Re: [mb-automods] Autoeditor Election: jesus2099 (me)

[Tristan / jesus2099]

Oh well guys.

Even if I know I won't be validated as autoeditor,
I don't really like to be gratuitiously walked over like that
by some insulting, inexperienced, immature but yet patronizing,
lame editor like Atedos.

You see Atedos, I can do it like you too, without even using capslock.
You take a little bit of truth and give it unproportionnal importance
compared with my correct edits' history.

Atedos, as well as Philip, Chad and Murdos, are you seriously thinking that
I would ever get the idea of doing such edits, that require discussion,
as auto-edits?
I am very disapointed that people get to think I'm such a moron, really.

I have some obsessions at times and put them into discussions.
(proper duet track artist -important-, casing -trivial-, genuine names for unique artists -important-,
I am not a hacker or something like that, my purpose is not to destroy.
If I'm not clear enough:
I WOULDN'T GODDAMN AUTOEDIT ANYTHING
THAT IS NOT SELF EVIDENT ACCORDING TO WRITTEN GUIDELINES.

I really thought that was obvious.
Because you don't like this or that, you really think I'm a moron.
But, and that is perfectly natural and healthy that any autoeditor's
point of vue on this or that particular point is also likely to be
discussed at times.

# Nikki #

Nikki already addressed some of Chad, Murdos and Philip concerns
better than I could with my english.

I would like to reply to what came afterwards for other voters to read.

# Chad #

Mailing list, well this shouldn't be an issue anymore,
I created a silly e-mail to avoid spam.
I did that before you told me that bothered you, Chad.

Chad, you could also witness this kind of behaviour (referring to my forum post) in many edit notes by autoeditors.
In lack of guidelines they advocate their habits / preference,
his is human I guess.
My forum post in the other hand is more public and subject to counter
opinion. I think I am being more fair than many already.
When something was like this I created forum threads.

# Philip #

You're maybe thinking about [^Vietnamese typography rules].
This is not formalized even in Việt Nam so I don't understand why you
would want me to agree with you and not you to agree with me?

What makes you think your word has more value than mine?

This has nothing to do with typography but I think I have at least
as much vietnamese knowledge as you, my vnm blog, for instance,
was even featured in some sunday Tuổi trẻ newspaper article [^blogviet].
(Article without space before colon! :D)

And I don't see how I have been more prone not to settle this issue
than you? Our situations are strictly the same.
You say A, I say B. Both A and B coexist over there.
How was I more obrstusive than you were?
Did I delete your scans? No.
Did you delete mine? No.
Did I critisized you or your position? No.

We agree on casing that is already something important.
Now spacing before punctuation, there is no agreement because there is no
consistency even in Việt Nam.
So let's say we just copy the backcover for this when we (rarely) have to
make a choice.
We should just remove the part on space/no-space before punctuation from the final version of Capitalization Standard Vietnamese

# Atedos #

Atedos, please provide some examples/references of what you assert.
I highly doubt I tried to change wrong release language if it was not a mistake (a mistake compared with >10000 OK non-autoedits) that I would
have then promptly fixed.

So, I don't listen to others?
Again, please provide informative links to illustrate that.

"The pot calling the kettle black"
(="C'est l'hôpital qui se moque de la charité")

I'm quite puzzled because, coming from Atedos, such an assert is strange.
The only thing I remember about him crossing my way
(besides me/him voting yes to numerous his/my good edits,
and we haven't "meet" that often anyway),
was that time when he both voted
1. NO to my merging or renaming of a romanized japanese artist
   to his native name (like we do for Mozart etc.)
   and also voted
2. NO to the alternative which was to create the new jpn artist
   with a ''performs as'' AR between them [^yamaoka].

Then he made a certain amount of edits fail and supported the deletion
of the genuine japanese artist name [^delete yamaoka] while keeping
the romanization.
His attitude was not constructive at all, making everybody loose
much time and me re-editing over again.
How could he not allow the genuine name in?
I think that was quite childish and obstrusive so to say.

And then, few days later, Atedos was "promoted" autoeditor,
I must say that was quite a shock to me.

Having just witnessed something so stubborn I wouldn't have ever done
but, yet having been myself refused once already (maybe because of french
capitalization conflict with dmppanda or something like that, roughly).
I thought there was a high exigence level to being elected but in the end
I saw that it was also a matter of luck and coincidences, sort of.

But well, I was OK with it. Because besides having acted like shit
and having a very low edit-count
(like only 95 release additions [^atedos 2301 edits] and 2301 edits)...
besides that, he was actively voting (1501 votes [^atedos 1501 votes])
so I eventually agreed as I respect and value votes
(time consuming, demanding, very important).

