Re: Orginal file

[Nikash V. SINGH]

Hi Mateusz,

The PDF you mentioned contains proposals for the Logo of OpenOffice.org 3.

*forgive my thinly veiled attempt to curb my frustration at this fact*
But since OpenOffice.org decided to do nothing to address their aging logo going into version 3,
none of these proposals was considered or accepted.

It's probably not a good idea to use them in your artwork, being unofficial works, as they are.
I've CC'ed in the Art mailing list who might be able to help you source official artwork.

My sincere apologies.
-Nik


 
From: Mateusz Zasuwik <mzasuwik@...>
To: overkill@...
Sent: Sunday, 27 September, 2009 2:50:44 AM
Subject: Orginal file

Hello

Could you share with me the orginal file this PDF?
http://overkill.hyperphp.com/allprops.pdf

I want to design visiting card for polish OO.o community. A card will be alike to card my friend from Mozilla. ;)
http://diary.braniecki.net/2009/08/19/express-mozilla/


      __________________________________________________________________________________
Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.
Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/

[Bernhard Dippold-2]

Hi Mateusz, Nik, *

thank you, Nik, for including the Art Project in this question.

Nikash V. SINGH schrieb:
> Hi Mateusz,
>
> The PDF you mentioned contains proposals for the Logo of OpenOffice.org 3.
>
> *forgive my thinly veiled attempt to curb my frustration at this fact*
> But since OpenOffice.org decided to do nothing to address their aging logo going into version 3,
> none of these proposals was considered or accepted.

I'm really sorry, that I wasn't able to raise the great work having been
done on logo, icons and splash screens to a level where it could be
considered as basis for an improved visual identity for OpenOffice.org.

We do need a new Art / Visual Design project - in a position that can
work not only on marketing material, but on core graphical elements too.
>
> It's probably not a good idea to use them in your artwork, being unofficial works, as they are.

For "official" OOo business cards the graphical language of the actual
product should be used. This enforces the position of OOo and it's
perception in public.

> I've CC'ed in the Art mailing list who might be able to help you source official artwork.

Please have a look at the official artwork gallery:
http://marketing.openoffice.org/art/official_galleries.html

and the additional gallery for other artwork:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Art/Gallery

>
> My sincere apologies.
> -Nik
>
>
>
> From: Mateusz Zasuwik<mzasuwik@...>
> To: overkill@...
> Sent: Sunday, 27 September, 2009 2:50:44 AM
> Subject: Orginal file
>
> Hello
>
> Could you share with me the orginal file this PDF?
> http://overkill.hyperphp.com/allprops.pdf
>
> I want to design visiting card for polish OO.o community. A card will be alike to card my friend from Mozilla. ;)
> http://diary.braniecki.net/2009/08/19/express-mozilla/

It would be great, if you could share your design not only with the
polish community, but with the entire OOo project.

Please upload it to our wiki once you've finished it.

Our business cards follow the language of OOo2 (or even OOo1), therefore
we really need high quality OOo3 related artwork.

One remark about using the OOo logo:
This logo is trademarked and not licensed under a free license. Usage
requests can be sent to the mailing list logos@...

I sent such a request to the list in order to get approval for your and
other business cards:
http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=logos&msgNo=10587
(Only members of the Marketing Project are able to read the mails)

When I get a reply I'll post it here on art@....

Best regards

Bernhard

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscribe@...
For additional commands, e-mail: art-help@...

[Nikash V. SINGH]

Hi Bernhard, all,
Sorry for the late reply.

Bernhard wrote;

> I'm really sorry, that I wasn't able to raise the great work having been
> done on logo, icons and splash screens to a level where it could be
> considered as basis for an improved visual identity for OpenOffice.org.

Nobody blames you Bernhard =) , especially not for events which occurred while you were away.
I'm just venting at OOo's lack of foresight, especially regarding their brand which a number of Art members on this list have repeatedly criticised for the negative impression it creates for the product, especially the shadow it casts on us as an active project whose contributions don't get used.

