Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.

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	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Per Andersson-3 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary <secretary@...> wrote: > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > list. Can't women nominate themselves? Best regards, Per -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Steve Langasek :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary > <secretary@...> wrote: > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > > list. > Can't women nominate themselves? Clearly the Project Secretary's mail was a clever troll intended to trick our female developers into standing for DPL. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@... vorlon@... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Kurt Roeckx :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary > <secretary@...> wrote: > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > > list. > > Can't women nominate themselves? Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace it by "the candidate". Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Wouter Verhelst :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11:16PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary > > <secretary@...> wrote: > > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > > > list. > > > > Can't women nominate themselves? > > Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace > it by "the candidate". You mean I can nominate someone else? ;-P (suggested phrasing: "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" this nicely avoids gender issues while not having to use single plural idiosynchracies) -- <Lo-lan-do> Home is where you have to wash the dishes. -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Steve McIntyre-2 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:46:31PM +0100, Debian Project Secretary wrote: >Hi, > >The nomination period for the DPL election is almost over. If you >want to nominate yourself as canidate you need to send a signed >mail to the debian-vote@... list. I hereby nominate myself as a candidate in the DPL election 2009. Platform to follow shortly. Apologies for leaving this so late: I've been unsure whether or not I wanted to stand again this year, but after a lot of pestering by friends I've decided I should. If elected, I will be appointing an assistant to help with the workload. Luk Claes has volunteered to be that person, and I thank him for that. :-) -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@... Into the distance, a ribbon of black Stretched to the point of no turning back signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Kurt Roeckx :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11:16PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary > > > <secretary@...> wrote: > > > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > > > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > > > > list. > > > > > > Can't women nominate themselves? > > > > Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace > > it by "the candidate". > > (suggested phrasing: > > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" I only noticed the "he", but "himself" is of course also a problem. Thank you for the suggestion. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Kurt Roeckx :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 01:36:04PM +0000, Steve McIntyre wrote: > On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:46:31PM +0100, Debian Project Secretary wrote: > >Hi, > > > >The nomination period for the DPL election is almost over. If you > >want to nominate yourself as canidate you need to send a signed > >mail to the debian-vote@... list. > > I hereby nominate myself as a candidate in the DPL election > 2009. Platform to follow shortly. Your nomination has been received and is valid. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Per Andersson-3 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Kurt Roeckx <kurt@...> wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: >> On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11:16PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: >> > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: >> > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary >> > > <secretary@...> wrote: >> > > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in >> > > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... >> > > > list. >> > > >> > > Can't women nominate themselves? >> > >> > Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace >> > it by "the candidate". >> >> (suggested phrasing: >> >> "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they >> nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > > I only noticed the "he", but "himself" is of course also a > problem. Thank you for the suggestion. Thanks for listening and taking this issue seriously. Best regards, Per > Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Steve Langasek :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > You mean I can nominate someone else? ;-P > (suggested phrasing: > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > this nicely avoids gender issues while not having to use single plural > idiosynchracies) "a Debian Developers"? :) -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@... vorlon@... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Luca Filipozzi :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:53:17AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > > > this nicely avoids gender issues while not having to use single plural > > idiosynchracies) > > "a Debian Developers"? :) "can"? "lists"? How about... In order for their self-nominations to be considered valid, Debian Developers must send a GPG-signed email in which they nominate themselves to the debian-vote@... mailing list. -- Luca Filipozzi, Director of Operations, UBC Electrical and Computer Engineering -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Carsten Hey :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:53:17AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > > "a Debian Developers"? :) How about "To be valid, a Debian Developer can send a signed email nominating themselves to the debian-vote@... lists"? (I'm not a native speaker.) Regards Carsten -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by MJ Ray-2 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Carsten Hey <c.hey@...> wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:53:17AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > > > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > > > > "a Debian Developers"? :) > > How about "To be valid, a Debian Developer can send a signed email > nominating themselves to the debian-vote@... lists"? That treads on the singular "they" landmine. Also, it sounds like it's the Debian Developer's validity in question. How about "Debian Developers may nominate themselves by sending a signed email to debian-vote@..."? How about "Shepherds Bush (Central line)"? > (I'm not a native speaker.) Noted. Thanks for playing anyway! -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Matthew Johnson-12 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sun Mar 08 23:40, MJ Ray wrote: > > How about "Shepherds Bush (Central line)"? > How about accepting that "he" is the gender-neutral pronoun in English? -- Matthew Johnson signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Ben Finney-5 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Matthew Johnson <mjj29@...> writes: > How about accepting that "he" is the gender-neutral pronoun in > English? Because that's not true; “he” is a male-gender pronoun. The pronoun “he” is sometimes awkwardly and explicitly defined for gender-neutral use in specific cases, but it's never the case that “he” is by default understood to be gender-neutral. The English gender-neutral singular pronoun for people, if such a pronoun exists in English, is “they”. If someone disagrees, they are welcome to fight the tide and historical usage, but I think they are fooling themselves. -- \ “Reichel's Law: A body on vacation tends to remain on vacation \| `\ unless acted upon by an outside force.” —Carol Reichel \| _o__) \| Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Lars Wirzenius-5 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message ma, 2009-03-09 kello 19:37 +1100, Ben Finney kirjoitti: > Matthew Johnson <mjj29@...> writes: > > > How about accepting that "he" is the gender-neutral pronoun in > > English? > > Because that's not true; “he” is a male-gender pronoun. While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about platforms and some Q&A with the candidates? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Marco d'Itri :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message liw@... wrote: >While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th >iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about >platforms and some Q&A with the candidates? Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position wrt this PC bullshit. So candidates, what do you think about this? -- ciao, Marco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Stefano Zacchiroli :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 02:39:46PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: > Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position > wrt this PC bullshit. > So candidates, what do you think about this? [ Just assuming this was a serious question, otherwise shame on me for keeping this thread alive. ] 1) It costs nothing to fix the text for the next time: it is de facto boilerplate. 2) It costs nothing in the future to take the request in private with the poster, to avoid bothering readers with the 12767th iteration (2 more after Lars wise suggestion) of this discussions. Note how (1) was fixed a dozen posts ago, with Kurt's prompt reply. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..\| . \|. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie sempre uno zaino ...........\| ..: \|.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Steve McIntyre :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 02:39:46PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: >liw@... wrote: > >>While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th >>iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about >>platforms and some Q&A with the candidates? >Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position >wrt this PC bullshit. >So candidates, what do you think about this? Not that I think this is a particularly important issue, but... My main problem with using "he" etc. as gender-neutral prononuns is that it sounds really old-fashioned, in en_GB at least. I'm also unconvinced by the new made-up "sie", "hir, etc. as they're just too uncommon: they sound awkward and the vast majority of English speakers will have no understanding of them, making them pointless. So, both intentionally and by default, I use "they" and "them" to cover both singular and plural cases. Some people may complain that they believe singular "they" to be invalid, but I don't care. English as a language is defined by usage, not by pedants making up and following arbitrary rules. There are lots of discussions of this topic on the net (e.g. [1],[2],[3]), so I'm not going to spend any more effort on it myself. [1] http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-the2.htm [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they [3] http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@... "I've only once written 'SQL is my bitch' in a comment. But that code is in use on a military site..." -- Simon Booth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Brian May-11 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message MJ Ray wrote: > That treads on the singular "they" landmine. Also, it sounds like > it's the Debian Developer's validity in question. > > How about "Debian Developers may nominate themselves by sending a > signed email to debian-vote@..."? > How about: "To be valid, a Debian Developer can send a signed email nominating oneself to the debian-vote@... lists"? <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oneself> Also see: <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:English_inflection#Forms_of_pronouns> According to this page, themself is singular and themselves is plural. The <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/themself> pages says "According to many this is incorrect and its use should be avoided, however it is also noted to have been in common use for hundreds of years. The issue stems from they <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they> which is used as a gender-neutral third-person pronoun, though this use is also considered non standard. More information can be found at the usage notes <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they#Usage_notes> on that page." Personally I don't really care - it is up to the author to decide. I just haven't seen anybody discredit "oneself" for the job yet ;-). -- Brian May <brian@...> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...

