Re: Linux Journal article on KDE on Windows

[Ralf Habacker]

Hi,

does anyone answered this request in a private mail ?  If not, it would
be for interest why nobody answered.

Regards
 Ralf

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[Bernhard Reiter]

Am Samstag, 31. Oktober 2009 17:11:54 schrieb Ralf Habacker:
> does anyone answered this request in a private mail ?

At least I didn't.

> If not, it would be for interest why nobody answered.

Hmm I found some questions hard to be answered or a little beside the point -
beside having not time so I thought I'd better not answer.

Here my quick thoughts on the questions, if that is helpful to anyone:

Am Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2009 11:40:59 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:
> How did the project get started - who started the project?
> What were the aims?
> Have these aims been met? Will they be?

(No answers to the first three as I've stopped calling ever ongoing
initiatives a "project", beside I do not know.)
A initiative like KDE on Windows will draw people with different aims.

My personal aim is to get a cross plattform Kolab Groupware client available
and I am coordinating a group which had some contracts that partly fund our
work on this. Also I am interested in a cross plattform crypto certificate
manager. So its Kontact, Kleopatra an all libraries below that were
interesting for my developers from Intevation and KDAB.

Kontact for windows is in Beta, the last installer is here
http://wiki.kolab.org/index.php/Kontact_for_Windows_(beta-huge-debug)
(We've done many improvements since then, but did not new installer.)

Gpg4win 2.0.1 is published in production quality: http://www.gpg4win.org/

> Do you have any idea of which are the most popular applications among
> Windows users?

I guess Kleopatra from Gpg4win - if that counts:
We currently have about 3000 downloads a day
and the installer also came on CDs (like the Heise security edition) and
can be aquired from other download portals. However while that would
extrapolate towards about 1 Million users trying a Gpg4win revision, I have
no idea what the download rates for the KDE on Windows installer with all
the other applications is.

> Has the core KDE community been supportive? (for example, the e.V.,
> upstream developers of applications you package)

Our developers are doing kdepim and kleopatra, so we are upstream for that
cause and have been supportive of ourself. ;)

> Has the KDE community as a whole been supportive? (Including users)

It seems Windows users have different expectations from KDE users on other
plattforms. So those people fresh to KDE would need a different explanation
and motivation to give feedback. So more help could come on the communication
and testing side of things, but this really depends on the application I
believe.

> Has KDE on Windows brought new users or developers or users to KDE? (I'd be
> particularly interested to hear from anyone who _started_ with KDE on
> Windows as a user or developer. The FAQ mentions an Amarok developer who
> apparently got involved through an interest in Amarok on Windows)

(Is using a product like Kleopatra, where a big bunch of KDE libraries coming
with it, considered for the question? If so: Yes, lots of new users with
Gpg4win2. :) )

> What have you learned about packaging for Windows users? For example, the
> Installer has seen some changes, with more splitting in to individual
> packages rather than KDE modules - was this in response to user feedback?

I've participated in a few packaging discussions and it is my conviction that
packaging of Free Software on Windows is an issue and will likely continue to
be an issue in general. Without repeating too much of the discussion:
* Most windows deployers just do  a single installer and put in a lot of
testing into this one installer, may it be .msi or something else. Windows
users expect this. We fail this expectation currently and we are bound to
fail it because there are too many KDE applications.
* KDE with many libraries is different and Windows' native packaging system
(Windows Installer aka .msi) does not cope with this well.

There is no good solution for packaging.

> Are there any exciting changes to KDE on Windows that will be arriving as a
> result of KDE 4.4?

(Cannot say at the moment, lacking the overview. My group does lot of work on
the Kontact Prototype-E5 which is Akonadi based, but I am unsure how much of
this will hit users with KDE 4.4. We have to work in branches often, because
of the contracts which do set some limits, but everyhing is ported forward.
The windows porting happend in trunk and so does the akonadi development
right now.)

> Roughly how many people are actively involved in the KDE on Windows
> project?

(Hard to tell, it depends how you count, I mean the good part about a cross
platform gui is that development improvements in the common code help all
platforms. And then: What is active? I guess there are around 20 active
people.)

