« Return to Thread: Should we officially kill the 0.22 ?
Re: Should we officially kill the 0.22 ?
by Daniel Gollub-2
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On Wednesday 25 March 2009 02:30:20 pm Michael Bell wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> Daniel Gollub wrote:
> > I don't agree here - there are many lucky people which managed to get
> > 0.22 working. Updating to some 0.3x might break things again.
> >
> > They should downgrade to 0.22 for the time being. Upgrading to 0.40 will
> > be also kind of supported by configuration update helpers (e.g.
> > OSyncUpdater). I don't plan to support 0.36 update to 0.4x or so.
>
> Actually I think that 0.22 is in EOS state (End-Of-Support). This is
> what Juha and Bricks mean. I agree on this. EOS does not mean EOL. If
> there is a distro which want to fix it then they can do it in our or in
> their VCS. The simple question today is, if you want to focus on 0.40
> development who supports 0.22? We need real commitments here.
Right - who supports OpenSync 0.22? Who develops OpenSync trunk?
>
> Additionally 0.22 worked in the past because the old mobile software
> tolerates a lot of problems. The new (Nokia) devices are much more
> strict in terms of the SyncML specification.
Those old mobiles still work with 0.22 today - forcing them to upgrade to 0.3x
will break things for them for sure.
>
> > We're a completely understaffed. I don't want to waste time discussing
> > this which i could use making 0.40 ready. So please respect my ignorant
> > decision for now and bear with me some more weeks to get 0.40 out.
> > Thanks!
>
> Stop. This is an unacceptable statement. Nobody has the right to stop a
> discussion by its authority. If somebody has no time to discuss then
> this one is not interested in the discussions background which means the
> opinion does not matter. So the important point is, if you have no time
> for discussing it because of your work on 0.40, then the 0.22 support is
> not your thing which means the others can discuss and decide the issue
> without you.
Ok - then i revoke this "decision" thing - at least in my personal opinion
things worked out quite well the last year - expect that 0.40 is not released
yet.
>
> Such a statement like the above is dictator style and can only cause
> frustration and aggressions. No single developer has the right to make
> decisions on its own in case of a "conflict" and denying an open
> discussion (especially if there are different opinions by other
> developers or supporters in this case).
>
> Again aborting a discussion is against the rules of open development. We
> have definitely no ruling authority. This is a question of netiquette.
>
> So back to the discussion is the only acceptable way. All developers and
> users wait for a stable release/API. You are not the only one ;)
Right - all wait for a stable release/API - but how many really actively
contribute to OpenSync API development?
Quite frankly, in my opinion only those how really heavily contribute to
OpenSync with time to this project should "judge"/decided what we want to see
as "supported" and what not.
What benefit do you see if we announce in the wild that we don't support 0.22
and we don't support 0.3x? I guess this will just motivate people fork
OpenSync or start a new project ...
And letting distros package up 0.3x isn't a good idea either.
>
> > 0.22 is great - since there a lot of people out which managed somehow to
> > get things working. Usually those people which have working setup without
> > lot of pain don't make big noise about something working - it's only the
> > "few" which have troubles ;)
>
> Simply all new Nokia S40 devices does not work. The most S60 devices
> should not work too. So a "few" is really relative ;)
I don't agree here - there are many people using not the SyncML plugin at all.
Usually people having a working 0.22 don't communicate actively with us -
since they don't have problems. I know really a lot people using 0.22 on their
daily basis - i'm not kidding here - declaring EOS just brings more discussion
and so on...
I agree that their is not much support at all in 0.22 - and my priority is on
0.40. But i prefer to keep current setups with "old" mobiles working instead
of breaking those setups in favor of "hardware enablement".
So please - let me know if their is any benefit declaring 0.22 for dead?
I see mostly disadvantages.
And yes - i did some "support" for 0.22. Few month ago i helped Michael Banck
with some Debian Bugreport with 0.22 and kdepim-sync. There was no code fix
but a valid workaround. But again - this is not a high priority thing - i
don't spent hours on that - and to be honest currently i'm seeing more
recently reported 0.3x bugreports then 0.22.
And I guess Distros do bugfixing of 0.22 anyway on their own - they can't
fully rely on upstream 24x7.
Yes, i want to see fedora downgrading to 0.22 - since i can't guarantee when
0.40 is ready. So please let them downgrade.
