Re: Last response: oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4

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Re: Last response: oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4

by John Blake-4 :: Rate this Message:

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I am not saying that the Mac is better than OpenSource I was saying (if
you had read into my cryptic clue in the posting) that of the two closed
sources (Windows and Mac) Mac was better as it has been looking at it
seriously since 2005 - Windows 7 (4 years on) is playing catch up! Orca
is THE best!

Best regards,
John.

-----Original Message-----
From: oats-sig-bounces@...
[mailto:oats-sig-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
oats-sig-request@...
Sent: 10 October 2009 12:00
To: oats-sig@...
Subject: oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4

Send oats-sig mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Items 1 and 3 of oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3 (John Blake)
2. Re: Contents Item 4, oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3 (John Blake)
3. Re: Items 1 and 3 of oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3
(~:'' ???????????)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 12:39:57 +0100
From: John Blake <jblake@...>
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Items 1 and 3 of oats-sig Digest, Vol 57,
Issue 3
To: <oats-sig@...>
Message-ID: <A7F1BA1B07FDD941802C15701C0C1988926A17@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Peeps,
Would just like to say that of the two platforms (and I don't personally
own one) the Mac has to be better because it has been doing AT for
longer but I speak only in a 'closed-source' framework; somewhat ironic
that VoiceOver on the Mac works with OpenOffice.org 3.0 flawlessly - you
(the department) spent a large wad on Office for Mac and it is not
compatible with voice over! 'Buyer beware'... Of course Open Source is
best when one considers Orca and the best distribution that it works on
for my money is the specially crafted version of Ubuntu called 'Ultimate
Edition' now at 2.3. (No prizes for why the title is called 'Ultimate
Edition'!) It is crafted by one man (whose NIC is "Thee Mahn" - it is
the first Open Source distro that I have come across that worked well in
terms of the live F5 key (or is it F6) for Accessibility. In terms of
the best voice in Open Source that has to go to Fedora 11.0 but to my
cost when I was trying to install DVD video codecs it broke (repository
was trying to install bits from Fedora 12.0! Oh to be a hacker!) We have
to remember that Orca is written by people with disabilities who rely on
the technology day in, day out - now that's outstanding!

Best regards,
John Blake.
-----Original Message-----
From: oats-sig-bounces@...
[mailto:oats-sig-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
oats-sig-request@...
Sent: 09 October 2009 12:00
To: oats-sig@...
Subject: oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3

Send oats-sig mailing list submissions to
oats-sig@...

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of oats-sig digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Big improvements to Windows 7 Magnifier and OSK (Will Wade)
2. Using SVG images (Steve Lee)
3. Re: Big improvements to Windows 7 Magnifier and OSK (Steve Lee)
4. Re: Using SVG images (~:'' ???????????)
5. Re: Using SVG images (Steve Lee)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:15:05 +0100
From: Will Wade <Wade@...>
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Big improvements to Windows 7 Magnifier and
OSK
To: "OATs Project Special Interest Group"
<oats-sig@...>
Message-ID: <EBAB1F9BAA611B4C93524E76F7BA28CB34FC8F@aceserver2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Bit slow on reading my newslists..
That video made me smile. I realise I come across as a complete mac
fanatic on these lists - I just wanted to say that if you aren't already
aware those "features" of osk and mag have been in OS X for a long time
(well since 2005 as far as my memory can remember)..

> -----Original Message-----
> From: oats-sig-bounces@... [mailto:oats-sig-
> bounces@...] On Behalf Of Steve Lee
> Sent: 21 September 2009 15:23
> To: OATs Project Special Interest Group
> Subject: [oats-sig] Big improvements to Windows 7 Magnifier and OSK
>
> This video shows how much the mag and OSK solutions bundled with the
> OS have improved (who at the back there said said "about time too"?).
>
> http://is.gd/3wIiE
>
> (via AbilityNet newsletter)
>
> Steve Lee
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:51:58 +0100
From: Steve Lee <steve@...>
Subject: [oats-sig] Using SVG images
To: OATs Project Special Interest Group <oats-sig@...>
Message-ID:
<b30ac56c0910080751s4a46eb8eq83e8ec2041d1b0e0@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Can we please develop better support for SVG please?

http://eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog/756782.html

--
Steve Lee

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 16:38:48 +0100
From: Steve Lee <steve@...>
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Big improvements to Windows 7 Magnifier and
OSK
To: OATs Project Special Interest Group <oats-sig@...>
Message-ID:
<b30ac56c0910080838s4dde15b6g82036c112e812d17@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

So you were trying to make us think you are not a 'Mac fanataic'? :-0

Though Apple are closed and the engineers won't with people like Mozilla
for Firefox accessibility they are doing good things. And it seems to be
getting better looking at the iphone/ipod voice over work.