Bernhard

--
Managing Director - Owner: www.intevation.net       (Free Software Company)
Germany Coordinator: fsfeurope.org. Coordinator: www.Kolab-Konsortium.com.
Intevation GmbH, Osnabrück, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabrück, HRB 18998
Geschäftsführer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner


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[Bernhard Reiter]

Am Montag, 2. November 2009 15:58:03 schrieb Bernhard Reiter:

> Am Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2009 11:40:59 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:
> > How did the project get started - who started the project?
> > What were the aims?
> > Have these aims been met? Will they be?
>
> (No answers to the first three as I've stopped calling ever ongoing
> initiatives a "project", beside I do not know.)
> A initiative like KDE on Windows will draw people with different aims.
>
> My personal aim

From the viewpoint of Free Software and KDE in general
there are more aspects (getting deliberately carried away. :) ):

* Computing is there to aid the human in front of the machine
and a major factor is learning how to use an application.
If an application is available on many platforms there is much more incentive
to study and make use of it for a longer period. KDE can make this possible.
* To me it is desirable to bring more people in touch with Free Software, open
development and community. KDE offers great software and a thriving community
so it can be a good ambassador for windows users into the Free Software
world. Regarding the ability to actually influence the core of the software,
KDE is much better than Iceweasel or OpenOffice.org.
* KDE on Windows is done, because we can! Qt is a good Free Software
development framework, and Nokia's engagement to liberate it from Trolltech's
proprietary business model and release under the GNU Lesser GPL even gave it
a boost.

> is to get a cross plattform Kolab Groupware client
> available

Together with Kolab Server, Kontact thus becomes a stronger Outlook/Exchange
or Lotus Notes competitor in the business space.

> and I am coordinating a group which had some contracts that
> partly fund our work on this. Also I am interested in a cross plattform
> crypto certificate manager. So its Kontact, Kleopatra an all libraries
> below that were interesting for my developers from Intevation and KDAB.
>
> Kontact for windows is in Beta, the last installer is here
> http://wiki.kolab.org/index.php/Kontact_for_Windows_(beta-huge-debug)
> (We've done many improvements since then, but did not new installer.)
>
> Gpg4win 2.0.1 is published in production quality: http://www.gpg4win.org/

Anyone interested in widely available protection for end-to-end communication
(which means potential communication protection against organised crime and
government suppression) will welcome that people on windows can be kept as
communication partners to further OpenPGP or S/MIME email encryption and
signatures with help of KDE and Kleopatra.

How does privacy and computing works in the cloud? If you dislike the idea to
just buy a locked-down device with a webbrowser and enter all your data into
Giigle, being able to run your own software and personal data store which
syncs into several divers directions is something you should look into.
Kdepim and Akonadi enables this form of computing. Some might call it
old-fashioned, probably the same people that never used an email client,
except on the web. But the virtues of privacy and a local running user
interface are timeless.  By making KDE - which is offline-capable software -
available on windows, we build an attractive offer.

Bernhard
--
Managing Director - Owner: www.intevation.net       (Free Software Company)
Germany Coordinator: fsfeurope.org. Coordinator: www.Kolab-Konsortium.com.
Intevation GmbH, Osnabrück, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabrück, HRB 18998
Geschäftsführer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner


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[Stuart Jarvis]

On Monday 02 November 2009 14:58:03 Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> Am Samstag, 31. Oktober 2009 17:11:54 schrieb Ralf Habacker:
> > does anyone answered this request in a private mail ?
>
I had some answers from Patrick Spendrin and also from Torsten Rahn (the
latter specifically re Marble). I contacted them at the same time as sending
the email to this list, not realising that Patrick was also subscribed here.

> At least I didn't.
>
> > If not, it would be for interest why nobody answered.
>
Yes - in particular if I asked things in the wrong way it would be useful to
know so next time I can do it better, but perhaps people are just busy.
Sometimes a direct email with specific questions is more likely to get a
response than a very general one to a mailing list so I used that too.

In general I have what I need now for the article - it is written. But from
your responses I think there may be potential to look at some other aspects of
KDe software on Windows, not provided by the windows.kde.org installer.
However, that will be a different article.

> Hmm I found some questions hard to be answered or a little beside the point
>  - beside having not time so I thought I'd better not answer.
>
Fair enough. I put the questions together in a bit of a rush. I also asked
some that were a bit silly or that I knew the answer to - really just fishing
for some quotes as they liven up an article a bit and sometimes the simple
questions can get some quite interesting answers.

> Here my quick thoughts on the questions, if that is helpful to anyone:
>
> Am Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2009 11:40:59 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:
> > How did the project get started - who started the project?
> > What were the aims?
> > Have these aims been met? Will they be?
>
> (No answers to the first three as I've stopped calling ever ongoing
> initiatives a "project", beside I do not know.)

