Re: Re : dvda-author 09.03: questions and issues

[Udo-12]

Hello Fabrice,

--- On Sun, 5/10/09, fabrni@... <fabrni@...> wrote:

> Some issues and questions:
>
>
>
> # dvda-author
>
> Segmentation fault
>
> Why?
>
>
> > Not an issue, empty argument is no longer supported,
> see dvda-author --help or (website/console) man page.

I do think that any segmentation fault leaves a bad impression.
Starting an app without arguments is on of the few defaults a user *will* try.

> (cut)
> Current time is: 10-18-02-39
> (cut)
>
>
>
> Why is the time `wrong`?
>
> > It is not wrong, yet the presentation will be
> improved, arguably it is not the best. Day, hour, minute,
> second. I'll add month and colons.

Ok, thanks.

> (cut)
>
> Copyrigh Dave Chapman 2005-Fabrice Nicol 2007,2008   <fabnicol@...>-Lee
>
>
> and Tim Feldkamp 2008
>
> (cut)
>
>
>
> The (C) message does not cope with 80 column screen? GPL
> text does not wrap at  all.
> > No longer a nagging issue since most people have wide
> screens...yet it's going to be corrected.

I think it needs to look reasonabley 'pretty' on anthing from 80 to 132 or so columns.


> Why so many empty lines? Please keep it
> more terse.
>
> > I personally disagree on this. Empty lines are pretty
> much a matter of taste, I find it useful to get a lot of
> them.

Sorry, but they waste screen esate. Even on this widescreen lcd.
Use whitespace sparingly to group relevant lines of logging etc together. Not as the main ingredient, please.

> And you always have the option to hush up the whole output
> with -q.

I do want some output, it just needs to scroll not so much as the white lines cause.

> Could please have the spec file to build
> our own rpm?
>
> > It's been included in the tarball for some time
> now! :-)

Hmm. I overlooked that? Will check.


> What is the currently best tool (for
> Linux...) to cut WAVs etc into tracks to be
>
> used for DVD-A?
>
>
> > Audacity

A specific app like wavbreaker? But then it should 'cut' at DVD-A modulo's? Or do CD sectors also work for DVD-A?

> PS:
>
>
> A tarball will be uploaded before very soon (index 09.03-1)
> to the sourceforge file system with your requested
> corrections (except for white lines...) and a corrected
> building system, following Kai-Uwe's insightful
> remarks.

OK, cool!

> (white line)

Argh!!

> (Let me hereby thank him for his useful contrib).
>
> (white line :-) )

The 2nd white line is OK since it separates the authors from the actual program output or whatever.

> The sox-linking bug, in particular, should be
> corrected. Normally sox libs should be automatically
> detected on *nix. Otherwise, use the following configure
> line:
>
> ./configure --with-sox=(full path to sox lib)
>
> Please tell me if this works OK with you.

Im am on x86_64, maybe configure assumes /usr/lib instead of /usr/lib64 here?

Kind regards,
Udo

PS: The nad is a T 524, still has the issues. I am considering the T535 of which NAD says it is gapless.


     

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[Udo-12]

Hello,

--- On Sun, 5/10/09, fabrni@... <fabrni@...> wrote:

>> What is the currently best tool (for
>> Linux...) to cut WAVs etc into tracks to be
>> used for DVD-A?
>
> Audacity

Well , OK, but to what time/frame setting do I set Audacity for DVD-A? (used with Snap To)
Plain CDDA will work? (for DVD-A, depending on samplerate and bitdepth, I remember a multiple of 4 samples?)

Any tips?

Udo


     

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[Udo-12]

Hello,

--- On Sun, 5/17/09, udo <udovdh@...> wrote:

> >> What is the currently best tool (for
> >> Linux...) to cut WAVs etc into tracks to be
> >> used for DVD-A?
> >
> > Audacity
>
> Well , OK, but to what time/frame setting do I set Audacity
> for DVD-A? (used with Snap To)
> Plain CDDA will work? (for DVD-A, depending on samplerate
> and bitdepth, I remember a multiple of 4 samples?)