> We do need a new Art / Visual Design project - in a position that can
> work not only on marketing material, but on core graphical elements too.

I know this got swept under the rug amidst a flurry of "trademark" technicalities, but I'd just like to know once and for all;
Is there any point on working on an OOo logo, is there any talk of an update being considered anywhere on the horizon? version 4 even?
I'm fast losing faith that OOo is actually OpenSource at all, given that most "official" design work is created by Sun and not by the community.

...

Mateusz + all, I'll dig up that vector of the birds and make it available again in a post soon.
I'll leave it up to you all to discuss whether it can be used (as a design motif, not as a logo) at all, given it isn't "official" OOo.

-Nik

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

[Bernhard Dippold-2]

Hi Nik, all,

Nikash V. SINGH schrieb:
> Hi Bernhard, all, Sorry for the late reply.

Same for me - too much to do in too less time...
>
> Bernhard wrote;
 >> [...]

>> We do need a new Art / Visual Design project - in a position that
>> can work not only on marketing material, but on core graphical
>> elements too.
>
> I know this got swept under the rug amidst a flurry of "trademark"
> technicalities, but I'd just like to know once and for all; Is there
> any point on working on an OOo logo, is there any talk of an update
> being considered anywhere on the horizon? version 4 even? I'm fast
> losing faith that OOo is actually OpenSource at all, given that most
> "official" design work is created by Sun and not by the community.

I know your concerns - shared by many of the (former?) active members of
this project.

Even if I'm in contact with some of the Sun people, I can't give you a
positive or negative reply. If some people in the upper areas there
decide to do something, it's quite hard to show them a better way...

But there are signs of changes:
- The new ODF related iconset [1] is presented to us explicitly asking
us for comments and improvement of the design.
- Implementation of these icons has been postponed because their
presentation will be able to improved by the community.

I see a need for a project that covers all the topics related to visual
impression of OpenOffice.org - whether this would be at the desktop, on
the web, in documentation or marketing.

Perhaps "Art Project" is too small as name - "Visual recognition" or
"Branding Art" comes to my mind...

Such a project will have to be filled with life by Sun people as well as
others.

These thoughts are not mature by now - but in such a broader project any
changes to the core design could be worked on by non-Sun members too.

Changes to the logo are more difficult, as the present one is
trademarked as image mark. But if discussion on trademark policy and
logo license would end up in introducing a second (community) logo under
an open source license, this logo will probably be created by us!

You see, I can't give you any "one and ever" reply - but perhaps there
is more than just a silver stripe at the horizon...

Best regards

Bernhard

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscribe@...
For additional commands, e-mail: art-help@...

[Ivan M]

Hi Bernhard, Nik, all,

This is a very important discussion, and now that I have some spare
time to write a comprehensive reply, I would like to share some
thoughts.

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Bernhard Dippold
<bernhard@...> wrote:
[...]

>>> We do need a new Art / Visual Design project - in a position that
>>> can work not only on marketing material, but on core graphical
>>> elements too.
>>
>> I know this got swept under the rug amidst a flurry of "trademark"
>> technicalities, but I'd just like to know once and for all; Is there
>> any point on working on an OOo logo, is there any talk of an update
>> being considered anywhere on the horizon? version 4 even? I'm fast
>> losing faith that OOo is actually OpenSource at all, given that most
>> "official" design work is created by Sun and not by the community.
>
> I know your concerns - shared by many of the (former?) active members of
> this project.

Berhnard, if it weren't for you, the art project would probably be
experiencing deafening silence right now. Many of our very talented
and active members have disappeared, and I suspect a lack of impact
(by the Art project on OOo's artwork) would be the major cause of
this. Personally, I was inspired to join the Art project when I saw
your presentation at 2006 OOo Convention [1]. The vision contained in
that presentation is yet to be realized, but I stick around because I
am optimistic that it can be done.