:-)

> A initiative like KDE on Windows will draw people with different aims.
>
> My personal aim is to get a cross plattform Kolab Groupware client
>  available and I am coordinating a group which had some contracts that
>  partly fund our work on this. Also I am interested in a cross plattform
>  crypto certificate manager. So its Kontact, Kleopatra an all libraries
>  below that were interesting for my developers from Intevation and KDAB.
>
> Kontact for windows is in Beta, the last installer is here
> http://wiki.kolab.org/index.php/Kontact_for_Windows_(beta-huge-debug)
> (We've done many improvements since then, but did not new installer.)
>
> Gpg4win 2.0.1 is published in production quality: http://www.gpg4win.org/
>

All interesting things. Here I was looking specifically at KDE on Windows using
the installer from windows.kde.org but it might be interesting in future to
write something on standalone KDE apps such as the Kolab Kontact work.
Unfortunately at the moment my day job is keeping my very busy, but perhaps
one day...

> > Do you have any idea of which are the most popular applications among
> > Windows users?
>
> I guess Kleopatra from Gpg4win - if that counts:
> We currently have about 3000 downloads a day
> and the installer also came on CDs (like the Heise security edition) and
> can be aquired from other download portals. However while that would
> extrapolate towards about 1 Million users trying a Gpg4win revision, I have
> no idea what the download rates for the KDE on Windows installer with all
> the other applications is.

Quite impressive figures.
>
> > Has the core KDE community been supportive? (for example, the e.V.,
> > upstream developers of applications you package)
>
> Our developers are doing kdepim and kleopatra, so we are upstream for that
> cause and have been supportive of ourself. ;)

:-)

>
> > Has the KDE community as a whole been supportive? (Including users)
>
> It seems Windows users have different expectations from KDE users on other
> plattforms. So those people fresh to KDE would need a different explanation
> and motivation to give feedback. So more help could come on the
>  communication and testing side of things, but this really depends on the
>  application I believe.
>
> > Has KDE on Windows brought new users or developers or users to KDE? (I'd
> > be particularly interested to hear from anyone who _started_ with KDE on
> > Windows as a user or developer. The FAQ mentions an Amarok developer who
> > apparently got involved through an interest in Amarok on Windows)
>
> (Is using a product like Kleopatra, where a big bunch of KDE libraries
>  coming with it, considered for the question? If so: Yes, lots of new users
>  with Gpg4win2. :) )
>

Yes, I guess a follow up question is do they only see Kleopatra as a
standalone application (and use that, which is nice) or do they understadnnd
it is related to KDE and then try and find out more about that and see what
else KDE can offer? Not an easy one to answer.

> > What have you learned about packaging for Windows users? For example, the
> > Installer has seen some changes, with more splitting in to individual
> > packages rather than KDE modules - was this in response to user feedback?
>
> I've participated in a few packaging discussions and it is my conviction
>  that packaging of Free Software on Windows is an issue and will likely
>  continue to be an issue in general. Without repeating too much of the
>  discussion: * Most windows deployers just do  a single installer and put
>  in a lot of testing into this one installer, may it be .msi or something
>  else. Windows users expect this. We fail this expectation currently and we
>  are bound to fail it because there are too many KDE applications.
> * KDE with many libraries is different and Windows' native packaging system
> (Windows Installer aka .msi) does not cope with this well.
>

The big free software successes have generally followed the path you mention
of a single well-tested installer. I've discussed this with Patrick and it's
something I talk about in the article.

> There is no good solution for packaging.
>
> > Are there any exciting changes to KDE on Windows that will be arriving as
> > a result of KDE 4.4?
>
> (Cannot say at the moment, lacking the overview. My group does lot of work
>  on the Kontact Prototype-E5 which is Akonadi based, but I am unsure how
>  much of this will hit users with KDE 4.4. We have to work in branches
>  often, because of the contracts which do set some limits, but everyhing is
>  ported forward. The windows porting happend in trunk and so does the
>  akonadi development right now.)
>
> > Roughly how many people are actively involved in the KDE on Windows
> > project?
>
> (Hard to tell, it depends how you count, I mean the good part about a cross
> platform gui is that development improvements in the common code help all
> platforms. And then: What is active? I guess there are around 20 active
> people.)

Yeah, it's a horrible question - what is "involved" and what is "active"? But
thanks for trying to put a figure on it. It is useful to know that it is tens
rather than less than ten or a hundred.