Saying I shouldn't use capslock is erh... like if I said
you should have stopped using your "=\\" smiley.
My capslock are usually intended to make people smile.
Well, I know humour is very difficult to convey in foreign languages,
sorry for my very bad sense of humour then.
Maybe I should write more emotionless and more serious.

Maybe I forgot some times where I used capslock on you and that it wasn't
for making humour...
Once again, links would be rather welcome to back-up your assertion that
I was aggressive.

What I can say on my part is that you always sounded very patronizing,
like in [^delete yamaoka] where you tell me, how bad it would be to
keep 2 identical artists after having blocked my attempt of keeping only
one by setting his genuine name (again like Mozart, Tchaikovsky
and friends). I have never been in favor of duplicating an artist* with
its romanization or any other transcription [^my artist merges].
I, too, prefer merging. But you blocked that process.

And you know, autoeditors should show the right example, shouldn't they? ;)

* Duets' collaboration artists are something else, another problem
due to limitations and for which I resigned to also use unique artist


PS.
I'm writing this quite rapidely in reaction with what I just read,
I have very high workload now to think properly,
I hope I am not being more impolite than Atedos.


It seems only small group of people (under)stands me.
I'm OK staying normal editor. Although autoeditor would certainly ease
some of my MB editings and also I feel so much criticism seems quite too
much for somehting I wouldn't do and compared with some other autoeditors
who only do a small fraction of my activities here.

I should be the one who feels not comfortable,
please stop being not comfortable. ;D


OK, let's do send this.


Cheers everybody!
Tristan is jesus2099.


[^Vietnamese typography rules]: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Talk:Capitalization_Standard_Vietnamese
[^blogviet]: http://j2.ions.fr/blogviet/2006/07/nhng-lp-hc-khng-bin-gii.html


[^yamaoka]: http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=8870313
[^delete yamaoka]: http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9043683
[^my artist merges]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&mod_type=6&moderator_type=3&moderator_id=285909&voter_type=0&voter_id=285909&artist_type=0&orderby=asc&minid=&maxid=&isreset=0


[^atedos 2301 edits]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&mod_type=16&moderator_type=3&moderator_id=317944&voter_type=0&voter_id=285909&artist_type=0&orderby=desc&minid=&maxid=2008-07-08+20%3A00%3A03+CEST&isreset=0
[^atedos 1501 votes]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&moderator_type=0&moderator_id=285909&voter_type=1&voter_id=317944&vote_cast=0&vote_cast=1&artist_type=0&orderby=desc&minid=&maxid=2008-07-08+20%3A00%3A03+CEST&isreset=0


--- En date de : Mer 1.4.09, Atedos <atedos@...> a écrit :

> De: Atedos <atedos@...>
> Objet: Re: [mb-automods] Autoeditor Election: jesus2099
> À: "Discussion among auto-moderators" <musicbrainz-automods@...>
> Date: Mercredi 1 Avril 2009, 23h33
> I'm personally against such nomination.
> Not to say he is stubborn, his understanding of guidelines
> is very specific,
> and has it's own way. He doesn't take in account
> other opinions/positions,
> and always operates by himself, basing on his own
> principle.
> It was said right, when there can be achieved no solution
> with him.
> Not to say it seems he doesn't know basic rules (I can
> remember changing
> wrong release language, using unicode character we refused
> to use to). He
> also makes dozens of edits, which quality is under
> question.
> His manner of dialog is sometimes aggressive (shouting,
> capslock), and once
> again, it looks like he doesn't listen to others, doing
> on his own.
> That not an autoeditor I'd like to see.
> My vote is No.

     

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MusicBrainz-users mailing list
MusicBrainz-users@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users

[Aaron Cooper-3]

The behaviour demonstrated in your first paragraph is exactly the kind
of thing that determined my vote.

-cooperaa


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Tristan / jesus2099
<vienschez-prout@...> wrote:

>
> Oh well guys.
>
> Even if I know I won't be validated as autoeditor,
> I don't really like to be gratuitiously walked over like that
> by some insulting, inexperienced, immature but yet patronizing,
> lame editor like Atedos.
>
> You see Atedos, I can do it like you too, without even using capslock.
> You take a little bit of truth and give it unproportionnal importance
> compared with my correct edits' history.
>
> Atedos, as well as Philip, Chad and Murdos, are you seriously thinking that
> I would ever get the idea of doing such edits, that require discussion,
> as auto-edits?
> I am very disapointed that people get to think I'm such a moron, really.
>
> I have some obsessions at times and put them into discussions.
> (proper duet track artist -important-, casing -trivial-, genuine names for unique artists -important-,
> I am not a hacker or something like that, my purpose is not to destroy.
> If I'm not clear enough:
> I WOULDN'T GODDAMN AUTOEDIT ANYTHING
> THAT IS NOT SELF EVIDENT ACCORDING TO WRITTEN GUIDELINES.
>
> I really thought that was obvious.
> Because you don't like this or that, you really think I'm a moron.
> But, and that is perfectly natural and healthy that any autoeditor's
> point of vue on this or that particular point is also likely to be
> discussed at times.
>
> # Nikki #
>
> Nikki already addressed some of Chad, Murdos and Philip concerns
> better than I could with my english.
>
> I would like to reply to what came afterwards for other voters to read.
>
> # Chad #
>
> Mailing list, well this shouldn't be an issue anymore,
> I created a silly e-mail to avoid spam.
> I did that before you told me that bothered you, Chad.
>
> Chad, you could also witness this kind of behaviour (referring to my forum post) in many edit notes by autoeditors.
> In lack of guidelines they advocate their habits / preference,
> his is human I guess.
> My forum post in the other hand is more public and subject to counter
> opinion. I think I am being more fair than many already.
> When something was like this I created forum threads.
>
> # Philip #
>
> You're maybe thinking about [^Vietnamese typography rules].
> This is not formalized even in Việt Nam so I don't understand why you
> would want me to agree with you and not you to agree with me?
>
> What makes you think your word has more value than mine?
>
> This has nothing to do with typography but I think I have at least
> as much vietnamese knowledge as you, my vnm blog, for instance,
> was even featured in some sunday Tuổi trẻ newspaper article [^blogviet].
> (Article without space before colon! :D)
>
> And I don't see how I have been more prone not to settle this issue
> than you? Our situations are strictly the same.
> You say A, I say B. Both A and B coexist over there.
> How was I more obrstusive than you were?
> Did I delete your scans? No.
> Did you delete mine? No.
> Did I critisized you or your position? No.
>
> We agree on casing that is already something important.
> Now spacing before punctuation, there is no agreement because there is no
> consistency even in Việt Nam.
> So let's say we just copy the backcover for this when we (rarely) have to
> make a choice.
> We should just remove the part on space/no-space before punctuation from the final version of Capitalization Standard Vietnamese
>
> # Atedos #
>
> Atedos, please provide some examples/references of what you assert.
> I highly doubt I tried to change wrong release language if it was not a mistake (a mistake compared with >10000 OK non-autoedits) that I would
> have then promptly fixed.
>
> So, I don't listen to others?
> Again, please provide informative links to illustrate that.
>
> "The pot calling the kettle black"
> (="C'est l'hôpital qui se moque de la charité")
>
> I'm quite puzzled because, coming from Atedos, such an assert is strange.
> The only thing I remember about him crossing my way
> (besides me/him voting yes to numerous his/my good edits,
> and we haven't "meet" that often anyway),
> was that time when he both voted
> 1. NO to my merging or renaming of a romanized japanese artist
>   to his native name (like we do for Mozart etc.)
>   and also voted
> 2. NO to the alternative which was to create the new jpn artist
>   with a ''performs as'' AR between them [^yamaoka].
>
> Then he made a certain amount of edits fail and supported the deletion
> of the genuine japanese artist name [^delete yamaoka] while keeping
> the romanization.
> His attitude was not constructive at all, making everybody loose
> much time and me re-editing over again.
> How could he not allow the genuine name in?
> I think that was quite childish and obstrusive so to say.
>
> And then, few days later, Atedos was "promoted" autoeditor,
> I must say that was quite a shock to me.
>
> Having just witnessed something so stubborn I wouldn't have ever done
> but, yet having been myself refused once already (maybe because of french
> capitalization conflict with dmppanda or something like that, roughly).
> I thought there was a high exigence level to being elected but in the end
> I saw that it was also a matter of luck and coincidences, sort of.
>
> But well, I was OK with it. Because besides having acted like shit
> and having a very low edit-count
> (like only 95 release additions [^atedos 2301 edits] and 2301 edits)...
> besides that, he was actively voting (1501 votes [^atedos 1501 votes])
> so I eventually agreed as I respect and value votes
> (time consuming, demanding, very important).
>
> Saying I shouldn't use capslock is erh... like if I said
> you should have stopped using your "=\\" smiley.
> My capslock are usually intended to make people smile.
> Well, I know humour is very difficult to convey in foreign languages,
> sorry for my very bad sense of humour then.
> Maybe I should write more emotionless and more serious.
>
> Maybe I forgot some times where I used capslock on you and that it wasn't
> for making humour...
> Once again, links would be rather welcome to back-up your assertion that
> I was aggressive.
>
> What I can say on my part is that you always sounded very patronizing,
> like in [^delete yamaoka] where you tell me, how bad it would be to
> keep 2 identical artists after having blocked my attempt of keeping only
> one by setting his genuine name (again like Mozart, Tchaikovsky
> and friends). I have never been in favor of duplicating an artist* with
> its romanization or any other transcription [^my artist merges].
> I, too, prefer merging. But you blocked that process.
>
> And you know, autoeditors should show the right example, shouldn't they? ;)
>
> * Duets' collaboration artists are something else, another problem
> due to limitations and for which I resigned to also use unique artist
>
>
> PS.
> I'm writing this quite rapidely in reaction with what I just read,
> I have very high workload now to think properly,
> I hope I am not being more impolite than Atedos.
>
>
> It seems only small group of people (under)stands me.
> I'm OK staying normal editor. Although autoeditor would certainly ease
> some of my MB editings and also I feel so much criticism seems quite too
> much for somehting I wouldn't do and compared with some other autoeditors
> who only do a small fraction of my activities here.
>
> I should be the one who feels not comfortable,
> please stop being not comfortable. ;D
>
>
> OK, let's do send this.
>
>
> Cheers everybody!
> Tristan is jesus2099.
>
>
> [^Vietnamese typography rules]: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Talk:Capitalization_Standard_Vietnamese
> [^blogviet]: http://j2.ions.fr/blogviet/2006/07/nhng-lp-hc-khng-bin-gii.html
>
>
> [^yamaoka]: http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=8870313
> [^delete yamaoka]: http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9043683
> [^my artist merges]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&mod_type=6&moderator_type=3&moderator_id=285909&voter_type=0&voter_id=285909&artist_type=0&orderby=asc&minid=&maxid=&isreset=0
>
>
> [^atedos 2301 edits]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&mod_type=16&moderator_type=3&moderator_id=317944&voter_type=0&voter_id=285909&artist_type=0&orderby=desc&minid=&maxid=2008-07-08+20%3A00%3A03+CEST&isreset=0
> [^atedos 1501 votes]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&moderator_type=0&moderator_id=285909&voter_type=1&voter_id=317944&vote_cast=0&vote_cast=1&artist_type=0&orderby=desc&minid=&maxid=2008-07-08+20%3A00%3A03+CEST&isreset=0
>
>
> --- En date de : Mer 1.4.09, Atedos <atedos@...> a écrit :
>
>> De: Atedos <atedos@...>
>> Objet: Re: [mb-automods] Autoeditor Election: jesus2099
>> À: "Discussion among auto-moderators" <musicbrainz-automods@...>
>> Date: Mercredi 1 Avril 2009, 23h33
>> I'm personally against such nomination.
>> Not to say he is stubborn, his understanding of guidelines
>> is very specific,
>> and has it's own way. He doesn't take in account
>> other opinions/positions,
>> and always operates by himself, basing on his own
>> principle.
>> It was said right, when there can be achieved no solution
>> with him.
>> Not to say it seems he doesn't know basic rules (I can
>> remember changing
>> wrong release language, using unicode character we refused
>> to use to). He
>> also makes dozens of edits, which quality is under
>> question.
>> His manner of dialog is sometimes aggressive (shouting,
>> capslock), and once
>> again, it looks like he doesn't listen to others, doing
>> on his own.
>> That not an autoeditor I'd like to see.
>> My vote is No.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-users mailing list
> MusicBrainz-users@...
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users