[1] http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2006/presentations/tuesday_c3.odp

> Even if I'm in contact with some of the Sun people, I can't give you a
> positive or negative reply. If some people in the upper areas there decide
> to do something, it's quite hard to show them a better way...
>
> But there are signs of changes:
> - The new ODF related iconset [1] is presented to us explicitly asking us
> for comments and improvement of the design.
> - Implementation of these icons has been postponed because their
> presentation will be able to improved by the community.
>
> I see a need for a project that covers all the topics related to visual
> impression of OpenOffice.org - whether this would be at the desktop, on the
> web, in documentation or marketing.

Yes! Christoph Noack of the UX project and I discussed something
similar during the website refresh late last year (please see the
appendix at the bottom of this email for the relevant extract).
Unfortunately, due to time constraints we could not actively pursue
this vision, but it is similar to what is being discussed in this
thread.

Now might be the time to try to take action - while there is plenty of
time to establish the project and its influence in OOo 4. The
community needs to take a more active role to create a consistent,
powerful and effective visual identity for OOo. The latest issue with
the ODF mimetype icons demonstrates that the art project is either not
well known to major decision makers, or it is not considered
relevant/useful. It is partially up to us to make sure that these
sorts of things do not happen again in the future.

> Perhaps "Art Project" is too small as name - "Visual recognition" or
> "Branding Art" comes to my mind...

Visual Design already exists [2], but Stella is the only one I can see
taking part in it. A lot of important branding and artwork activity
happens on those pages, but we aren't really made aware of their
existence or involved in what goes on. Perhaps this is because a lot
of OOo's artwork is derived from StarOffice and it is just assumed
that OOo will have the same artwork as StarOffice (with the exception
of, say, the splash screen and website). This is an assumption that we
might need to challenge.

[2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Visual_Design_Overview

> Such a project will have to be filled with life by Sun people as well as
> others.

Absolutely, and also from different complementary projects that play a
part in forming OOo's visual identity (UX, Marketing and Website are
the most obvious examples IMO).

> These thoughts are not mature by now - but in such a broader project any
> changes to the core design could be worked on by non-Sun members too.

By having a project where non-Sun community members can have a real
impact on OOo's identity, we could attract more members and interest
in the project. And with nicer, more co-ordinated artwork, we could
attract more people to OOo. We all want to see OOo succeed, and I
think this is an obvious way of helping to achieve that.

> Changes to the logo are more difficult, as the present one is trademarked as
> image mark. But if discussion on trademark policy and logo license would end
> up in introducing a second (community) logo under an open source license,
> this logo will probably be created by us!
>
> You see, I can't give you any "one and ever" reply - but perhaps there is
> more than just a silver stripe at the horizon...

I hope so :)

Regards,
Ivan.

------ Appendix ------

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Ivan M <i2initiatives@...> wrote:

>> [... Christoph Noack wrote:]
>> What do you think, should we develop a kind of common vision when it
>> comes to the application itself and its "representation" in the web? I
>> don't know how this could look like - creating a short vision statement,
>> bringing the Personas finally to life, think about the intended
>> graphical message, ...? Any other ideas?
>
> Being an open source project, it is easy to become inconsistent -
> different projects handle different tasks, particularly in terms of
> graphics: the person that designs the splash screen is different from
> the person who designs the icons, and that person is different from
> the person that designed the website; that's great, and it's great
> that OpenOffice.org means different things to different people, but
> there are no guidelines to keep things reasonably consistent, which is
> what constitutes a good user experience and strengthens the
> brand/visual identity. Also, when it comes time to design something
> new (or redesign something old), the question is: what do we base the
> graphics on? The splash screen? The website? The icons? Or start with
> something completely different and add another option to this list the
> next time someone asks this question?
>
> Additionally, as I mentioned in a previous email, some community
> products like the website can have multiple contributors, each with
> their own style (as you pointed out with the use of rounded corners on
> some elements and not on others). So personally, I think a common
> vision is very important... if by common vision you mean a set of
> guidelines that help us keep things consistent in terms of design.

You can read the full discussion starting from:
http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=2288

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: art-unsubscribe@...
For additional commands, e-mail: art-help@...