Cheers,
Stuart
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[Stuart Jarvis]

Ah, I just saw you sent a second email - I will come to that one now

On Tuesday 03 November 2009 09:05:07 Bernhard Reiter wrote:

> Am Montag, 2. November 2009 15:58:03 schrieb Bernhard Reiter:
> > Am Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2009 11:40:59 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:
> > > How did the project get started - who started the project?
> > > What were the aims?
> > > Have these aims been met? Will they be?
> >
> > (No answers to the first three as I've stopped calling ever ongoing
> > initiatives a "project", beside I do not know.)
> > A initiative like KDE on Windows will draw people with different aims.
> >
> > My personal aim
>
> From the viewpoint of Free Software and KDE in general
> there are more aspects (getting deliberately carried away. :) ):
>
> * Computing is there to aid the human in front of the machine
> and a major factor is learning how to use an application.
> If an application is available on many platforms there is much more
>  incentive to study and make use of it for a longer period. KDE can make
>  this possible. * To me it is desirable to bring more people in touch with
>  Free Software, open development and community. KDE offers great software
>  and a thriving community so it can be a good ambassador for windows users
>  into the Free Software world. Regarding the ability to actually influence
>  the core of the software, KDE is much better than Iceweasel or
>  OpenOffice.org.
> * KDE on Windows is done, because we can! Qt is a good Free Software
> development framework, and Nokia's engagement to liberate it from
>  Trolltech's proprietary business model and release under the GNU Lesser
>  GPL even gave it a boost.

I like "because we can!". That's always a great answer :-)
>
> > is to get a cross plattform Kolab Groupware client
> > available
>
> Together with Kolab Server, Kontact thus becomes a stronger
>  Outlook/Exchange or Lotus Notes competitor in the business space.
>
I think I'll have to look in to this more when I have some time and seriously
think about an article. Please drop an email to kde-promo@... any time
there is something significant to report from this (such as a new release
/updated installer of Kontact for Windows from Kolab).

> > and I am coordinating a group which had some contracts that
> > partly fund our work on this. Also I am interested in a cross plattform
> > crypto certificate manager. So its Kontact, Kleopatra an all libraries
> > below that were interesting for my developers from Intevation and KDAB.
> >
> > Kontact for windows is in Beta, the last installer is here
> > http://wiki.kolab.org/index.php/Kontact_for_Windows_(beta-huge-debug)
> > (We've done many improvements since then, but did not new installer.)
> >
> > Gpg4win 2.0.1 is published in production quality: http://www.gpg4win.org/
>
> Anyone interested in widely available protection for end-to-end
>  communication (which means potential communication protection against
>  organised crime and government suppression) will welcome that people on
>  windows can be kept as communication partners to further OpenPGP or S/MIME
>  email encryption and signatures with help of KDE and Kleopatra.
>

Actually, I need to look in to Kleopatra a bit more too (I don't think
anyone's done a dot article about that, it seems to have just appeared
silently) but I like what I think it provides.

> How does privacy and computing works in the cloud? If you dislike the idea
>  to just buy a locked-down device with a webbrowser and enter all your data
>  into Giigle, being able to run your own software and personal data store
>  which syncs into several divers directions is something you should look
>  into. Kdepim and Akonadi enables this form of computing. Some might call
>  it old-fashioned, probably the same people that never used an email
>  client, except on the web. But the virtues of privacy and a local running
>  user interface are timeless.  By making KDE - which is offline-capable
>  software - available on windows, we build an attractive offer.

It all looks very modern to me :-) I was still using POP for email until a
couple of years ago and only discovered the Kolab calendar via IMAP stuff a few
months ago.

So, thanks again. A few things for me to think about for potential future
articles, one day, when I have time.

Btw, I'll be signing up for the mailing list shortly so I can keep a bit of a
better eye on things in the KDE on Windows world.

Cheers,
Stuart
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[Bernhard Reiter]

Am Dienstag, 3. November 2009 13:16:35 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:

> > > Has KDE on Windows brought new users or developers or users to KDE?
> > > (I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who _started_ with
> > > KDE on Windows as a user or developer. The FAQ mentions an Amarok
> > > developer who apparently got involved through an interest in Amarok on
> > > Windows)
> >
> > (Is using a product like Kleopatra, where a big bunch of KDE libraries
> >  coming with it, considered for the question? If so: Yes, lots of new
> > users with Gpg4win2. :) )
>
> Yes, I guess a follow up question is do they only see Kleopatra as a
> standalone application (and use that, which is nice) or do they
> understadnnd it is related to KDE and then try and find out more about that
> and see what else KDE can offer? Not an easy one to answer.

