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Re: Integrating Sakai with Google apps
by Michael Feldstein-2
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It seems to me that we have some foundational tools, some technical
building blocks, and some interest in doing more. I suggest capitalizing
on all of this by making Teaching with the New Web an official theme of
the Newport Beach conference. This could involve several steps.
First, get an appropriate keynote speaker. Personally, I'm a big fan of
Joe Kraus (http://www.jot.com/about-jotspot.php), co-founder of JotSpot
and current Google employee (now that they have acquired his company). I
interviewed him way back in the early history of my blog
(http://mfeldstein.com/interview_with_jotspot_co_founders/), and I have
to say he had a profound impact on my thinking. Matt Mullenweg of
WordPress fame (http://photomatt.net/) is also a good candidate.
Second, make a special effort to get talks on Teaching with Web
2.0/Loosely Coupled Sakai/etc. topics. I was happy to see a handful of
such topics pop up organically in Amsterdam and I think we could get
even more if a concerted effort were made. Ideally, it would cut across
the various tracks. The goal would be to prime the pump for some serious
cross-fertilization (to mix metaphors).
Third, I'd love to see a pre-conference U-Camp populated with teachers
who are already doing interesting things. Google Maps, del.icio.us,
PBwiki, or whatever other wild tools are out on the web. These folks
should be actively recruited. (Scholarship money to cover travel?)
Ideally, the outcome would be some concrete directions for one or
several integration projects.
And finally, some post conference follow-up, publicizing a few
particularly interesting projects and making an effort to generate
community excitement and commitment around them. Ideally, these projects
would be both immediately useful to the community and also allow us to
lay more groundwork for a general strategy of developing integrations
with hosted tools that faculty members can add themselves without any
required support from system administrators.
- m
Ian Boston wrote:
> I haven't experimented with google apps, but I have been writing a
> facebook app, and a myspace app over the past few months.
>
> Myspace has no API to speak off and you just have to drop flash
> applications onto it, by cutting and pasting html, which is extremely
> ugly. However it does allow Flash and so most apps are bits of flash
> that a 3rd party server pushes into you myspace profile.
>
> It bans iframes, javascript and css so you cant do hardly anything.
>
> Facebook as a full API in which you get a flay single tool portal that
> consumes facebook markup from your servers and renders it inside their
> portal. Javascript is banned and css is heavily re-writte, but the
> FaceBook Markup Language allows reasonably powerful integration.
> iframes are allowed as is Flash which can be used to do limited
> dynamic work. It also has an AJAX model operating in a controlled space.
>
> IMHO it would re relatively easy to create a FBML portal that you
> could use inside Facebook... but it would require greatly reduced
> functionality from the tools. (eg basic RSS summary information)
>
> The FaceBook api is remarkably like linktool, but it uses a proxy
> rather than an Iframe.
>
>
> oh and there is a java toolkit for the API.
>
> ----
>
> My understanding of the google tools SAML apis is that it would a
> plumbing job to connect Sakai to Google Tools with Guanxi, but I
> should leave UHI to comment more on that.
>
> I haven't looked in detail at the Google portal, but from memory it is
> a AJAX like DIV portal, into which it would be relatively easy to push
> sakai components, again, not all tools would work or make sense here.
>
>
>
> Ian
>
> BTW, the facebook app can (at the moment be found at
> http://apps.facebook.com/inetradio or
> http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=2365937844 ... but its
> still in development )
>
>
> Knoop, Peter wrote:
>> Depending on the level of integration with Sakai you're after initially,
>> the Web Content tool already provides a level of experimentation and
>> eliminates the need for intervention of an IT person to install some
>> tool or service. As long as you're not concerned with passing
>> information back and forth, Web Content is a powerful tool for trying
>> out something for teaching or research that exists outside of Sakai.
>> For example, prior to having a wiki available in Sakai, one of the most
>> common uses for Web Content at the University of Michigan (U-M) was to
>> "integrate" a wiki from some external site into a Sakai course site.
>> Similarly for blogs.
>> I personally used it to integrate the php-based predecessor of the
>> current ImageQuiz tool in Contrib. Doing so provided folks an
>> opportunity to test out the pedagogical benefits of the tool without
>> worrying about the IT behind it, nor requiring a large investment
>> upfront by building it as a Sakai tool from the start. Confident that
>> it proved to be a good teaching tool, we can now worry about the
>> additional nice things one gets by tighter integration with Sakai, such
>> as grading and access to content services.
>> I've also used Web Content to integrate Google Maps in Sakai sites;
>> depending on what you want to do with Google maps, you can now do some
>> nice things with much tighter integration with Sakai -- content,
>> permissions, etc. -- using Edia's Sakai Maps tool in Contrib. I used
>> Web Content to provide access to a near real-time map of the current
>> location of a caravan of vehicles, and to offer push-pins of photos
>> along the way for students and their friends and families (and alumni,
>> who help fund such trips) to view during a two-week geology field trip
>> in the western US.
