Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been
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Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been
by Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
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Mike Harris wrote:
>Sent: 05 November 2009 7:57 AM >To: 'Tag discussion,strategy and related tools' >Cc: talk@... >Subject: Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been > >Dave > >May be wise to be careful here! I am deliberately cross-posting to 'talk' >group given the potential importance of the issue. > >Why do you assume that Ordnance Survey 7th Series mapping is NOT out of >copyright? > >As far as I know the Crown Copyright rule is 50 years. > >The 7th Series maps were published from 1952 to 1972 (with later >revisions). >My clock says it is 2009 now (;>) > >So if the source mapping happened to be one of the older ones (would need >to >know which individual sheet and revision) it could well be out of copyright >and legitimate. > >I thought that the problem was more that the nice people at OSM hadn't got >round to doing the rectification etc. to make the older 7th series mapping >readily available as an overlay like the NPE. > >Mike Harris > You can find npe and 7th series 1 inch mapping plus 1:25,000 (2.5 inch to the mile) 1st series on the dev server at: http://ooc.openstreetmap.org The default view is NPE, switch to the others using the layer selector. All three layers are available as a backcloth in Potlatch. And with some fixing, hopefully all in JOSM soon. NPE sheets are all out of copyright as are all the uploaded 1:25k sheets. As far as I am aware the 7th series sheets so far uploaded are only those that are out of copyright (some in Scotland). The rest will only come on line with their copyright expires. I'm happy to take questions related to the 1:25k 1st series maps but can't answer questions on the others. For more info on these series check out: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Out_of_copyright Cheers Andy > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tagging-bounces@... >> [mailto:tagging-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Dave F. >> Sent: 05 November 2009 03:03 >> To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools >> Subject: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been >> >> Hi >> >> I've a railway that has source as from 7th series maps, which >> aren't out of copyright yet. >> I think the user meant NPE (when was it introduced into OSM?) >> >> I can remove the tag from the current way but how do I remove >> from all the historic items? >> I remember this problem being discussed recently but I'm >> damned if I can find it. >> >> Cheers >> Dave F. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@... >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Tagging mailing list >Tagging@... >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk |
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Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been
by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
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On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Mike Harris <mikh43@...> wrote:
> Dave > > May be wise to be careful here! I am deliberately cross-posting to 'talk' > group given the potential importance of the issue. > > Why do you assume that Ordnance Survey 7th Series mapping is NOT out of > copyright? > > As far as I know the Crown Copyright rule is 50 years. > > The 7th Series maps were published from 1952 to 1972 (with later revisions). > My clock says it is 2009 now (;>) > > So if the source mapping happened to be one of the older ones (would need to > know which individual sheet and revision) it could well be out of copyright > and legitimate. > > I thought that the problem was more that the nice people at OSM hadn't got > round to doing the rectification etc. to make the older 7th series mapping > readily available as an overlay like the NPE. The 7th series is being rectified and already available for use as a backdrop in editors: http://ooc.openstreetmap.org/?zoom=12&lat=56.35194&lon=-4.96982&layers=0B00 _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk |
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Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been
by Mike Harris-10
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Excellent news ... I thought that the older 7th series were now legitimate
but hadn't realised how quickly the rectification had progressed! Thanks to all responsible for the hard work ... Mike Harris > -----Original Message----- > From: tagging-bounces@... > [mailto:tagging-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Andy > Robinson (blackadder-lists) > Sent: 05 November 2009 08:53 > To: 'Tag discussion,strategy and related tools' > Cc: talk@... > Subject: Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been > > Mike Harris wrote: > >Sent: 05 November 2009 7:57 AM > >To: 'Tag discussion,strategy and related tools' > >Cc: talk@... > >Subject: Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been > > > >Dave > > > >May be wise to be careful here! I am deliberately > cross-posting to 'talk' > >group given the potential importance of the issue. > > > >Why do you assume that Ordnance Survey 7th Series mapping is > NOT out of > >copyright? > > > >As far as I know the Crown Copyright rule is 50 years. > > > >The 7th Series maps were published from 1952 to 1972 (with later > >revisions). > >My clock says it is 2009 now (;>) > > > >So if the source mapping happened to be one of the older ones (would > >need to know which individual sheet and revision) it could > well be out > >of copyright and legitimate. > > > >I thought that the problem was more that the nice people at > OSM hadn't > >got round to doing the rectification etc. to make the older > 7th series > >mapping readily available as an overlay like the NPE. > > > >Mike Harris > > > > > You can find npe and 7th series 1 inch mapping plus 1:25,000 > (2.5 