Re: Bug#514023: lists.debian.org: Request for debian-blends mailing list

[Andreas Tille]

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Cord Beermann wrote:

>> the name debian-blends.  The rationale behind this is that
>> the debian-custom list is overloaded with to in principle
>> different topics:
>
> Please follow the guidelines for new lists at
>
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list

Name:  debian-blends
Rationale: The rationale behind this is that
  the debian-custom list is overloaded with to in principle
  different topics:

   1. Issues concerning Custom Debian Distributions which
      are now renamed to Debian Pure Blends.  This fact
      itself might be a valid reason to register a new
      list - but the old list might have worked so far if
      the list description would have been fixed.
   2. Issues regarding SimpleCDD and ways how to customize
      your very own customized Debian.  This discussion is
      orthogonal to the sense of Debian Pure Blends and is
      finally the main reason for this whole stupid renaming
      business: Bluring the topic because of missunderstandings
      of the concept.

  While the discussion of issues of type 2 is perfectly valid
  we just would leave the old list which was intended to serve
  as discussion forum for CDDs / Blends to those who like to
  do other things and ask for a new mailing list debian-blends.

Short description: Development issues of Debian Pure Blends.

Long description: Debian Pure Blends (formerly known as Custom
  Debian Distributions) provide support for special user interests.
  They implement a new approach to cover interests of specialised
  users, who might be children, lawyers, medical staff, visually
  impaired people, etc. Of late, several Debian Pure Blends have
  evolved. The common goal of those is to make installation and
  administration of computers for their target users as easy as
  possible, and to serve in the role as the missing link between
  software developers and users well.
  .
  You can get more information at
      http://blends.alioth.debian.org/blends/

Category: Developers
Subscription Policy: Open
Post Policy: Open
Web Archive: Yes

> After filing the request, it would be very much appreciated if several
> other people interested in the new list would send a mail to the bug,
> in order to record their interest.

So I foreward this mail to debian-custom and hope that people
will go on posting their interest.

> Yours,
>        Cord, Debian Listmaster of the day

Thanks to you and the listmaster of the other days. ;-)

     Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-custom-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

[David Paleino]

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 23:00:29 +0100 (CET), Andreas Tille wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Cord Beermann wrote:
>
> > After filing the request, it would be very much appreciated if several
> > other people interested in the new list would send a mail to the bug,
> > in order to record their interest.
>
> So I foreward this mail to debian-custom and hope that people
> will go on posting their interest.

Please do create debian-blends@, for the reasons Andreas already exposed.

Ciao,
David

--
 . ''`.  Debian maintainer | http://wiki.debian.org/DavidPaleino
 : :'  : Linuxer #334216 --|-- http://www.hanskalabs.net/
 `. `'`  GPG: 1392B174 ----|---- http://snipr.com/qa_page
   `-   2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174

[Andreas Tille]

Hi,

hope the keyword "New name" in the subject attracts enough interest
(at least this worked half a year ago) for people who support the final
step of the renaming process: Please send an e-mail to
514023@... that you support the creation of the debian-blends
mailing list.

Kind regards

           Andreas.


On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, David Paleino wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 23:00:29 +0100 (CET), Andreas Tille wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Cord Beermann wrote:
>>
>>> After filing the request, it would be very much appreciated if several
>>> other people interested in the new list would send a mail to the bug,
>>> in order to record their interest.
>>
>> So I foreward this mail to debian-custom and hope that people
>> will go on posting their interest.
>
> Please do create debian-blends@, for the reasons Andreas already exposed.
>
> Ciao,
> David
>
> --
> . ''`.  Debian maintainer | http://wiki.debian.org/DavidPaleino
> : :'  : Linuxer #334216 --|-- http://www.hanskalabs.net/
> `. `'`  GPG: 1392B174 ----|---- http://snipr.com/qa_page
>   `-   2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174
>

--
http://fam-tille.de


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-custom-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

[David Moreno-7]

On 23:00 Wed 04 Feb 2009, Andreas Tille wrote:

> Rationale: The rationale behind this is that
>  the debian-custom list is overloaded with to in principle
>  different topics:
>
>   1. Issues concerning Custom Debian Distributions which
>      are now renamed to Debian Pure Blends.  This fact
>      itself might be a valid reason to register a new
>      list - but the old list might have worked so far if
>      the list description would have been fixed.
>   2. Issues regarding SimpleCDD and ways how to customize
>      your very own customized Debian.  This discussion is
>      orthogonal to the sense of Debian Pure Blends and is
>      finally the main reason for this whole stupid renaming
>      business: Bluring the topic because of missunderstandings
>      of the concept.