Steve

2009/10/8 Will Wade <Wade@...>:
> Bit slow on reading my newslists..
> That video made me smile. I realise I come across as a complete mac
> fanatic on these lists - I just wanted to say that if you aren't
already
> aware those "features" of osk and mag have been in OS X for a long
time

> (well since 2005 ?as far as my memory can remember)..
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: oats-sig-bounces@... [mailto:oats-sig-
>> bounces@...] On Behalf Of Steve Lee
>> Sent: 21 September 2009 15:23
>> To: OATs Project Special Interest Group
>> Subject: [oats-sig] Big improvements to Windows 7 Magnifier and OSK
>>
>> This video shows how much the mag and OSK solutions bundled with the
>> OS have improved (who at the back there said said "about time too"?).
>>
>> http://is.gd/3wIiE
>>
>> (via AbilityNet newsletter)
>>
>> Steve Lee
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 19:20:03 +0100
From: "~:'' ???????????" <j.chetwynd@...>
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Using SVG images
To: OATs Project Special Interest Group <oats-sig@...>
Message-ID: <B02136DC-101F-4024-A3E2-52710FA37685@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Steve,

I regularly raise this issue with a number of the W3C working groups.
The issue is complex and wont be resolved for some time.

best

~:"

Last week, I submitted a chapter proposal 'Beyond Open Source' for a
soon to be published book, on a very closely related topic.
Its my thesis that the specification process is structurally flawed,

its not so much that the authoring tools have not been implemented
rather that the specification was created by browser developers not by
and for
naive end-users,
authors including non-technically literate teachers,
authoring tool developers.
any of the above who may require alternative affordances.

testing with these groups, if there is any, is extremely limited.
so one cannot be over-surprised by the results....

in particular I am in the process of raising awareness regarding the
requirement for a W3C games working group also WHATWG etc...

Flash and Java are amazingly successful, but not native to the browser.
How did this get missed in the rush?

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 19:43:17 +0100
From: Steve Lee <steve@...>
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Using SVG images
To: OATs Project Special Interest Group <oats-sig@...>
Message-ID:
<b30ac56c0910081143i4953219em956915905bb86596@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP"

Thanks, I guessed you would have been active on this issue :-) We can
hope.....

Steve

2009/10/8 "~:'' ???????????" <j.chetwynd@...>:

> Steve,
>
> I regularly raise this issue with a number of the W3C working groups.
> The issue is complex and wont be resolved for some time.
>
> best
>
> ~:"
>
>
> Last week, I submitted a chapter proposal 'Beyond Open Source' for a

soon to
> be published book, on a very closely related topic.
> Its my thesis that the specification process is structurally flawed,
>
> its not so much that the authoring tools have not been implemented
> rather that the specification was created by browser developers not by

> and for
> naive end-users,
> authors including non-technically literate teachers,
> authoring tool developers.
> any of the above who may require alternative affordances.
>
> testing with these groups, if there is any, is extremely limited.
> so one cannot be over-surprised by the results....
>
> in particular I am in the process of raising awareness regarding the
> requirement for a W3C games working group also WHATWG etc...
>
> Flash and Java are amazingly successful, but not native to the

browser.
> How did this get missed in the rush?
>
>

End of oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3
***************************************

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 13:01:20 +0100
From: John Blake <jblake@...>
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Contents Item 4, oats-sig Digest, Vol 57,
Issue 3
To: <oats-sig@...>
Message-ID: <A7F1BA1B07FDD941802C15701C0C1988926A20@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Peeps,

Has anyone looked at work undertaken by Zaineb Ben Fredj? I attended a
seminar at Tactile Graphics 2008 and it was very interesting - her work
is being undertaken at Oxford Brookes University and sponsored by i-log
a multinational graphics company who are keen to see a solution to
'meaningful' graphics to people with a visual/other disability (for a
copy of the notes I took plus bits copied from website links to the
above lady as the slides weren't up long enough to take a picture of
with my mobile are there - might be useful might be not - I am not
technical but it is a very interesting project. The notes can be found
here (in *.pdf format created via OpenOffice.org 2.4 on Sabayon 3.5.1!):

http://collaboration.becta.org.uk/docs/DOC-1520

Best regards,
John Blake.

-----Original Message-----
From: oats-sig-bounces@...
[mailto:oats-sig-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
oats-sig-request@...
Sent: 09 October 2009 12:00
To: oats-sig@...
Subject: oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3

Send oats-sig mailing list submissions to
oats-sig@...

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.becta.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/oats-sig
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
oats-sig-request@...

You can reach the person managing the list at
oats-sig-owner@...

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of oats-sig digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Big improvements to Windows 7 Magnifier and OSK (Will Wade)
2. Using SVG images (Steve Lee)
3. Re: Big improvements to Windows 7 Magnifier and OSK (Steve Lee)
4. Re: Using SVG images (~:'' ???????????)
5. Re: Using SVG images (Steve Lee)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:15:05 +0100
From: Will Wade <Wade@...>
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Big improvements to Windows 7 Magnifier and
OSK
To: "OATs Project Special Interest Group"
<oats-sig@...>
Message-ID: <EBAB1F9BAA611B4C93524E76F7BA28CB34FC8F@aceserver2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Bit slow on reading my newslists..
That video made me smile. I realise I come across as a complete mac
fanatic on these lists - I just wanted to say that if you aren't already
aware those "features" of osk and mag have been in OS X for a long time
(well since 2005 as far as my memory can remember)..

browser.
> How did this get missed in the rush?
>
>

End of oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3
***************************************

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 16:36:34 +0100
From: "~:'' ???????????" <j.chetwynd@...>
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Items 1 and 3 of oats-sig Digest, Vol 57,
Issue 3
To: OATs Project Special Interest Group <oats-sig@...>
Message-ID: <5F2A2BBF-44CE-4E86-8D8B-1B2020AD3A8E@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes

John,

on what basis do you make the assertion 'the Mac has to be better
because it has been doing AT for longer' ?

regards

~:"

End of oats-sig Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
***************************************