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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Hi guys,
I have tested the MXit plugin with the latest Pidgin 2.6.1 and the
latest MXit plugin code is compatible with 2.6. Looking at the responses
we received thus far there were no objections against the inclusion of
the MXit plugin. If there are no other concerns with this I would really
like to start integrating the plugin into the main Pidgin branch.
Since 2.6 has now been released, is it possible to get write access to
the/an MTN tree to include the plugin?
As I mentioned before, the source code and the plugin can be downloaded
from http://devzone.mxit.com/libPurple/downloads/ if you wish to look at
it. I have also made an updated build for 2.6.1, but have not released
it yet.
Thank you,
Pieter Loubser | C/C++ Developer
T: +27 21 880 6852 | F: +27 21 880 6811 | C: +27 82 338 9434
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Pieter Loubser spake unto us the following wisdom:
> I have tested the MXit plugin with the latest Pidgin 2.6.1 and the
> latest MXit plugin code is compatible with 2.6. Looking at the responses
> we received thus far there were no objections against the inclusion of
> the MXit plugin. If there are no other concerns with this I would really
> like to start integrating the plugin into the main Pidgin branch.
I have concerns which echo some other concerns which were indeed raised.
The mxit plugin causes a LOT of support traffic and noise. It seems
to fail a lot, and we get tons of support requests because of this.
If someone from mxit is not willing to take on the burden of these
support requests, and improve the plugin to reduce their frequency, I
am absolutely opposed to including it. We have enough marginal
protocol plugins as it is. :-P
Ethan
--
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
It's worth mentioning that there is another mxit plugin on Launchpad
that was developed independently. Are you sure the support requests
are for Pieter's version on not the other one perhaps?
Francois
On 2009-08-24, Ethan Blanton < elb@...> wrote:
> Pieter Loubser spake unto us the following wisdom:
>> I have tested the MXit plugin with the latest Pidgin 2.6.1 and the
>> latest MXit plugin code is compatible with 2.6. Looking at the responses
>> we received thus far there were no objections against the inclusion of
>> the MXit plugin. If there are no other concerns with this I would really
>> like to start integrating the plugin into the main Pidgin branch.
>
> I have concerns which echo some other concerns which were indeed raised.
>
> The mxit plugin causes a LOT of support traffic and noise. It seems
> to fail a lot, and we get tons of support requests because of this.
> If someone from mxit is not willing to take on the burden of these
> support requests, and improve the plugin to reduce their frequency, I
> am absolutely opposed to including it. We have enough marginal
> protocol plugins as it is. :-P
>
> Ethan
> --
> The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
> for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
> determined to commit crimes.
> -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764
>
--
Sent from my mobile device
Francois Botha
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Hi,
The current version of the 'official' MXit plugin displays advertisements when you login. Is aligned with Pidgin's policies?
Not sure if this list supports attachments, but I'll try to attach a screenshot.
regards, Francois
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Hi,
> I'm concerned about this as well. I'm worried that if the mxit plugin
> is included the number of these questions to the support mailing list
> will increase, and it doesn't seem like anyone currently subscribed to
> the support list knows how to answer them.
Yes we fully understand your concerns regarding supporting the MXit
plugin. However we are committed to providing support as far as
possible. Our support team have subscribed to the Pidgin support mailing
list today to handle all MXit related issues.
We have also created an installation-and-MXit-account-setup tutorial
which is available from the download web pages
( http://devzone.mxit.com/libPurple/download/6/). We also provide a
section in the MXit support forum to handle MXit Pidgin issues
( http://forum.mxit.com/viewforum.php?f=150).
> I suspect that a few changes can be made to the plugin to make it more
> clear how to use it. Does the plugin set a callback for the
> get_account_text_table prpl function? If not, it might be helpful to
> do so. This function causes Pidgin to display a hint on what type of
> value is expected (a phone number, I guess?)
Thank you for your input. I like your idea of adding a label to the
username field to help the users and I have applied it in the plugin.
Regards,
Pieter
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Francois Botha <igitur@...> wrote:
Hi,
The current version of the 'official' MXit plugin displays advertisements when you login. Is aligned with Pidgin's policies?
Not sure if this list supports attachments, but I'll try to attach a screenshot.
regards, Francois
Hi guys, Sorry to bug you about this, but I'm really curious about the Pidgin policies regarding advertisement. To be honest, this is the single most annoying feature of the MXit plugin and I hope you would back me in saying that advertisements should be removed before the plugin gets included in the standard Pidgin package.
regards, Francois
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Francois Botha< igitur@...> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Francois Botha < igitur@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> The current version of the 'official' MXit plugin displays advertisements
>> when you login. Is aligned with Pidgin's policies?
>> Not sure if this list supports attachments, but I'll try to attach a
>> screenshot.
>> regards,
>> Francois
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Sorry to bug you about this, but I'm really curious about the Pidgin
> policies regarding advertisement.