_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-users mailing list
MusicBrainz-users@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users

[Atedos-2]

I am indisposed to search through all those edits, and I have no time for this.
I have no idea how to search through edit notes for you, let's say, being offensive to others (though your letter here talks for itself).

But these were pretty easy to find:
http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9013006
http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9013145
http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9013159

And another case we have clear guideline you didn't follow:
http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=10151896

I'd understand, if it was some sort of a miss or something, but it looks like you see your way the only one right.

You also can't compare modern Akira Yamaoka with classical/symphonic artists. It is different field of work, and not everything applies to both. I still find all those your changes as a bad idea though.

Concerning capslock: I didn't tell a word about you putting smiles. Capslock makes the text hardly readable, while smiles usually tend for better understanding.

And yeah, it looks like the quantity of edits is more important for you, rather than their quality.

2009/4/2 Tristan / jesus2099 <vienschez-prout@...>

Oh well guys.

Even if I know I won't be validated as autoeditor,
I don't really like to be gratuitiously walked over like that
by some insulting, inexperienced, immature but yet patronizing,
lame editor like Atedos.

You see Atedos, I can do it like you too, without even using capslock.
You take a little bit of truth and give it unproportionnal importance
compared with my correct edits' history.

Atedos, as well as Philip, Chad and Murdos, are you seriously thinking that
I would ever get the idea of doing such edits, that require discussion,
as auto-edits?
I am very disapointed that people get to think I'm such a moron, really.

