize the gradient is built in. Because of
> this, I felt it would be a commonly wanted feature in other programs
> like the Gimp and somebody by now would have made a plugin or
> script-fu script to do it.
Thanks for the mention of Ultra Fractal. Fascinating program.

"Tor Lillqvist" <tml@...> said on May 25, 2008 5:23 -0400 (in part):
> Well, there can't be scripts for everything. "random gradient" is a
> fuzzy concept. A script would either have tons of parameters and it is
> questionable whether people in general would understand many of them,
> or it would be too simple for some users anyway.
You want to see "tons of parameters:"! have a look at Ultra Fractal. The
gradient handling "stuff" is the least of it. IMO though the program is
brilliantly organized to make what would at first blush appear to be a
totally incomprehensible mish-mosh actually quite understandable. After
following along in some VERY well done tutorials it actually starts to
make a lot of sense.

Its gradient editor is IMO much easier to follow than that in Gimp and
(possibly(?)) there might be some lessons-learned that could be carried
over to other parts of GIMP. I've never used Photoshop so I'm quite
prepared to be told that what looks so well-structured to me is just a
"rip-off" of some of organization of Photoshop (?)

rockraikar@... said on May 26, 2008 4:58 -0400 (in part):
> I'm the one who blogged about GGR format at raikardesigns.blogspot.com
> There is a mistake as you have found out in my explanation about GGR
> format. The line defining the segments is of the format
Thanks for the note (see below - I corrected labels to match your most
recent).

Note: I've emailed the Ultra Fractal author (see below) asking if he can
provide any guidance on how Ultra Fractal gradient descriptions can be
transformed from-to GIMP ggr gradient descriptions.

@Ken - depending on response from Fredrick, you just might get exactly
what you want :-)
=============
Hi Fredrick:
I came upon Ultra Fractal due to a user question on one of the Gimp lists.
He asked whether it was possible to create "random" gradients in GIMP.

Original poster turned out to have been a user of Ultra Fractal which is
where he'd run into the concept of random gradients.

Not knowing much about gradients in GIMP and nothing about Ultra Fractal
I did some poking around.

After a couple of fascinating hours following your EXCELLENT tutorials
(and while waiting for my first AVI to render I thought I'd come back to
my original question):

I peaked into a GIMP GGR file with a text editor and matched it to a
description I found here:
http://rockraikar.googlepages.com/gimpGGRformat.txt :

   * GIMP Gradient
   * Name: My Grad
   * 2
   * 0.000000 0.250000 0.500000 1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
     0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 3 0 0 0
   * 0.500000 0.750000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000
     0.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000 4 0 0 0
   * ------------------------------------------------------
   * First line says it is a gimp gradient file.
   * Second line gives your Gradient a suitable name.
   * Third line tells the number of segments in the gradient.
   * Each line following defines the property of each segment in
     following order.

1. [position of left stoppoint]
2. [pos. of middle point]
3. [pos. of right stoppoint]
4. [R for left stoppoint]
5. [G for left stoppoint]
6. [B for left stoppoint]
7. [A for left stoppoint]
8. [R for right stoppoint]
9. [G for right stoppoint]
10. [B for right stoppoint]
11. [A for right stoppoint]
12. [Blending function constant]
13. [Blending function  constant]
14. [Blending function constant]
15. [Blending function constant]

 From a UPR file I generated after following the tutorials with three
layers here are the relevant lines describing (I think) the gradients:

Gradiant info for a fractal with three layers: base (gradient "as is")
middle (gradient-color random), top (gradient color+alpha random):

   Julia3layers-base,Random-gradient-colors,Random-gradient-colors+alpha {
   fractal:
     title="Julia 3layers -base, random-gradient-colors, random-gradient-\
     colors+alpha" width=640 height=480 layers=3 credits="Alec;5/26/2008"
   layer:
     caption="rand-grad - colors+alpha" opacity=100 transparent=yes
   gradient:
     linked=yes smooth=yes index=35 color=7335750 index=209 color=6253199
     index=341 color=4912701

   layer:
     caption=" rand-grad - colors (opacity=50%)" opacity=50
   gradient:
     smooth=yes index=15 color=2006976 index=89 color=10508109 index=272
     color=15769772 index=358 color=4613484
   layer:
     caption="Julia base" opacity=100
   gradient:
     smooth=yes index=0 color=8716288 index=100 color=16121855 index=200
     color=46591 index=300 color=156
   }


Can you provide any guidance about how I would convert your description
into one that GIMP might be able to process? Or for that matter how I
might convert a GIMP GGR file back into an Ultra Fractal gradient
description?
=============

Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
--



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jernej Simončič-2]

On Mon, 26 May 2008 03:14:22 -0000, Ken wrote:

> Maybe I should get the newest version anyway. If it doesn't run right
> I can just get rid of it and stick with 2.2

You won't be able to install it at all on anything older than Windows 2000,
so don't waste your time.

--
< Jernej Simončič >< http://deepthought.ena.si/ >
< Contact address: >< jernej simoncic at isg si >

[Ken-99]

> I peaked into a GIMP GGR file with a text editor and matched it to a
> description I found here:
> http://rockraikar.googlepages.com/gimpGGRformat.txt :
>
>    * GIMP Gradient
>    * Name: My Grad
>    * 2
>    * 0.000000 0.250000 0.500000 1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
>      0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 3 0 0 0
>    * 0.500000 0.750000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000
>      0.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000 4 0 0 0
>    * ------------------------------------------------------
>    * First line says it is a gimp gradient file.
>    * Second line gives your Gradient a suitable name.
>    * Third line tells the number of segments in the gradient.
>    * Each line following defines the property of each segment in
>      following order.
>
> 1. [position of left stoppoint]
> 2. [pos. of middle point]
> 3. [pos. of right stoppoint]
> 4. [R for left stoppoint]
> 5. [G for left stoppoint]
> 6. [B for left stoppoint]
> 7. [A for left stoppoint]
> 8. [R for right stoppoint]
> 9. [G for right stoppoint]
> 10. [B for right stoppoint]
> 11. [A for right stoppoint]
> 12. [Blending function constant]
> 13. [Blending function  constant]
> 14. [Blending function constant]
> 15. [Blending function constant]
>

I would just like to say that none of the ggr files I looked at even
had a 14 or 15, so this info may still be a little off.

