« Return to Thread: Re: GENI IP space?
Re: GENI IP space?
by Matt Mathis
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I made a comment along these lines at the microphone at GEC3.
The general problem is that if GENI uses a slice of address space "borrowed"
from an ongoing production network, then GENI potentially exposes the owner of
the address space to churn caused by defective or erratic routing
announcements.
As I noted at the mic everyone attached to GENI will be happy as long as GENI
has some other IP address space, but nobody will want to share addresses with
GENI.
I suggest another option, that is solicit the wider community for unused
address space that is disjoint from current production announcements, or can
otherwise tolerate potential churn caused by GENI. NLR may have space too.
How much space does GENI need? We certainly have unused class C's from the
swamp that are available. They should be fine in the global R&E Internet, but
may be blocked by some commercial and International ISPs. We may also be able
to find some other larger blocks... How much space does GENI need and for how
long?
Thanks,
--MM--
-------------------------------------------
Matt Mathis http://staff.psc.edu/mathis
Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529
-------------------------------------------
Evil is defined by mortals who think they know
"The Truth" and use force to apply it to others.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Aaron Falk wrote:
> Hi Joe-
>
> I agree this is a broad topic and am cc'ing the wg list.
>
> Can you expand more on why "Options (1) and (2) will not support
> independent routing policies"? I can see that the campus would need
> to cooperate on developing GENI-needed policies. Is that what you
> meant?
>
> We do plan to get some addresses from ARIN, although not for every
> GENI component. There is no timeline yet. Our assumption has been
> that, in general, if you were deploying something you would provide
> addresses for it (your 'option 1' below) and we would assist you to
> work with your IT dept on getting appropriate policies in place.
> Perhaps this is simple-minded, but if it won't work it I'd like to
> understand why.
>
> I think the goal of collecting parameters we need to register is a
> good one. Is there anything other than IP addresses and AS numbers?
>
> --aaron
>
> On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Joseph B. Evans wrote:
>
>> Aaron:
>> GpENI is going to need IP space for its control and management
>> plane, and perhaps for parts of the data path as well. I assume
>> projects in other clusters are going to come up against this as well.
>>
>> GpENI is looking into a few options, (1) using KU or KANREN space,
>> (2) using Internet2 space, (3) getting GpENI space from ARIN, or (4)
>> getting space through a coordinated request to ARIN from the GPO.
>> Note that eventually, we will also likely want to have at least one
>> AS number for GENI. Options (1) and (2) will not support
>> independent routing policies, and (3) is unlikely to be successful.
>>
>> So the question is, is the GPO pursuing IP space for the whole of
>> GENI, and if so, what is the timeline? If not, well, I'd recommend
>> that it should.
>>
>> There is some urgency to this, since renumbering will be
>> increasingly irritating as the systems grow.
>>
>> I've copied the Substrate WG co-chairs because I think this is a
>> general substrate issue.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Joe
>>
>> ---
>> Joseph B. Evans, Ph.D. <evans@...>
>> Distinguished Professor, Electrical Engineering & Computer Science
>> Director, Information & Telecommunications Technology Center
>> University of Kansas
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> substrate-wg mailing list
> substrate-wg@...
> http://lists.geni.net/mailman/listinfo/substrate-wg
>
_______________________________________________
substrate-wg mailing list
substrate-wg@...
http://lists.geni.net/mailman/listinfo/substrate-wg
The general problem is that if GENI uses a slice of address space "borrowed"
from an ongoing production network, then GENI potentially exposes the owner of
the address space to churn caused by defective or erratic routing
announcements.
As I noted at the mic everyone attached to GENI will be happy as long as GENI
has some other IP address space, but nobody will want to share addresses with
GENI.
I suggest another option, that is solicit the wider community for unused
address space that is disjoint from current production announcements, or can
otherwise tolerate potential churn caused by GENI. NLR may have space too.
How much space does GENI need? We certainly have unused class C's from the
swamp that are available. They should be fine in the global R&E Internet, but
may be blocked by some commercial and International ISPs. We may also be able
to find some other larger blocks... How much space does GENI need and for how
long?
Thanks,
--MM--
-------------------------------------------
Matt Mathis http://staff.psc.edu/mathis
Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529
-------------------------------------------
Evil is defined by mortals who think they know
"The Truth" and use force to apply it to others.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Aaron Falk wrote:
> Hi Joe-
>
> I agree this is a broad topic and am cc'ing the wg list.
>
> Can you expand more on why "Options (1) and (2) will not support
> independent routing policies"? I can see that the campus would need
> to cooperate on developing GENI-needed policies. Is that what you
> meant?
>
> We do plan to get some addresses from ARIN, although not for every
> GENI component. There is no timeline yet. Our assumption has been
> that, in general, if you were deploying something you would provide
> addresses for it (your 'option 1' below) and we would assist you to
> work with your IT dept on getting appropriate policies in place.
> Perhaps this is simple-minded, but if it won't work it I'd like to
> understand why.
>
> I think the goal of collecting parameters we need to register is a
> good one. Is there anything other than IP addresses and AS numbers?
>
> --aaron
>
> On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Joseph B. Evans wrote:
>
>> Aaron:
>> GpENI is going to need IP space for its control and management
>> plane, and perhaps for parts of the data path as well. I assume
>> projects in other clusters are going to come up against this as well.
>>
>> GpENI is looking into a few options, (1) using KU or KANREN space,
>> (2) using Internet2 space, (3) getting GpENI space from ARIN, or (4)
>> getting space through a coordinated request to ARIN from the GPO.
>> Note that eventually, we will also likely want to have at least one
>> AS number for GENI. Options (1) and (2) will not support
>> independent routing policies, and (3) is unlikely to be successful.
>>
>> So the question is, is the GPO pursuing IP space for the whole of
>> GENI, and if so, what is the timeline? If not, well, I'd recommend
>> that it should.
>>
>> There is some urgency to this, since renumbering will be
>> increasingly irritating as the systems grow.
>>
>> I've copied the Substrate WG co-chairs because I think this is a
>> general substrate issue.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Joe
>>
>> ---
>> Joseph B. Evans, Ph.D. <evans@...>
>> Distinguished Professor, Electrical Engineering & Computer Science
>> Director, Information & Telecommunications Technology Center
>> University of Kansas
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> substrate-wg mailing list
> substrate-wg@...
> http://lists.geni.net/mailman/listinfo/substrate-wg
>
_______________________________________________
substrate-wg mailing list
substrate-wg@...
http://lists.geni.net/mailman/listinfo/substrate-wg
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