>>
>> There are things you run across from time-to-time that don't work well
>> with Web Content, such as things that try to take over the whole browser
>> screen, but that doesn't prevent you from trying them. On the whole Web
>> Content is an easy, powerful way for any instructor, IT-savvy or not, to
>> plug in a URL to some site outside of Sakai they would like to try out
>> in their course.
>>
>> -peter
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Feldstein [mailto:michael.feldstein@...]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:44 PM
>>> To: Christopher D. Coppola
>>> Cc: Mara Hancock; sakai-dev Dev; pedagogy@...
>>> Subject: Re: Integrating Sakai with Google apps
>>>
>>> Right on.
>>>
>>> I think it's probably easiest to start with Web 2.0ish
>>> gadgetized/widgetized stuff because (a) it's already been designed for
>>> this type of thing, and (b) there are a lot more opportunities for
>>> teachers to play with these things "in the wild" and bring use cases
>>> back to the community. But ultimately, I'd like to see Sakai-internal
>>> tools move in this direction as well, to the degree that it's
>> practical
>>> to do so.
>>>
>>> - m
>>>
>>>
>>> Christopher D. Coppola wrote:
>>>> I'll just pick up on one of those three to say that the idea in #2
>> is
>>>> one I'm really interested in. If you're not already saying it, I
>> hope
>>>> the idea gets extended to think about the ability to deploy
>>>> tools/gadgets/etc. as simply as you can on the Google portal.
>>>>
>>>> There was another thread on Pedagogy recently under the subject "Re:
>>>> eLearning 2.0 - overview of tools" talking about the tension
>> between
>>>> the structured, controlled, learning environment approach and the
>>>> "small pieces loosely joined" ad-hoc approach to using various tools
>>>> and services...
>>>>
>>>> This idea seems relevant...
>>>>
>>>>> 2. *What would need to be done to make this tool work as a
>>>>> teacher-installable remotely hosted service? *Since individual
>>>>> teachers in many institutions are not empowered to get their IT
>>>>> support staff to install new tools, I would like to see something
>>>>> like this available as something like a Google Gadget that
>>>>> wouldn't require the intervention of an IT person to install. I
>>>>> don't have any idea what would be involved technically, but given
>>>>> the relatively low overhead of this sort of application, it might
>>>>> be an interesting test case for the Sakai community.
>>>> /Chris.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------
>>>> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
>>>> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development
>>>> (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
>>>> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
>>>> Preferences.
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Oracle Email Signature Logo
>>> Michael Feldstein | Principal Product Manager | 818.817.2925
>>> Oracle Academic Enterprise Solutions
>>> PO Box 307, Glendale, MA 01229
>>> [see attachment: "unknown.html", size: 3319 bytes]
>>>
>>> [see attachment: "oracle_sig_logo.gif", size: 658 bytes]
>>>
>>> [see attachment: "michael.feldstein.vcf", size: 304 bytes]
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachments:
>>>
>>> unknown.html
>>> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/4ff13d62-
>>> e6e8-492a-00fa-ebc4b9734815/unknown.html
>>>
>>> oracle_sig_logo.gif
>>> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/f85621da-
>>> 9a02-46cb-00a5-606a6d497aaa/oracle_sig_logo.gif
>>>
>>> michael.feldstein.vcf
>>> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/d557e42b-
>>> 329a-4832-80c0-c52bcbf8935e/michael.feldstein.vcf
>>>
>>> ----------------------
>>> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
>>> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Pedagogy site.
>>> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
>>> Preferences.
>>
>> ----------------------
>> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
>> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development
>> (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
>> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
>> Preferences.
>>
>
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development
> (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
> Preferences.
>
--
Oracle Email Signature Logo
Michael Feldstein | Principal Product Manager | 818.817.2925
Oracle Academic Enterprise Solutions
PO Box 307, Glendale, MA 01229
[see attachment: "unknown.html", size: 14505 bytes]
[see attachment: "oracle_sig_logo.gif", size: 658 bytes]
[see attachment: "michael.feldstein.vcf", size: 304 bytes]
Attachments:
unknown.html
https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/bfee5955-b1a4-47fe-000e-43ee41e63ffd/unknown.html
oracle_sig_logo.gif
https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/05651557-1ae7-49f7-801d-a09db12366c2/oracle_sig_logo.gif
michael.feldstein.vcf
https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/c1754173-441b-4d80-00d6-03c86d70c550/michael.feldstein.vcf
----------------------
This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Pedagogy site.