--Ken

[Mofakharul Islam]

>>> <buralex@...> 05/26/08 10:45 PM >>>
  "Ken" <kenba_nistu@...> said on May 24, 2008 22:37 -0400 (in
part):
> To be honest, I am a little disappointed. I really thought there would
> be a plugin or script-fu thingy already out there that would do this.
> I have a program called Ultra Fractal that is used to make fractal art
> and the ability to randomize the gradient is built in. Because of
> this, I felt it would be a commonly wanted feature in other programs
> like the Gimp and somebody by now would have made a plugin or
> script-fu script to do it.
Thanks for the mention of Ultra Fractal. Fascinating program.

"Tor Lillqvist" <tml@...> said on May 25, 2008 5:23 -0400 (in part):
> Well, there can't be scripts for everything. "random gradient" is a
> fuzzy concept. A script would either have tons of parameters and it is
> questionable whether people in general would understand many of them,
> or it would be too simple for some users anyway.
You want to see "tons of parameters:"! have a look at Ultra Fractal. The

gradient handling "stuff" is the least of it. IMO though the program is
brilliantly organized to make what would at first blush appear to be a
totally incomprehensible mish-mosh actually quite understandable. After
following along in some VERY well done tutorials it actually starts to
make a lot of sense.

Its gradient editor is IMO much easier to follow than that in Gimp and
(possibly(?)) there might be some lessons-learned that could be carried
over to other parts of GIMP. I've never used Photoshop so I'm quite
prepared to be told that what looks so well-structured to me is just a
"rip-off" of some of organization of Photoshop (?)

rockraikar@... said on May 26, 2008 4:58 -0400 (in part):
> I'm the one who blogged about GGR format at raikardesigns.blogspot.com
> There is a mistake as you have found out in my explanation about GGR
> format. The line defining the segments is of the format
Thanks for the note (see below - I corrected labels to match your most
recent).

Note: I've emailed the Ultra Fractal author (see below) asking if he can

provide any guidance on how Ultra Fractal gradient descriptions can be
transformed from-to GIMP ggr gradient descriptions.

@Ken - depending on response from Fredrick, you just might get exactly
what you want :-)
=============
Hi Fredrick:
I came upon Ultra Fractal due to a user question on one of the Gimp
lists.
He asked whether it was possible to create "random" gradients in GIMP.

Original poster turned out to have been a user of Ultra Fractal which is

where he'd run into the concept of random gradients.

Not knowing much about gradients in GIMP and nothing about Ultra Fractal

I did some poking around.

After a couple of fascinating hours following your EXCELLENT tutorials
(and while waiting for my first AVI to render I thought I'd come back to

my original question):

I peaked into a GIMP GGR file with a text editor and matched it to a
description I found here:
http://rockraikar.googlepages.com/gimpGGRformat.txt :

   * GIMP Gradient
   * Name: My Grad
   * 2
   * 0.000000 0.250000 0.500000 1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
     0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 3 0 0 0
   * 0.500000 0.750000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000 1.000000
     0.000000 0.000000 1.000000 1.000000 4 0 0 0
   * ------------------------------------------------------
   * First line says it is a gimp gradient file.
   * Second line gives your Gradient a suitable name.
   * Third line tells the number of segments in the gradient.
   * Each line following defines the property of each segment in
     following order.

1. [position of left stoppoint]
2. [pos. of middle point]
3. [pos. of right stoppoint]
4. [R for left stoppoint]
5. [G for left stoppoint]
6. [B for left stoppoint]
7. [A for left stoppoint]
8. [R for right stoppoint]
9. [G for right stoppoint]
10. [B for right stoppoint]
11. [A for right stoppoint]
12. [Blending function constant]
13. [Blending function  constant]
14. [Blending function constant]
15. [Blending function constant]

 From a UPR file I generated after following the tutorials with three
layers here are the relevant lines describing (I think) the gradients:

Gradiant info for a fractal with three layers: base (gradient "as is")
middle (gradient-color random), top (gradient color+alpha random):

   Julia3layers-base,Random-gradient-colors,Random-gradient-colors+alpha
{
   fractal:
     title="Julia 3layers -base, random-gradient-colors,
random-gradient-\
     colors+alpha" width=640 height=480 layers=3
credits="Alec;5/26/2008"
   layer:
     caption="rand-grad - colors+alpha" opacity=100 transparent=yes
   gradient:
     linked=yes smooth=yes index=35 color=7335750 index=209
color=6253199
     index=341 color=4912701

   layer:
     caption=" rand-grad - colors (opacity=50%)" opacity=50
   gradient:
     smooth=yes index=15 color=2006976 index=89 color=10508109 index=272
     color=15769772 index=358 color=4613484
   layer:
     caption="Julia base" opacity=100
   gradient:
     smooth=yes index=0 color=8716288 index=100 color=16121855 index=200
     color=46591 index=300 color=156
   }


Can you provide any guidance about how I would convert your description
into one that GIMP might be able to process? Or for that matter how I
might convert a GIMP GGR file back into an Ultra Fractal gradient
description?
=============

Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
--



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]