I have some obsessions at times and put them into discussions.
(proper duet track artist -important-, casing -trivial-, genuine names for unique artists -important-,
I am not a hacker or something like that, my purpose is not to destroy.
If I'm not clear enough:
I WOULDN'T GODDAMN AUTOEDIT ANYTHING
THAT IS NOT SELF EVIDENT ACCORDING TO WRITTEN GUIDELINES.

I really thought that was obvious.
Because you don't like this or that, you really think I'm a moron.
But, and that is perfectly natural and healthy that any autoeditor's
point of vue on this or that particular point is also likely to be
discussed at times.

# Nikki #

Nikki already addressed some of Chad, Murdos and Philip concerns
better than I could with my english.

I would like to reply to what came afterwards for other voters to read.

# Chad #

Mailing list, well this shouldn't be an issue anymore,
I created a silly e-mail to avoid spam.
I did that before you told me that bothered you, Chad.

Chad, you could also witness this kind of behaviour (referring to my forum post) in many edit notes by autoeditors.
In lack of guidelines they advocate their habits / preference,
his is human I guess.
My forum post in the other hand is more public and subject to counter
opinion. I think I am being more fair than many already.
When something was like this I created forum threads.

# Philip #

You're maybe thinking about [^Vietnamese typography rules].
This is not formalized even in Việt Nam so I don't understand why you
would want me to agree with you and not you to agree with me?

What makes you think your word has more value than mine?

This has nothing to do with typography but I think I have at least
as much vietnamese knowledge as you, my vnm blog, for instance,
was even featured in some sunday Tuổi trẻ newspaper article [^blogviet].
(Article without space before colon! :D)

And I don't see how I have been more prone not to settle this issue
than you? Our situations are strictly the same.
You say A, I say B. Both A and B coexist over there.
How was I more obrstusive than you were?
Did I delete your scans? No.
Did you delete mine? No.
Did I critisized you or your position? No.

We agree on casing that is already something important.
Now spacing before punctuation, there is no agreement because there is no
consistency even in Việt Nam.
So let's say we just copy the backcover for this when we (rarely) have to
make a choice.
We should just remove the part on space/no-space before punctuation from the final version of Capitalization Standard Vietnamese

# Atedos #

Atedos, please provide some examples/references of what you assert.
I highly doubt I tried to change wrong release language if it was not a mistake (a mistake compared with >10000 OK non-autoedits) that I would
have then promptly fixed.

So, I don't listen to others?
Again, please provide informative links to illustrate that.

"The pot calling the kettle black"
(="C'est l'hôpital qui se moque de la charité")

I'm quite puzzled because, coming from Atedos, such an assert is strange.
The only thing I remember about him crossing my way
(besides me/him voting yes to numerous his/my good edits,
and we haven't "meet" that often anyway),
was that time when he both voted
1. NO to my merging or renaming of a romanized japanese artist
  to his native name (like we do for Mozart etc.)
  and also voted
2. NO to the alternative which was to create the new jpn artist
  with a ''performs as'' AR between them [^yamaoka].

Then he made a certain amount of edits fail and supported the deletion
of the genuine japanese artist name [^delete yamaoka] while keeping
the romanization.
His attitude was not constructive at all, making everybody loose
much time and me re-editing over again.
How could he not allow the genuine name in?
I think that was quite childish and obstrusive so to say.

And then, few days later, Atedos was "promoted" autoeditor,
I must say that was quite a shock to me.

Having just witnessed something so stubborn I wouldn't have ever done
but, yet having been myself refused once already (maybe because of french
capitalization conflict with dmppanda or something like that, roughly).
I thought there was a high exigence level to being elected but in the end
I saw that it was also a matter of luck and coincidences, sort of.

But well, I was OK with it. Because besides having acted like shit
and having a very low edit-count
(like only 95 release additions [^atedos 2301 edits] and 2301 edits)...
besides that, he was actively voting (1501 votes [^atedos 1501 votes])
so I eventually agreed as I respect and value votes
(time consuming, demanding, very important).

Saying I shouldn't use capslock is erh... like if I said
you should have stopped using your "=\\" smiley.
My capslock are usually intended to make people smile.
Well, I know humour is very difficult to convey in foreign languages,
sorry for my very bad sense of humour then.
Maybe I should write more emotionless and more serious.

Maybe I forgot some times where I used capslock on you and that it wasn't
for making humour...
Once again, links would be rather welcome to back-up your assertion that
I was aggressive.

What I can say on my part is that you always sounded very patronizing,
like in [^delete yamaoka] where you tell me, how bad it would be to
keep 2 identical artists after having blocked my attempt of keeping only
one by setting his genuine name (again like Mozart, Tchaikovsky
and friends). I have never been in favor of duplicating an artist* with
its romanization or any other transcription [^my artist merges].
I, too, prefer merging. But you blocked that process.