inch to the mile) 1st series on the dev server at: > > http://ooc.openstreetmap.org > > The default view is NPE, switch to the others using the layer > selector. All three layers are available as a backcloth in > Potlatch. And with some fixing, hopefully all in JOSM soon. > > NPE sheets are all out of copyright as are all the uploaded > 1:25k sheets. As far as I am aware the 7th series sheets so > far uploaded are only those that are out of copyright (some > in Scotland). The rest will only come on line with their > copyright expires. > > I'm happy to take questions related to the 1:25k 1st series > maps but can't answer questions on the others. > > For more info on these series check out: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Out_of_copyright > > Cheers > > Andy > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: tagging-bounces@... > >> [mailto:tagging-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Dave F. > >> Sent: 05 November 2009 03:03 > >> To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > >> Subject: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> I've a railway that has source as from 7th series maps, > which aren't > >> out of copyright yet. > >> I think the user meant NPE (when was it introduced into OSM?) > >> > >> I can remove the tag from the current way but how do I remove from > >> all the historic items? > >> I remember this problem being discussed recently but I'm > damned if I > >> can find it. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Dave F. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Tagging mailing list > >> Tagging@... > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Tagging mailing list > >Tagging@... > >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@... > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk |
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Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been
by Mike Harris-10
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Great news ... I underestimated my more technically competent colleagues ... But it does seem to confirm that (appropriately old) 7th srs OS mapping is now out of copyright and legit!
Mike Harris > -----Original Message----- > From: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason [mailto:avarab@...] > Sent: 05 November 2009 08:53 > To: Mike Harris > Cc: Tag discussion,strategy and related tools; talk@... > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it > shouldn't have been > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Mike Harris > <mikh43@...> wrote: > > Dave > > > > May be wise to be careful here! I am deliberately > cross-posting to 'talk' > > group given the potential importance of the issue. > > > > Why do you assume that Ordnance Survey 7th Series mapping > is NOT out > > of copyright? > > > > As far as I know the Crown Copyright rule is 50 years. > > > > The 7th Series maps were published from 1952 to 1972 (with > later revisions). > > My clock says it is 2009 now (;>) > > > > So if the source mapping happened to be one of the older > ones (would > > need to know which individual sheet and revision) it could > well be out > > of copyright and legitimate. > > > > I thought that the problem was more that the nice people at > OSM hadn't > > got round to doing the rectification etc. to make the older > 7th series > > mapping readily available as an overlay like the NPE. > > The 7th series is being rectified and already available for > use as a backdrop in editors: > http://ooc.openstreetmap.org/?zoom=12&lat=56.35194&lon=-4.9698 > 2&layers=0B00 _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk |
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Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been
by Steve Chilton-2
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As the driver/catalyst (or whatever term you want to use) behind the integration of the OS 7th series maps in OSM as source material I should perhaps just clarify the situation.
I own a complete set of flat sheets from the series. The copyright dates on the sheets varies considerably, but are starting to come out of date from now on. They are being sent to a bureau for hi-res scanning (paid for by myself and other interested parties) and then rectified via a process developed by Tim Shearman-Chase, which in turn builds on work by others such as Richard Fairhurst and Tim Waters. The list of crowd-rectifiers is noted on the webpage, which also gives more details (inc sheet dates): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/7th_Series Further details, inc licence terms and a graphic of progress, are available at: http://steve8.dev.openstreetmap.org/os7.htm There are more sheets that come out of copyright on 1 Jan 2010. These will be scanned and rectified ready to be released on that date. Nothing will be released until the 50 year rule for that particular sheet is complied with. For discussion on copyright see: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Out-of-copyright_maps There has been some discussion within OSM, and via a FOI request to OS, of the interpretation of 50 years - with regard to latest date on sheet VERSUS date of original publication. However, currently we are following the "better safe than sorry line" and NOT releasing anything via the more liberal interpretation, whilst investigating that tricky issue further. PS: whoever first started this thread might like to check that the item mentioned is in an area covered by the released o-o-c sheets. If it is not then the mapper may have sourced the information from a copyrighted OS 7th series map, which is not acceptable practice. Cheers STEVE -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces@... on behalf of Mike Harris Sent: Thu 05/11/2009 09:11 To: 'Tag discussion,strategy and related tools' Cc: talk@... Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been Excellent news ... I thought that the older 7th series were now legitimate but hadn't realised how quickly the rectification had progressed! Thanks to all responsible for the hard work ... Mike Harris > -----Original Message----- > From: tagging-bounces@... > [mailto:tagging-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Andy > Robinson (blackadder-lists) > Sent: 05 November 2009 08:53 > To: 'Tag discussion,strategy and related tools' > Cc: talk@... > Subject: Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been > > Mike Harris wrote: > >Sent: 05 November 2009 7:57 AM > >To: 'Tag discussion,strategy and related tools' > >Cc: talk@... > >Subject: Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been > > > >Dave > > > >May be wise to be careful here! I am deliberately > cross-posting to 'talk' > >group given the potential importance of the issue. > > > >Why do you assume that Ordnance Survey 7th Series mapping is > NOT out of > >copyright? > > > >As far as I know the Crown Copyright rule is 50 years. > > > >The 7th Series maps were published from 1952 to 1972 (with later > >revisions). > >My clock says it is 2009 now (;>) > > > >So if the source mapping happened to be one of the older ones (would > >need to know which individual sheet and revision) it could > well be out > >of copyright and legitimate. > > > >I thought that the problem was more that the nice people at > OSM hadn't > >got round to doing the rectification etc. to make the older > 7th series > >mapping readily available as an overlay like the NPE. > > > >Mike Harris > > > > > You can find npe and 7th series 1 inch mapping plus 1:25,000 > (2.5 inch to the mile) 1st series on the dev server at: > > http://ooc.openstreetmap.org <http://ooc.openstreetmap.org/> > > The default view is NPE, switch to the others using the layer > selector. All three layers are available as a backcloth in > Potlatch. And with some fixing, hopefully all in JOSM soon. > > NPE sheets are all out of copyright as are all the uploaded > 1:25k sheets. As far as I am aware the 7th series sheets so > far uploaded are only those that are out of copyright (some > in Scotland). The rest will only come on line with their > copyright expires. > > I'm happy to take questions related to the 1:25k 1st series > maps but can't answer questions on the others. > > For more info on these series check out: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Out_of_copyright > > Cheers > > Andy > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: tagging-bounces@... > >> [mailto:tagging-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Dave F. > >> Sent: 05 November 2009 03:03 > >> To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > >> Subject: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> I've a railway that has source as from 7th series maps, > which aren't > >> out of copyright yet. > >> I think the user meant NPE (when was it introduced into OSM?) > >> > >> I can remove the tag from the current way but how do I remove from > >> all the historic items? > >> I remember this problem being discussed recently but I'm > damned if I > >> can find it. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Dave F. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Tagging mailing list > >> Tagging@... > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Tagging mailing list > >Tagging@... > >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@... > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk |
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Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been
by Dave F.-2
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Steve Chilton wrote:
> As the driver/catalyst... These look good. Well scanned & IMO look better than the current series. _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk |
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Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been
by Morten Kjeldgaard
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Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote:
> You can find npe and 7th series 1 inch mapping plus 1:25,000 (2.5 inch to > the mile) 1st series on the dev server at: > > http://ooc.openstreetmap.org > > The default view is NPE, switch to the others using the layer selector. All > three layers are available as a backcloth in Potlatch. And with some fixing, > hopefully all in JOSM soon. Impressive! You Brits are lucky :-) Just out of curiousity: how accurate are those pre-satellite-age maps compared to the GPS-surveyed maps of OSM? Cheers, Morten _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk |
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Re: [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have been
by Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
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Morten Kjeldgaard [mailto:mok@...] wrote:
>Sent: 05 November 2009 1:15 PM >To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) >Cc: 'Tag discussion,strategy and related tools'; talk@... >Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Sourced from somewhere it shouldn't have >been > >Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: > >> You can find npe and 7th series 1 inch mapping plus 1:25,000 (2.5 inch to >> the mile) 1st series on the dev server at: >> >> http://ooc.openstreetmap.org >> >> The default view is NPE, switch to the others using the layer selector. >All >> three layers are available as a backcloth in Potlatch. And with some >fixing, >> hopefully all in JOSM soon. > >Impressive! You Brits are lucky :-) > >Just out of curiousity: how accurate are those pre-satellite-age maps >compared to the GPS-surveyed maps of OSM? For the older 1" maps the error can be quite high because the printing of the gridlines (which is used for rectification) was poor. The later 7th series will undoubtedly be better. For the 1:25,000 scale the printing of gridlines is very accurate so that principally leaves the errors that have always been present in the reference frame, which can be as much as 5m but generally not worse that that. Cheers Andy _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk |
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