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Re: Nerfed crossbows?
by J. Ali Harlow-2
::
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On 2007-08-14 04:45:42 AM, Silas Dunsmore wrote:
> I have noticed that crossbows are severely underpowered compared to
> Nethack. Is this intentional?
>
> A Slash'EM Gnomish Ranger starts with a +1 crossbow and has the
> natural
> Ranger ability to fire one more missile per turn than other classes,
> yet
> he has no chance of firing two bolts in one turn.
>
> To gain even a 25% chance of firing two in one turn, he must be:
> a Ranger, Expert in crossbow, or
> a Ranger, Skilled in crossbow, and using at least a +2
> crossbow, or
> a Ranger, Basic in crossbow and using at least a +5 crossbow,
> non-Ranger, Expert in crossbow, and using at least a +2
> crossbow, or
> non-Ranger, Skilled in crossbow, and using at least a +5
> crossbow.
>
> This is because crossbows are GUNs in Slash'EM, and their
> rate-of-fire
> is -1, which subtracts 2 (not 1) from the multishot calculation, if
> the
> game is compiled with FIREARMS. No such subtraction is made if
> FIREARMS
> is not used.
>
> The Ranger's flurry technique does not help because crossbows do not
> use
> the P_BOW skill.
>
> Crossbow bolts are already inferior to arrows. This just doesn't
> seem
> right.
>
> If there is agreement on this, I am willing to make a patch.
Just a quick response to this since I'm feeling guilty about the number
of messages from you that I still haven't replied to!
It seems right to me that an expert archer should be able to use a bow
and arrow more effectively than a crossbow (even though this may not be
historically accurate). For an untrained archer the crossbow should
certainly be more effective. It should also be the case that training
with crossbows has less benefit than bows since it involves less skill.
I'd want to check whether there is any justification for the different
effects under FIREARM. It does seem odd to me at first sight.
Cheers,
Ali.
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> I have noticed that crossbows are severely underpowered compared to
> Nethack. Is this intentional?
>
> A Slash'EM Gnomish Ranger starts with a +1 crossbow and has the
> natural
> Ranger ability to fire one more missile per turn than other classes,
> yet
> he has no chance of firing two bolts in one turn.
>
> To gain even a 25% chance of firing two in one turn, he must be:
> a Ranger, Expert in crossbow, or
> a Ranger, Skilled in crossbow, and using at least a +2
> crossbow, or
> a Ranger, Basic in crossbow and using at least a +5 crossbow,
> non-Ranger, Expert in crossbow, and using at least a +2
> crossbow, or
> non-Ranger, Skilled in crossbow, and using at least a +5
> crossbow.
>
> This is because crossbows are GUNs in Slash'EM, and their
> rate-of-fire
> is -1, which subtracts 2 (not 1) from the multishot calculation, if
> the
> game is compiled with FIREARMS. No such subtraction is made if
> FIREARMS
> is not used.
>
> The Ranger's flurry technique does not help because crossbows do not
> use
> the P_BOW skill.
>
> Crossbow bolts are already inferior to arrows. This just doesn't
> seem
> right.
>
> If there is agreement on this, I am willing to make a patch.
Just a quick response to this since I'm feeling guilty about the number
of messages from you that I still haven't replied to!
It seems right to me that an expert archer should be able to use a bow
and arrow more effectively than a crossbow (even though this may not be
historically accurate). For an untrained archer the crossbow should
certainly be more effective. It should also be the case that training
with crossbows has less benefit than bows since it involves less skill.
I'd want to check whether there is any justification for the different
effects under FIREARM. It does seem odd to me at first sight.
Cheers,
Ali.
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