Best Regards,
Daniel
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> Hi Daniel,
>
> Daniel Gollub wrote:
> > I don't agree here - there are many lucky people which managed to get
> > 0.22 working. Updating to some 0.3x might break things again.
> >
> > They should downgrade to 0.22 for the time being. Upgrading to 0.40 will
> > be also kind of supported by configuration update helpers (e.g.
> > OSyncUpdater). I don't plan to support 0.36 update to 0.4x or so.
>
> Actually I think that 0.22 is in EOS state (End-Of-Support). This is
> what Juha and Bricks mean. I agree on this. EOS does not mean EOL. If
> there is a distro which want to fix it then they can do it in our or in
> their VCS. The simple question today is, if you want to focus on 0.40
> development who supports 0.22? We need real commitments here.
Right - who supports OpenSync 0.22? Who develops OpenSync trunk?
>
> Additionally 0.22 worked in the past because the old mobile software
> tolerates a lot of problems. The new (Nokia) devices are much more
> strict in terms of the SyncML specification.
Those old mobiles still work with 0.22 today - forcing them to upgrade to 0.3x
will break things for them for sure.
>
> > We're a completely understaffed. I don't want to waste time discussing
> > this which i could use making 0.40 ready. So please respect my ignorant
> > decision for now and bear with me some more weeks to get 0.40 out.
> > Thanks!
>
> Stop. This is an unacceptable statement. Nobody has the right to stop a
> discussion by its authority. If somebody has no time to discuss then
> this one is not interested in the discussions background which means the
> opinion does not matter. So the important point is, if you have no time
> for discussing it because of your work on 0.40, then the 0.22 support is
> not your thing which means the others can discuss and decide the issue
> without you.
Ok - then i revoke this "decision" thing - at least in my personal opinion
things worked out quite well the last year - expect that 0.40 is not released
yet.
>
> Such a statement like the above is dictator style and can only cause
> frustration and aggressions. No single developer has the right to make
> decisions on its own in case of a "conflict" and denying an open
> discussion (especially if there are different opinions by other
> developers or supporters in this case).
>
> Again aborting a discussion is against the rules of open development. We
> have definitely no ruling authority. This is a question of netiquette.
>
> So back to the discussion is the only acceptable way. All developers and
> users wait for a stable release/API. You are not the only one ;)
Right - all wait for a stable release/API - but how many really actively
contribute to OpenSync API development?
Quite frankly, in my opinion only those how really heavily contribute to
OpenSync with time to this project should "judge"/decided what we want to see
as "supported" and what not.
What benefit do you see if we announce in the wild that we don't support 0.22
and we don't support 0.3x? I guess this will just motivate people fork
OpenSync or start a new project ...
And letting distros package up 0.3x isn't a good idea either.
>
> > 0.22 is great - since there a lot of people out which managed somehow to
> > get things working. Usually those people which have working setup without
> > lot of pain don't make big noise about something working - it's only the
> > "few" which have troubles ;)
>
> Simply all new Nokia S40 devices does not work. The most S60 devices
> should not work too. So a "few" is really relative ;)
I don't agree here - there are many people using not the SyncML plugin at all.
Usually people having a working 0.22 don't communicate actively with us -
since they don't have problems. I know really a lot people using 0.22 on their
daily basis - i'm not kidding here - declaring EOS just brings more discussion
and so on...
I agree that their is not much support at all in 0.22 - and my priority is on
0.40. But i prefer to keep current setups with "old" mobiles working instead
of breaking those setups in favor of "hardware enablement".
So please - let me know if their is any benefit declaring 0.22 for dead?
I see mostly disadvantages.
And yes - i did some "support" for 0.22. Few month ago i helped Michael Banck
with some Debian Bugreport with 0.22 and kdepim-sync. There was no code fix
but a valid workaround. But again - this is not a high priority thing - i
don't spent hours on that - and to be honest currently i'm seeing more
recently reported 0.3x bugreports then 0.22.
And I guess Distros do bugfixing of 0.22 anyway on their own - they can't
fully rely on upstream 24x7.
Yes, i want to see fedora downgrading to 0.22 - since i can't guarantee when
0.40 is ready. So please let them downgrade.
Best Regards,
Daniel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are
powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and
easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development
software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging.
Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com
_______________________________________________
Opensync-devel mailing list
Opensync-devel@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensync-devel
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