Re: (teach) Re:English Grammar

Dave Kees wrote:

I'm getting a little tired of all of this talk about Chinese teachers haveto teach the grammar to the students for them to pass the test. It is simplynot true.

The CET grammar and vocabulary test is primarily a test that would be
answered by the kind of things students have learned by Extensive Reading, not of what their teachers taught them in grammar and vocabulary classes.

If you carefully check each question on the CET, you'll find that it is likely no teacher ever taught the students the answer, the grammar rule, to most of those questions.
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My comment:And if you look at TEM papers you will see that grammar knowledge is important to be able to pass and whether you get tired of it or not you have to accept the fact told to me by umpteen Chinese teachers and leaders that they believe it is the Chinese teachers job to teach grammar and vocab to pass the test. It is not something foreign teachers in China have just made up themselves!Have you not had Chinese students asking you grammar questions in or outside class? This is a quotidian experience for me at university level in China.Now the fact that it doesn't help their English much to know all of this grammar, we all agree I think that it doesn't, but that also doesn't help a student to pass TEM 4 which is grammar heavy if  they don't know basic grammar which they know they need in order to graduate. does it? I don't mean reciting the rules but applying the rules.

It is all about grammar in use indeed but if they don't use the language outside of class how are they gonna get any good at it? Too many of them learn only what they need to pass the test and if the test is about grammar then that's what they'll learn. I long for a TEM and CET speaking test as that should shake things up but it's not gonna happen anytime soon.

Russ Taylor