Re: AmazonRelationship: Special cases

> On 13/03/2009 9:06 a.m., SwissChris wrote:
>> Sorry, Chad, but I strongly disagree with your point of view – and
>> with your philosophy. For me you argue on a principle which seems to
>> be "laws are laws and they have to be enforced, whatever the cost".
> Rubbish. I wrote down exactly the reasons that the rules are there; how
> is that saying "rules are rules"? I disagree on your alleged "cost".
> That cost from your perspective is a benefit to me.
>
>> What we're having here are Style'''Guidelines''', not Style'''Laws'''
>> (and we're not even in the domain of StrongGuidelines). And we have a
>> specific problem, which you seem to ignore completely in your answer.
> No, i did not ignore it, I said I don't agree that what you see as a
> problem is a problem. And said
>
> "I don't understand why this is an issue. Link to any non-IMPORT version.
> Often there will be multiple. We can't control the script that Amazon
> use on their pages, but it still doesn't make sense to me to use an
> IMPORT on .com for a Japanese release just because .co.jp transliterates
> the English to Kanji. Users can always set up preferred Amazon domains
> in their preferences, as can anyone syndicating our data."
>
>> Bettercom has tried to give a sensible answer to a "special case",
>> based on our guidelines at doc:AmazonRelationshipType which specify
>> "It is ''preferred'' to enter the version of the amazon store which
>> sells the original version"  and "The purpose of the Amazon
>> relationship is to provide cover images, ''but also additional
>> information'' for releases". Based on this he made the well reflected
>> choice to link not (only) to the Japanese site, which not only does
>> not give the actual track listing of the release (which is in french
>> on the CD cover), but only a transliteration in Kanji, but also has no
>> "additional information" for all MB-users not familiar with Japanese.
>> Bettercoms way of dealing with a "special case" makes sense IMO and
>> has the advantage of being user-friendly. He was voted down with
>> formalistic arguments (probably also a communication problem, since
>> all involved editors AFAIK, and as it often happens, had to explain
>> themselves in a foreign language...).
> His example is not the "special case" you and he seem to think it is. A
> very high percentage of Western American or British mainstream releases
> have a Japanese version with bonus tracks, only available non-IMPORT in
> Japan. Most of them will use kanji on .co.jp.
>
> Your attitudes appear to be entirely Euro/Western centric. You argue for
> convenience of Latin-reading Westerners of the origin artist's country,
> not Japanese locals (for instance). Given Amazon choose to use Kanji,
> it's obviously of convenience to /someone/ (Japanese) to have the titles
> transliterated for sales purposes. What's convenient for you is
> inconvenient for someone else.
>
> That's why I specifically mention a point which you fail to address,
> also mentioned above, and repeated again:
>
> "Users can always set up preferred Amazon domains
> in their preferences, as can anyone syndicating our data."
>
>> I see a few cases where listing to an non-primary (“import“)
>> amazon-ASIN can make sense and should be tolerated – or even
>> encouraged (maybe in addition to the primary link, since more than one
>> amazon link can be entered):
>> 1. When the "import" mention on amazon is obviously wrong (often the
>> case on amazon.fr <http://amazon.fr>)
> Yes, this clearly should be done, if it's an Amazon error. I'm not
> arguing against this case.
>
>> And that links *may* not work for an eternity is no argument: this
>> happens all the times to links provided on MB: fan pages closing down,
>> official sites disappearing, record labels being discontinued…
> It's a completely rational argument. If you have a choice between buying
> products A and B, which are say fundamentally the same, except A will
> probably last longer than B, would you decide to buy B instead just
> because product C, which you also buy, has a tendency to break? That
> doesn't make sense, it's comparing apples with oranges, instead of A with B.
>
> Fundamentally, I don't agree with moves to make the choice of domain
> more subjective. Your suggestions appear to veer down a path of choosing
> what is more convenient to /you/ rather than more convenient to
> everyone. Personal preferences should be removed from the guidelines as
> much as possible, which is why we have the objective guideline of using
> a non-import "home of original release" page. That is why we have user
> preferences in MB itself, so if you want to have your Amazon
> click-throughs go to .fr all the time, you can already do so.
>
> Chad / voiceinsideyou
>
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