You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace > Preferences.
building blocks, and some interest in doing more. I suggest capitalizing
on all of this by making Teaching with the New Web an official theme of
the Newport Beach conference. This could involve several steps.
First, get an appropriate keynote speaker. Personally, I'm a big fan of
Joe Kraus (http://www.jot.com/about-jotspot.php), co-founder of JotSpot
and current Google employee (now that they have acquired his company). I
interviewed him way back in the early history of my blog
(http://mfeldstein.com/interview_with_jotspot_co_founders/), and I have
to say he had a profound impact on my thinking. Matt Mullenweg of
WordPress fame (http://photomatt.net/) is also a good candidate.
Second, make a special effort to get talks on Teaching with Web
2.0/Loosely Coupled Sakai/etc. topics. I was happy to see a handful of
such topics pop up organically in Amsterdam and I think we could get
even more if a concerted effort were made. Ideally, it would cut across
the various tracks. The goal would be to prime the pump for some serious
cross-fertilization (to mix metaphors).
Third, I'd love to see a pre-conference U-Camp populated with teachers
who are already doing interesting things. Google Maps, del.icio.us,
PBwiki, or whatever other wild tools are out on the web. These folks
should be actively recruited. (Scholarship money to cover travel?)
Ideally, the outcome would be some concrete directions for one or
several integration projects.
And finally, some post conference follow-up, publicizing a few
particularly interesting projects and making an effort to generate
community excitement and commitment around them. Ideally, these projects
would be both immediately useful to the community and also allow us to
lay more groundwork for a general strategy of developing integrations
with hosted tools that faculty members can add themselves without any
required support from system administrators.
- m
Ian Boston wrote:
> I haven't experimented with google apps, but I have been writing a
> facebook app, and a myspace app over the past few months.
>
> Myspace has no API to speak off and you just have to drop flash
> applications onto it, by cutting and pasting html, which is extremely
> ugly. However it does allow Flash and so most apps are bits of flash
> that a 3rd party server pushes into you myspace profile.
>
> It bans iframes, javascript and css so you cant do hardly anything.
>
> Facebook as a full API in which you get a flay single tool portal that
> consumes facebook markup from your servers and renders it inside their
> portal. Javascript is banned and css is heavily re-writte, but the
> FaceBook Markup Language allows reasonably powerful integration.
> iframes are allowed as is Flash which can be used to do limited
> dynamic work. It also has an AJAX model operating in a controlled space.
>
> IMHO it would re relatively easy to create a FBML portal that you
> could use inside Facebook... but it would require greatly reduced
> functionality from the tools. (eg basic RSS summary information)
>
> The FaceBook api is remarkably like linktool, but it uses a proxy
> rather than an Iframe.
>
>
> oh and there is a java toolkit for the API.
>
> ----
>
> My understanding of the google tools SAML apis is that it would a
> plumbing job to connect Sakai to Google Tools with Guanxi, but I
> should leave UHI to comment more on that.
>
> I haven't looked in detail at the Google portal, but from memory it is
> a AJAX like DIV portal, into which it would be relatively easy to push
> sakai components, again, not all tools would work or make sense here.
>
>
>
> Ian
>
> BTW, the facebook app can (at the moment be found at
> http://apps.facebook.com/inetradio or
> http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=2365937844 ... but its
> still in development )
>
>
> Knoop, Peter wrote:
>> Depending on the level of integration with Sakai you're after initially,
>> the Web Content tool already provides a level of experimentation and
>> eliminates the need for intervention of an IT person to install some
>> tool or service. As long as you're not concerned with passing
>> information back and forth, Web Content is a powerful tool for trying
>> out something for teaching or research that exists outside of Sakai.
>> For example, prior to having a wiki available in Sakai, one of the most
>> common uses for Web Content at the University of Michigan (U-M) was to
>> "integrate" a wiki from some external site into a Sakai course site.
>> Similarly for blogs.
>> I personally used it to integrate the php-based predecessor of the
>> current ImageQuiz tool in Contrib. Doing so provided folks an
>> opportunity to test out the pedagogical benefits of the tool without
>> worrying about the IT behind it, nor requiring a large investment
>> upfront by building it as a Sakai tool from the start. Confident that
>> it proved to be a good teaching tool, we can now worry about the
>> additional nice things one gets by tighter integration with Sakai, such
>> as grading and access to content services.
>> I've also used Web Content to integrate Google Maps in Sakai sites;
>> depending on what you want to do with Google maps, you can now do some
>> nice things with much tighter integration with Sakai -- content,
>> permissions, etc. -- using Edia's Sakai Maps tool in Contrib. I used
>> Web Content to provide access to a near real-time map of the current
>> location of a caravan of vehicles, and to offer push-pins of photos
>> along the way for students and their friends and families (and alumni,
>> who help fund such trips) to view during a two-week geology field trip
>> in the western US.