And you know, autoeditors should show the right example, shouldn't they? ;)

* Duets' collaboration artists are something else, another problem
due to limitations and for which I resigned to also use unique artist


PS.
I'm writing this quite rapidely in reaction with what I just read,
I have very high workload now to think properly,
I hope I am not being more impolite than Atedos.


It seems only small group of people (under)stands me.
I'm OK staying normal editor. Although autoeditor would certainly ease
some of my MB editings and also I feel so much criticism seems quite too
much for somehting I wouldn't do and compared with some other autoeditors
who only do a small fraction of my activities here.

I should be the one who feels not comfortable,
please stop being not comfortable. ;D


OK, let's do send this.


Cheers everybody!
Tristan is jesus2099.


[^Vietnamese typography rules]: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Talk:Capitalization_Standard_Vietnamese
[^blogviet]: http://j2.ions.fr/blogviet/2006/07/nhng-lp-hc-khng-bin-gii.html


[^yamaoka]: http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=8870313
[^delete yamaoka]: http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9043683
[^my artist merges]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&mod_type=6&moderator_type=3&moderator_id=285909&voter_type=0&voter_id=285909&artist_type=0&orderby=asc&minid=&maxid=&isreset=0


[^atedos 2301 edits]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&mod_type=16&moderator_type=3&moderator_id=317944&voter_type=0&voter_id=285909&artist_type=0&orderby=desc&minid=&maxid=2008-07-08+20%3A00%3A03+CEST&isreset=0
[^atedos 1501 votes]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&moderator_type=0&moderator_id=285909&voter_type=1&voter_id=317944&vote_cast=0&vote_cast=1&artist_type=0&orderby=desc&minid=&maxid=2008-07-08+20%3A00%3A03+CEST&isreset=0


--- En date de : Mer 1.4.09, Atedos <atedos@...> a écrit :

> De: Atedos <atedos@...>
> Objet: Re: [mb-automods] Autoeditor Election: jesus2099
> À: "Discussion among auto-moderators" <musicbrainz-automods@...>
> Date: Mercredi 1 Avril 2009, 23h33
> I'm personally against such nomination.
> Not to say he is stubborn, his understanding of guidelines
> is very specific,
> and has it's own way. He doesn't take in account
> other opinions/positions,
> and always operates by himself, basing on his own
> principle.
> It was said right, when there can be achieved no solution
> with him.
> Not to say it seems he doesn't know basic rules (I can
> remember changing
> wrong release language, using unicode character we refused
> to use to). He
> also makes dozens of edits, which quality is under
> question.
> His manner of dialog is sometimes aggressive (shouting,
> capslock), and once
> again, it looks like he doesn't listen to others, doing
> on his own.
> That not an autoeditor I'd like to see.
> My vote is No.







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[Tristan / jesus2099]

Was your vote "no"?
Maybe, you should have read the second paragraph. :)))
LOLZ

--- En date de : Jeu 2.4.09, Aaron Cooper <cooperaa@...> a écrit :

> De: Aaron Cooper <cooperaa@...>
> Objet: Re: [mb-users] [mb-automods] Autoeditor Election: jesus2099 (me)
> À: vienschez-prout@..., "General discussions about MusicBrainz" <musicbrainz-users@...>
> Date: Jeudi 2 Avril 2009, 22h03
> The behaviour demonstrated in your first paragraph is
> exactly the kind
> of thing that determined my vote.
>
> -cooperaa
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Tristan / jesus2099
> <vienschez-prout@...> wrote:
> >
> > Oh well guys.
> >
> > Even if I know I won't be validated as autoeditor,
> > I don't really like to be gratuitiously walked
> over like that
> > by some insulting, inexperienced, immature but yet
> patronizing,
> > lame editor like Atedos.
> >
> > You see Atedos, I can do it like you too, without even
> using capslock.
> > You take a little bit of truth and give it
> unproportionnal importance
> > compared with my correct edits' history.

     

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[Philip Jägenstedt-3]

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Tristan / jesus2099
<vienschez-prout@...> wrote:

>
> Oh well guys.
>
> Even if I know I won't be validated as autoeditor,
> I don't really like to be gratuitiously walked over like that
> by some insulting, inexperienced, immature but yet patronizing,
> lame editor like Atedos.
>
> You see Atedos, I can do it like you too, without even using capslock.
> You take a little bit of truth and give it unproportionnal importance
> compared with my correct edits' history.
>
> Atedos, as well as Philip, Chad and Murdos, are you seriously thinking that
> I would ever get the idea of doing such edits, that require discussion,
> as auto-edits?
> I am very disapointed that people get to think I'm such a moron, really.
>
> I have some obsessions at times and put them into discussions.
> (proper duet track artist -important-, casing -trivial-, genuine names for unique artists -important-,
> I am not a hacker or something like that, my purpose is not to destroy.
> If I'm not clear enough:
> I WOULDN'T GODDAMN AUTOEDIT ANYTHING
> THAT IS NOT SELF EVIDENT ACCORDING TO WRITTEN GUIDELINES.
>
> I really thought that was obvious.
> Because you don't like this or that, you really think I'm a moron.
> But, and that is perfectly natural and healthy that any autoeditor's
> point of vue on this or that particular point is also likely to be
> discussed at times.
>
> # Nikki #
>
> Nikki already addressed some of Chad, Murdos and Philip concerns
> better than I could with my english.
>
> I would like to reply to what came afterwards for other voters to read.
>
> # Chad #
>
> Mailing list, well this shouldn't be an issue anymore,
> I created a silly e-mail to avoid spam.
> I did that before you told me that bothered you, Chad.
>
> Chad, you could also witness this kind of behaviour (referring to my forum post) in many edit notes by autoeditors.
> In lack of guidelines they advocate their habits / preference,
> his is human I guess.
> My forum post in the other hand is more public and subject to counter
> opinion. I think I am being more fair than many already.
> When something was like this I created forum threads.
>
> # Philip #
>
> You're maybe thinking about [^Vietnamese typography rules].
> This is not formalized even in Việt Nam so I don't understand why you
> would want me to agree with you and not you to agree with me?
>
> What makes you think your word has more value than mine?

It's not important who's right on this matter (or any other particular
dispute), what I value is being able to reach some conclusion to a
discussion. Sorry if you think calling you stubborn is unfair, I don't
know how else to describe the feeling of debating you. Perhaps I'm the
stubborn one and everyone except you just gives up after a while :)

> This has nothing to do with typography but I think I have at least
> as much vietnamese knowledge as you, my vnm blog, for instance,
> was even featured in some sunday Tuổi trẻ newspaper article [^blogviet].
> (Article without space before colon! :D)

Yes, of course you know Vietnamese 100x better than I do and I'm sure
the style you propose is used sometimes. However, after searching the
top Vietnamese sights, sending a scout to a Hanoi bookstore and
personally browsing through 80 Vietnamese books at my library it
rather clear that the more common convention is "English" style
punctuation both in digital and printed form.

But in any case, let's not discuss this style issue in the middle of
this nomination thing...

> And I don't see how I have been more prone not to settle this issue
> than you? Our situations are strictly the same.
> You say A, I say B. Both A and B coexist over there.
> How was I more obrstusive than you were?
> Did I delete your scans? No.
> Did you delete mine? No.
> Did I critisized you or your position? No.
>
> We agree on casing that is already something important.
> Now spacing before punctuation, there is no agreement because there is no
> consistency even in Việt Nam.
> So let's say we just copy the backcover for this when we (rarely) have to
> make a choice.
> We should just remove the part on space/no-space before punctuation from the final version of Capitalization Standard Vietnamese

I think that we've always been very civil to each other and quite
enjoy our discussions, my objection is just that you quite like going
slightly against guidelines or conventions but don't really finish it
off by having the guidelines changed. I suppose I could vote yes if I
was confident that you'd turn off autoeditor priviledges for those
kinds of edits... actually I do believe you would do that. Now this
discussion is much too heated though so I will simply abstain and see
how I feel again in a few days.

I hope you agreed to this nomination before it was made, otherwise
it's not fair to get this kind of criticism. If you did know about the
nomination then you must be prepared for this kind of stuff though and
I don't think anyone has been outright rude in their criticism even if
I don't agree with all of it.

Anyway, I hope that you'll keep me company with the Asian artists in
the future too, no matter how this election works out...

