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Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?
by Dan Stowell
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M. Petre. Why looking isn’t always seeing: readership skills and
graphical programming. Communications of the ACM, 38(6):33–44, 1995.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/203241.203251
"
Graphical representations are more challenging than they appear at
first. This article refers to research results to consider why the
attractions of graphical representations are not matched by
performance, putting forth the arguments:
• that much of what contributes to the comprehensibility of a
graphical representation isn’t part of the formal programming notation
but a ‘secondary notation’ of layout, typographic cues, and graphical
enhancements that is subject to individual skill;
• that graphical readership is an acquired skill: structure,
relationships, and relevance aren’t universally obvious;
• that experts ‘see’ differently and use different strategies from
novice graphical programmers;
• that, although some of their touted qualities may be illusory,
graphical representations are nevertheless persistently appealing and
that this appeal may have its own value;
• that the role of graphics in notation must be addressed
realistically, rather than simplistically.
"
2009/4/24, Uri Sala <urisala@...>:
> Dear list,
> Would you give someone a fork to eat soup? Sorry about the cheap analogy,
> but it breaks my heart every time I think that 75% of the theoretical
> knowledge I have received in electronic music has been using Max/MSP. Most
> of the young and more inexperienced guys at school have a hard time grasping
> the concepts of electronic music. I am totally convinced that if they used
> SC they would learn much faster. Can anybody explain to my why the myth that
> coding is hard and that having a screen full of spaghetti makes it easier to
> program is still in vogue? I really don't get it. I mean, really. Actually I
> do, or I think I do. When the beginning electronic music student sees a Max
> patch, he only sees the end result, that is, a nice GUI, and thinks WOW, max
> looks neat. They never think that, under that nice looking main patch is
> hidden a maze of subpatches, until they start patching themselves. I am sure
> that, eventually along the line, every Max user gets the "god there are so
> many cables and windows open, maybe text would actually be better" - kind of
> feeling. I did, only it took me about a week.
> I am quite known among my friends in the conservatory for my strong
> feelings about SC, and my increasing unease every time a teacher tries to
> shove Max down our throats, clogging the screen with nonsense to do
> something that would take 1 line in SC.
> Some people might argue it is a matter of personal preference. Well, let me
> get intransigent: it is not. Ruby vs Python is a valid dilemma. Coding vs
> dragging is not. Just look around. Do you know any (non musical)
> programmers? What do they use? Little boxes and cables? Ask any of them
> whether they think it would be better to program in that way and you're
> likely to get a laugh. Of course many people have done great programming
> with Max. I once ate a soup with a fork too. Hey, even Miller Puckette said
> that Max was not thought out to program with, just to use as patcher for C
> modules.
> I wanted to ask whether anyone knows of a text somewhere that exposes what
> I just said in more objective, less altered terms? If not, I would like to
> know the opinion of the forum. I promise to collect the strongest points,
> print them and post them all over town.
>
> Sorry about the rant, but I cannot stand bad reasoning. I will have my pill
> now.
>
> Cheers
> Uri
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.):
> http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/sc_mailing_lists.shtml
> archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
> search:
> http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/
>
--
http://www.mcld.co.uk
_______________________________________________
sc-users mailing list
info (subscription, etc.): http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/sc_mailing_lists.shtml
archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/
graphical programming. Communications of the ACM, 38(6):33–44, 1995.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/203241.203251
"
Graphical representations are more challenging than they appear at
first. This article refers to research results to consider why the
attractions of graphical representations are not matched by
performance, putting forth the arguments:
• that much of what contributes to the comprehensibility of a
graphical representation isn’t part of the formal programming notation
but a ‘secondary notation’ of layout, typographic cues, and graphical
enhancements that is subject to individual skill;
• that graphical readership is an acquired skill: structure,
relationships, and relevance aren’t universally obvious;
• that experts ‘see’ differently and use different strategies from
novice graphical programmers;
• that, although some of their touted qualities may be illusory,
graphical representations are nevertheless persistently appealing and
that this appeal may have its own value;
• that the role of graphics in notation must be addressed
realistically, rather than simplistically.
"
2009/4/24, Uri Sala <urisala@...>:
> Dear list,
> Would you give someone a fork to eat soup? Sorry about the cheap analogy,
> but it breaks my heart every time I think that 75% of the theoretical
> knowledge I have received in electronic music has been using Max/MSP. Most
> of the young and more inexperienced guys at school have a hard time grasping
> the concepts of electronic music. I am totally convinced that if they used
> SC they would learn much faster. Can anybody explain to my why the myth that
> coding is hard and that having a screen full of spaghetti makes it easier to
> program is still in vogue? I really don't get it. I mean, really. Actually I
> do, or I think I do. When the beginning electronic music student sees a Max
> patch, he only sees the end result, that is, a nice GUI, and thinks WOW, max
> looks neat. They never think that, under that nice looking main patch is
> hidden a maze of subpatches, until they start patching themselves. I am sure
> that, eventually along the line, every Max user gets the "god there are so
> many cables and windows open, maybe text would actually be better" - kind of
> feeling. I did, only it took me about a week.
> I am quite known among my friends in the conservatory for my strong
> feelings about SC, and my increasing unease every time a teacher tries to
> shove Max down our throats, clogging the screen with nonsense to do
> something that would take 1 line in SC.
> Some people might argue it is a matter of personal preference. Well, let me
> get intransigent: it is not. Ruby vs Python is a valid dilemma. Coding vs
> dragging is not. Just look around. Do you know any (non musical)
> programmers? What do they use? Little boxes and cables? Ask any of them
> whether they think it would be better to program in that way and you're
> likely to get a laugh. Of course many people have done great programming
> with Max. I once ate a soup with a fork too. Hey, even Miller Puckette said
> that Max was not thought out to program with, just to use as patcher for C
> modules.
> I wanted to ask whether anyone knows of a text somewhere that exposes what
> I just said in more objective, less altered terms? If not, I would like to
> know the opinion of the forum. I promise to collect the strongest points,
> print them and post them all over town.
>
> Sorry about the rant, but I cannot stand bad reasoning. I will have my pill
> now.
>
> Cheers
> Uri
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.):
> http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/sc_mailing_lists.shtml
> archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
> search:
> http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/
>
--
http://www.mcld.co.uk
_______________________________________________
sc-users mailing list
info (subscription, etc.): http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/sc_mailing_lists.shtml
archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/
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