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Re: Most pertinent on v11.4 converting question
by Jody Bevan
::
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Harry:
> PS: I am somewhat dark sided right now because I just lost my long
> time
> developer, who decided that he would no longer want to be involved
> with what
> he described as unworkable 4D Server
Certainly the dark side toward 4D v11 is showing, but the biggest
thing is that you know that is the case.
I think that any statements of it will take .... for all systems is
not fair to 4D at all. As usual broad brush statements like this are
not valid for all.
I believe that there are some of our internal applications that could
be converted in a few weeks. Our decision to rewrite our shell into a
format that we have talked about over the last 8 years is what is
taking us so long for our conversions.
We will be converting our flag ship product to version 11 last (after
we have more experience with v11). With that conversion we are going
to do a 'simple' conversion first. We are doing this to get the speed
advantages to our end users as quickly as we can. Our testing shows
that a simple conversion will give massive speed increases to our
users. A side to that method is that it will let us know how much work
we MUST do to get it to work with v11. Our flagship product is larger
with 31,800 methods, 248 tables, (126 meg structure uncompiled).
As a vendor that must provide rock solid product with a product used
around the world we are always behind the curve on converting to the
latest 4D product. Typically we don't get to it until it is a .5
release, or in the past we have even skipped some versions all
together. Part of this is the development cycle we are in. We are
pushed into by customers for certain features, and various regulating
bodies force us into different development cycles. Therefore our
'wish' as developers for the latest release of 4D is trumped.
All vendors get forced into the upgrade because of the OS. Then this
trickles down to the end user, with us as developers caught in
between. I love MacOS, but it is Apple that causes this rush in the
past as has been described on this forum. Up to Vista, old versions of
our product will run from windows 95 to XP. So I have a bit of angst
with Apple, but I understand their perspective as well.
I really don't expect that our initial release with v11 of our
flagship product will be anything close to a rewrite. Even as we make
it multi-lingual and a few other nifty features it will not be a
rewrite.
I have been developing with 4D since 1988. The switch from version 2
to version 3 was the biggest change until 2004 to v11. To take
advantage of the features of these version does take work. As well, it
does take time to learn the new features of the environment. I know
that there are many features in v11 that I have been asking 4D for,
for several years. To deliver it they needed to make a big change. I
appreciate this, and understand there is work on our part.
I know of several of my competitors that had to switch development
environments totally as the environment they used was stopped (i.e.
FoxBase as one example). I'm happy that 4D has provided me with 21
years of staying within the same development environment. This is much
easier than a rewrite by far. I certainly am hoping for another 20
years, but I hope I'm not still working in 20 years.
my 2 cents worth
========================================================
Developers of JonokeMed™, FaxButler™, ImageButler™, WebButler™, J-
Forms™, and J-Jump™
Jody Bevan Jonoke Software Dev. Inc.
On Jun 25, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Harry A. Bernstein M.D. wrote:
**********************************************************************
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Early Bird Pricing Ends August 28th - http://www.4d.com/summit
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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> PS: I am somewhat dark sided right now because I just lost my long
> time
> developer, who decided that he would no longer want to be involved
> with what
> he described as unworkable 4D Server
Certainly the dark side toward 4D v11 is showing, but the biggest
thing is that you know that is the case.
I think that any statements of it will take .... for all systems is
not fair to 4D at all. As usual broad brush statements like this are
not valid for all.
I believe that there are some of our internal applications that could
be converted in a few weeks. Our decision to rewrite our shell into a
format that we have talked about over the last 8 years is what is
taking us so long for our conversions.
We will be converting our flag ship product to version 11 last (after
we have more experience with v11). With that conversion we are going
to do a 'simple' conversion first. We are doing this to get the speed
advantages to our end users as quickly as we can. Our testing shows
that a simple conversion will give massive speed increases to our
users. A side to that method is that it will let us know how much work
we MUST do to get it to work with v11. Our flagship product is larger
with 31,800 methods, 248 tables, (126 meg structure uncompiled).
As a vendor that must provide rock solid product with a product used
around the world we are always behind the curve on converting to the
latest 4D product. Typically we don't get to it until it is a .5
release, or in the past we have even skipped some versions all
together. Part of this is the development cycle we are in. We are
pushed into by customers for certain features, and various regulating
bodies force us into different development cycles. Therefore our
'wish' as developers for the latest release of 4D is trumped.
All vendors get forced into the upgrade because of the OS. Then this
trickles down to the end user, with us as developers caught in
between. I love MacOS, but it is Apple that causes this rush in the
past as has been described on this forum. Up to Vista, old versions of
our product will run from windows 95 to XP. So I have a bit of angst
with Apple, but I understand their perspective as well.
I really don't expect that our initial release with v11 of our
flagship product will be anything close to a rewrite. Even as we make
it multi-lingual and a few other nifty features it will not be a
rewrite.
I have been developing with 4D since 1988. The switch from version 2
to version 3 was the biggest change until 2004 to v11. To take
advantage of the features of these version does take work. As well, it
does take time to learn the new features of the environment. I know
that there are many features in v11 that I have been asking 4D for,
for several years. To deliver it they needed to make a big change. I
appreciate this, and understand there is work on our part.
I know of several of my competitors that had to switch development
environments totally as the environment they used was stopped (i.e.
FoxBase as one example). I'm happy that 4D has provided me with 21
years of staying within the same development environment. This is much
easier than a rewrite by far. I certainly am hoping for another 20
years, but I hope I'm not still working in 20 years.
my 2 cents worth
========================================================
Developers of JonokeMed™, FaxButler™, ImageButler™, WebButler™, J-
Forms™, and J-Jump™
Jody Bevan Jonoke Software Dev. Inc.
On Jun 25, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Harry A. Bernstein M.D. wrote:
**********************************************************************
Register for 4D Summit 2009 Today
Early Bird Pricing Ends August 28th - http://www.4d.com/summit
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ: http://www.4D.com/support/faqnug.html
Archive: http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub: mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************
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