It's my understanding that Debian Pure Blends is the rename of the CDD
project. Is that correct? If it's basically the same thing, I believe
renaming the list would suffice, unless there's an actual reason why to
leave -custom orphaned and unattended.

>  While the discussion of issues of type 2 is perfectly valid
>  we just would leave the old list which was intended to serve
>  as discussion forum for CDDs / Blends to those who like to
>  do other things and ask for a new mailing list debian-blends.

I see no difference on renaming the list and re-start using it as Pure
Blends. It makes not too much sense to just drop other list which
archive could be useful for other people too and pretend that the CDD
list was never there.

Please consider my opinions above.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-custom-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

[Andreas Tille]

On Thu, 12 Mar 2009, David Moreno wrote:

> It's my understanding that Debian Pure Blends is the rename of the CDD
> project. Is that correct?

Yes.

> If it's basically the same thing, I believe
> renaming the list would suffice, unless there's an actual reason why to
> leave -custom orphaned and unattended.

No.  The main reason for the renaming is that the former name was
missleading and people used the custom list for discussion about things
which was not the original target of the former CDD now Blends effort.
The list was used for discussion about how to customise your private
Debian  customisation and things like that.  This was perfectly reasonable
and interesting discussion but leaded to endless missunderstandings
especially for newcomers.

So a simple renaming of the list would leave people into this topic
alone and they would not find a reasonable place to discuss these
issues.  The perfect solution would be to manually investigate all
the past mails and tag those who are Blends related and move only
these to the new list.  I would even spend some time on this issue
if this is technically possible and would not be to complicated.
But IMHO just renaming the list is not a good solution.

> I see no difference on renaming the list and re-start using it as Pure
> Blends. It makes not too much sense to just drop other list which
> archive could be useful for other people too and pretend that the CDD
> list was never there.

Well, we definitely have a loss of information on the new Blends list
but I try to solve this by some links to important threads (if the
chance to take over some mails from the past just is to expensive.

> Please consider my opinions above.

Well, I have considered it several times.  From a Blends point of
view it would be a better solution to just to rename the list.  But
I'd regard it just unfair against those people who would miss a forum
for the customisation issues.

Kind regards

       Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-custom-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

[David Moreno-7]

On 09:24 Fri 13 Mar 2009, Andreas Tille wrote:

> No.  The main reason for the renaming is that the former name was
> missleading and people used the custom list for discussion about things
> which was not the original target of the former CDD now Blends effort.
> The list was used for discussion about how to customise your private
> Debian  customisation and things like that.  This was perfectly reasonable
> and interesting discussion but leaded to endless missunderstandings
> especially for newcomers.
>
> So a simple renaming of the list would leave people into this topic
> alone and they would not find a reasonable place to discuss these
> issues.  The perfect solution would be to manually investigate all
> the past mails and tag those who are Blends related and move only
> these to the new list.  I would even spend some time on this issue
> if this is technically possible and would not be to complicated.
> But IMHO just renaming the list is not a good solution.
>
>> I see no difference on renaming the list and re-start using it as Pure
>> Blends. It makes not too much sense to just drop other list which
>> archive could be useful for other people too and pretend that the CDD
>> list was never there.
>
> Well, we definitely have a loss of information on the new Blends list
> but I try to solve this by some links to important threads (if the
> chance to take over some mails from the past just is to expensive.

I understand it. So, this is what I think.

Given that the debian-custom mailing list was created for the same
purpose and reason why Blends was born, which is providing a discussion
forum for Debian-based distribution, it's a bit a difficult right now to
take into account those users who started taking the list as a forum for
Debian pimping. Given that this is only a matter of a general more
global naming confusion, I strongly support the outcome of renaming the
list now and redirecting and pointing users who still think it's a forum
for Debian customization to the appropiate mailing list, such as
debian-user (or its localized variations).

If we created a different mailing list for Blends, this would lead us to
have similar discussions (both -user and -custom) on two different
places whereas they certainly belong to a single one (-user).

If by any chance, there's an specific need for a customization talk
mailing list, such a list would have to follow the usual list-creation
procedure as any other new mailing list and the listmasters would
consider it, but as of now, it really makes not much sense to me.

D.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-custom-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

[Andreas Tille]

On Fri, 13 Mar 2009, David Moreno wrote:

> If we created a different mailing list for Blends, this would lead us to
> have similar discussions (both -user and -custom) on two different
> places whereas they certainly belong to a single one (-user).

OK.

> If by any chance, there's an specific need for a customization talk
> mailing list, such a list would have to follow the usual list-creation
> procedure as any other new mailing list and the listmasters would
> consider it, but as of now, it really makes not much sense to me.

I'm perfectly fine with your suggestion.

Kind regards

       Andreas.
--
http://fam-tille.de


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-custom-REQUEST@...
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...