	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Per Andersson-3 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary <secretary@...> wrote: > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > list. Can't women nominate themselves? Best regards, Per -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Steve Langasek :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary > <secretary@...> wrote: > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > > list. > Can't women nominate themselves? Clearly the Project Secretary's mail was a clever troll intended to trick our female developers into standing for DPL. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@... vorlon@... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Kurt Roeckx :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary > <secretary@...> wrote: > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > > list. > > Can't women nominate themselves? Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace it by "the candidate". Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Wouter Verhelst :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11:16PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary > > <secretary@...> wrote: > > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > > > list. > > > > Can't women nominate themselves? > > Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace > it by "the candidate". You mean I can nominate someone else? ;-P (suggested phrasing: "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" this nicely avoids gender issues while not having to use single plural idiosynchracies) -- <Lo-lan-do> Home is where you have to wash the dishes. -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Steve McIntyre-2 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:46:31PM +0100, Debian Project Secretary wrote: >Hi, > >The nomination period for the DPL election is almost over. If you >want to nominate yourself as canidate you need to send a signed >mail to the debian-vote@... list. I hereby nominate myself as a candidate in the DPL election 2009. Platform to follow shortly. Apologies for leaving this so late: I've been unsure whether or not I wanted to stand again this year, but after a lot of pestering by friends I've decided I should. If elected, I will be appointing an assistant to help with the workload. Luk Claes has volunteered to be that person, and I thank him for that. :-) -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@... Into the distance, a ribbon of black Stretched to the point of no turning back signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Kurt Roeckx :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11:16PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary > > > <secretary@...> wrote: > > > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in > > > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... > > > > list. > > > > > > Can't women nominate themselves? > > > > Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace > > it by "the candidate". > > (suggested phrasing: > > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" I only noticed the "he", but "himself" is of course also a problem. Thank you for the suggestion. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Kurt Roeckx :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 01:36:04PM +0000, Steve McIntyre wrote: > On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:46:31PM +0100, Debian Project Secretary wrote: > >Hi, > > > >The nomination period for the DPL election is almost over. If you > >want to nominate yourself as canidate you need to send a signed > >mail to the debian-vote@... list. > > I hereby nominate myself as a candidate in the DPL election > 2009. Platform to follow shortly. Your nomination has been received and is valid. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Per Andersson-3 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Kurt Roeckx <kurt@...> wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: >> On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11:16PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: >> > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +0000, Per Andersson wrote: >> > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary >> > > <secretary@...> wrote: >> > > > To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in >> > > > which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@... >> > > > list. >> > > >> > > Can't women nominate themselves? >> > >> > Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace >> > it by "the candidate". >> >> (suggested phrasing: >> >> "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they >> nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > > I only noticed the "he", but "himself" is of course also a > problem. Thank you for the suggestion. Thanks for listening and taking this issue seriously. Best regards, Per > Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Steve Langasek :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > You mean I can nominate someone else? ;-P > (suggested phrasing: > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > this nicely avoids gender issues while not having to use single plural > idiosynchracies) "a Debian Developers"? :) -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@... vorlon@... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Luca Filipozzi :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:53:17AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > > > this nicely avoids gender issues while not having to use single plural > > idiosynchracies) > > "a Debian Developers"? :) "can"? "lists"? How about... In order for their self-nominations to be considered valid, Debian Developers must send a GPG-signed email in which they nominate themselves to the debian-vote@... mailing list. -- Luca Filipozzi, Director of Operations, UBC Electrical and Computer Engineering -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Carsten Hey :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:53:17AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > > "a Debian Developers"? :) How about "To be valid, a Debian Developer can send a signed email nominating themselves to the debian-vote@... lists"? (I'm not a native speaker.) Regards Carsten -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by MJ Ray-2 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Carsten Hey <c.hey@...