> # Atedos #
>
> Atedos, please provide some examples/references of what you assert.
> I highly doubt I tried to change wrong release language if it was not a mistake (a mistake compared with >10000 OK non-autoedits) that I would
> have then promptly fixed.
>
> So, I don't listen to others?
> Again, please provide informative links to illustrate that.
>
> "The pot calling the kettle black"
> (="C'est l'hôpital qui se moque de la charité")
>
> I'm quite puzzled because, coming from Atedos, such an assert is strange.
> The only thing I remember about him crossing my way
> (besides me/him voting yes to numerous his/my good edits,
> and we haven't "meet" that often anyway),
> was that time when he both voted
> 1. NO to my merging or renaming of a romanized japanese artist
>   to his native name (like we do for Mozart etc.)
>   and also voted
> 2. NO to the alternative which was to create the new jpn artist
>   with a ''performs as'' AR between them [^yamaoka].
>
> Then he made a certain amount of edits fail and supported the deletion
> of the genuine japanese artist name [^delete yamaoka] while keeping
> the romanization.
> His attitude was not constructive at all, making everybody loose
> much time and me re-editing over again.
> How could he not allow the genuine name in?
> I think that was quite childish and obstrusive so to say.
>
> And then, few days later, Atedos was "promoted" autoeditor,
> I must say that was quite a shock to me.
>
> Having just witnessed something so stubborn I wouldn't have ever done
> but, yet having been myself refused once already (maybe because of french
> capitalization conflict with dmppanda or something like that, roughly).
> I thought there was a high exigence level to being elected but in the end
> I saw that it was also a matter of luck and coincidences, sort of.
>
> But well, I was OK with it. Because besides having acted like shit
> and having a very low edit-count
> (like only 95 release additions [^atedos 2301 edits] and 2301 edits)...
> besides that, he was actively voting (1501 votes [^atedos 1501 votes])
> so I eventually agreed as I respect and value votes
> (time consuming, demanding, very important).
>
> Saying I shouldn't use capslock is erh... like if I said
> you should have stopped using your "=\\" smiley.
> My capslock are usually intended to make people smile.
> Well, I know humour is very difficult to convey in foreign languages,
> sorry for my very bad sense of humour then.
> Maybe I should write more emotionless and more serious.
>
> Maybe I forgot some times where I used capslock on you and that it wasn't
> for making humour...
> Once again, links would be rather welcome to back-up your assertion that
> I was aggressive.
>
> What I can say on my part is that you always sounded very patronizing,
> like in [^delete yamaoka] where you tell me, how bad it would be to
> keep 2 identical artists after having blocked my attempt of keeping only
> one by setting his genuine name (again like Mozart, Tchaikovsky
> and friends). I have never been in favor of duplicating an artist* with
> its romanization or any other transcription [^my artist merges].
> I, too, prefer merging. But you blocked that process.
>
> And you know, autoeditors should show the right example, shouldn't they? ;)
>
> * Duets' collaboration artists are something else, another problem
> due to limitations and for which I resigned to also use unique artist
>
>
> PS.
> I'm writing this quite rapidely in reaction with what I just read,
> I have very high workload now to think properly,
> I hope I am not being more impolite than Atedos.
>
>
> It seems only small group of people (under)stands me.
> I'm OK staying normal editor. Although autoeditor would certainly ease
> some of my MB editings and also I feel so much criticism seems quite too
> much for somehting I wouldn't do and compared with some other autoeditors
> who only do a small fraction of my activities here.
>
> I should be the one who feels not comfortable,
> please stop being not comfortable. ;D
>
>
> OK, let's do send this.
>
>
> Cheers everybody!
> Tristan is jesus2099.
>
>
> [^Vietnamese typography rules]: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Talk:Capitalization_Standard_Vietnamese
> [^blogviet]: http://j2.ions.fr/blogviet/2006/07/nhng-lp-hc-khng-bin-gii.html
>
>
> [^yamaoka]: http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=8870313
> [^delete yamaoka]: http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=9043683
> [^my artist merges]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&mod_type=6&moderator_type=3&moderator_id=285909&voter_type=0&voter_id=285909&artist_type=0&orderby=asc&minid=&maxid=&isreset=0
>
>
> [^atedos 2301 edits]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&mod_type=16&moderator_type=3&moderator_id=317944&voter_type=0&voter_id=285909&artist_type=0&orderby=desc&minid=&maxid=2008-07-08+20%3A00%3A03+CEST&isreset=0
> [^atedos 1501 votes]: http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?automod=&moderator_type=0&moderator_id=285909&voter_type=1&voter_id=317944&vote_cast=0&vote_cast=1&artist_type=0&orderby=desc&minid=&maxid=2008-07-08+20%3A00%3A03+CEST&isreset=0
>
>
> --- En date de : Mer 1.4.09, Atedos <atedos@...> a écrit :
>
>> De: Atedos <atedos@...>
>> Objet: Re: [mb-automods] Autoeditor Election: jesus2099
>> À: "Discussion among auto-moderators" <musicbrainz-automods@...>
>> Date: Mercredi 1 Avril 2009, 23h33
>> I'm personally against such nomination.
>> Not to say he is stubborn, his understanding of guidelines
>> is very specific,
>> and has it's own way. He doesn't take in account
>> other opinions/positions,
>> and always operates by himself, basing on his own
>> principle.
>> It was said right, when there can be achieved no solution
>> with him.
>> Not to say it seems he doesn't know basic rules (I can
>> remember changing
>> wrong release language, using unicode character we refused
>> to use to). He
>> also makes dozens of edits, which quality is under
>> question.
>> His manner of dialog is sometimes aggressive (shouting,
>> capslock), and once
>> again, it looks like he doesn't listen to others, doing
>> on his own.
>> That not an autoeditor I'd like to see.
>> My vote is No.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-users mailing list
> MusicBrainz-users@...
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users

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