Re: Re: Re: Re: [Cs-dev] Sugar on a Stick - and OLPCsound

> There is always the option of building csound n times for n python
> versions. A pain in the ass, I agree, but is the least work I think.
>
> On 03/07/2009, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@...> wrote:
>> As I have mentioned several times on this list, making the Csound API
>> independent of the Python version is not practical.
>>
>> We use SWIG to generate the Python wrapper, because it saves a simply
>> enormous amount of work to do so. Using SWIG also makes it easy to
>> generate two of the other wrappers: the Lua API and the Java API (the
>> Lisp API is done with cffi, which is different).
>>
>> SWIG, however, makes the Python wrapper depend on the specific version
>> of Python.
>>
>> The alternatives to using SWIG are basically boost::python, ctypes,
>> and hand-coding the wrappers in C. My limited experience with
>> boost::python is that it is not much less work than hand-coding, and
>> harder to maintain. I have a reasonable amount of experience with both
>> ctypes, and hand-coding Python wrappers in C. If I had to choose one
>> of these three, it would be ctypes because it is completely done in
>> the actual Python code and seems to work well.
>>
>> I know from experience that hand-coding C wrappers and using ctypes
>> involves about the same amount of work to get the same sort of
>> results.
>>
>> The code that SWIG generates is, naturally, very comparable to what a
>> good programmer would do by hand. If you want to see how much work
>> that would be, look at the sizes of the files generated by SWIG. They
>> are the largest source code files in the entire system, by a large
>> margin (they are not in CVS, you have to run SWIG to get them).
>>
>> There are two modules that get Python wrappers in Csound: csnd and
>> CsoundAC. I estimate that hand-coding wrappers even for csnd would
>> take a man-month at least. CsoundAC is several times as complex as
>> csnd.
>>
>> I am simply not willing to do that amount of work when what we are
>> currently doing works very well indeed except for this version
>> independence thing, which I admit is an annoyance.
>>
>> If anyone has a better idea, some other wrapper system that is
>> automatic but version-independent, I'd be glad to hear it.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Mike
>>
>> On 7/2/09, Art Hunkins <abhunkin@...> wrote:
>> > 5.08 works with python2.5 but not with python2.6
>> >
>> > With SoaS, I imported 2.5 to sit alongside 2.6; 5.08 still didn't work
>> > =
>> > (though I didn't really expect it to).
>> >
>> > I'm still waiting for 5.10 to be available to Soas; when it is, I'll =
>> > report whether it works with 2.6 (as I *do* expect).
>> >
>> > If it does, I'm going to make a strong plea that future versions of =
>> > Csound (I gather, the API) be made independent of python version.
>> >
>> > With Sugar, we'll have little or no control over what version of python
>> > =
>> > is installed at any given time. If we want to write Csound Activities =
>> > using python (as is usual), Csound will need to adapt to whatever
>> > python =
>> > is present.
>> >
>> > Either that, or Sugar and Csound will continue to have compatibility =
>> > issues (which will strictly limit its viability).
>> >
>> > Art Hunkins
>> >   ----- Original Message -----=20
>> >   From: victor=20
>> >   To: Art Hunkins ; Developer discussions=20
>> >   Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:36 PM
>> >   Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Sugar on a Stick - and OLPCsound
>> >
>> >
>> >   Because the 5.10 rpm has a python2.6 dependency. But that might
>> >   be the case for 5.08 too (I am not sure).
>> >     ----- Original Message -----=20
>> >     From: Art Hunkins=20
>> >     To: Developer discussions=20
>> >     Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:22 AM
>> >     Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Sugar on a Stick - and OLPCsound
>> >
>> >
>> >     I just noticed that the current OLPC build includes Python 2.5, =
>> > whereas SoaS includes Python 2.6
>> >
>> >     Csound 5.08.91 is currently in both. Wouldn't this explain why =
>> > 5.08.91 doesn't work on SoaS? And why 5.10 should?
>> >
>> >     Art Hunkins
>> >       ----- Original Message -----=20
>> >       From: Victor.Lazzarini@...=20
>> >       To: Developer discussions=20
>> >       Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:38 PM
>> >       Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Sugar on a Stick - and OLPCsound
>> >
>> >
>> >       The message is strange, but it does not say there is a Python
>> >       version mismatch. However, having said that, the 5.08.91
>> >       rpm was built with 2.5 (unless what you have there is another
>> >       build that somehow uses 2.6).=20
>> >
>> >       What the message says is that the library module Python
>> >       tried to load does not have one of the API functions. The
>> >       reason for this I don't know.
>> >
>> >       Victor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Send bugs reports to this list.
>> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body
>> > "unsubscribe
>> > csound"
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Gogins
>> Irreducible Productions
>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Saludos,
> Felipe Sateler
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body "unsubscribe
> csound"