I found this article: http://osdir.com/ml/audio.dvd.devel/2005-04/msg00017.html
which suggests an even number of samples. Is that always true?
If so: how do I enforce that when splitting tracks with Audacity?

Udo


     

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[nnguru]

Udo, 

To support the interleaving in dvd-audio, your wave files should be a multiple of the following (in bytes):

#ch  16 bits  24 bits

-----------------------------

1      2           6

2      4          12

3     12          18

4      16         24

5      20         30

6     24          36

Lee

On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 4:57 AM, udo <udovdh@...> wrote:

Hello,

--- On Sun, 5/17/09, udo <udovdh@...> wrote:
> >> What is the currently best tool (for
> >> Linux...) to cut WAVs etc into tracks to be
> >> used for DVD-A?
> >
> > Audacity
>
> Well , OK, but to what time/frame setting do I set Audacity
> for DVD-A? (used with Snap To)
> Plain CDDA will work? (for DVD-A, depending on samplerate
> and bitdepth, I remember a multiple of 4 samples?)

I found this article: http://osdir.com/ml/audio.dvd.devel/2005-04/msg00017.html
which suggests an even number of samples. Is that always true?
If so: how do I enforce that when splitting tracks with Audacity?

Udo




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[Udo-12]

Lee,

--- On Sun, 5/17/09, Lee Feldkamp <lfeldkam@...> wrote:
 To support the interleaving in dvd-audio, your
> wave files should be a multiple of the following (in
> bytes):

Thanks.
Two channels. So 4 or 12 bytes.
How to enforce in Audacity?

Using cdda-frames and 16-bit audio I got no padding warnings from dvda-author. So that was OK?
How to deal with the 12 bytes for 24-bit?

Udo


     

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[fabrni]

You're quite right on all this, Udo, and the aim of the fixwav utility was to optionally fix these issues without bloating 'core' dvda-author code.

The tool itself did not address all issues but at least header impairment, sample count evenness and basic checks on sample counts -- however, not the conditions on interleaving.

There are basic checks in core dvda-author code, one on evenness (Dave code) and one added by Lee on sample count (in audio.c) since 08.12. BTW I just noticed that this added snippet breaks my --no-padding global option.
I also realized, a bit late, that the fixwav tool, which was first OK as an autonomous app, does not work after integration due to a couple of bugs that crept in at the last minute, which I'll correct this week. I'll take advantage of it to fix the --no-padding global option and add an 'interleaving constraint' check on sample count into fixwav.

Below is how you could use fixwav for your own tests (after the upcoming bug corrections)
Fab


*************************
fixwav how to for tests
*************************

If you build yourself (with a hex editor) a wav file containing an illegal odd number of samples (odd.wav), taking off  samples from a correct file and leaving the header as is, you can test what turns out by comparing:

(1) dvda-author -g ~/input/odd.wav -o output  [hard-coded dvda-author padding]

and

(2) dvda-author20-g ~/input/odd.wav -o ~/output --fixwav=padding,output=fixwav  [fixwav padding]

If you are motivated to do comps, an advanced option has been added to dvda-author that deactivates "Dave code" padding:  --no-padding
Without the --no-padding option for (1) you'll get a warning like:

WARN: Padding track with ...

So you come up with a variety of combinations for padding, the most "controlled" one being (2) --no-padding

On problematic hardware like yours it might even be worth testing "illegal" combinations like:

(3) dvda-author -g ~/input/odd.wav -o ~/output --fixwav=prune,output=sf  [fixwav pruning, the reverse of padding]  [--no-padding]

"prune" cuts off all ending 0s at end of wav file, a frequent situation which I suspect to be the cause of many clicks. --no-padding is a riskier bet as it enforces illegal AOB authoring.

