Re: [Rosegarden-bugs] SF.net SVN: rosegarden:[10457] trunk/rosegarden

[D. Michael McIntyre-3]

On Tuesday 30 June 2009, cjnfryer@... wrote:

> Log Message:
> -----------
> Merge of newcontrolrulers branch.

It's alive!

Everything builds and runs fine after the merge, and it's good to see you've
gotten through this much hacking and slashing.  Hopefully it will all be
downhill from here.

I've tested that the new "read only" velocity ruler works, with some caveats,
and this looks quite plausible to me!

Sorry this message is so late.  There's nothing like chugging through a brutal
marathon only to listen to the lonely sound of a pin dropping somewhere off
in the distance.

I got called in to work while I was in the middle of writing this message, and
it got lost in the fray somewhere along the way.  The last few days have been
extraordinarily rough.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[D. Michael McIntyre-3]

On Thursday 02 July 2009, you wrote:

> I know alignment and the behaviour with the panner is quite a way off
> right now. What were the other significant caveats you noticed?

Alignment didn't actually jump out at me, so I did some serious looking.  I do
see alignment problems now, and the alignment is arguably worse than before.

Alignment has never been perfect though.  If we assume that the position of
the event rectangle on the canvas represents the correct starting and ending
points A and B, respectively, which the ruler bar should mirror, then I find:

Default zoom

Classic velocity bar starts at:  A + 2 or A + 3 (seems random)
                       ends at:  B

Thorn   velocity bar starts at:  A - 4
                       ends at:  B - 1

(Thorn metrics off by a margin of error of one pixel in either direction due
to half pixeling, even at default zoom level.)

The starting significantly soon and ending a little early pattern holds out to
the highest zoom level.  It's harder to quantify all of this when zooming
out, because of half pixeling and general fuzziness everywhere.  (And with no
feedback as to what level of zoom the panner is sitting at, it is hard to
reproduce anything but the extreme stops and the default middle setting
anyway.)
   

OK, moving past that one, the first thing I noticed yesterday was I entered
some random string of events, and only one of them showed up on the ruler.  I
can't figure out how to reproduce that today.  Everything I try is showing
up, even when closing out the view and opening another.

Other issues:

* no updates when velocity of existing events changes (eg. using the velocity
tool)

* no color man, or colour if you insist, but either way we must have colo(u)r!  
(I can probably take a moment to go add that back in if you'd like.)

It's a pretty short list, really.  The alignment thing took the most effort to
really look at precisely and quantify, and it's actually the thing that least
stood out to my eye.  The alignment on the rulers has always been out of
whack anyway, you see.  Yours is just out of whack in a different way,
missing the mark at both target points instead of only one of them.

--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[Chris Fryer]

I knew about the alignment and lack of COLOUR - they're both in the
pipeline.

I thought I'd fixed the connections between MatrixScene changes and the
property control rulers (both adding events and using the velocity
tool). That synchronisation has been the hardest thing to get going and
I will now return try to find where I've messed up!



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[cannam]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM, <cjnfryer@...> wrote:
> Use the 'Insert Item' selection under 'Control Ruler Actions' menu to turn on the velocity property ruler.

In case it isn't clear, this menu is actually supposed to be the one
that shows up when you right-click on a controller ruler, and "Insert
Item" is supposed to mean insert a control change event into that
ruler -- not insert a ruler into the window.

The only reason this menu appears in the menu bar at all is because
there's a bug somewhere in the menu handling code, and I didn't think
it was worth trying to fix it until the rulers were present to try to
put the menu in (before that, no true fix would be possible anyway).
It may be just a question of adding some logic to create a menu into
the ruler, but it may be more complicated than that.

The ruler is supposed to be added using something in the View menu
(though I forget exactly what it's called, just at the moment, have to
check with 1.7).

That apart -- seems to work nicely.