> wrote: > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:53:17AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > > "To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they > > > nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@... lists" > > > > "a Debian Developers"? :) > > How about "To be valid, a Debian Developer can send a signed email > nominating themselves to the debian-vote@... lists"? That treads on the singular "they" landmine. Also, it sounds like it's the Debian Developer's validity in question. How about "Debian Developers may nominate themselves by sending a signed email to debian-vote@..."? How about "Shepherds Bush (Central line)"? > (I'm not a native speaker.) Noted. Thanks for playing anyway! -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Matthew Johnson-12 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Sun Mar 08 23:40, MJ Ray wrote: > > How about "Shepherds Bush (Central line)"? > How about accepting that "he" is the gender-neutral pronoun in English? -- Matthew Johnson signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Ben Finney-5 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Matthew Johnson <mjj29@...> writes: > How about accepting that "he" is the gender-neutral pronoun in > English? Because that's not true; “he” is a male-gender pronoun. The pronoun “he” is sometimes awkwardly and explicitly defined for gender-neutral use in specific cases, but it's never the case that “he” is by default understood to be gender-neutral. The English gender-neutral singular pronoun for people, if such a pronoun exists in English, is “they”. If someone disagrees, they are welcome to fight the tide and historical usage, but I think they are fooling themselves. -- \ “Reichel's Law: A body on vacation tends to remain on vacation \| `\ unless acted upon by an outside force.” —Carol Reichel \| _o__) \| Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Lars Wirzenius-5 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message ma, 2009-03-09 kello 19:37 +1100, Ben Finney kirjoitti: > Matthew Johnson <mjj29@...> writes: > > > How about accepting that "he" is the gender-neutral pronoun in > > English? > > Because that's not true; “he” is a male-gender pronoun. While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about platforms and some Q&A with the candidates? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Marco d'Itri :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message liw@... wrote: >While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th >iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about >platforms and some Q&A with the candidates? Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position wrt this PC bullshit. So candidates, what do you think about this? -- ciao, Marco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Stefano Zacchiroli :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 02:39:46PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: > Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position > wrt this PC bullshit. > So candidates, what do you think about this? [ Just assuming this was a serious question, otherwise shame on me for keeping this thread alive. ] 1) It costs nothing to fix the text for the next time: it is de facto boilerplate. 2) It costs nothing in the future to take the request in private with the poster, to avoid bothering readers with the 12767th iteration (2 more after Lars wise suggestion) of this discussions. Note how (1) was fixed a dozen posts ago, with Kurt's prompt reply. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..\| . \|. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie sempre uno zaino ...........\| ..: \|.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Steve McIntyre :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 02:39:46PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: >liw@... wrote: > >>While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th >>iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about >>platforms and some Q&A with the candidates? >Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position >wrt this PC bullshit. >So candidates, what do you think about this? Not that I think this is a particularly important issue, but... My main problem with using "he" etc. as gender-neutral prononuns is that it sounds really old-fashioned, in en_GB at least. I'm also unconvinced by the new made-up "sie", "hir, etc. as they're just too uncommon: they sound awkward and the vast majority of English speakers will have no understanding of them, making them pointless. So, both intentionally and by default, I use "they" and "them" to cover both singular and plural cases. Some people may complain that they believe singular "they" to be invalid, but I don't care. English as a language is defined by usage, not by pedants making up and following arbitrary rules. There are lots of discussions of this topic on the net (e.g. [1],[2],[3]), so I'm not going to spend any more effort on it myself. [1] http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-the2.htm [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they [3] http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@... "I've only once written 'SQL is my bitch' in a comment. But that code is in use on a military site..." -- Simon Booth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...
	Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations. by Brian May-11 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message MJ Ray wrote: > That treads on the singular "they" landmine. Also, it sounds like > it's the Debian Developer's validity in question. > > How about "Debian Developers may nominate themselves by sending a > signed email to debian-vote@..."? > How about: "To be valid, a Debian Developer can send a signed email nominating oneself to the debian-vote@... lists"? <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oneself> Also see: <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:English_inflection#Forms_of_pronouns> According to this page, themself is singular and themselves is plural. The <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/themself> pages says "According to many this is incorrect and its use should be avoided, however it is also noted to have been in common use for hundreds of years. The issue stems from they <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they> which is used as a gender-neutral third-person pronoun, though this use is also considered non standard. More information can be found at the usage notes <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they#Usage_notes> on that page." Personally I don't really care - it is up to the author to decide. I just haven't seen anybody discredit "oneself" for the job yet ;-). -- Brian May <brian@...> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@...