2) As Dave mentioned, usually digital procesisng software like audacity do silent padding (and that's why I added the --fixwav=prune option) to even sample count; this is a WAV standard constraint, unrelated to DVD-A

3) This is an important empirical issue, as most tapers who do live recording experience occasional wav header impairment and/or wav file file 'brutally' cut at odd sample count (eg battery failure etc.)
    The original question by Eric Dahlgren was:

"i just went to try out the new alpha with some 24/96 wav's, and
dvda-author padded some of the files with 1 sample. is this sup posed to
happen? since i'll be burning live music, i don't want to hear any pops
or clicks between songs because of padding. i also want to avoid
demuxing AOB's and ending up with wav files that aren't the same as the
original."

Actually an obnoxious number of 0s may be added accidentally by the recording hardware to live recordings. Here the --fixwav=prune comes in handy to rub them off, and this is not an easy thing to do with audacity.





-----E-mail d'origine-----
De : udo <udovdh@...>
A : Lee Feldkamp <lfeldkam@...>
Cc : fabrni@...; dvd-audio-devel@...
Envoyé le : Lundi, 18 Mai 2009 5:59
Sujet : Re: [Dvd-audio-devel] Re : dvda-author 09.03: questions and issues

Lee,

--- On Sun, 5/17/09, Lee Feldkamp <lfeldkam@...> wrote:
 To support the interleaving in dvd-audio, your
> wave files should be a multiple of the following (in
> bytes):

Thanks.
Two channels. So 420or 12 bytes.
How to enforce in Audacity?

Using cdda-frames and 16-bit audio I got no padding warnings from dvda-author.
So that was OK?
How to deal with the 12 bytes for 24-bit?

Udo


=2
0

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[Udo-12]

Fabrice,

Thanks, but how do I approach the 24-bit stereo situation if we assume that CDDA frames are OK for 16-bit audio destined for DVD-A.
I record and edit and don't know whether my tracks have even or odd numbers of samples. (or can I enforce this in Audacity)
Also we can assume that the tracks are one continuous recording.
So how do I use dvd-author correctly to get the best results?
I do not want 0-samples inserted. Maybe one sample dropped, or better: one borrowed from the next track?

How can I do this?

Udo

--- On Mon, 5/18/09, fabrni@... <fabrni@...> wrote:

