Re: Copyright progress

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Re: Copyright progress

by Leif Skoogfors :: Rate this Message:

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From our friends at EPUK:

http://copyrightaction.com/forum/the-real-cost-of-being-sued-by-getty

Why doesn't Getty or Corbis start action in US?

Leif Skoogfors

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Re: Re: Copyright progress

by Bob Croxford :: Rate this Message:

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On 26 Oct 2009, at 14:12, Leif Skoogfors wrote:

> From our friends at EPUK:
>
> http://copyrightaction.com/forum/the-real-cost-of-being-sued-by-getty
>
> Why doesn't Getty or Corbis start action in US?
>
> Leif Skoogfors

Dear Leif

I have been studying this quite a bit recently. I think that there  
are relatively few copyright cases that go to court in the UK because  
the UK law is fairly clear cut. Cases are all dealt with in one court  
and heard by a small number of judges who are experts in IP law. The  
result is that most people settle out of court because their expert  
lawyers advise it.

By contrast it seems that in the US a copyright case can go any  
number of ways in any number of states with the result that US  
precedent is nothing like so clear cut. There are lawyers in both the  
UK and the USA who are making a very good living out of writing  
'template' letters in answer to Getty. One particular US lawyer has  
written many hundred at about $150 a time. As far as I can see he has  
no deep experience of copyright but will take on anything. His most  
famous client seems to be a rapper called Shyne. Search his name and  
Getty and you will get an idea what photographers are up against.

Bob Croxford

www.atmosphere.co.uk




Parent Message unknown RE: Re: Copyright progress

by Ryan McGinnis-2 :: Rate this Message:

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I believe there are at least a couple of ongoing cases in the U.S.  Most of the time Getty sends these infringement issues to collections or settles them before filing a suit, in which case we don't hear about them unless the infringer decides to blog about it or something.

-Ryan McGinnis

Sent via smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Leif Skoogfors <skoogfors@...>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:12 AM
To: STOCKPHOTO@...
Subject: [STOCKPHOTO] Re: Copyright progress

From our friends at EPUK:

http://copyrightaction.com/forum/the-real-cost-of-being-sued-by-getty

Why doesn't Getty or Corbis start action in US?

Leif Skoogfors

--
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Parent Message unknown RE: Re: Copyright progress

by Ryan McGinnis-2 :: Rate this Message:

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I would argue that U.S. i.p. law is much stronger than the i.p. law of the U.K.; the potential (statutory) damage amounts are certainly much higher.  Also, such cases are all heard in Federal court, so state laws don't really have as much bearing.  

-Ryan McGinnis

Sent via smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Croxford <bobcroxford@...>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 12:34 PM
To: STOCKPHOTO@...
Subject: Re: [STOCKPHOTO] Re: Copyright progress

On 26 Oct 2009, at 14:12, Leif Skoogfors wrote:

> From our friends at EPUK:
>
> http://copyrightaction.com/forum/the-real-cost-of-being-sued-by-getty
>
> Why doesn't Getty or Corbis start action in US?
>
> Leif Skoogfors

Dear Leif

I have been studying this quite a bit recently. I think that there  
are relatively few copyright cases that go to court in the UK because  
the UK law is fairly clear cut. Cases are all dealt with in one court  
and heard by a small number of judges who are experts in IP law. The  
result is that most people settle out of court because their expert  
lawyers advise it.

By contrast it seems that in the US a copyright case can go any  
number of ways in any number of states with the result that US  
precedent is nothing like so clear cut. There are lawyers in both the  
UK and the USA who are making a very good living out of writing  
'template' letters in answer to Getty. One particular US lawyer has  
written many hundred at about $150 a time. As far as I can see he has  
no deep experience of copyright but will take on anything. His most  
famous client seems to be a rapper called Shyne. Search his name and  
Getty and you will get an idea what photographers are up against.