>>
>> There are things you run across from time-to-time that don't work well
>> with Web Content, such as things that try to take over the whole browser
>> screen, but that doesn't prevent you from trying them. On the whole Web
>> Content is an easy, powerful way for any instructor, IT-savvy or not, to
>> plug in a URL to some site outside of Sakai they would like to try out
>> in their course.
>>
>> -peter
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Feldstein [mailto:michael.feldstein@...]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:44 PM
>>> To: Christopher D. Coppola
>>> Cc: Mara Hancock; sakai-dev Dev; pedagogy@...
>>> Subject: Re: Integrating Sakai with Google apps
>>>
>>> Right on.
>>>
>>> I think it's probably easiest to start with Web 2.0ish
>>> gadgetized/widgetized stuff because (a) it's already been designed for
>>> this type of thing, and (b) there are a lot more opportunities for
>>> teachers to play with these things "in the wild" and bring use cases
>>> back to the community. But ultimately, I'd like to see Sakai-internal
>>> tools move in this direction as well, to the degree that it's
>> practical
>>> to do so.
>>>
>>> - m
>>>
>>>
>>> Christopher D. Coppola wrote:
>>>> I'll just pick up on one of those three to say that the idea in #2
>> is
>>>> one I'm really interested in. If you're not already saying it, I
>> hope
>>>> the idea gets extended to think about the ability to deploy
>>>> tools/gadgets/etc. as simply as you can on the Google portal.
>>>>
>>>> There was another thread on Pedagogy recently under the subject "Re:
>>>> eLearning 2.0 - overview of tools" talking about the tension
>> between
>>>> the structured, controlled, learning environment approach and the
>>>> "small pieces loosely joined" ad-hoc approach to using various tools
>>>> and services...
>>>>
>>>> This idea seems relevant...
>>>>
>>>>> 2. *What would need to be done to make this tool work as a
>>>>> teacher-installable remotely hosted service? *Since individual
>>>>> teachers in many institutions are not empowered to get their IT
>>>>> support staff to install new tools, I would like to see something
>>>>> like this available as something like a Google Gadget that
>>>>> wouldn't require the intervention of an IT person to install. I
>>>>> don't have any idea what would be involved technically, but given
>>>>> the relatively low overhead of this sort of application, it might
>>>>> be an interesting test case for the Sakai community.
>>>> /Chris.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------
>>>> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
>>>> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development
>>>> (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
>>>> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
>>>> Preferences.
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Oracle Email Signature Logo
>>> Michael Feldstein | Principal Product Manager | 818.817.2925
>>> Oracle Academic Enterprise Solutions
>>> PO Box 307, Glendale, MA 01229
>>> [see attachment: "unknown.html", size: 3319 bytes]
>>>
>>> [see attachment: "oracle_sig_logo.gif", size: 658 bytes]
>>>
>>> [see attachment: "michael.feldstein.vcf", size: 304 bytes]
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachments:
>>>
>>> unknown.html
>>> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/4ff13d62-
>>> e6e8-492a-00fa-ebc4b9734815/unknown.html
>>>
>>> oracle_sig_logo.gif
>>> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/f85621da-
>>> 9a02-46cb-00a5-606a6d497aaa/oracle_sig_logo.gif
>>>
>>> michael.feldstein.vcf
>>> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/d557e42b-
>>> 329a-4832-80c0-c52bcbf8935e/michael.feldstein.vcf
>>>
>>> ----------------------
>>> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
>>> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Pedagogy site.
>>> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
>>> Preferences.
>>
>> ----------------------
>> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
>> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development
>> (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
>> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
>> Preferences.
>>
>
> ----------------------
> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
> (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Development
> (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
> You can modify how you receive notifications at My Workspace >
> Preferences.
>
--
Oracle Email Signature Logo
Michael Feldstein | Principal Product Manager | 818.817.2925
Oracle Academic Enterprise Solutions
PO Box 307, Glendale, MA 01229
[see attachment: "unknown.html", size: 14505 bytes]
[see attachment: "oracle_sig_logo.gif", size: 658 bytes]
[see attachment: "michael.feldstein.vcf", size: 304 bytes]
Attachments:
unknown.html
https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/bfee5955-b1a4-47fe-000e-43ee41e63ffd/unknown.html
oracle_sig_logo.gif
https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/05651557-1ae7-49f7-801d-a09db12366c2/oracle_sig_logo.gif
michael.feldstein.vcf
https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/c1754173-441b-4d80-00d6-03c86d70c550/michael.feldstein.vcf
----------------------
This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab (https://collab.sakaiproject.org/portal) from the DG: Pedagogy site.
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