> From: fabrni@... <fabrni@...>
> Subject: [Dvd-audio-devel] padding issues
> To: dvd-audio-devel@...
> Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 3:53 AM
>
>
>
>
> You're
> quite right on all this, Udo, and the aim of the fixwav
> utility was to optionally fix these issues without bloating
> 'core' dvda-author code.
>
>
>
> The tool itself did not address all issues but at least
> header impairment, sample count evenness and basic checks on
> sample counts -- however, not the conditions on
> interleaving.
>
>
>
> There are basic checks in core dvda-author code, one on
> evenness (Dave code) and one added by Lee on sample count
> (in audio.c) since 08.12. BTW I just noticed that this added
> snippet breaks my --no-padding global option.
>
> I also realized, a bit late, that the fixwav tool, which
> was first OK as an autonomous app, does not work after
> integration due to a couple of bugs that crept in at the
> last minute, which I'll correct this week. I'll take
> advantage of it to fix the --no-padding global option
> and add an 'interleaving constraint' check on sample
> count into fixwav.
>
>
>
> Below is how you could use fixwav for your own tests (after
> the upcoming bug corrections)
>
> Fab
>
>
>
>
>
> *************************
>
> fixwav how to for tests
>
> *************************
>
>
>
> If you build yourself (with a hex editor) a wav file
> containing an illegal odd number of samples (odd.wav),
> taking off  samples from a correct file and leaving the
> header as is, you can test what turns out by comparing:
>
>
>
> (1) dvda-author -g ~/input/odd.wav -o output 
> [hard-coded dvda-author padding]
>
>
>
> and
>
>
>
> (2) dvda-author20-g ~/input/odd.wav -o ~/output
> --fixwav=padding,output=fixwav  [fixwav padding]
>
>
>
> If you are motivated to do comps, an advanced option has
> been added to dvda-author that deactivates "Dave
> code" padding:  --no-padding
>
> Without the --no-padding option for (1) you'll get a
> warning like:
>
>
>
> WARN: Padding track with ...
>
>
>
> So you come up with a variety of combinations for padding,
> the most "controlled" one being (2) --no-padding
>
>
>
> On problematic hardware like yours it might even be worth
> testing "illegal" combinations like:
>
>
>
> (3) dvda-author
> -g ~/input/odd.wav -o ~/output
> --fixwav=prune,output=sf  [fixwav pruning, the reverse
> of padding]  [--no-padding]
>
>
>
> "prune" cuts off all ending 0s at end of wav
> file, a frequent situation which I suspect to be the cause
> of many clicks. --no-padding is a riskier bet as it enforces
> illegal AOB authoring.
>
>
>
> 2) As Dave mentioned, usually digital procesisng software
> like audacity do silent padding (and that's why I added
> the --fixwav=prune option) to even sample count; this is a
> WAV standard constraint, unrelated to DVD-A
>
>
>
> 3) This is an important empirical issue, as most tapers who
> do live recording experience occasional wav header
> impairment and/or wav file file 'brutally' cut at
> odd sample count (eg battery failure etc.)
>
>     The original question by Eric Dahlgren
> was:
>
>
>
> "i just went to try out the new alpha with some
> 24/96
> wav's, and
>
> dvda-author padded some of the files with 1 sample. is this
> sup posed to
>
> happen? since i'll be burning live music, i don't
> want to hear any pops
>
> or clicks between songs because of padding. i also want to
> avoid
>
> demuxing AOB's and ending up with wav files that
> aren't the same as the
>
> original."
>
>
>
> Actually an obnoxious number of 0s may be added
> accidentally by the recording hardware to live recordings.
> Here the --fixwav=prune comes in handy to rub them off, and
> this is not an easy thing to do with audacity.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----E-mail d'origine-----
>
> De : udo <udovdh@...>
>
> A : Lee Feldkamp <lfeldkam@...>
>
> Cc : fabrni@...; dvd-audio-devel@...
>
> Envoyé le : Lundi, 18 Mai 2009 5:59
>
> Sujet : Re: [Dvd-audio-devel] Re : dvda-author 09.03:
> questions and issues
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lee,
>
> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Lee Feldkamp <lfeldkam@...>
> wrote:
>  To support the interleaving in dvd-audio, your
> > wave files should be a multiple of the following (in
> > bytes):
>
> Thanks.
> Two channels. So 420or 12 bytes.
> How to enforce in Audacity?
>
> Using cdda-frames and 16-bit audio I got no padding
> warnings from dvda-author.
> So that was OK?
> How to deal with the 12 bytes for 24-bit?
>
> Udo
>
>
> =2
> 0
>
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>
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[fabrni]

With new 09.05 code you can use --lossy-rounding to prune samples counts down to the nearest (even) interleaving-compliant sample unit count.
You can alternatively use --pad-cont to pad with the latest audio sound value instead of 0s.
Or you can use --no-padding to just not pad at all.
Remember however that the last LPCM frame in a title is padded to the end with 0xFFs, which is the standard, yet might be a (hardware-pathological) cause of playback gapping.
Currently there is no switch to deactivate LPCM frame padding, as this would run downright against the standard.
Fab

> I do not want 0-samples inserted. Maybe one sample dropped, or better: one 

> borrowed from the next track?

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[Udo-12]

Fabrice,

--- On Tue, 6/2/09, fabrni@... <fabrni@...> wrote:
> With new 09.05 code you can use --lossy-rounding to prune
> samples counts down to the nearest  (even) interleaving-compliant sample > unit count.

I.e.: throw away bytes to get to the 'right' number.

> You can alternatively use --pad-cont to pad with the latest
> audio sound value instead of 0s.

I.e.: copy previous sample to get to the 'right' number.

> Or you can use --no-padding to just not pad at all.

What happens on authoring of the dvd-a disc? Borrowing of samples?
What happens here when the player reads and processes the data?

> Remember however that the last LPCM frame in a title is

Title == group? Title == track?

> > I do not want 0-samples inserted. Maybe one sample
> dropped, or better: one
>
> > borrowed from the next track?


Udo


     

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