>
> To be honest, this is the single most annoying feature of the MXit plugin
> and I hope you would back me in saying that advertisements should be removed
> before the plugin gets included in the standard Pidgin package.
Yes this is indeed an interesting question. Thank you for Francois
for bringing it up. There is no official or unofficial Pidgin policy
regarding advertisements. Regardless of whatever we decide here,
obviously anyone would be free to alter the source code to remove this
advertisement.
I don't believe anyone has ever tried adding advertising into Pidgin,
so we've never discussed it. Most of our protocols are developed by
many individual developers over a long period of time and are
unsupported by any commercial entity.
This protocol plugin is different in that it was developed by MXit and
would be in large by maintained by them. Because of that I'm ok
leaving the advertising in in our officially sanctioned
Pidgin/libpurple.
I think I tend to have a more corporate-friendly mindset than other
devs. I'm interested in hearing the opinions of other developers and
Pieter.
-Mark
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 02:25, Mark Doliner< mark@...> wrote:
> This protocol plugin is different in that it was developed by MXit and
> would be in large by maintained by them. Because of that I'm ok
> leaving the advertising in in our officially sanctioned
> Pidgin/libpurple.
I think you'd find any trivially removable advertising would be
removed quite quickly.
> I think I tend to have a more corporate-friendly mindset than other
> devs. I'm interested in hearing the opinions of other developers and
> Pieter.
I understand why you have such a mindset :-)
Regards,
Stu.
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Mark Doliner wrote:
> This protocol plugin is different in that it was developed by MXit and
> would be in large by maintained by them. Because of that I'm ok
> leaving the advertising in in our officially sanctioned
> Pidgin/libpurple.
I'm completely opposed to allowing mandatory (or even opt-out)
advertising into officially sanctioned Pidgin/libpurple releases--even
if they benefit us or IMF. I'm less opposed to opt-in advertising, but
it's not something I'd really want to see. In either case, I don't
believe it belongs in a prpl. Instead, such advertising should be a UI
plugin (or the UI itself if someone wrote an ad-supported UI).
For reference, take a look at our Groupwise plugin. It was initially
developed and maintained by a Novell employee, and it contains no
advertisements.
John
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Mark Doliner spake unto us the following wisdom:
> I think I tend to have a more corporate-friendly mindset than other
> devs. I'm interested in hearing the opinions of other developers and
> Pieter.
I would prefer not to see advertising, simply because I prefer not to
see advertising.
That said, if mxit wishes to maintain and support an open source
libpurple plugin for their proprietary protocol, and the open source
they provide happens to contain advertisements, I am OK with that,
provided that those advertisements affect ONLY users of the mxit
protocol plugin.
As soon as I have to commit a lick of code to fix a bug, or spend time
helping users, though, I would be likely to remove the advertising
code while I was in there. :-P
Ethan
--
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:56 AM, Ethan Blanton <elb@...> wrote:
As soon as I have to commit a lick of code to fix a bug, or spend time
helping users, though, I would be likely to remove the advertising
code while I was in there. :-P
To me, advertising is against the spirit of Pidgin, but that's a touch feely thing I can't substantiate. MXit make millions off their mobile advertising anyway.
To clear up some legal issues, am I allowed to take MXit's source, remove the advertising, repackage the plugin (for Windows and other operating systems) and host it on my own site? Of course I'll provide the modified source as well. Or do I have to look at MXit's license for the answer?
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Francois Botha wrote:
> To clear up some legal issues, am I allowed to take MXit's source,
> remove the advertising, repackage the plugin (for Windows and other
> operating systems) and host it on my own site? Of course I'll provide
> the modified source as well. Or do I have to look at MXit's license for
> the answer?
MXit's prpl must be licensed compatibly with the GPL for this thread to
have any point, so the answer _should be_ yes.
Kevin
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Francois Botha spake unto us the following wisdom:
> To me, advertising is against the spirit of Pidgin, but that's a touch feely
> thing I can't substantiate. MXit make millions off their mobile advertising
> anyway.
>
> To clear up some legal issues, am I allowed to take MXit's source, remove
> the advertising, repackage the plugin (for Windows and other operating
> systems) and host it on my own site? Of course I'll provide the modified
> source as well. Or do I have to look at MXit's license for the answer?
If you are not, then the MXit plugin is license-incompatible with
Pidgin, and they must either relicense it immediately or cease
distribution entirely.
Ethan
--
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Ethan Blanton< elb@...> wrote:
> Francois Botha spake unto us the following wisdom:
>> To me, advertising is against the spirit of Pidgin, but that's a touch feely
>> thing I can't substantiate. MXit make millions off their mobile advertising
>> anyway.
>>
>> To clear up some legal issues, am I allowed to take MXit's source, remove
>> the advertising, repackage the plugin (for Windows and other operating
>> systems) and host it on my own site? Of course I'll provide the modified
>> source as well. Or do I have to look at MXit's license for the answer?