Chris

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[Chris Fryer]

On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 17:58 +0100, Chris Cannam wrote:
> In case it isn't clear, this menu is actually supposed to be the one
> that shows up when you right-click on a controller ruler, and "Insert
> Item" is supposed to mean insert a control change event into that
> ruler -- not insert a ruler into the window.
Thanks. I hadn't realised that.
I was planning to implement the "insert item" functionality by
recognising the MatrixPainter tool and a mouse press on the control
ruler.
I figured I'd track the current matrix tool and enable something like
the following:
Matrix Tool Control Ruler Property Ruler
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Selector Select/Move Adjust (not move, just change value)
Mover Move Adjust
Resize NA NA
Erase Erase NA
Painter Insert NA
Velocity NA Adjust (if velocity)

What do you think?

Chris


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[cannam]

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Chris Fryer<chrisf1874@...> wrote:
> What do you think?

Looks good at first read-through.


Chris

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[D. Michael McIntyre-3]

On Friday 03 July 2009, Chris Cannam wrote:

> Item" is supposed to mean insert a control change event into that
> ruler -- not insert a ruler into the window.

Right.  I would have mentioned that myself if it had occurred to me hanging
the code off there was anything more than a temporary place to put it.

It used to be on the View menu.  I've never liked putting these on the View
menu though.  I'll have to think about that one.

The plan he laid out looks fine to me too, on a casual read.  I haven't had
time today to really sit down and chew on things though. I'm just trying to
catch up.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[Julie S]

Dear Rg Team,

Since we are talking about velocity rule.

One thing in classic I annoys me is I have to go to the view menu and open it each time I was in the matrix editor.  It is pretty typical to have to go through the slot of opening a segment then ask to view the velocity ruler.

So, a nice shortcut to open it would be nice or having it open by default, would be be preference.

But, that is just my experience using RG.

Sincerely,
Julie S.


     

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[D. Michael McIntyre-3]

On Friday 03 July 2009, Julie S wrote:

> So, a nice shortcut to open it would be nice or having it open by default,
> would be be preference.

I don't think I'd vote to have it open by default, but I've always found the
View menu mechanism really awkward.

My first thought is something like the "tools toolbar" in the notation editor,
which toggles all the other toolbars from itself.  I don't actually find this
toolbar particularly useful, but it's an interesting starting point.

The problem with the control rulers is there could be a ruler for any one of
dozens of controllers that happened to be defined in a particular user's
studio.  We can't really make a fixed quick toggle for these, because there
could be a ton of them. Up to 128 I guess?  More than 128?

I don't have any immediate thoughts on this coming to mind, but we can start
by agreeing that we need to come up with a plan for something better, and
then implement it.  I'd like to see that.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[cannam]

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 2:33 AM, D. Michael
McIntyre<rosegarden.trumpeter@...> wrote:
> On Friday 03 July 2009, Julie S wrote:
>
>> So, a nice shortcut to open it would be nice or having it open by default,
>> would be be preference.
>
> I don't think I'd vote to have it open by default, but I've always found the
> View menu mechanism really awkward.

It is awkward.  The program is supposed to remember which rulers you
had open when you last edited a particular segment, but it doesn't
help when you open a new one.

A simple keyboard shortcut to get at a ruler would probably be most helpful.


Chris

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[Julie S]

Hello All,,

Chris C wrote:
> A simple keyboard shortcut to get at a ruler would probably
> be most helpful.


I'd be happy with that.

Chris wrote:
> It is awkward.  The program is supposed to remember
> which rulers you
> had open when you last edited a particular segment, but it
> doesn't
> help when you open a new one.

In classic other options transcend segments like showing the parameter box.  I guess I was hoping for more of a toggle in that respect.

Michael suggested then we would need a toggle for for every possible parameter.  And I guess if we open the box of toggles that is one path we have to consider.

We already treat the velocity ruler different than the other rulers, and it is different from a MIDI stand point since it is encoded with the note on message.

In classic, if memory serves correctly, the other rulers are just tabs on the same window along the bottom of the view.

With that in mind, I would just suggest moving the view ruler toggle to an matrix view level toggle instead of a per segment level toggle in the matrix view like we did for the instrument panel in classic.

Sincerely,
Julie S.



