Re: Metonic-Lunar cycle RE: Gregorian calendar jitter and lunar calendar in Wikipedia computus

Dear Brij and Calendar People

A look at the attachment shows that Brij has based his supposed Harappan Calendar on a leap week calendar year of 364 days resulting in a lunar year of just 352 days from skipping the 13^th day of each month.  A twelve month lunar year needs 354 or 355 days. I doubt that the Harappan used such a calendar (with a 352-day lunar year). The Hebrew Calendar has a postponement rule whose purpose is to prevent to occurrence of a 352-day year.

Karl

10(07(05

Karl & list, sirs:
>> This causes the minimum number of days in 11 consecutive Metonic
> cycles
> (of 235 lunar months equal to 19 lunisolar years) to be one less than
> for the Gregorian system.
 I had dispaled some of my working on Tithi value=138W/965 and my interpretation of Harappan calendar to be in link with 'TITHI INTERVAL' rather than solar day. I presnt the possible Harappan calendar (also SKIPPING the date 13th in every month). This make the Lunar Year (format - attached) of [12*29.5+12 days] BUT marked to Gregorian months LESS 13th Tithi. Please see:
http://www.brijvij.com/XorT-units-5x47lunation.doc
 http://www.brijvij.com/bb-kp_count-by-week.cycles.doc
Regards,
Brij Bhushan Vij 

(MJD 2454919)/1361+D-097W13-05 (G. Friday, 2009 March 27H21:08 (decimal) EST
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> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:53:38 +0000
> From: karl.palmen@...
> Subject: Re: Gregorian calendar jitter and lunar calendar in Wikipedia computus
> To: CALNDR-L@...
>
> Dear Tom and Calendar People
>
> On the Wikipedia talk page of Computus
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Computus#Unified_system_of_corrections
>
>
> Mockingbird said:
>
> "I have always held that the Gregorian scheme is more accurate than a
> unified scheme. See my post at the beginning of this section. What I
> disagree with is the claim that "jitter" from the solar side is being
> "transmitted" to the lunar side by a unified scheme. The "jitter" on the
> solar side is the motion of the mean and true equinoxes relative to
> midnight (beginning of day) March 21 Gregorian. On the lunar side the
> difference between a fixed date and a fixed annual event is of no
> consequence. The important difference is between the beginning of a
> lunation and the mean and true conjunctions. So nothing is "transmitted"
> from one side to the other."
>
> The first two sentences are clear and important.
>
> Tom later gave a reply that did not seem to address these two sentences,
> but got bogged down in the unclear terminology that followed.
>
> Mockingbird seems to be unaware that the lunar calendar piggy backs on
> the solar calendar and that the scheduling of the tabular lunar months
> and the tabular conjunctions does depend on the scheduling of the solar
> year. If the solar year is a day late, so are the lunar months (which
> Mockingbird refers to as Tabular lunations or lunations). Therefore the
> difference between a fixed date and an annual event such as an equinox
> is of consequence to the lunar calendar. It does affect the difference
> between the beginning of a lunar month and a mean or true conjunction.
> So the jitter is transmitted.
>
> Such a transmission does not occur completely, if there is any
> correlation between the leap years in the solar calendar and the
> corrections in the lunar calendar. The corrections in the lunar calendar
> include the saltus lunae corrections, but these follow a strict 19-year
> cycle so have no correlation with the leap years and so only the
> correlations of corrections to the 19-year cycle need be considered. The
> examples of the uniform corrections systems that Mockingbird provided do
> have considerable correlation. This results in only a partial
> transmission of the jitter and can make it appear that no transmission
> occurs at all.
>
> We do not seem to know which uniform correction computus was proposed by
> Lichtenberg. It may have been one that has the 43 correction centuries
> spaced as evenly as possible. If so, the correlation would be low (but
> never completely absent) and so transmission of jitter would be evident.
>
> Also I want to make it clear that the jitter that is transmitted if the
> motion of a mean equinox placed exactly once every mean calendar year
> and (beginning of day) March 21 in the solar calendar. This is only
> slightly different from the jitter defined by Mockingbird above.
>
> Karl
>
> 10(07(01
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Tom Peters
> Sent: 20 March 2009 00:20
> To: CALNDR-L@...
> Subject: Re: Gregorian calendar jitter and lunar calendar in Wikipedia
> computus
>
> Op 19-mrt-2009, om 16:26 heeft Palmen, KEV (Karl) het volgende
> geschreven:
>
> > Dear Tom and Calendar People
> >
> > I've found a weakness that occurs in EVERY uniform correction
> > system. It
> > is three consecutive common century years with only one correction.
> > The
> > Gregorian System makes at least two corrections in any three
> > consecutive
> > common century years.
> > This causes the minimum number of days in 11 consecutive Metonic
> > cycles
> > (of 235 lunar months equal to 19 lunisolar years) to be one less than
> > for the Gregorian system.
> >
>
> Karl,
> thank you for your investigations. I do not have the time now to
> study this issue as thorough as is necessary. Maybe at some later time.
>
> --
> Tom Peters
>
> --
> Scanned by iCritical.
>

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