With current Gpg4win, KDE is not as visible as it should. People might not
recognise Kleopatra as a KDE application, it is the whole package they use,
e.g. directly from within Outlook (if they are using GpgOL).


--
Managing Director - Owner: www.intevation.net       (Free Software Company)
Germany Coordinator: fsfeurope.org. Coordinator: www.Kolab-Konsortium.com.
Intevation GmbH, Osnabrück, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabrück, HRB 18998
Geschäftsführer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner


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[Bernhard Reiter]

Am Dienstag, 3. November 2009 17:21:10 schrieb Bernhard Reiter:

> Am Dienstag, 3. November 2009 13:16:35 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:
> > > > Has KDE on Windows brought new users or developers or users to KDE?
> > > > (I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who _started_
> > > > with KDE on Windows as a user or developer. The FAQ mentions an
> > > > Amarok developer who apparently got involved through an interest in
> > > > Amarok on Windows)
> > >
> > > (Is using a product like Kleopatra, where a big bunch of KDE libraries
> > >  coming with it, considered for the question? If so: Yes, lots of new
> > > users with Gpg4win2. :) )
> >
> > Yes, I guess a follow up question is do they only see Kleopatra as a
> > standalone application (and use that, which is nice) or do they
> > understadnnd it is related to KDE and then try and find out more about
> > that and see what else KDE can offer? Not an easy one to answer.
>
> With current Gpg4win, KDE is not as visible as it should. People might not
> recognise Kleopatra as a KDE application, it is the whole package they use,
> e.g. directly from within Outlook (if they are using GpgOL).

I consider doing a "KDE inside" thing to make this more visible at several
places, because the general "KDE" help tab is not really well integrated and
understood. The logo or text could be displayed in more places.
Maybe this is a good idea in general as KDE technology (and community efforts)
will get into more and more slick products in the future.

Bernhard

--
Managing Director - Owner: www.intevation.net       (Free Software Company)
Germany Coordinator: fsfeurope.org. Coordinator: www.Kolab-Konsortium.com.
Intevation GmbH, Osnabrück, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabrück, HRB 18998
Geschäftsführer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner


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On Wednesday 04 November 2009 10:06:23 Bernhard Reiter wrote:

>   Am Dienstag, 3. November 2009 17:21:10 schrieb Bernhard Reiter:
> > Am Dienstag, 3. November 2009 13:16:35 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:
> > > > > Has KDE on Windows brought new users or developers or users to KDE?
> > > > > (I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who started
> > > > > with KDE on Windows as a user or developer. The FAQ mentions an
> > > > > Amarok developer who apparently got involved through an interest in
> > > > > Amarok on Windows)
> > > >
> > > > (Is using a product like Kleopatra, where a big bunch of KDE
> > > > libraries coming with it, considered for the question? If so: Yes,
> > > > lots of new users with Gpg4win2. :) )
> > >
> > > Yes, I guess a follow up question is do they only see Kleopatra as a
> > > standalone application (and use that, which is nice) or do they
> > > understadnnd it is related to KDE and then try and find out more about
> > > that and see what else KDE can offer? Not an easy one to answer.
> >
> > With current Gpg4win, KDE is not as visible as it should. People might
> > not recognise Kleopatra as a KDE application, it is the whole package
> > they use, e.g. directly from within Outlook (if they are using GpgOL).
>
> I consider doing a "KDE inside" thing to make this more visible at several
> places, because the general "KDE" help tab is not really well integrated
>  and  understood. The logo or text could be displayed in more places.
> Maybe this is a good idea in general as KDE technology (and community
>  efforts)  will get into more and more slick products in the future.

It has one problem, KDE is a very fuzzy concept right now. So just "KDE inside" won't
work well. (Also might sound too much of a rip-off from Intel.)