     

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[Chris Fryer]

On Thu, 2009-07-02 at 12:06 -0400, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
> OK, moving past that one, the first thing I noticed yesterday was I entered
> some random string of events, and only one of them showed up on the ruler.  I
> can't figure out how to reproduce that today.  Everything I try is showing
> up, even when closing out the view and opening another.

I've just had a (so far) unrepeatable problem with the matrix that (like
the above) immediately disappeared. All new notes added, extended to the
end of the segment irrespective of required duration.

I've no idea of the cause (could be new control rulers but I'm not sure
how) but figured I should record it somewhere.


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[D. Michael McIntyre-3]

On Saturday 04 July 2009, Julie S wrote:

> Chris C wrote:
> > A simple keyboard shortcut to get at a ruler would probably
> > be most helpful.
>
> I'd be happy with that.

While we'll never have enough keyboard shortcuts for the people who really
love them, we already have about 10 times more than I could ever remember at
the same time.

I just spent some time looking at the matrix and thinking to myself I ought to
choose about now to do something about making some sensible way to get to the
rulers.

What struck me as sensible was to do some kind of control group widget toward
the bottom of the screen, with three controls on it.  One to toggle the
velocity ruler, one to toggle the pitch bend ruler, and one to bring up a
list of available controllers with toggles for each of those rulers.  (Tricky
point to get right: keeping it in sync with instrument changes.)

Pitch bend isn't a different kind of ruler the same way velocity is, but it's
different from all the other controllers, so I like maintaining a distinction
and giving it a dedicated control.

Thinking further, it seems sensible to do the controls as toggle push buttons
with icons instead of words in them.

After chewing on where to put this, I don't quite like hanging these three
buttons off any of the existing toolbars, but I don't have any practical
alternatives to propose.  Even getting out a graphics editor to piddle around
with some things that would be hard to pull off in code, nothing strikes a
chord.  So I'd put them in a toolbar and hang that toobar at the same level
as the grid/velocity/quantize and the zoom toolbars, rather than toward the
bottom of the screen as I first thought.

Then of course we could hook this up to keyboard shortcuts too.

I'd say make the velocity and maybe pitch bend toggle settings sticky to the
matrix globally with QSettings, but stick the other rulers maybe not to the
segment but to the track, since they're very instrument-dependent.

Oh, and I wonder if there is a way to make a common toolbar shared by both the
notation and matrix views, with common slots and everything, so we could
implement the same thing in both views with the same code?  I imagine it's
highly possible, and am more wondering if I happen to be lucky enough that
there's already a precedent to follow.  I can't think of one off hand.

--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[D. Michael McIntyre-3]

Another, related thought process I've had is it would be really interesting to
have some kind of code to detect the presence of controllers in the
segment(s) open in this view, and show some kind of notification doodad.

Something simple and unobtrusive, like the "you've got new email" icon in my
system tray, maybe.  Clicking this button would pop up a dialog saying
something like:


  Rosegarden has detected the presence of the following
  controllers in [this segment | these segments].

  Select the rulers you would like to open:

       Pitch bend [x]
       Reverb     [x]
       Pan        [x]

                                    [ Open ]  [ Cancel ]


Taking that whole idea one step further, I don't know how practical it is to
actually do, but...

When we import a MIDI file, what do we do with controllers that aren't defined
in the studio for the "General MIDI Device?"  Do we just ignore and drop
them?  Do we keep them internally but not present them in a way that offers
ready editing?  (By "ready editing" I'm thinking along the lines of how in
order to display a program change in the IPB, some string has to be defined
for that program number.)

I don't know the answer to that.  Does anyone happen to know?

What I'm thinking of for this is some kind of notification like:

  Rosegarden has detected the following controllers in use.  These
  controllers are not defined in your studio.  Would you like to
  open the device manager and go give these blank numbered nothings
  a useful name for future reference?  Or do you just want to go on
  continuing to suck at life?  All controllers and no names makes
  JACK a dull boy.

                                   [ REDRUM! ] [ Tommyknockers ]

--
D. Michael McIntyre

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