Raw Data Now!

[Roberto Bagnara]

Including archeological data, of course:

   http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/tim_berners_lee_on_the_next_web.html

Cheers,

    Roberto

--
Prof. Roberto Bagnara
Computer Science Group
Department of Mathematics, University of Parma, Italy
http://www.cs.unipr.it/~bagnara/
mailto:bagnara@...

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[Stefano Costa]

Il giorno mer, 18/03/2009 alle 20.50 +0100, Roberto Bagnara ha scritto:
>
> Including archeological data, of course:
>
>
> http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/tim_berners_lee_on_the_next_web.html

... and it's not a mere coincidence that these days we hear lots of
people talking about open access to archaeological literature and data:
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/2009/03/oa-archaeology-and-plos.html

Cheers,
Steko

--
Stefano Costa
http://www.iosa.it/ Open Archaeology



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Mailing list info: http://lists.linux.it/listinfo/archaeology

[mhall-3]

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: Raw Data Now!
From:    mhall@...
Date:    Thu, March 19, 2009 1:03 pm
To:      "Stefano Costa" <steko@...>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Il giorno mer, 18/03/2009 alle 20.50 +0100, Roberto Bagnara ha scritto:
>>
>> Including archeological data, of course:
>>
>>
>> http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/tim_berners_lee_on_the_next_web.html
>
> ... and it's not a mere coincidence that these days we hear lots of
> people talking about open access to archaeological literature and data:
> http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/2009/03/oa-archaeology-and-plos.html
>
> Cheers,
> Steko
>

Part of the problem I think for archaeologists with the open access model
is the page fees--I've yet to see where any of the free, open-source,
on-line
journals will waive them.

Even when I was employed with a university, they made it clear to me, page
fees came out of my grant/pocket.

Best, Mark Hall




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Mailing list info: http://lists.linux.it/listinfo/archaeology

[Nisha Doshi]

In response to 'Part of the problem I think for archaeologists with the open access model
is the page fees--I've yet to see where any of the free, open-source,
on-line journals will waive them', I just thought I should let you know that the open-access journals published by the Public Library of Science do allow full or partial fee waivers for anyone who can't afford the publication fee. Editors and reviewers have no access to payment information, so inability to pay has no effect on whether or not a paper is accepted for publication.

 

I don't want to turn this into a shameless plug for PLoS, and I should say that PLoS ONE hasn't really ventured much into archaeology yet, but if you are interested then here is a link to more info about the journal: http://www.plosone.org/static/information.action and my recent blog about archaeology in PLoS ONE http://www.plos.org/cms/node/455

 

If you have any comments, I'd be very interested to hear them, and if you'd like more info about publishing in PLoS then feel free to get in touch. As an archaeologist currently working for PLoS, I'm really keen for us to publish more archaeology!

 

Best wishes,

 

Nisha Doshi



--- On Thu, 19/3/09, mhall@... <mhall@...> wrote:

From: mhall@... <mhall@...>
Subject: Re: Raw Data Now!
To: archaeology@...
Date: Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 8:04 PM

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: Raw Data Now!
From:    mhall@...
Date:    Thu, March 19, 2009 1:03 pm
To:      "Stefano Costa" <steko@...>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Il giorno mer, 18/03/2009 alle 20.50 +0100, Roberto Bagnara ha scritto:
>>
>> Including archeological data, of course:
>>
>>
>> http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/tim_berners_lee_on_the_next_web.html
>
> ... and it's not a mere coincidence that these days we hear lots of
> people talking about open access to archaeological literature and data:
> http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/2009/03/oa-archaeology-and-plos.html
>
> Cheers,
> Steko
>

Part of the problem I think for archaeologists with the open access model
is the page fees--I've yet to see where any of the free, open-source,
on-line
journals will waive them.

Even when I was employed with a university, they made it clear to me, page
fees came out of my grant/pocket.

Best, Mark Hall




--
Mailing list info: http://lists.linux.it/listinfo/archaeology

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Mailing list info: http://lists.linux.it/listinfo/archaeology

[mhall-3]

Hi Nisha,

This is very good news then!  I'll admit I've never got into all the fine
print on PLOS and was a bit shocked when I did see page charges.  I was
also approached by another competitor to join their editorial board for
their open access journal on anthropology and declined due to their stance
on page charges.

Any information on the different areas PLoS is looking for archaeological
manuscripts?

