Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [Cs-dev] Sugar on a Stick - and OLPCsound

> Unfortunately, this still leaves the Sugar on a Stick folks (as well as
> OLPC) with the challenge of making sure that the Python version they include
> and *update/upgrade* always corresponds to the appropriate Csound version.
>
> (Right now I'm having a difficult time getting Python2.6 and Csound5.10
> working together in SoaS. I'm about to try a complete reinstall.)
>
> Art Hunkins
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Felipe Sateler" <fsateler@...>
> To: <csound@...>
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:22 PM
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: [Cs-dev] Sugar on a Stick - and OLPCsound
>
>
>> There is always the option of building csound n times for n python
>> versions. A pain in the ass, I agree, but is the least work I think.
>>
>> On 03/07/2009, Michael Gogins <michael.gogins@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> As I have mentioned several times on this list, making the Csound API
>>> independent of the Python version is not practical.
>>>
>>> We use SWIG to generate the Python wrapper, because it saves a simply
>>> enormous amount of work to do so. Using SWIG also makes it easy to
>>> generate two of the other wrappers: the Lua API and the Java API (the
>>> Lisp API is done with cffi, which is different).
>>>
>>> SWIG, however, makes the Python wrapper depend on the specific version
>>> of Python.
>>>
>>> The alternatives to using SWIG are basically boost::python, ctypes,
>>> and hand-coding the wrappers in C. My limited experience with
>>> boost::python is that it is not much less work than hand-coding, and
>>> harder to maintain. I have a reasonable amount of experience with both
>>> ctypes, and hand-coding Python wrappers in C. If I had to choose one
>>> of these three, it would be ctypes because it is completely done in
>>> the actual Python code and seems to work well.
>>>
>>> I know from experience that hand-coding C wrappers and using ctypes
>>> involves about the same amount of work to get the same sort of
>>> results.
>>>
>>> The code that SWIG generates is, naturally, very comparable to what a
>>> good programmer would do by hand. If you want to see how much work
>>> that would be, look at the sizes of the files generated by SWIG. They
>>> are the largest source code files in the entire system, by a large
>>> margin (they are not in CVS, you have to run SWIG to get them).
>>>
>>> There are two modules that get Python wrappers in Csound: csnd and
>>> CsoundAC. I estimate that hand-coding wrappers even for csnd would
>>> take a man-month at least. CsoundAC is several times as complex as
>>> csnd.
>>>
>>> I am simply not willing to do that amount of work when what we are
>>> currently doing works very well indeed except for this version
>>> independence thing, which I admit is an annoyance.
>>>
>>> If anyone has a better idea, some other wrapper system that is
>>> automatic but version-independent, I'd be glad to hear it.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On 7/2/09, Art Hunkins <abhunkin@...> wrote:
>>> > 5.08 works with python2.5 but not with python2.6
>>> >
>>> > With SoaS, I imported 2.5 to sit alongside 2.6; 5.08 still didn't work
>>> > > =
>>> > (though I didn't really expect it to).
>>> >
>>> > I'm still waiting for 5.10 to be available to Soas; when it is, I'll =
>>> > report whether it works with 2.6 (as I *do* expect).
>>> >
>>> > If it does, I'm going to make a strong plea that future versions of =
>>> > Csound (I gather, the API) be made independent of python version.
>>> >
>>> > With Sugar, we'll have little or no control over what version of python
>>> > > =
>>> > is installed at any given time. If we want to write Csound Activities =
>>> > using python (as is usual), Csound will need to adapt to whatever >
>>> > python =
>>> > is present.
>>> >
>>> > Either that, or Sugar and Csound will continue to have compatibility =
>>> > issues (which will strictly limit its viability).
>>> >
>>> > Art Hunkins
>>> >   ----- Original Message -----=20
>>> >   From: victor=20
>>> >   To: Art Hunkins ; Developer discussions=20
>>> >   Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:36 PM
>>> >   Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Sugar on a Stick - and OLPCsound
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >   Because the 5.10 rpm has a python2.6 dependency. But that might
>>> >   be the case for 5.08 too (I am not sure).
>>> >     ----- Original Message -----=20
>>> >     From: Art Hunkins=20
>>> >     To: Developer discussions=20
>>> >     Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:22 AM
>>> >     Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Sugar on a Stick - and OLPCsound
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >     I just noticed that the current OLPC build includes Python 2.5, =
>>> > whereas SoaS includes Python 2.6
>>> >
>>> >     Csound 5.08.91 is currently in both. Wouldn't this explain why =
>>> > 5.08.91 doesn't work on SoaS? And why 5.10 should?
>>> >
>>> >     Art Hunkins
>>> >       ----- Original Message -----=20
>>> >       From: Victor.Lazzarini@...=20
>>> >       To: Developer discussions=20
>>> >       Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:38 PM
>>> >       Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] Sugar on a Stick - and OLPCsound
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >       The message is strange, but it does not say there is a Python
>>> >       version mismatch. However, having said that, the 5.08.91
>>> >       rpm was built with 2.5 (unless what you have there is another
>>> >       build that somehow uses 2.6).=20
>>> >
>>> >       What the message says is that the library module Python
>>> >       tried to load does not have one of the API functions. The
>>> >       reason for this I don't know.
>>> >
>>> >       Victor
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body >
>>> > "unsubscribe
>>> > csound"
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Gogins
>>> Irreducible Productions
>>> http://www.michael-gogins.com
>>> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Saludos,
>> Felipe Sateler
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>
>
>
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>