Bob Croxford

www.atmosphere.co.uk





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    Reproduction of STOCKPHOTO posts require permission of author
  Posting Rules - http://www.stockphoto.net/Subscriptions.php#rules 
    STOCKPHOTO Archives - http://www.stockphoto.net/Archives.php
     STOCKPHOTO Bookstore - http://www.stockphoto.net/bookstore/
----------------------------------------------------------------------Yahoo! Groups Links





Parent Message unknown Re: Copyright progress

by Joseph Pobereskin :: Rate this Message:

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Leif Skoogfors wrote:

> Why doesn't Getty or Corbis start action in US?


I believe it's the difference in copyright law that keeps Getty Images  
out of US District Court:  in order to collect statutory damages &  
recoup attorneys' fees the images infringed upon must be registered  
with the Library of Congress and 90% of photographers do not register  
their work.  That fact makes it a fool's errand to sue, Getty couldn't  
possibly collect anything worthwhile.

To be certain, the fault lies with *photographers* and not Getty Images.

(bet you never thought you'd see me defending them!  me too)

My 2¢,

Joe Pobereskin

PS:  PhotoPlus was a bust without my hot dog eating pals
--
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http://pobereskin.com v3.0
+1 (847) 215-1794

Joe's Private Stock
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Re: Re: Copyright progress

by Len Holsborg :: Rate this Message:

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Yes, none of us are perfect (although some might argue ;-}  ), but sometimes photographers, being the 'creative, artistic' types that we are (or aspire to be), can be our own worst enemies when it comes to mundane legal and other matters that detract us from our missions.

Case in point, related to this Sheperd Fairy case, let's not forget that there still seems to be some contention as to who owns the ©, Manny Garcia as a freelancer, or the AP who says Manny was a staffer and thus under 'work for hire' rules. To me, it's either clear or it is not, or at least should be, but without the 'facts' I can only speculate.

A basic understanding of © law and business law should be a fundamental prerequisite for any producer of intellectual property, as boring and as mundane as acquiring that knowledge may be. Anything less is not only incompetent, but, as this and other cases have proven time and time again, can be downright career threatening or financially devastating.

As for those hot dogs (or lack thereof) at the expo last week, my personal situation prevented me from attending this year due to cbmc (circumstances beyond my control), one of the few expos I've not attended over the years.

Perhaps next year.........if there is still a stock photo industry............

regards,



Len Holsborg

http://lenholsborg.com 

images also available @
http://gettyimages.com/photonica 
http://alamy.com 
http://cgibackgrounds.com 

rights managed licensing exclusively



-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Pobereskin <joseph@...>
To: stockphoto@...
Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 10:57 am
Subject: [STOCKPHOTO] Re: Copyright progress


 



Leif Skoogfors wrote:

> Why doesn't Getty or Corbis start action in US?

I believe it's the difference in copyright law that keeps Getty Images
out of US District Court: in order to collect statutory damages &
recoup attorneys' fees the images infringed upon must be registered
with the Library of Congress and 90% of photographers do not register
their work. That fact makes it a fool's errand to sue, Getty couldn't
possibly collect anything worthwhile.

To be certain, the fault lies with *photographers* and not Getty Images.

(bet you never thought you'd see me defending them! me too)

My 2¢,

Joe Pobereskin

PS: PhotoPlus was a bust without my hot dog eating pals
--
Joseph Pobereskin Photography | Chicago
http://pobereskin.com v3.0
+1 (847) 215-1794

Joe's Private Stock
http://tinyurl.com/pobereskin

"Eat At Joe's"
http://cafejoetogo.blogspot.com

Member - C3 http://www.chicagocreative.org
Member - PLUS Coalition http://www.useplus.org
Member - SAA http://www.stockartistsalliance.org
Member/Director - ASMP Chicago http://www.chimwasmp.org
-------------------------------------------------------
Why do I need T.V. when I've got T-Rex?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Parent Message unknown Re: Copyright progress

by Leif Skoogfors :: Rate this Message:

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*Joe Poderskin wrote:*
*
*
*I believe it's the difference in copyright law that keeps Getty Images
out of US District Court: in order to collect statutory damages &
recoup attorneys' fees the images infringed upon must be registered
with the Library of Congress and 90% of photographers do not register
their work. That fact makes it a fool's errand to sue, Getty couldn't
possibly collect anything worthwhile.