>
> If you are not, then the MXit plugin is license-incompatible with
> Pidgin, and they must either relicense it immediately or cease
> distribution entirely.
An additional point to consider... it may be possible for the MXit
servers to have a terms of service that requires the user to connect
using a client that displays ads. My opinion is that this would be
allowed by the GPL, but I think most of us agree that this is against
the spirit of the license. This is very similar to the situation with
the Skype PRPL.
-Mark
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Mark Doliner spake unto us the following wisdom:
> > If you are not, then the MXit plugin is license-incompatible with
> > Pidgin, and they must either relicense it immediately or cease
> > distribution entirely.
>
> An additional point to consider... it may be possible for the MXit
> servers to have a terms of service that requires the user to connect
> using a client that displays ads. My opinion is that this would be
> allowed by the GPL, but I think most of us agree that this is against
> the spirit of the license. This is very similar to the situation with
> the Skype PRPL.
So long as the user can modify the source code to remove those ads
regardless of the TOS, it wouldn't seem to violate the GPL.
Exercising the GPL might simply violate the TOS.
That said, if this *is* in the MXit TOS, I wholly oppose inclusion of
a sanctioned, ad-bearing MXit plugin in Pidgin. I get the impression
your example was hypothetical, though, so hopefully we don't have to
worry about that.
Ethan
--
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Hi,
> This protocol plugin is different in that it was developed by MXit and
> would be in large by maintained by them. Because of that I'm ok
> leaving the advertising in in our officially sanctioned
> Pidgin/libpurple.
>
> I think I tend to have a more corporate-friendly mindset than other
> devs. I'm interested in hearing the opinions of other developers and
> Pieter.
Just to clarify the MXit "adverts" that are causing some concern.
These were originally introduced on our Mobile client to inform the
userbase of new content or services which were available on the MXit
platform. On the mobile client they are shown as a splash-screen while
the data (GPRS, etc) connection is being established (which can take a
few seconds). Sometimes they are also used to advertise information for
external parties.
On the PC client, we have the same need to inform to users. So we
implemented the same splash-screen mechanism, and tried to make it as
non-intrusive as possible.
So:
1. The splash-screen is only shown when a MXit account is enabled.
2. The splash-screen is only shown at the point where the user logs into
the MXit server.
3. User can press ESC to immediately close the window.
4. The splash-screen should only change (and be downloaded to the PC)
once per day.
Francois Botha posted an example of how they look to the mailing-list:
< http://pidgin.im/pipermail/devel/attachments/20090825/c4a413a1/attachment-0001.png>
So we don't see the splash-screen as very intrusive, and neither are
they like the flashy banner adverts typical of many commercial IM
clients.
Thanks,
Pieter
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
So we don't see the splash-screen as very intrusive, and neither are
they like the flashy banner adverts typical of many commercial IM
clients.
I've setup my Pidgin to disconnect all accounts when the auto-away triggers. I do this because I use my instant message at multiple locations (home and work) and some protocols don't handle logins from various locations gracefully. The side-effect is that every time I return from "away mode" I see a MXit splash screen, usually with a girl in a bikini.
I admit that my setup isn't the general setup, but for me, at least, the ads *are* intrusive. I just have to get round to removing the ads myself.
regards, Francois
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
On Thu, 2009-09-03 at 12:05 +0200, Pieter Loubser wrote:
> So:
> 1. The splash-screen is only shown when a MXit account is enabled.
> 2. The splash-screen is only shown at the point where the user logs into
> the MXit server.
> 3. User can press ESC to immediately close the window.
> 4. The splash-screen should only change (and be downloaded to the PC)
> once per day.
>
> Francois Botha posted an example of how they look to the mailing-list:
> < http://pidgin.im/pipermail/devel/attachments/20090825/c4a413a1/attachment-0001.png>
>
> So we don't see the splash-screen as very intrusive, and neither are
> they like the flashy banner adverts typical of many commercial IM
> clients.
_If_ MXit is included in the Pidgin repository, and _if_ we receive a
patch that takes out the splash-screen (maybe not very intrusive but
certainly not very useful), what do you suppose us to do? Reject the
patch?
-khc
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Re: Inclusion of MXit plugin into Pidgin
Hi,
On Thu, 2009-09-03 at 18:58 +0200, Ka-Hing Cheung wrote:
>
> _If_ MXit is included in the Pidgin repository, and _if_ we receive a
> patch that takes out the splash-screen (maybe not very intrusive but
> certainly not very useful), what do you suppose us to do? Reject the
> patch?
As MXit will be supporting and maintaining this plugin, we would look at
each patch individually and decide based on its merits and our knowledge
of the MXit platform if it should be applied or not.
In regards to the patch mentioned above, we would vote against it.
Regards,
Pieter
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