Best, MEH

> In response to 'Part of the problem I think for archaeologists with the
> open access model
> is the page fees--I've yet to see where any of the free, open-source,
> on-line journals will waive them', I just thought I should let you know
> that the open-access journals published by the Public Library of Science
> do allow full or partial fee waivers for anyone who can't afford the
> publication fee. Editors and reviewers have no access to payment
> information, so inability to pay has no effect on whether or not a paper
> is accepted for publication.
>  
> I don't want to turn this into a shameless plug for PLoS, and I should say
> that PLoS ONE hasn't really ventured much into archaeology yet, but if you
> are interested then here is a link to more info about the journal:
> http://www.plosone.org/static/information.action and my recent blog about
> archaeology in PLoS ONE http://www.plos.org/cms/node/455
>  
> If you have any comments, I'd be very interested to hear them, and if
> you'd like more info about publishing in PLoS then feel free to get in
> touch. As an archaeologist currently working for PLoS, I'm really keen for
> us to publish more archaeology!
>  
> Best wishes,
>  
> Nisha Doshi
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 19/3/09, mhall@... <mhall@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: mhall@... <mhall@...>
> Subject: Re: Raw Data Now!
> To: archaeology@...
> Date: Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 8:04 PM
>
>
> ---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: Re: Raw Data Now!
> From:    mhall@...
> Date:    Thu, March 19, 2009 1:03 pm
> To:      "Stefano Costa" <steko@...>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> Il giorno mer, 18/03/2009 alle 20.50 +0100, Roberto Bagnara ha scritto:
>>>
>>> Including archeological data, of course:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/tim_berners_lee_on_the_next_web.html
>>
>> ... and it's not a mere coincidence that these days we hear lots of
>> people talking about open access to archaeological literature and data:
>> http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/2009/03/oa-archaeology-and-plos.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Steko
>>
>
> Part of the problem I think for archaeologists with the open access model
> is the page fees--I've yet to see where any of the free, open-source,
> on-line
> journals will waive them.
>
> Even when I was employed with a university, they made it clear to me, page
> fees came out of my grant/pocket.
>
> Best, Mark Hall
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list info: http://lists.linux.it/listinfo/archaeology
>
>
>
>

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[Stefano Costa]

Il giorno gio, 19/03/2009 alle 13.04 -0700, mhall@... ha
scritto:
>
> Part of the problem I think for archaeologists with the open access
> model is the page fees--I've yet to see where any of the free,
> open-source, on-line journals will waive them.
>
> Even when I was employed with a university, they made it clear to me,
> page fees came out of my grant/pocket.

Mark,
the relative wealthiness of other disciplines if compared to archaeology
is an undeniable truth, but:

      * this doesn't apply for ALL of archaeology. In fact there are
        archaeological research projects that involve dozens of people
        and organizations that actually have lots of money (from private
        foundations or from governments)
      * it should be also remarked that in any project, there is always
        some cost for publication to take into account: if a large
        project has not publication costs in its budget, it could be a
        problem of bad planning choices
      * just like Open Source, Open Access doesn't mean "free as in
        beer", even though we all know that for Free and Open Source
        Software this applies for many end users. Someone has to get
        things done in order for an e-journal to be online, with a
        serious peer review workflow, etc, and that someone clearly has
        to be paid. So it's clear that somebody has to pay.

It's great to see that PlosOne has interest in archaeology (I follow it
from the very beginning and I'm happy all the times I can read some
paleoanthropology, palaeopathology or palaeo-x there), and I think the
"only" major problem would be acceptance of such a revolutionary medium
by the archaeological (academic) community. I guess that the need for
peer review would make it necessary to involve a number of people from
established positions in academia, so also this problem could be easily
solved. However, gaining reputation is not a quick process IMHO (at
least not reasoning at 2.0 speed).

But, coming back to the original topic proposed by Roberto, we need Raw
Data Now!

Raw data doesn't suffer from all the limitations and requirements of
scientific literature. Building repositories is something other
disciplines have been doing doing for years now. Archaeologists have
hundreds of databases just waiting for an URL to become available for
other archaeologists, other researchers and also for the "general"
public (i.e. the tax-payers). There are technical issues, and not
everyone is able to build a web service around their database. My take
on this topic is:
     1. get your data out, perfection will come later;
     2. avoid locking your data in proprietary formats;
     3. prefer free and open source software for the editing and storage
        of your data;

If you're more on the humanities side of archaeology, and you think
"data" doesn't mean anything to you, then please take your EndNote or
Zotero bibliographic database, export it into a readable format and
publish it on the web. Bibliographies are much like data for humanities,
even though they're not everything.

I think this topic is crucial. I'd like to hear from more people about
it.

Cheers,
Steko

--
Stefano Costa
http://www.iosa.it/ Open Archaeology



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[Nisha Doshi]

Hi Mark,

 

Archaeobotany, archaeogenetics, zooarchaeology, isotope-based studies and Palaeolithic archaeology would probably be most suitable for the submission categories currently used by the PLoS journals. Since PLoS ONE publishes papers in all areas of science, manuscripts in any area of archaeological science would fit its scope, which is described on the journal's website as follows:

 

'Most conventional journals publish papers from tightly defined subject areas, making it more difficult for readers from other disciplines to read them. PLoS ONE has no such barriers, which helps your research reach the entire scientific community. PLoS ONE will rigorously peer-review your submissions and publish all papers that are judged to be technically sound.'

 

Hope that helps!