To be certain, the fault lies with *photographers* and not Getty Images.*

* (bet you never thought you'd see me defending them! me too)*

Joe,

I've registered every photograph on Corbis. They have a program to register
all work
you have on line if you choose. It is a terrific program, something Getty
should have picked up
on as well.

In not one of the hundreds of infringements I've reported to Corbis have
they acted. Some
of the infringers include willful infringements, large deep pocket media
figures, and large
corporations running them image with the Corbis watermark still on it.

"the fault lies with the photographers...."

I beg to disagree, ever so politely.

Leif Skoogfors



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CONFIDENTIAL
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the recipient and may contain information that is copyrighted, privileged,
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recipient, please do not copy disseminate, or distribute this communication,
by e-mail or otherwise. Instead, please notify us immediately by return
e-mail and  delete and discard all copies of this e-mail.
Thank you.


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Re: Re: Copyright progress

by Ryan McGinnis-2 :: Rate this Message:

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On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Leif Skoogfors <skoogfors@...> wrote:
> *Joe Poderskin wrote:*

> I've registered every photograph on Corbis. They have a program to register
> all work
> you have on line if you choose. It is a terrific program, something Getty
> should have picked up
> on as well.

I asked Getty about this, and they said that there are two main
reasons why this isn't feasible.  One, it wouldn't be cost effective
(it's a lot of internal paperwork, with the photographer first having
to assign their copyright to Getty Images, presumably to have the
copyright then assigned back to the photographer after registration.)
Two, when they consulted with the United States Copyright Office, they
were told that the U.S. Government simply could not handle the kind of
volume that Getty was considering putting into the system.  So while
they encourage everyone to register their copyrights, they know full
well that if everyone who submitted to Getty actually registered their
copyrights, the U.S. Copyright Office would grind to a halt.


-Ryan McGinnis
The BIG Storm Picture -- http://bigstormpicture.com
Vortex-2 image licensing at http://vortex-2.com
Getty: http://www.gettyimages.com/search/search.aspx?artist=Ryan+McGinnis

Parent Message unknown Re: Copyright progress

by Joseph Pobereskin :: Rate this Message:

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Leif Skoogfors wrote:

> the infringers include willful infringements, large deep pocket media
> figures, and large
> corporations running them image with the Corbis watermark still on it.

Leif,

It's a "Catch 22" for them, their clients are the infringers and if  
they sue their clients then they won't have any.

The rest of the problem is indeed with the photographers who don't  
register, they think of it as being too much work.  Another part is  
that, as I recall, when Corbis started the registration program they  
wanted the photographers to assign the copyrights to Corbis... and so  
many balked at that idea.  Read Ryan McGinnis' post about that.

JP

--
Joseph Pobereskin Photography | Chicago
http://pobereskin.com v3.0
+1 (847) 215-1794

Joe's Private Stock
http://tinyurl.com/pobereskin

"Eat At Joe's"
http://cafejoetogo.blogspot.com

Member - C3 http://www.chicagocreative.org
Member - PLUS Coalition http://www.useplus.org
Member - SAA http://www.stockartistsalliance.org
Member/Director - ASMP Chicago http://www.chimwasmp.org
-------------------------------------------------------
Why do I need T.V. when I've got T-Rex?














Re: Re: Copyright progress

by Stockphoto Seller :: Rate this Message:

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"...if everyone who submitted to Getty actually registered their
copyrights, the U.S. Copyright Office would grind to a halt."
 
This just might be a good thing if it produced movement toward getting rid of the unnecessary registration procedure in the U.S. in order to get full benefit of copyright protection.
 
Carl May


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