The idea of making the connection to KDE visible is good though. For sub-brands, the
marketing team has gone into the direction of calling things "A KDE Project" (this is
more in line with recent re-branding efforts that separate  KDE applications,
workspace, platform and the community as different sub-brands. This process is
ongoing, though, but surely good to keep in mind when thinking of promoting (parts
of) KDE.
--
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
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[Stuart Jarvis]

On Wednesday 04 November 2009 12:11:47 Sebastian Kügler wrote:

> On Wednesday 04 November 2009 10:06:23 Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> >   Am Dienstag, 3. November 2009 17:21:10 schrieb Bernhard Reiter:
> > > Am Dienstag, 3. November 2009 13:16:35 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:
> > > > > > Has KDE on Windows brought new users or developers or users to
> > > > > > KDE? (I'd be particularly interested to hear from anyone who
> > > > > > started with KDE on Windows as a user or developer. The FAQ
> > > > > > mentions an Amarok developer who apparently got involved through
> > > > > > an interest in Amarok on Windows)
> > > > >
> > > > > (Is using a product like Kleopatra, where a big bunch of KDE
> > > > > libraries coming with it, considered for the question? If so: Yes,
> > > > > lots of new users with Gpg4win2. :) )
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I guess a follow up question is do they only see Kleopatra as a
> > > > standalone application (and use that, which is nice) or do they
> > > > understadnnd it is related to KDE and then try and find out more
> > > > about that and see what else KDE can offer? Not an easy one to
> > > > answer.
> > >
> > > With current Gpg4win, KDE is not as visible as it should. People might
> > > not recognise Kleopatra as a KDE application, it is the whole package
> > > they use, e.g. directly from within Outlook (if they are using GpgOL).
> >
> > I consider doing a "KDE inside" thing to make this more visible at
> > several places, because the general "KDE" help tab is not really well
> > integrated and  understood. The logo or text could be displayed in more
> > places. Maybe this is a good idea in general as KDE technology (and
> > community efforts)  will get into more and more slick products in the
> > future.
>
> It has one problem, KDE is a very fuzzy concept right now. So just "KDE
>  inside" won't work well. (Also might sound too much of a rip-off from
>  Intel.)
>

Sebas you beat me to it :-) I agree "KDE inside" is probably not quite right
for reasons you say.

> The idea of making the connection to KDE visible is good though. For
>  sub-brands, the marketing team has gone into the direction of calling
>  things "A KDE Project" (this is more in line with recent re-branding
>  efforts that separate  KDE applications, workspace, platform and the
>  community as different sub-brands. This process is ongoing, though, but
>  surely good to keep in mind when thinking of promoting (parts of) KDE.
>
We're aiming to discuss these general branding issues at the promo sprint next
week. Perhaps we can include thinking about a "KDE inside" idea too. Are there
other applications that might benefit from something similar? Some kind of
graphics might also be useful for websites for applications that are built on
KDE libraries but not part of KDE 4 or extragear and not hosted on *.kde.org

Stu
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[Bernhard Reiter]

Am Mittwoch, 4. November 2009 14:57:43 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:
> > It has one problem, KDE is a very fuzzy concept right now. So just "KDE
> >  inside" won't work well. (Also might sound too much of a rip-off from
> >  Intel.)
>
> Sebas you beat me to it :-) I agree "KDE inside" is probably not quite
> right for reasons you say.

I thought about it a bit and I do not think that "X inside" can be protected
as word trademark and it is something that expresses the idea quite clearly.
But of course I am open for everything reasonable here. Just a KDE related
graphics could be a start or anything along the lines "KDE
buildingblock", "KDE piece" "Build with KDE".

> > The idea of making the connection to KDE visible is good though. For
> >  sub-brands, the marketing team has gone into the direction of calling
> >  things "A KDE Project"

I strongly suggest to not use "project" to describe a long term Free Software
initiative because it clashes with the stricter meaning of project in the
business realm, that is having resources, goals and an end.
I can explain this in more detail, if you like.

> >  (this is more in line with recent re-branding
> >  efforts that separate  KDE applications, workspace, platform and the
> >  community as different sub-brands. This process is ongoing, though, but
> >  surely good to keep in mind when thinking of promoting (parts of) KDE.

> We're aiming to discuss these general branding issues at the promo sprint
> next week. Perhaps we can include thinking about a "KDE inside" idea too.
> Are there other applications that might benefit from something similar?
> Some kind of graphics might also be useful for websites for applications
> that are built on KDE libraries but not part of KDE 4 or extragear and not
> hosted on *.kde.org

Doing a stand-a-lone slick-ass stand-a-lone installer for Okular on windows
and link it from http://pdfreaders.org/ could be a major hit for "build with
KDE side". ;)

Bernhard
--
Managing Director - Owner: www.intevation.net       (Free Software Company)
Germany Coordinator: fsfeurope.org. Coordinator: www.Kolab-Konsortium.com.
Intevation GmbH, Osnabrück, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabrück, HRB 18998
Geschäftsführer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner


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