 

Best wishes,

 

Nisha

--- On Fri, 20/3/09, mhall@... <mhall@...> wrote:

From: mhall@... <mhall@...>
Subject: Re: Raw Data Now!
To: nishadi_100@...
Cc: archaeology@...
Date: Friday, 20 March, 2009, 3:30 AM

Hi Nisha,

This is very good news then!  I'll admit I've never got into all the fine
print on PLOS and was a bit shocked when I did see page charges.  I was
also approached by another competitor to join their editorial board for
their open access journal on anthropology and declined due to their stance
on page charges.

Any information on the different areas PLoS is looking for archaeological
manuscripts?

Best, MEH

> In response to 'Part of the problem I think for archaeologists with the
> open access model
> is the page fees--I've yet to see where any of the free, open-source,
> on-line journals will waive them', I just thought I should let you know
> that the open-access journals published by the Public Library of Science
> do allow full or partial fee waivers for anyone who can't afford the
> publication fee. Editors and reviewers have no access to payment
> information, so inability to pay has no effect on whether or not a paper
> is accepted for publication.
>  
> I don't want to turn this into a shameless plug for PLoS, and I should say
> that PLoS ONE hasn't really ventured much into archaeology yet, but if you
> are interested then here is a link to more info about the journal:
> http://www.plosone.org/static/information.action and my recent blog about
> archaeology in PLoS ONE http://www.plos.org/cms/node/455
>  
> If you have any comments, I'd be very interested to hear them, and if
> you'd like more info about publishing in PLoS then feel free to get in
> touch. As an archaeologist currently working for PLoS, I'm really keen for
> us to publish more archaeology!
>  
> Best wishes,
>  
> Nisha Doshi
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 19/3/09, mhall@... <mhall@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: mhall@... <mhall@...>
> Subject: Re: Raw Data Now!
> To: archaeology@...
> Date: Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 8:04 PM
>
>
> ---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: Re: Raw Data Now!
> From:    mhall@...
> Date:    Thu, March 19, 2009 1:03 pm
> To:      "Stefano Costa" <steko@...>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> Il giorno mer, 18/03/2009 alle 20.50 +0100, Roberto Bagnara ha scritto:
>>>
>>> Including archeological data, of course:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/tim_berners_lee_on_the_next_web.html
>>
>> ... and it's not a mere coincidence that these days we hear lots of
>> people talking about open access to archaeological literature and data:
>> http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/2009/03/oa-archaeology-and-plos.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Steko
>>
>
> Part of the problem I think for archaeologists with the open access model
> is the page fees--I've yet to see where any of the free, open-source,
> on-line
> journals will waive them.
>
> Even when I was employed with a university, they made it clear to me, page
> fees came out of my grant/pocket.
>
> Best, Mark Hall
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list info: http://lists.linux.it/listinfo/archaeology
>
>
>
>

--
Mailing list info: http://lists.linux.it/listinfo/archaeology

[mhall-3]

Hi Steko,

> Mark,
> the relative wealthiness of other disciplines if compared to archaeology
> is an undeniable truth, but:
>
>       * this doesn't apply for ALL of archaeology. In fact there are
>         archaeological research projects that involve dozens of people
>         and organizations that actually have lots of money (from private
>         foundations or from governments)

Sure, but I would have to ask, how much of the archaeology in Italy (I'm
assuming you are working in Italy due to your email address, far enough if
it is a bad assumption)is developer funded?  And what laws are there in
place to insure "standards" for developer funded archaeology?  While I'd
have to dig around on the SAA and RPA websites, well over half (probably
over 75%)of the archaeology done in the USA these days is
CRM/rescue/developer funded.

For myself, for the last decade or so, for one reason or the other, I've
focused on doing geochemical studies of pottery, lithics, etc.  Many CRM
firms, while they might want the analyses done, aren't really willing to
pay for it or are very reluctant to pay even for equipment time. Stupidly
I guess, in the past, all too often, I took an archaeometric job more for
interest than $$$, and hoped I wouldn't loose too much money.

>       * it should be also remarked that in any project, there is always
>         some cost for publication to take into account: if a large
>         project has not publication costs in its budget, it could be a
>         problem of bad planning choices

Well, this also gets into the standards and laws concerning projects.  All
too many projects in California just have a copy of the report filed with
the State Data center and the SHPO Office.

>       * just like Open Source, Open Access doesn't mean "free as in
>         beer", even though we all know that for Free and Open Source
>         Software this applies for many end users. Someone has to get
>         things done in order for an e-journal to be online, with a
>         serious peer review workflow, etc, and that someone clearly has
>         to be paid. So it's clear that somebody has to pay.

But by the same token though, when I review for Elsevier or Wiley, or so
of the smaller independent journals, I receive no compensation. I see
reviewing as a professional responsibility and a way to enforce some
standards, etc.
Admittedly, I do agree with you on the person getting paid who does the
lay-out, etc.

>
> It's great to see that PlosOne has interest in archaeology (I follow it
> from the very beginning and I'm happy all the times I can read some
> paleoanthropology, palaeopathology or palaeo-x there), and I think the
> "only" major problem would be acceptance of such a revolutionary medium
> by the archaeological (academic) community.

Well, you have the British InterArch or Internet Archaeology journal which
has been slowly gaining status.

Best, Mark Hall




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