Re: [TYPO3-english] Closedown bugs.typo3.org

[Dmitry Dulepov]

Hi!

Staffan Ericsson wrote:
> I suggest that bugs.typo3.org is closed down as soon as possible. As I
> watch the summary page I notice 3648 open bugs! In the core there is
> 1971 open bugs alone and 1202 resolved but unclosed bugs.
>
> As it is apparent that bugs.typo3 is not used and bugs reported thru
> that medium is not handled by the typo3 community. As bugs.typo3.org is
> a blackhole when it comes to bugs it's better to simply close it down
> that give false hope to all bug reporters.

Is it fool moon already? Again strange, unqualified and unfounded posts in the mailing lists?

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[Oliver Klee-3]

Staffan,

please don't post to more than one list (crossposting).

Thanks,


Oliver
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[Sebastian Gebhard-4]

New Features and bugfixes both are developed too slow. This is not the core developers' fault (they do a great job) but just an issue of missing manpower.
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[Steffen Gebert]

Am 15.10.2009, 14:00 Uhr, schrieb Staffan Ericsson  
<staffan.ericsson@...>:

> As it is apparent that bugs.typo3 is not used and bugs reported thru
> that medium is not handled by the typo3 community.

*community*, not *company*
You can't force anybody to fix anything.
Instead of writing such stupid things, please get your ass up and provide  
patches!

Now let's ignore all those stupid postings and do what we really want to  
do here: Enhance TYPO3!

Steffen
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[Mathias Schreiber [wmdb >]]

Staffan Ericsson schrieb:
> Hi!
>
> I suggest that bugs.typo3.org is closed down as soon as possible. As I
> watch the summary page I notice 3648 open bugs! In the core there is
> 1971 open bugs alone and 1202 resolved but unclosed bugs.

This is because we set bugs to "resolved" first and then close them down
lateron (which is only a usability thing).

Next up I walked through the bugtracker and would close down at least
50% of all reported bugs with the remark "user generated error".
Guess what: They are open less than 24 hrs later :)
Reason: folks unlikely see that things are their mistake.

> As it is apparent that bugs.typo3 is not used and bugs reported thru
> that medium is not handled by the typo3 community. As bugs.typo3.org is
> a blackhole when it comes to bugs it's better to simply close it down
> that give false hope to all bug reporters.

To the outside this might be true.
It is very difficult to communicate how bugs are handled within the
TYPO3 project.
Bugs are reported.
Bugs are then either taken up by some of the cool folks at the bug days
(thank you guys btw.) and provided with patches or the one who found the
bug supplies a patch.
These bugs are then transmitted to the Core Mailing List where they need
positive reviews so we can circumvent that patch A brings up bugs B, C
and D.
This works in 95% of all cases (which is pretty good, compared to other
systems).

> There is an unhealthy rush in the TYPO3 development team towards new
> functionality and gold plating. The community needs to change focus
> towards usablitity and bug fixing. Stop all new development until the
> number of open bugs is below 100!

I think you might not have attended the TYPO3 Developer Days or whatched
the videos so I won't blame you for not knowing:
The next TYPO3 releases will:
a) have a far quicker release cycle (6 months)
b) focus on 90% bugfixing and "convinience things" and 10% new features

These are of course estimates and only a future plan but all in all it
should satisfy your demand.

If you have any ideas how to improve outside communication or make the
current ways to handle things more transparent you can either get in
touch with Peter Pröll (peter@...) or me (who will then forward a
digest of your ideas to Peter).

Just a sidenote:
TYPO3 people are very much like surfers - if you rant in their place you
might get a bloody nose, even if the rant was not your intention.

Constructive criticism is always (!) welcome.

cheers
Mathias

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[Francois Suter-3]

Nice answer, Mattes, thanks.

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[Reinhard Führicht-2]

Mathias Schreiber [wmdb >] schrieb:

> Staffan Ericsson schrieb:
>> Hi!
>>
>> I suggest that bugs.typo3.org is closed down as soon as possible. As I
>> watch the summary page I notice 3648 open bugs! In the core there is
>> 1971 open bugs alone and 1202 resolved but unclosed bugs.
>
> This is because we set bugs to "resolved" first and then close them down
> lateron (which is only a usability thing).
>
> Next up I walked through the bugtracker and would close down at least
> 50% of all reported bugs with the remark "user generated error".
> Guess what: They are open less than 24 hrs later :)
> Reason: folks unlikely see that things are their mistake.
>
>> As it is apparent that bugs.typo3 is not used and bugs reported thru
>> that medium is not handled by the typo3 community. As bugs.typo3.org is
>> a blackhole when it comes to bugs it's better to simply close it down
>> that give false hope to all bug reporters.
>
> To the outside this might be true.
> It is very difficult to communicate how bugs are handled within the
> TYPO3 project.
> Bugs are reported.
> Bugs are then either taken up by some of the cool folks at the bug days
> (thank you guys btw.) and provided with patches or the one who found the
> bug supplies a patch.
> These bugs are then transmitted to the Core Mailing List where they need
> positive reviews so we can circumvent that patch A brings up bugs B, C
> and D.
> This works in 95% of all cases (which is pretty good, compared to other
> systems).
>
>> There is an unhealthy rush in the TYPO3 development team towards new
>> functionality and gold plating. The community needs to change focus
>> towards usablitity and bug fixing. Stop all new development until the
>> number of open bugs is below 100!
>
> I think you might not have attended the TYPO3 Developer Days or whatched
> the videos so I won't blame you for not knowing:
> The next TYPO3 releases will:
> a) have a far quicker release cycle (6 months)
> b) focus on 90% bugfixing and "convinience things" and 10% new features
>
> These are of course estimates and only a future plan but all in all it
> should satisfy your demand.
>
> If you have any ideas how to improve outside communication or make the
> current ways to handle things more transparent you can either get in
> touch with Peter Pröll (peter@...) or me (who will then forward a
> digest of your ideas to Peter).
>
> Just a sidenote:
> TYPO3 people are very much like surfers - if you rant in their place you
> might get a bloody nose, even if the rant was not your intention.
>
> Constructive criticism is always (!) welcome.
>
> cheers
> Mathias
>

What "bugs" me about the current appearance of the bugtracker is, that
it seems fairly unorganized.

Example:

There is a project "other extensions" where people report bugs about
specific extensions, in my case th_mailformplus. The problem is that the
extension author isn't informed about this bug in any way. I, for my
part, do not want people to file bugs about my extensions on
bugs.typo3.org because I have bugtrackers for my extensions on Forge.

In my opinion, bugs.typo3.org should be ONLY for core related bugs like
the core itself and sysexts.
Any community extension should use Forge for this because this is what
Forge is for.

In my view, making bugs.typo3.org only for core related bugs will result
in less bugs and a better overview.


Just my 2 cents

--
mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Reinhard Führicht MSc
Entwickler

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[Francois Suter-3]

Hi Reinhard,

> In my opinion, bugs.typo3.org should be ONLY for core related bugs like
> the core itself and sysexts.
> Any community extension should use Forge for this because this is what
> Forge is for.

bugs.typo3.org existed way before Forge. At the time it was convenient -
for ext developers who wanted it - to share the TYPO3 bugtracker for
their own extensions. It is entirely possible to close down the
th_mailformplus subproject on bugs.typo3.org, but you would first have
to make sure that all bugs on bugs.typo3.org related to th_mailformplus
either exist on Forge too or can be closed.

We can't force extension developers to move to Forge and - for some
extensions - it is really difficult because there's such a history on
bugs.typo3.org.

And about being warned about new bugs, I miss that too, but found that
there's a RSS feed for each project/subproject. You can subscribe to
that, it's better than nothing.

HTH

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[Reinhard Führicht-2]

Francois Suter schrieb:

> Hi Reinhard,
>
>> In my opinion, bugs.typo3.org should be ONLY for core related bugs
>> like the core itself and sysexts.
>> Any community extension should use Forge for this because this is what
>> Forge is for.
>
> bugs.typo3.org existed way before Forge. At the time it was convenient -
> for ext developers who wanted it - to share the TYPO3 bugtracker for
> their own extensions. It is entirely possible to close down the
> th_mailformplus subproject on bugs.typo3.org, but you would first have
> to make sure that all bugs on bugs.typo3.org related to th_mailformplus
> either exist on Forge too or can be closed.
>
> We can't force extension developers to move to Forge and - for some
> extensions - it is really difficult because there's such a history on
> bugs.typo3.org.
>
> And about being warned about new bugs, I miss that too, but found that
> there's a RSS feed for each project/subproject. You can subscribe to
> that, it's better than nothing.
>
> HTH
>

Hi Francois,

there is no subproject th_mailformplus. The bugs regarding
th_mailformplus are filed under "other extensions", so I would have to
subscribe to the RSS feed of the whole subproject and receive approx.
98.5% irrelevant infos :-)

Of course bugs.typo3.org existed way before Forge, I know. But it would
be nice to some kind of cleanup and move projects from bugs.typo3.org to
Forge. And I am aware of the fact, that this is no easy task, but the
authors of the extension could be contacted and asked (not forced) to do
that.
I am sure there are many subprojects on bugs.typo3.org which have a
bugtracker on Forge too, so it should be possible to manually move bugs
to Forge.

Cheers

--
mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Reinhard Führicht MSc
Entwickler

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[Francois Suter-3]

Hi,

> there is no subproject th_mailformplus. The bugs regarding
> th_mailformplus are filed under "other extensions", so I would have to
> subscribe to the RSS feed of the whole subproject and receive approx.
> 98.5% irrelevant infos :-)

Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. I had forgotten about that "catch
all" project. I agree that it should actually be closed now that we have
Forge, but the cleanup might not be so easy.

One thing to write down in the TODO list for after the 4.3 release ;-)

Cheers

--

Francois Suter
Cobweb Development Sarl - http://www.cobweb.ch
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